Yahoo and ISPs support Verizon against RIAA

Yahoo and group of American ISPs filed an amicus brief to support Verizon in its court case against RIAA. In this case, RIAA has taken Verizon to court in order to ask court to force Verizon to hand out customer details of one of its customers.

RIAA says that one of Verizon's customers has distributed copyrighted MP3s through various P2P networks and now wants Verizon to reveal this customer's name and contact details.

Verizon has said that it supports RIAA's and other copyright owners' rights to take an individual -- a 'John Doe' case -- to court and make court to reveal the identity of the customer. But Verizon opposes the fact that RIAA wants to have full access to its customer details based on their allegations, not on court orders.

"What the RIAA is really seeking, at the end of the day, is to shift the burden of copyright enforcement from its own members--who apparently would prefer not to alienate potential customers by suing them outright--to an ISP that does nothing more than provide an Internet connection to the customer," the brief says.

Written by: Petteri Pyyny @ 11 Sep 2002 15:15

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10 comments

A_Klingon

Verizon is right. Let the RIAA do it's *own* dirty work. Also, Yahoo and (the other) ISPs all have a vested interest in seeing that Verizon wins. If it doesn't, based on the RIAA's potential win against it, they could be next.

-- Me --

11.9.2002 22:45 #1

Dela

Doesn't the RIAA's demands violate basic privacy rights????

12.9.2002 08:33 #2

micah

RIAA and I have a long history. We go way back. I used to run servers ('93-98) that hosted certain sound/audio software on a backup basis. I was repeatedly threatened to be sued by them. Okay, so I took down the copyrighted software. That wasn't good enough. I finally figured out after my services were yanked by a fearful ISP that they were complaining about software MANUALS that were left on my servers. I wrote these manuals and they contained no copyrighted information. They got theirs and I got mine in small claims. RIAA can kiss my ass.

If at first you don't succeed, read the #%@!*% guides!

13.9.2002 01:03 #3

A_Klingon

Good for you, micah! Not to worry, the RIAA is doing some pretty heavy-duty ass-kissing itself these days, although they would have you believe otherwise. They are also, through systematic web-exposure, site-hacks and cracks, and private third-party news coverage, slowly being exposed for the creeps they are.

(Small claims?) - I hope you got something worthwhile out of it. I didn't think the RIAA did things in a smallish (small claims) kind of way, preferring to invoke, if they can, the mighty fear of GOD into the heart(s) of anyone who would dare to cross their path.

The RIAA is on a one-way-only flight to oblivion these days anyway, .... "NO REFUNDS" ... and I think they know it too. Just a matter of time. Like mp3 files, they are very heavily "entrenched" in the overall global scheme of things, but like ogg vorbis, people (artists and music lovers alike) are beginning to see that there *are* alternatives.

For what it's worth, over the past couple of hours I have been sharing some simply *dandy* tunes over a particular peer-to-peer network (no names mentioned, but I'm using it right now as we speak) - let the RIAA figure out who it is on their own.

-- Mike --

13.9.2002 06:25 #4

3pm

The RIAA seems bent on simply getting its pound of flesh out of a few individuals. Targeting individual ISP's is just killing the messenger and is likely illegal. Knocking out an individual p2p network didn't stop several others from popping up, and going after an individual user isn't going to stop the tens of millions of other users.

If the recording industry wants to stop wholesale file sharing, it will have to come up with a better and more reasonable tactic that doesn't hurt just a few individuals (like, oh, maybe LISTENING TO CONSUMERS INSTEAD OF BRINGING DOWN A SLEDGE HAMMER ON THEM!!!).

Excuse me now while I go download some more tunes...

13.9.2002 07:11 #5

micah

Just to clarify... It wasn't RIAA that was taken to court, it was the ISP that deleted my account and broke the contract illegally.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Price of hosting my server: $280/month
Price of court: $780
Price of claims awarded: [undisclosed]
Look on ISP's Accnt Manager's face when I won settlement: PRICELESS

If at first you don't succeed, read the #%@!*% guides!

13.9.2002 11:14 #6

A_Klingon

The stoopid, very very stoopid RIAA can win big, and so can we, IF THEY SMARTEN UP !!!

a) Provide all available titles that they have. (No restrictions)

b) Be *reasonable* in their asking price. There are no traditional manufacturing processes necessary. (discs, tapes) No distribution/warehousing costs.

c) Use a universally-accepted, prevailent, current file-format (.mp3 or .ogg or ...), NOT some ### restrictive format.

They'd make a killing. Think of all the back catalogue material they have at their disposal, much of it out of print, that would bring in new revenues. They could sit on their butts, and let downloaders line their pockets.

As far as any argument goes about using standard, unprotected .mp3 or .ogg files -- WELL -- an ordinary music cd can be copied indefinately and shared *everywhere* TOO, right? Yet, I'm *positive* the RIAA would love to see increased music cd sales!

Sell the people what they want to hear & buy, at reasonable cost. Many would buy on impulse that which they would not normally buy, if they had to get into their cars and drive down to the nearest record shop to get it. Especially hard-to-find items that they would otherwise normally have to place on order (and wait....wait.....wait...), and that's assuming, IF the title was still in print.

And if the RIAA ever *does* come to it's senses (don't hold your breath), then here's a message for them:

DON'T USE 128 kbps CBR .MP3 ! That's NOT good enough! If I pay for an album download, I want to be able to listen to it in *comfort* for some time to come, and not have to cringe at audible artefacts.

(Screw WMA, and I *do* mean it). I don't care HOW good anyone thinks it sounds at low bitrates -- we're not talking about low-bitrate streaming here, we're talking about high quality reproduction of high quality music that will be downloaded by people who are paying for it and will want to *keep* it -- , and you *know* what I think about WMA's digital right's management.

The RIAA will never-never-never eliminate all the peer-to-peer systems, that much should be more and more obvious to them every day. If they want to *beat* the p-to-p's, then they need to offer the public something better sounding, more reliable (no crummy, broken, stuttering, inferior rips), and just as varied in content as that provided by the p-to-p's.

(I could go on and on about this forever), sorry, but that's how I see it.

You snooze, you lose, RIAA.

--Me--

14.9.2002 12:50 #7

3pm

micah: I haven't laughed out loud like that for a long time. You wouldn't have a picture of the account manager's face to share with us, would you?

Klingon: That struck me as a reasonable, well-thought out suggestion. The recording industry deserves SOME return on its investment without having to gouge us. Maybe if you sent your solution to the RIAA (with toned down language, just so they don't reflexively reach for their weapons) they would see the light of day and...Naw, never mind.

17.9.2002 22:15 #8

A_Klingon

3pm >> ...they would see the light of day and ... Naw, never mind.

<heh-heh> *Exactly*, 3pm, you've got it. :)

They know what they have to do; they've known it for a long time -- they just don't want to do it.

Write to them? I can't. Whenever, on those rare occassions when I visit their site (just to see if anyone new has recently hacked it), this terrible odor eminates from my desktop speakers. Even turning the volume down doesn't help much, there's still this mouldy, old, funky odor coming out at me.

Phew !!!! [holding nose]

-- Mike --

18.9.2002 07:34 #9

vudoo

First Verision/Yahoo, then all of the ISP’s might be brought down if the RIAA gets their way. I think this is even a bigger reason that the RIAA needs to be shut down. It is as clear as death and taxes that the RIAA is just a dictatorship.
I remember long ago watching Styx caught in the act where Johnathan Chance was put in prison for playing Rock N Roll music in public. Him and all of his followers were thrown in prison for musical immorality. Dr. Righteous was the dictator.
The RIAA is trying to do some of the same thing when it comes to our enjoyment. And what is really scary is that politicians are getting paid by the RIAA to support their views upon the rest of the world no matter what the cost.
I hate to think that in todays society that we are supposed to set our lives aside for a group of billionaires that think that money can buy intellect. It is just plain rotten no matter how you try and serve it.
Folks I want to remind you that sitting back and wishing for things to get better will not make it happen. Because I see everyday that we are losing ground against the RIAA and other organizations that want to rid P2P from the world. Even though a number of artists have said time and time again that P2P is a very important part to getting exposure. So then why are we all reading about the RIAA’s fight against P2P? There has got to be a even bigger part to this picture that we’ve not taken a look at.
It is clear that the current technology for artists to promote their own music (without the middleman) is a very scary thought to most record producers because their ass is on the line. So I believe that they come to the RIAA for help in exterminating anything that could interfere with their organization. The RIAA then in turn comes up with all of these scenarios to display to the court for pity. And if they don’t get enough pity, they will pay for a pity party. Now it is time to do the homework RIAA. Lets see you go to every record store and do a complete survey with a third party verifier so we know you aren’t doctoring up the records like you’ve been so tactically doing. And do it before your next court meeting against KazaA, and other P2P sites. Even if the RIAA can pay enough money to sut down KazaA, they’ll never shut down the underground mainstream. As soon as one goes down, Another goes up. And Gnutilla will always live forever because there is no central server. Even of the software is Illegal, people will get it from the gnutilla network itself. All the RIAA IS DOING is making the public mad and no CD’s will be bought.
Voodoohippi
(Defender of Free cyberspace).

19.9.2002 12:32 #10

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