AfterDawn: News

DVDFab development stopped due to German version of EUCD

• Previous article

• Movie studios sue Chinese pirates

• Next article

• Appeals court speeds up the process for P2P trial

• 19 comments

• A_Klingon

  The EUCD is huge, and carries a lot of clout, but it is not global in it's jurisdiction.
  
  There will always be tools to allow the backing up of, for example, cds and dvds.
  
  Cut yourself a little insurance though, just for peace of mind: If you have any favourite backing-up tools that can work-around macrovision, rc (region coding), rce (advanced region coding), UOPS (user restrictions), and/or anything else, <you know the software I'm talking about>, find and download the most recent version(s) you can and hang on to 'em.
  
  Backing up DVDs is a worldwide phenomena (hobby/practice) now, that ain't goin' away any time soon, EUCD or no EUCD.
  
  -- My .02 Eurodollar. --

  19.7.2003 09:39 #1

• Oriphus

  Is this DVDFab development stopped globally? If someone wants to email me a link for the program i will list it on http:.//www.chrismccann.co.uk and it will stay there. PM me for the email address.
  
  Cheers
  Chris
  
  
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  19.7.2003 18:56 #2

• A_Klingon

  I guess, that rather than risk future litigation, the author has decided to soon stop developing (updating) and distributing it. If he no longer makes it, it will be, in effect, 'stopped globally' as you say.
  
  Even though I myself haven't tried the program out (which does look kinda spiffy on the author's website), -- I just downloaded and archived DVDFab to a cd-rw, just to spite the EUCD.
  
  (Gotta fight back any way you can).
  

  20.7.2003 00:26 #3

• dRD

  The biggest problem really is that this kind of laws push DVD ripping to "underground", i.e. sites such as AfterDawn.com and many other large-scale sites dedicated on offering backup tools can't continue offering these tools -- and the fact is that most of the main sites are located or maintained from Europe (none American major DVD ripping sites afaik, mostly due DMCA), which means that P2P networks and minor "live-for-amonth-and-then-gone" websites with no constant updates will be the only ones surviving.
  
  Not to even mention that DVD Decrypter, DVDFab, DVD Shrink, cladDVD and many other fabulous tools are developed by Europeans and this development will now stop. Americans have their own DMCA, which is almost as evil as EUCD is in these terms, so only option are non-EU (to correct this, non-EEA countries, Norway, etc have to implement this as well -- as well as all countries planning to join EU next year) European countries, Asian countries, African countries, South and Central American countries, Australia, NZ, etc.
  

  Petteri Pyyny
  Webmaster
  http://AfterDawn.com/
  
  Please read our guides before posting questions! Guides are available here:
  http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/

  20.7.2003 03:35 #4

• Oriphus

  Would i be right in thinking that afterdawn doesnt fall under any American or British duristiction when it comes to the laws of DVD Back up, etc...
  
  So no matter what the americans and british decide, the finnish, Where i think afterdawn is hosted??, they mainly decide the future of afterdawn. If they go against the back up of DVD's i suppose you could relocate somewhere else. The internet is a tough one to police considering that the www's are world wide and so do not fall under one countries law.
  
  Let me know for curiosity ;-)
  
  Chris
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  20.7.2003 11:30 #5

• A_Klingon

  Somehow, I just can't bring myself to believe that the www-at-large has seen the end of dvd rippers, you know? It just isn't going to happen, although I can see the concerns people have.
  
  Flat-out outlawing rippers would indeed have an unfortunate effect on websites like this one, if they fell under the evil jurisdiction of EUCD. (If one can't rip, it kinda makes the balance of online tutorials and articles rather redundant).
  
  Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's going to come to that. We (the www) are too smart. (Really). Collectively, we'll work around it in whatever ay we have to. Rippers ("css circumventors", call 'em whatever you want) are WAY too entrenched now. The EUCD is too late.
  
  -- Optimistic Klingon --
  

  20.7.2003 14:14 #6

• dRD

  EUCD outlaws distributing them, so at least from our point of view, once the Finnish legislation includes EUCD clauses -- as it will within couple of months, although Electronic Frontier Finland is trying to lobby to make as many loophooles to it as possible -- aD will remove all tools that allow circumvention of copyprotection schemes. That's just reality, we don't have resources to fight against the big guys.
  

  Petteri Pyyny
  Webmaster
  http://AfterDawn.com/
  
  Please read our guides before posting questions! Guides are available here:
  http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/

  20.7.2003 16:36 #7

• Oriphus

  Do these tools include DVD Shrink, etc...? Cant aD relocate to prevent this from happening? If aD removes all their de-CSS tools, then does that mean no more legal updates for these programs. Also, dRD, does this affect my http://www.chrismccann.co.uk ?
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  20.7.2003 17:32 #8

• A_Klingon

  So..... will this affect current Articles and Tutorials already written? If you are prevented from distributing them, or even from providing links thereto, will you also be barred from even discussing them?
  
  Perhaps the EUCD Enforcers will attempt to censor these websites? Even if I've never backed-up a DVD in my life, will I be prohibited from discussing 'CSS'? How is the EUCD going to police the world? If a/D falls under their Iron Fist, will they (you) be forced to take the articles offline?
  
  I'm not saying the situation doesn't have potential implications, but I am suggesting there may be a little undue paranoia in all this. For the moment, since I live in Canada, I could tell the EUCD to kiss my a--; but if by doing so it could hurt this site, then SH--, we are heading for the grey world Orsen Welles described! Make room for Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World".
  
  Sorry.....but a/D has always been a website of free thought and non-censorship. If we can't at least discuss what's happening in the world without fear that we might inadvertantly mention something the EUCD could conceivably consider 'Taboo', then we're in trouble.
  
  I know I don't run a website, but the EUCD will not be telling me what I can or cannot say anytime soon.
  
  -- Mike --
  

  20.7.2003 21:12 #9

• dRD

  The previous draft of Finnish implementation of EUCD -- that didn't get through as it was delayed and then new parliament was elected (new government can't use previous government's drafts legally) -- allowed discussing about ripping and providing tutorials on using them.
  
  So, if that stays pretty much the same, all DeCSS-type tools need to be removed, but instructions on how to use them are perfectly legal to publish and discuss about. And in theory -- depends on the upcoming law again -- we could offer links to sites that offer such tools (but can't link to tools themselves directly).
  
  And Chris: Same will apply to you as well, as you're a Brit and EUCD will kick in here (I live in London still) within next couple of months as well. But the draft for British version looked more draconian than the Finnish version and might as well make it illegal to provide tutorials.
  
  Transferring a company -- aD is a company -- to outside EU is one option, but has its own problems (taxing, etc). But we keep all of our options open until we know what shape the new law in Finland will be.
  

  Petteri Pyyny
  Webmaster
  http://AfterDawn.com/
  
  Please read our guides before posting questions! Guides are available here:
  http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/

  21.7.2003 03:15 #10

• Oriphus

  The future is dark, the future is EUCD. (an implementation of the orange AD lol)
  
  dRD - since my website would be a .co.uk, does this mean it is a UK website. Would you update us sometime whenever these laws come in to place? Then, could i relocate the website to another country like .tv or somewhere that the law wont be the same?
  
  Thanks
  Chris
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  21.7.2003 03:57 #11

• dRD

  No, you would have to transfer YOUR legal responsibility outisde your country as well -- normally this is done by setting up an off-shore company.
  

  Petteri Pyyny
  Webmaster
  http://AfterDawn.com/
  
  Please read our guides before posting questions! Guides are available here:
  http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/

  21.7.2003 04:03 #12

• Oriphus

  Ah right. DAMN those EUCD people. :-(
  
  Cheers Boss,
  Chris
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  21.7.2003 04:31 #13

• A_Klingon

  A couple of years ago, when I was just a Newbie Klingon, weren't we discussing a sheet of plate steel sitting on top of four concrete pillars, somewhere out in the Atlantic Ocean?
  
  (I think it was off the coast of England - at least I think it was originally made by the English).
  
  A bunch of heavily-armed people living on this chunk of terra-firma called themselves a "country", developed an official coat-of-arms, and set up an extensive web-based network and series of satellite internet links which I now believe carry one hell of a lot of international business, free from most of the global restrictions that police the rest of the world.
  
  Oh, it probably costs $1000-per-hour to use their services, but since they are their own government and make their own laws, wouldn't it be neat if a/D operated on their bandwidth???? (Nah......)
  
  Well, Finnish legislation pending, if you are still allowed to link to places where certain <***censored***>-type of programs reside, and as a result, are still permitted to run certain <***censored***>-type tutorials, then I guess it's 'ok'.
  
  Isn't it fun Petteri, having governments tell you what you can and cannot say on your own website? YUM !!!!! :=(
  

  21.7.2003 07:09 #14

• dRD

  Klingy: HavenCo aka Sealand is still very much an option for hosting the tools, but the problem is with the company that needs to be put off-shore as well. Some decent little Pacific ocean country with flexible taxation might be a viable option..
  

  Petteri Pyyny
  Webmaster
  http://AfterDawn.com/
  
  Please read our guides before posting questions! Guides are available here:
  http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/

  21.7.2003 07:19 #15

• Oriphus

  www.afterdawn.tv is available - locate there. i believe it is really warm. Ill come work (um...sunbathe) for you if ya want.
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  21.7.2003 09:01 #16

• dRD

  Heh, the domain itself is not the issue, but the actual company location. Vanuatu sounds good, Kazaa has previous example that they have rather good company laws (no info on company owners to anyone else, etc) there ;-)
  

  Petteri Pyyny
  Webmaster
  http://AfterDawn.com/
  
  Please read our guides before posting questions! Guides are available here:
  http://www.afterdawn.com/articles/

  21.7.2003 09:05 #17

• A_Klingon

  Actually, most of this stuff is WAY over my head. EUCD, tax laws, hosting.....Ahhrgghhhhh!!...... Headaches Supreme. I hope to god you can work it all out dRD. (You too Chris).
  
  Even when I was a lowly paid taxi-cab driver for four years, the tax forms and associated paperwork I had to fill out were (for me) so convoluted and complex, I had to pay someone else to do it for me. (And I'm the kind of guy who had filled out his own tax forms for the last twenty years!) So I can't even begin to imagine actually running and owning a company at the same time, let alone figuring out how to locate it offshore somewhere.
  
  Scary Stuff!
  
  Good luck to you both!
  

  21.7.2003 20:39 #18

• Oriphus

  Cheers Kilingy, the good luck you sent me, im sending it on to dRD in the hope that the combined good luck enables him to have superhuman powers and take on the EUCD and win. If not, i know a few....um.....cleaners...(cough) that are in need of a....um....(cough)...cleaning job. Anyone got an....um...dirty house?? (Cough, Cough)
  
  Chris
  

  Im gonna find you, and im coming to get YOU!
  
  

  22.7.2003 00:50 #19