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Blu-Ray, EVD, AOD/HD-DVD... now FVD

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• 21 comments

• A_Klingon

  The world is going nutz. Everybody wants a piece of the pie. WMV9 and WMA9? Thanx, but no thnx. It will be riddled with so much DRM code you'll be lucky to find any content beneath it, and we'll need 17 Jon Johansens' <sp> to crack the damn thing. (I wouldn't waste my time). Many moons ago, Bill Gates promised that he would one day "make the Asians pay", but I daresay it won't be with FVD.
  
  Stick with what you've got. Stay with what works. People will only tolerate so many format wars. However, if I can purchase a $5 (five dollar) FVD player, I'll consider it. :-)

  6.1.2004 20:27 #1

• Ghostdog

  The current format war didn´t turn out as bad as many were expecting. Most brand-name recorders support both standards. Excelent. Though it kind of makes having two standards pointless.
  
  But the next-gen DVD´s, my DVD writer. 4 competitors already! EVD and FVD are perhaps mainly targeted at the asian market - if they manage to gain a foothold in europe and the US though, we´re in for a pretty big brawl.
  
  You might think and hope it will be image quality and storage space that decides the winner. Corporate affiliation, I think, is more important. Sadly.
  
  Can´t wait.

  7.1.2004 05:12 #2

• tommays

  and what about the HD-VHS RECORDER that has started showing up in us stores back to tape again ??? there already down to less than 800 us and can put hours of hd video on a 14 dollar tape
  
  tommays

  7.1.2004 07:47 #3

• pcshateme

  IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT. i believe in updating and "getting with the times" but i can honestly say that, i and the rest of america wont buy the newest format of dvd every time it comes out. People are just staarting to like dvds, now almost 2/3 or america owns a dvd player, consumers, retailers, and movie rental stores, are not going to put up with more and more formats! I dont want to shop for DVDs and rent movies like i do pc games- (meaning i have to check system requirements) LOOK THE DUAL LAYER DVD WORKS FINE- I ALONG WITH ALOT HAVE PEOPLE HAVE JUST BOUGHT A DVD PLAYER - I AM NOT GOING TO BUY ANOTHER FORMAT EVERYTIME ONE COMES OUT!!!- other wise it will be completely messed up. I love dvds more than tape, but why cant we leave dvd as it is - just pop it in and hit play like we did with VHS!- i can see them coming out with different format discs.... AS LONG AS OUR PLAYERS CAN READ THEM!!!

  7.1.2004 15:58 #4

• djscoop

  because if we leave dvd as it is, no new technology will be invented. That's like people in the 80s saying "keep 8 tracks forever man!" while its frustrating to consumers that new formats are created, it will take years possible decades for the new formats to conquer the market. Take our current dvd for example. It debuted a decade ago, and people STILL use and rent VHS. just recently has the market shifted mainly to dvds. So don't think that in the next few years you will have to upgrade. With dvd having as much momentum as it has now, It will be a while before a superior format succeeds it. But for me personally, I am hoping for blu-ray technology or nano-disc technology to be the new thing. Screw Bill Gates and this FVD format.

  8.1.2004 13:59 #5

• GrayArea

  I'd like to say that the development of these formats is a way for the industry to bring more value and functionality to the consumer, but I can't. It's simply about extracting the maximum amount of dollars from our pockets. Like in this story, it's pretty obvious when they adopt WMV & WMA that the best interests of the consumer are pretty low on the list. All the media companys really want is a ticket taker at your living room door so EVERY TIME you turn on that TV or stereo, they get paid. Heck, they'd like a device in the "net enabled" (read: disabled if DRM terms are not met) DVD player that counts how many eyeballs are in the room so they can charge not only per view, but per viewer. Is that so much to ask?

  8.1.2004 14:38 #6

• GrayArea

  djscoop
  
  Nobody ever said "keep 8 tracks forever man!", EVER.
  
  They sucked when they were brand new. They would have never made it at all except for the fact that record players didn't work very good in the car...

  8.1.2004 14:46 #7

• pcshateme

  no i understand- but the thing is that if they come out with new formats, they should make them compatible with standard players- im not one of the 8 tracks forever people.

  8.1.2004 15:45 #8

• A_Klingon

  I'm working diligently on my own new optical disc format, which will incorporate all my newest innovations, in particular, the new ADEPT <A>fter <Dawn> <E>nhanced <P>referred <T>echnology recording system.
  
  The system will use a pink laser and record on 3" mini-discs, holding approx 85 gigs each. They will burn at 88x speed. The discs are capable of storing 24 hours of High-Resolution Three Dimensional Video with a maximum of 16 soundtracks each holding 5.1 channels of hi-res, uncompressed 192/24 audio.
  
  The blank discs are expected to debut at about .99c each street price. They will contain NO macrovision, NO DRM, NO region coding, NO watermarking, NO user restrictions, NO FBI warnings, NO Disney trailers, will record from any video and audio source you have on hand, can be erased in 30 seconds or less, and I encourage you to share your discs with all your friends.
  
  My soon-to-be-patented 'Easy-Dupe' dual-drawer burners will be available soon, allowing easy backups in about 1 minute. No additional software required. Compatible input sources include DVD, EVP, FVD, Blu-Ray, VHS, Hi-Def, 3-D Hi-Def, 6-channel audio; full compliment of digital and analogue in/outs provided.
  
  Computer burners and standalone units are expected to street price around $50 bucks each. I will keep you posted.

  8.1.2004 21:18 #9

• Jaybo

  Klingy,
  
  I do like the format you will be using, but find it only compatible in a small part of the world. Two drawer burner? Now that is an idea! Is that for those with soiled drawers? Could that be for those who want to reheat their coffee in one drawer, while using the other to burn a disc? All of this techno stuff will be confusing, any chance of suppling a manual?
  
  {:o)

  12.1.2004 09:58 #10

• A_Klingon

  JAYBO !!! :-) :-) :-)
  
  *Great* to see you making the rounds! (I just answered yer email a coupla minutes ago).
  
  Welcome 'back' to the real A/D !
  
  'Soiled' drawers will not be a problem because of the new advanced ADEPT error correction algorhythms I have developed. Soiled drawers will get automatically 'sanitized' on the fly.
  
  I will consider allowing the Hollywood motion-picture indistry a limited-use license for an (as yet) undisclosed fee, 50% of which will be payable directly to A/D. If they violate any of the ADEPT licensing restrictions (sneaking in macrovision, copy-protection of any sort, any manner of DRM, etc.) I will immediately revoke their license and have 321 Studios sue their fat asses off for format violation.
  
  When I go into full production, I will be making 1000 special-edition units available to A/D staff for free distribution to loyal members. In return, they have agreed to provide full online tutorials and will be hosting freely-downloadable upgrades as they become available, in their software section. You will always see new software updates and revisions here first!
  
  A/D will also be carrying a full selection of pre-recorded movie titles, (available for a 25% discount to all registered members), in their on-line store. Each title will come with two, complimentary blanks, for sharing these titles with your friends and relatives.
  
  We will also be hosting 'Talent' contests. Amateur film-makers will be encouraged to submit their productions, and will be voted upon by the membership. Weekly drawings will be held. Prizes will be awarded. Contracts may be offered. All are encouraged to participate.
  
  Wheeeee ! :)

  13.1.2004 03:20 #11

• Jaybo

  Klingy!! :-)
  
  Yeah, just makin the rounds, and I did answer ye email. I had to come back to the (old) New stomping grounds.
  
  I am placing me order in for two of those new fangled drives. I can't wait to get it, what,, about 6 months away yet? Do I get free upgrades for life on the firmware, with no bugs added, or do I need to add me own?
  
  Soiled drawers sanitized on the fly. Homemakers of the world will appreciate that feature.
  
  Just a couple of questions, How hot does the external case get, when the 2nd drawer is in use? I mean I would like two eggs over easy, 3 slices of bacon, with an order for toast. I mean if my time is to be utilized, why not cook breakfast, while burning a disc.
  
  2nd question, Need any help marketing these babys?
  
  Oh, BTW, I will be submitting my application, with the proper credentials for being a judge in these contests. Thank you in advanced for this consideration.
  
  On the serious side, it definitely seems no one can agree, what laser, or what format is going to be the standard. Right now -R media is controlling the market at 60% of the blank media sold. The ultimate decision in these controlling wars is eventually the consumer.
  
  
  Regards,

  13.1.2004 04:47 #12

• A_Klingon

  <heh-heh>....Good questions, all. I'll have to think of something.... (but no, no, the cases never get hot. They're liquid-cooled).
  
  I think blu-laser will eventually make terrific inroads. Prior to widespread blu-ray use, I think the new dual-layer discs (which are supposedly completely compatible with current standalone DVD players) will repace today's DVD-5 4.36 single-layer, as soon as the cost becomes reasonable to the end user.
  
  The dual-layer discs are going to have a profound effect on today's backup software (all companies, all products, especially transcoding programs), because transcoding will no longer be necessary. Much of today's software will become obsolete. Straight one-to-one dupes will be as easy as backing up a music cd is today. (I'll still want _some_ software though, to edit out the mind-numbing grunge that Hollywood loves to put on their discs.)
  
  'Course by then, Hollywood will be sooking like crazy over the dual-disc format and be suing everyone within a 10,000 mile radius, while introducing more "revolutionary" (DRM-ridden) replacement formats to protect their 'intellectual property' (i.e. stoopid movies) from all us miserable, theiving, criminal Pirates.
  
  (At least that's what my crystal ball says.) Remember, you heard it here first!

  13.1.2004 19:14 #13

• tort

  Well, I didn't see anyone post about this, but you ONLY need to BUY ONE new PLAYER/RECORDER.
  
  PHILIPS introduced earlier this year, their NEW LED, it will support read/write of ALL Red Laser and Blue Laser media.
  
  Therefore, if these manufacturers would just put the Philips LED in their NEW generation player/recorder, we will have DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray all in the same player/recorder.
  
  Myself, when they come out, I'm buying the new Philips units, unless the other manufacturers start using this new LED from Philips.
  
  This brings back the memories... Beta, VHS, U-Matic, V-cord, VCII... Then came SuperBeta and SuperVHS, then ED Beta and Digital VHS, with Digital VHS being the ONLY High Definition Recorder/Player right now.
  
  As to Sony's Blu-Ray... Sony/Pioneer began the LASER technology the same time the Beta/VHS War was going, Umatic, V-Cord, etc., died early in the battle, the Laserdisc was born. Out of that came CD, then DVD...
  
  I might wait and buy the new Pioneer Laserdisc/CD/DVD Player if the new ones support the Philips LED and provide HD-DVD and Blu-Ray support.
  
  Sorry, I have to keep my Laserdiscs, because in the long run, My Star Wars Trilogy THX Laserdiscs are the ORIGINAL Theatrical Releases, not the RUINED Special Edition that are on DVD.

  6.11.2004 20:49 #14

• djscoop

  I feel you on the star wars trilogy. the re-makes are horrible...my favorite episode of south park is when they go after lucas about that. interesting about the new led burner though...have a link for it?

  6.11.2004 22:17 #15

• cuteperv

  In this article
  FVD's popularity might rise in China? (12 January 2005)
  FVD is explained as forward versatile disc. But now in this article, it is written as Finalized Versatile Disc. Which 1 is correcT?

  15.1.2005 04:47 #16

• tort

  Here's a link to the Philips new Drive that uses there Multiple Laser LED:
  
  http://www.opticalstorage.philips.com/about/news/section-13542/article-14836.html

  20.1.2005 16:27 #17

• ScubaBud

  DVD wars, from an online newsletter dated 2-4-2005:
  
  There's also another important—if less visible—technology on tap: the next wave of high-definition DVD players.
  
  DVDs stormed past VHS tapes as the format of choice because they have a significant advantage over analog VHS in crispness, clarity, detail and sound. Plus, they're easier to navigate ("jump to" menus) and offer tons of extra scenes and audio tracks that are simply impossible within analog formats.
  
  But now—just as VHS and Beta squared off when video tapes were introduced—there are two new DVD formats competing to conquer the market, and each has attracted the attention (and early allegiance) of major studios as they vie for future dominance.
  
  The key to the evolution of DVD? Blue lasers, which can pick up more detail than the red lasers used in traditional DVD and CD technology. Therefore, the new disc formats—listed below—can accommodate more (and more detailed) information, which makes HD movies, HD audio and HD recording possible and offers a dramatic improvement over existing progressive-scan DVD players. So what's the difference between the two?
  
  Blu-ray
  
  For sheer storage, it's tough to beat the new Blu-ray format. The capability to store up to 50GB of data (compared to the 4.7GB that current DVDs can accommodate) offers a tremendous advantage within the world of high-definition home theater, where more space translates into better images and sound.
  
  Blu-ray has also garnered the support of Buena Vista Home Entertainment, which means that video libraries from Disney, Touchstone, Miramax and others will be available in that format. Keep in mind that Disney's agreement is nonexclusive, which means they're still free to distribute movies other formats. Sony, Dell and HP have also committed significant resources to developing Blu-ray-compatible devices (including the much-anticipated Playstation® 3) that should hit shelves within the next year.
  
  HD-DVD
  
  Just like Blu-ray technology, HD-DVD offers more (but not quite as much) storage space than traditional DVDs—typically around 30GB. However, the compression software is also more efficient, making this storage gap less significant.
  
  And while the support of Hollywood studios and distributors generates big publicity—and with Warner, New Line, HBO, Paramount and Universal in the fold, HD-DVD has plenty—it's important to remember that PC manufacturers are crucial players here, too. Toshiba is one of the major promoters of HD-DVD, meaning that's the technology you'll likely find in their future products. Tech powerhouse Microsoft is also rumored to be favoring HD-DVD, so the battle is far from over.
  
  The verdict
  
  Still inconclusive. Blu-ray offers more storage, but HD-DVD may ultimately rule the PC market. Studios are split. So what does all this mean? There's a long way to go and one format may win out before you have to choose. Regardless, the ability to record and play back high-definition programming is poised to change the face of home theater.
  
  I've removed the bottome portion that was more sales related to the store offering this article.
  

  
  ___ScubaBud___
  P4 3.4 HT @ 3.74 Idle 33c 1Gig PC3200
  Twin 160 H-D's Asus MB P4P800 Deluxe
  Asus DRW-1604P Burner GeForce5700

  4.2.2005 09:45 #18

• tort

  Whoever jumped the gun on that one sounds like the same one who ruled VHS is better than Beta.
  
  HD DVD will be the winner in the PC platform?
  
  EXCUSE ME?
  
  SONY has demonstrated an 8 layer Blu-Ray disc that holds 200GB of data.
  
  I can back up my 200GB Hard Drive on one 8 layer Blu-Ray Disc. 30GB on an HD DVD would take 7 discs...
  
  I predict SONY Blu-Ray will be the PC winner.
  
  SONY owns 4 Motion Picture Studios, they are all going Blu-Ray. The new PS/3 will be Blu-Ray.
  
  HD-DVDs only advantage is that it costs about the same as DVD.
  
  Adult manufacturers have already released HD-DVD titles. But, show me one player that can PLAY those HD DVD titles.
  
  When enough Blu-Ray discs are being made, the prices will drop.
  
  HP has already shown their Lightscribe Labeling system on their next generation Blu-Ray Recorders.
  
  Sony has over half the DVD Recorders going Blu-Ray for the PC market.
  
  I don't know who this person is, but let me explain a few things. Beta is Better than VHS, 250 lines of resolution versus 240. ED Beta is better than SVHS, 750 lines of resolution versus 400 lines of resolution, and that far exceeds DVDs 500 lines of resolution as well.
  
  Almost every TV station uses Betacam SP, 700 lines of resolution VCRs.
  
  HD-DVD may be more consumer oriented because of the lower cost, but with SONY already committing their 4 studios to release Blu-Ray titles, and the 200GB storage capacity of 8 layer Blu-Ray discs, I will put my money on Blu-Ray winning the PC market, and probably even the consumer market.

  4.2.2005 12:07 #19

• ScubaBud

  The article came from CircuitCity Online news letter after they visited the trade show. When the dust settles and time passes, the consumer will be the one to determine what format they prefer. I agree that the Sony beta vs vhs was better. But the consumer was the one that put a squash to that. As for me, I can't say either way since I have never experienced either. I say let the consumer be the judge and the winner between the two powers will then be decided. :-)
  

  
  ___ScubaBud___
  P4 3.4 HT @ 3.74 Idle 33c 1Gig PC3200
  Twin 160 H-D's Asus MB P4P800 Deluxe
  Asus DRW-1604P Burner GeForce5700

  4.2.2005 12:38 #20

• A_Klingon

  I believe that in the Format-Boxing-Ring, Blu-Ray will punch HD-DVD right in the head, giving it a black (blu?) eye. There is nothing that HD-DVD can do that Blu-Ray can't, and then some. Ding-ding-ding, round over, count-of-ten, yer out!.
  
  Each side (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD) actively promotes its format with a key selling point. One is worthy; one is quite dubious:
  
  HD-DVD's main claim to fame is that it is easier and cheaper for current DVD manufacturing facilities to retool their production lines for the new format.
  
  (Yawn). Big deal. So what? Who cares?
  
  No offense to the would-be HD-DVD media makers out there, BUT unless that cost savings is passed on to the consumer (you and me), -- and there's no guarantee that that will happen -- who gives a sh--? Just because the Handy-Dandy HD-DVD Company will be able to crank out cheaply-made discs doesn't guarantee you and me a better price at retail. SO.....
  
  ...the main advantage I always see touted by the HD-DVD camp is only geared toward the manufacturers, not we lowly consumers.
  
  On the other hand, Blu-Ray promises (and delivers) far-greater storage capacity than HD-DVD, with the potential for even more. That's a direct advantage for _US_ as consumers. The discs may initially cost more, but they offer more, too. Whether for pre-recorded pressed discs (the Hollywood stuff) or blank media for your home PC and/or home-recorder, Blu-Ray kicks ass.
  
  As nice as it may be, our present-day DVD standard is a doomed creature. I know that technology marches inexoribly onward, butI can't think of any single consumer format in the history of home entertainment that has been/will be so short-lived. It has enjoyed a meteoric rise to glory in a very short time (and is currently raking-in more PROFIT than Hollywood, -- unashamed and innocent-faced -- can comfortably count), and that's the _only_ reason it will continue to hang on at all.
  
  As for Blu-Ray itself, the dual industries of content-providers (Hollywood stuff), and Blu-Ray media-makers (the blank disc stuff), their longevity will be determined in direct proportion to how long and how deeply they can stuff their hands into our pockets. Once commecial Blu-Ray movie discs have been 'cracked' -- which is a core reason for our standard DVD's pending demise --, Blu-Ray itself will be on the endangered-species list. By that time though, Hollywood will have gouged-in even more billion$, and we'll probably all be burning our (fully-cracked) content on to 3", 800 GB discs anyway.
  
  Nope....... HD-DVD ain't gonna make it. Blu-Ray is already selling, while HD-DVD is really just a glimmer in it's daddy's eyes.

  5.2.2005 00:36 #21