AfterDawn: News

Dual-layer DVD+Rs available in Q2 2004

Philips Semiconductors and Taiwanese MediaTek expect to start offering dual-layer DVD+R drives in the second quarter of 2004 at earliest.

Philips will be offering a downloadable firmware upgrade to allow system makers to upgrade existing DVD+RW drives to support dual-layer recording. It has not, however, been announced which models can be upgraded by a simple firmware flash.



MediaTek produces chips to equipment manufacturers. Lite-On IT expects that mass production of drives should begin in the second quarter.

Philips and Mitsubishi Kagaku Media announced the dual-layer DVD+R technology in October, 2003.

Source: DigiTimes

Written by: Jari Ketola @ 21 Feb 2004 12:43

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• 38 comments

• pcshateme

  i have a Justlink 2.4x DVD+RW drive- anyone got any idea if there will be a firmware upgrade for it?

  21.2.2004 13:08 #1

• edgex

  Does this mean that we'll be able to burn our backups on one disc with out compression?

  22.2.2004 05:47 #2

• Nephilim

  pcshateme, It's possible but I wouldn't count on it. The drive manufacturers probably won't want to cut into new drives sales by releasing a simple firmware upgrade or they might charge for the new firmware.
  
  edgex, as long as the original is less than 8.5 GB.

  22.2.2004 06:53 #3

• pcshateme

  all you need is ANY DVD or DVD Decryptor to make a full no compression copy- FYI its 7.25 not 8.5GB
  the only catch is that instead of taking time to compress- its going to take 2x as long to burn it.
  
  well they just said that philips is releasing a firmware upgrade- plus the "new" drives arent going to cost more because they are basicaly the old hardware with a different driver- it doensnt cost them more to make DUAL LAYER +RW drives so they shouldnt cost more.

  22.2.2004 08:00 #4

• jimmyjojo

  Just a simple firmware and our drives will burn dual layer? Sounds too good to be true.

  22.2.2004 10:10 #5

• pcshateme

  not realy- its just like older drives how they needed a firmware patch to burn the 4x media (my 2.4x did) so why is it inconcievable that a firmware upgrade can let you burn to DVD-9? it uses the same laser to be burned so nothing should have to be physicaly changed for a drive to burn to DVD-9. also ppl just started buying DVD burners and settop dvd burners for like $300 so why make them pay another $300 for another type of drive? like i said it doesnt cost them more to make DVD-9 burners so selling them separate and shutting out ppl who just got a burner would just piss ppl off- unless your into personal DVD mass production- you'd probobly keep using DVD Shrink than spend another $300-$500 on another drive.
  
  
  Also it even says in the article that philips will have a firmware upgrade ^_^ i cant wait- i just wonder if they plan to eventualy replace dvd-r(5) with dvd-r(9) or sell them side by side but sell dvd-r(9) discs for more money.

  22.2.2004 11:05 #6

• WildKat

  Another FYI, if you are arguing that the dual layer dvd is 8.5 or 7.25 GB, sorry but they are 9.4 GB. Each side is what a single sided dvd writeable disc is (4.7 GB) and that translates into a 9.4 GB disc. Please read the following from a reseller on all DVD, CD media and hardware:
  
  Double-Sided Doubles Capacity!
  Large capacity, Double-Sided "General Purpose DVD-R Media". 4.3GB of storage per side, (remove disc and turn over to record on 2nd side). Compatible with all DVD burners that support burning of DVD-R media, including Pioneer DVR-A03, DVR-103, DVR-A04, DVR-104, DVR-A05, DVR-105, Panasonic LF-D311, LF-D321, LF-D521, Sony DRU500A, DRU500AX, plus the DVD-R/RW drives built into Apple G4 and Compaq Presario 7000 computers.

  22.2.2004 11:14 #7

• pcshateme

  your a newbie so I WONT YELL AT YOU!!!!
  
  but a dvdr SAYS it holds 4.7- but thats in Japaneese killobytes- it actualy holds about 4.35GB and a DVD-9 SAYs it can hold 9.4 but it can actualy only hold 7.25
  
  read the links
  
  DVD-5
  DVD-9
  this website even tells you
  

  check out my site http://www.backupguides.vze.com for free software and illustrated guides on copying DVDs to DVD, to CD, and other copying stuff.

  22.2.2004 11:17 #8

• pcshateme

  also you r confused we r talking about DUAL LAYERD not DUAL SIDDED DVD-r
  
  DUAL LAYER has 2 chemical layers inside it so its like double sided but actualy all on 1 physical side
  
  DUAL SIDED has 2 physical layers (like a dvd that has a full screen version on one side and a wide screen on the other
  

  check out my site http://www.backupguides.vze.com for free software and illustrated guides on copying DVDs to DVD, to CD, and other copying stuff.

  22.2.2004 11:20 #9

• Nephilim

  Here's from the article:
  
  "System makers can download the firmware to upgrade existing DVD+RW chips from supporting 4.7GB to 8.5GB."
  
  Note the first two words: system makers. This doesn't guarantee a free firmware download to end-users. I'm not saying a free firmware for users is impossible, I'm just looking at it from the business standpoint of the manufacturers. How can they expect the maximum sales of a new dual-layer drive when a firmware upgrade is available?
  
  Just because someone's tag here says newbie doesn't automatically mean they've come here knowing absolutely nothing on the subject and deserve to get jumped for making an honest mistake.

  22.2.2004 12:55 #10

• pcshateme

  i wasnt cause he was a newbie- i was one like a month ago-its because he kinda got snippy at me even though i was right. BUT ANYWAY
  
  actualy it would be in there best interest to sell the firmware upgrade for a REASONABLE fee- cause it would piss all there customers off to make them buy a new drive when most of them just bought it. A burner shouldnt have to be replaced every 2 years like a computer- hell most people still have cd burners from 1998!

  22.2.2004 13:06 #11

• Nephilim

  I totally agree that a small fee for the upgrade would garner ALOT of fans for whoever does it. Are you listening Plextor!?! Here's to hoping. Even if the manufacturers get stingy about it I wouldn't be surprised if hacked firmwares pop up to appease the masses :)

  22.2.2004 14:05 #12

• pcshateme

  go on kazaa and look for dvd(9) firmware hacks!

  22.2.2004 14:10 #13

• WildKat

  Sorry if you thought i got snippy. I did not mean to rag you. i stand corrected. So long, i can see the heads (as in egotistical) are too big for me here. pcshateme, you need to chill man. There's a big web out there and this "newbie" says so long.

  22.2.2004 14:22 #14

• pcshateme

  dont be like that :(

  22.2.2004 14:38 #15

• L-Burna

  I heard they are making 17gig discs but that is only what I heard the limit is up to now they won't release the burners until they want to meaning testing if it will be dependable.If they want to they will make a firmware for it but I highly doubt it since everyone that makes burners are out to make money so in the long run they are just gonna screw everyone over and make them buy a new drive.I agree with everyone else though if it can be done by hacking it I am 100% supporting it if it can't oh well I guess I am gonna have to sell out and pay for the burner.

  22.2.2004 16:53 #16

• Oriphus

  Its looking promising after Pioneer did the balls-up and did a demo of dual layer with a firmware modified Pioneer DVR106d. Looks like the industry can rip us off and sell new drives. Ha Ha - good old Pioneer.
  
  Also, Ritek expect the ETA of the dual layer +R discs to be available in the summer. I'll update when i hear anything.
  Chris

  22.2.2004 16:54 #17

• aXidburn

  no the 17 gig disks were for the blu-ray burner not the DVD-9 burner

  22.2.2004 17:13 #18

• L-Burna

  Nah I didn't mean it like that I meant the highest they have out is 17gig that I know of.If anything yeah dvd9 burners are coming out no matter what.I went and read up about Hp and alot of others encluding Pioneer making dvd9 burners.If the 17gig burner is possible then why not buy a burner that will let you keep upgrading to a higher size limit.That would be tight right but that will probably never happen unless you are rich and can buy a press machine right.

  22.2.2004 17:45 #19

• fibertag

  Im just wondering how much the media is going to cost!
  I would guess $3 or more a disk. Wanna start a pool?

  23.2.2004 03:46 #20

• pcshateme

  well only name brands will sell em at first so i guess like $5 each.
  
  also the 17GB is for a DUAL SIDED DUAL LAYER DVD+R (that can have 2 dual layer sides per disc)
  
  bluray holds 27GB

  23.2.2004 09:45 #21

• aXidburn

  so when is the blu-ray coming out?
  

  AMD athlon 64 3200+
  512 mb ram
  120 gig hdd
  Memorex dual x format
  ps2 v10...with m2

  23.2.2004 11:34 #22

• pcshateme

  not for joe shmo for like 5 years cause its only experimental for rich companies now- its not actualy in mass production yet
  

  check out my site http://www.backupguides.vze.com for free software and illustrated guides on copying DVDs to DVD, to CD, and other copying stuff.

  23.2.2004 11:47 #23

• DJ2

  With my desire to convert a number of VHS home movies I am getting closer to understanding what hardware I need but I do not understand how or if I can get two full hours on a DVD with out flipping and by using standard consumer DVD burner with out sacrificing quality? Are DVD movies written on multilayered or maybe a compression other than MPEG2.

  23.2.2004 15:41 #24

• pcshateme

  production dvds are on dual layer dvds
  dvd-rs are only single layered (layers meaning chemical not actualy 2 physical layers)
  
  also dvds use mpeg 2 (and blue ray will not be used a dvd replacement anytime soon- they are working on making mpeg4 dvds that can hold more video than standard dvd in normal quality or the same amount of time in high def- they think they can do it wiht only a smple firmware update dvd for your player!)
  
  and if you are looking for a high quality way to convert VHS to DVD you can by a standard DVD+RW dvd burner (like a vcr only on dvds) for only $333 at walmart.com- dont bother using your computer cause it takes forever and looks worse than the origional no matter how good your pc is

  23.2.2004 16:16 #25

• askyew

  I hope that I am wrong, but I read an article that was copied and pasted on cd freaks about 2 months ago about the dual layered DVD. A person from phillips said that a firmware update could work. He went on to say that the lasers in the burners right now may not be powerful enough to burn the dual layered DVD. He also said the cost of them would probably be double the cost of the single layered. Just the messenger dont shoot me.

  24.2.2004 01:44 #26

• Oriphus

  Quote:so when is the blu-ray coming out?Blu Ray has been out in Asia for over a year. You can purchase one, but they cost around $2000 for a system and media will be hard to come by.
  
  Dual layered discs should be able to be burnt using the original drives. Philips announced on their website that their later models will work with firmware up-dates to burn the media at 2.4x. Pioneer have actually already demostrated it works with existing drives...
  

  For DVD Back up info: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk
  http://www.dvd-backup.tk
  For User Guides/Downloads: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk/user_guides.htm
  

  25.2.2004 16:23 #27

• pcshateme

  i hope my old drive is upgradeable- (ikebana justlink 2.4 +RW drive- realy cheap no name brand but the company is owned by the big company richo) but if not i guess i'll just have to shell out $200 for another cheap one. :) anyway is there any reason why only +RW can be upgraded? i heard that so far there is no concievable way to make dual layer -rs (but then again oriphus proved me wrong about blu ray.) is this because +r is chemicaly different than -r (or something?)
  

  check out my site http://www.backupguides.vze.com for free software and illustrated guides on copying DVDs to DVD, to CD, and other copying stuff.

  25.2.2004 16:31 #28

• Oriphus

  Actually, it has less to do with the dyes and more to do with the way in which the data is held on the disc. I have no idea if DVD-R is to become a dual layer format, my presumption is that it will ne since it is still fully supported by the DVD Forum.
  
  The technology behind +R/RW is slightly more advanced than that of DVD-R. With the +RW discs, a future aspect of them will be Mount Rainier (MRW+) which will allow user to literally drag and drop data on to the discs.
  

  For DVD Back up info: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk
  http://www.dvd-backup.tk
  For User Guides/Downloads: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk/user_guides.htm
  

  25.2.2004 16:59 #29

• pcshateme

  sweet!
  

  check out my site http://www.backupguides.vze.com for free software and illustrated guides on copying DVDs to DVD, to CD, and other copying stuff.

  25.2.2004 17:52 #30

• aXidburn

  nice so my memorex or should i say pioneer drive will be firmwire updateable to dvd9!!

  26.2.2004 11:54 #31

• Oriphus

  The truth is, we dont know for sure. No one does until one of the big companies states it. Philips have already said their drives that are +/- will be updateable to burn at 2.4x, Pioneer have showcased a 106 doing it, so outside that i havent got an idea which will and wont.
  

  For DVD Back up info: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk
  http://www.dvd-backup.tk
  For User Guides/Downloads: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk/user_guides.htm
  

  26.2.2004 12:09 #32

• aardvark7

  Why does VHS suck? Because a/it's barely 420 lines of resolution, b/it's analog. DVD sucks by the way, too. Nothing compares to nice, raw, HDTV.
  
  And why is a Jap kilo different from American kilo? -It's not! 1 byte is 8 Bits, a 1024 bytes is a kilobyte, 1024 kb is a megabyte (1048576 bytes), 1024 megabytes is a gigabyte (1073741824 bytes, 1048576 kilobytes), etc. Did someone fail Digital Systems 101?

  1.3.2004 22:22 #33

• Oriphus

  Not sure where those questions came from?
  
  I prefer HDTV and im eagerly looking forward to HD DVD to supplement this. However, at the minute, using a Marantz Progressive scanning system im utilising HDTV 720p and 1080i, though i prefer 720p. It gives a very ood definition picture.
  
  VHS is pretty useless in terms of quality, but for the average joe bloggs recording stuff from their TV, it works and works well. It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks, so our newer generation will inevitably be more comfortable with format changing.
  

  For DVD Back up info: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk
  http://www.dvd-backup.tk
  For User Guides/Downloads: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk/user_guides.htm
  

  1.3.2004 23:43 #34

• pcshateme

  the problem is it that when dvd recorders are as common as vhs- HD DVD or bluray will have taken over

  2.3.2004 09:43 #35

• Oriphus

  Exactly, the format wars will continue and technology will always be updated...
  

  For DVD Back up info: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk
  http://www.dvd-backup.tk
  For User Guides/Downloads: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk/user_guides.htm
  

  2.3.2004 13:46 #36

• pcshateme

  i just hope that bluray players will be dual laser and play the old DVD- cause it would piss me (and everyone else) off if our HUGE DVD collections were no longer playable.
  

  check out my site http://www.backupguides.vze.com for free software and illustrated guides on copying DVDs to DVD, to CD, and other copying stuff.

  2.3.2004 13:59 #37

• Oriphus

  I think the likelyhood is that they will add in support for Red Laser, it cant be that expensive and would be stupid if they didnt.
  

  For DVD Back up info: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk
  http://www.dvd-backup.tk
  For User Guides/Downloads: http://www.chrismccann.co.uk/user_guides.htm
  

  3.3.2004 08:17 #38