FBI targets child porn on P2P

FBI has launched a nationwide probe into child porn trafficking over the P2P networks in the United States and so far FBI has investigated over 1,000 cases and have arrested already more than 65 people.

FBI's actions indicate that pedophiles have moved from Net's chat rooms, discussion forums and private web servers to the seemignly anonymous P2P networks. Seemingly because none of the P2P networks have managed to create truly anonymous file sharing service as of yet, which is easy to prove by investigating the lists of individuals who have been sued previously by the RIAA.



The probe, which is a co-operation between various American law enforcement agencies, has resulted to arrests related to distribution of child porn and in some cases sexual abuse of children.

"No one should be able to avoid prosecution for contributing to the abuse and exploitation of the nation’s children," Attorney General John Ashcroft said.

Source: Associated Press via MSN

Written by: Petteri Pyyny @ 14 May 2004 14:26
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  • 80 comments

  • siber

    Great, just what we need. In that figure, are they including Intelligence Operatives in the Baghdad jail system?

    14.5.2004 15:39 #1

  • brian100

    Good on the FBI..track down and halt this evil trade, catch these evil sick perverts who trade in THE most offensive material imagineable.

    How can you possible have a problem with the FBI here siber????

    On Initial Viewing My Backup Looked Terrible,
    But With One Eye Closed It Aint Half Bad!!

    15.5.2004 03:50 #2

  • siber

    I have no problem with the FBI here. Child pornography is like you said...very ugly stuff that only gives P2P a bad name. Anybody who can rid us of this is welcome, of course. I was just a bit cynical, I guess, about Mr Ashcroft and his true motives. As much self-policing by P2P and all of us is what's really needed. I hate to have to rely on the FBI to clean up our act. It seems to me that the FBI has a lot of other priorities to attend to.

    15.5.2004 05:47 #3

  • Frozilla

    There is absolutely zero reason to argue with shutting that garbage down period.

    15.5.2004 19:23 #4

  • Hanedrick

    The only reason you could possible be upset with the FBI is why they didn't do this sooner! Hell, I'll search "sex" on Kazaa, just looking for some good legal porn, and shit will come up with descriptions of child porn! WTF?! Child melestation is no small matter and should be a TOP priority for the FBI!


    Version 10 ps2.
    Fliptop Cover/smd

    15.5.2004 22:32 #5

  • Shegax

    Yes, I agree. For once they are welcome here to clean out this shit on the P2P. We try and stand for P2P and free information, and all that could be tarnished by yet " another Reason" why P2P should be shut down "in thier eyes". SO FBI go tracj down those sick ass peeps, they aren't welcome in our domain

    16.5.2004 01:34 #6

  • Dela

    they still cudnt shut down P2P over child porn, think about it, that'd justify shutting down the whole net because some sites contain child porn!

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    16.5.2004 05:12 #7

  • kcc76

    they should all be tracked down and strung up by the
    b#*"~ks and put into a room with the parents that'll sort em out i know i would

    16.5.2004 05:55 #8

  • Dela

    lol i guess it would work ye! :-) I get very pissed off with people who trade this type of material online or worse, actually abuse children! I think the punishments for such crimes are just not good enuff!

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    16.5.2004 13:30 #9

  • Frozilla

    Chester Chester the molester. They should hang them from the ceiling by there balls and paper clips.

    17.5.2004 00:43 #10

  • Dela

    Nah just throw em in jail and leave them there for a long time, they will get a much worse time there when the other's find out what they are there for :-)

    17.5.2004 20:24 #11

  • daz2712

    That's what I say do.Throw them in jail with a big sign on their back saying kiddie molestor and let the others in there sort out their punishment.Dirty bastards should have the crap kicked out of them every day! I for one would love to get a chance!

    18.5.2004 14:55 #12

  • Dela

    Well i dunno what real punishment they deserve, ill just leave it up to someone else to do it!

    18.5.2004 15:18 #13

  • Toiletman

    Punishment should be: Hearing me sing at 3:00 AM every night :D

    Worse than life sentence in jail and having your liver ripped out by a crowbar everyday only to find it to regrow the next day and having it ripped out again.

    18.5.2004 20:04 #14

  • siber

    I cannot agree more that child pornography needs to be dealt with. I doubt that there ever will be a way of eradicating it. All the proposed punishments - noted above - will not succeed in doing that.

    I would be extremely happy if it was the P2P programmers and users who found a way of just freeing the net of child pornography. If we cannot do it, then let the FBI try to do it. So be it.

    Unfortunately the FBI doesn't have a great track record so far and I would hate to invite them in and then find out that they use this pretext for knocking down all privacy barriers that you and I have enjoyed so far.

    I would hate to give them the right to go check the Hard Drive of anybody and everybody looking for 'child pornography' and then have them say: we didn't find any child pornography but we found these other files that need to be looked at...

    18.5.2004 20:37 #15

  • djtp

    siber's right. The client creators, network designers and supernode hosts have enough power to stop this themselves. Kazaa lite comes with a good blocklist feature that could be adapted & the direct connect community/moderator model seems to prevent kiddy porn very well already.. If state agencies develop the tools and get the resources to crackdown on this there's plenty of other less righteous uses they could put it to. We need to show P2P can have laudable public uses & take responsibility for some of the problems it creates, its life hangs in the balance

    20.5.2004 14:59 #16

  • ZetaGC

    What we need is a very large, worldwide group of P2P members who can help patrol the networks. Then that sick material would be flagged by these people for a bot to automatically remove users and such content. Of course it's just a vision, we have to face reality:

    A) There would not be many dedicated people willing to patrol the P2P network even for say, 10 minutes. (We do get bored don't forget!)

    B) So we make sure one sick bastard hit the ground hard, there would still be many more cropping up.

    C) Some ppl "dedicated" to the cause may demand for money to police the P2P group despite it being a mainly free community!

    Reality sucks sometimes!

    21.5.2004 03:01 #17

  • fartpoop

    for all you know it could be your neighbour thats downloadin child porn i figure the best way to deal with it is hack his computer and if you see these type of files on his pc wait at his doorstep and when he comes out for his outside time which he would not recognize you because of the ski mask covering your face pound the living crap out of him to the point he wont even recognize himself in the mirror let alone he cant look in the mirror because he sits in a wheel chair due to his broken legs you just might feel like you put a dent in some sickos lifestyle.

    p.s only if i knew how to hack a pc.
    proud father of three beautiful children.
    _

    A i put it together in my apartment computer
    pentium 4 at 2.4, 533 front side bus.
    512 ddr ram 2600, 80 gig hard drive,
    LG 16x DVD/CD rom, NEC DVD_RW 8x nd-2500a [CD-R/RW]
    9000 ati sapphire pro 128 meg video card

    21.5.2004 06:35 #18

  • emirikol

    violence...nice. another reason this country is going down the crapper.

    24.5.2004 11:11 #19

  • fartpoop

    violence for a cause, i think the electric chair is also violent, and the gas chamber.
    i aint tryin to troll here but you must think differently bout child porn if you think i am "violent". I dont know if you have children yourself i do and when i see the news and child porn busts by police and so forth i look at my kids and i have a reason to get violent in fear that theres wackos out there that look at children in such a manor if i was to ever see anyone approach my children or any other child in that manor that i think gives me the right to get "violent".

    A i put it together in my apartment computer
    pentium 4 at 2.4, 533 front side bus.
    512 ddr ram 2600, 80 gig hard drive,
    LG 16x DVD/CD rom, NEC DVD_RW 8x nd-2500a [CD-R/RW]
    9000 ati sapphire pro 128 meg video card

    24.5.2004 12:37 #20

  • emirikol

    Nothing gives us the right to take the law into our own hands. Vigilantism is just one of the first steps to the end of civilized life. A path I don't want to walk down.

    25.5.2004 06:01 #21

  • siber

    Amen, Emirikol. I have chidren too, fartpoop...Implying that anybody who doesn't agree with you must somehow have dishonorable ideas about child pornography makes me wonder...

    This thread is quickly going nowhere. It is obvious that everybody is falling over themselves trying to explain how dreadful they all feel about child pornography invading our dear internet and the P2P community in particular.

    The only difference is that a lot of us are trying to up the previous comment by the severity of punishment we would dole out if it was up to us. Some are so adamant that we get a wee bit irrational by confusing how far we would go to protect our children from child slavery and the legitimate need to draw the line between 'pornography'(mostly considered an unavoidable nuisance by some and a necessary safety valve by others) and 'child pornography'(see effusive comments by others).

    The original question about the role of the FBI in all this has vanished in the mist...Time to close this one...

    25.5.2004 08:45 #22

  • steve7059

    Aside from the moral viewpoint, expressed her ad nauseum, condemning child pornography, let's not forget the legal viewpoint. While pornography is protected by the first ammendment protecting free speech, CHILD pornography does not enjoy that same protection. The real question, though, as pointed out earlier, is once the FBI gets their foot in the door, so to speak, what's to keep them from prosecuting the file-sharing of copyrighted material, which also does not enjoy the protection of the first ammendment.

    Although file swappers and child ponographers may be miles apart moralistically, in the eyes of the law, they are all lawbreakers.

    27.5.2004 11:29 #23

  • Toiletman

    Not filesharing, especially if you're in countries like Canada ;)

    Not all lawyers and judges are robots you know, they have feelings too...

    Just because filesharing and child pornography is illegal, which one do you think the judge will be more serious about?

    Some poor guy downloading a couple of songs off the internet using a program

    OR

    Some guy that is distrubuting child pornography or even being part of child pornography.

    And even if the FBI did step in and take that extra step to start the whole fucking war thing again, what the hell are you going to do about it?

    You can scream, rant, shout, even go crazy, but in the end, none of it will matter much.

    P.S. Feel free to change my mind using proper sentences and grammar. Flaming me is not going to do much. Unless of course, it's a good flame.

    When you are on your deathbed, you will wonder, "Did I waste my life? Was it worth spending all that time on that?" Do not despair, no one has wasted their life. After all, you can only waste something if you throw it away. And you can't throw life away.

    28.5.2004 07:39 #24

  • fartpoop

    excuse my comments i posted earlier bout child porn i just seem to get really upset when i hear situations revolving this topic, i think that people that work for organizations that search for these people aint doing a good job and they need to kick it up a notch regarding this situation at hand i mean theres so many ways to work threw the intranet to track down people recently ive seen people gettin arrested for child porn but i think they should get more into computer resources of tracking these certain individuals and deal with it.

    A i put it together in my apartment computer
    pentium 4 at 2.4, 533 front side bus.
    512 ddr ram 2600, 80 gig hard drive,
    LG 16x DVD/CD rom, NEC DVD_RW 8x nd-2500a [CD-R/RW]
    9000 ati sapphire pro 128 meg video card

    28.5.2004 18:22 #25

  • djtp

    Exactly, morally it's obvious uploading kiddy porn is a far worse crime than uploading a britney spears mp3 but both are illegal and, more importantly, the technology and legal mechanisms the authorities can use for one can easily be applied to the other. The only way to prevent this is with a community solution.

    For exmple.. All p2p files have a unique HASH, and most networks use some kinda SUPERNODE system.. If you were to use a method similar to the 'Block Bad IP Ranges' feature in KazaaLite supernodes could prevent distribution of files verified/or strongly suspected of being kiddy porn.

    You wouldn't need a team of volunteers, just a report this file button in the client program.. Who wouldn't take the time to report a kiddy porn file if they knew this may eradicate the file from the network?

    This would require the co-operation of the coders building the software and some volunteers to run the centralised block list but most of it could be automated and it would avoid the feds being given carte blanche, which is exactly what they'll get if we don't fix it ourselves!

    1.6.2004 12:39 #26

  • Nunya1

    Ok, people, lets get real here! How can anyone who has any sense of being "Just" or fair in our blood thirsty world say that putting people in prison for crimes that they did not commit or had no hand in creating righteous?? Yes, the pedophiles making the shit should be put away, but how can it be fair to hold someone else accountable for the actions of the sick ones out there that are making it! Its like this...thounsands of people die every year in drunk driving accidents out there but no one throws the makers of booze in jail now do they, they go after the people who actually caused the accidents.
    Yes child porn is hideous and socially unacceptable, but to persecute the people who meerly look at(either purposely or by mistake) is nothing but a primitive witch hunt...just like the "Salem witch hunts" from 100`s of years ago. People this is not the middle ages so before you go and immediately prejudge everyone and label them as social outcasts because they meerly look at other peoples crimes scenes you should educate yourself more.Not everyone who looks at kiddie porn are pedophiles and if your use your precious internet to research it you will see the error of your ways. I dont care what anyone looks at as long as it it the privacy of thier own home. They need to get the people who make it and distribute it. heres a URL for those of you who may want to open your minds a little bit and edutace yourself
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/926810/posts
    read this. Its normal human behavior to hate, fear, or despise anything they do not understand but we have been given brains ..use them, after all this is the 21st century! Heres more food for thought take a look around this frickin site and tell me why this shit is legal www.rotten.com now ask yourself why is this legal and child porn not.A site to the sickest shit imaginable is legal...dead and dismembered bodies, decaying flesh, thats some sick shit....but its legal

    10.7.2004 07:02 #27

  • spangle

    nunya1

    10.7.2004 09:25 #28

  • Toiletman

    spangle, are you sexually obsessed with nunya1 or something.... =P

    Anyway, anyone heard anymore "extra news" on this? I haven't been using Kazaa Lite for ages, and I haven't started up my WinMX for a while either.

    Maybe they're really kicking it up a notch.

    Everyone is entitled to their own true opinion. Either respect that or don't.

    11.7.2004 12:08 #29

  • Dela

    Well I have posted the way I see these crimes on other threads on the forum but I cant remember exactly what threads!

    Some of the posts i have read here have bits and pieces i agree with!

    Its a bad situation for sure because there are so many factors one SHOULD take into account! For example, some people are being sued for uploading music and others are getting away with uploading kiddy porn or getting off lightly! Now this could anger anybody, because i also agree that child porn is a lot more serious crime than copyright infringement! However, before people jump to their guns at people who upload/download child porn, take a look into their past! The horrible truth that is hard to accept is that many of these people have developed an unnatural attraction to children because of an event or series of events in their childhood! For example, a person who was sexually molested as a child might grow to find it socially acceptable! I believe it is more of an illness than anything else! Probably very hard to cure too! Now there is still no excuse to distribute this sort of material online or by any other means, but any1 who does this should seriously consider taking a look back and wondering why they do it! If you go forward and admit u have a problem there are people who can help you through it in the world. I think its like a cycle that never ends! A child is influenced at an early age by what adults do mostly! a child will then grow into an adult eventually too and keep what they grew up with! But as i said, it DOES NOT justify using the Internet to trade this type of material, whether or not you have actually abused children in your life, its all the same, its spreading something that shouldn't be spread. Now thats one example, another problem also lies here!

    In some countries in the world, people are brought up different! For example, some countries encourage nudism in people of all ages. Nudism is not Pornography in most countries in the world too! In fact there are countries where they would frown that someone would have a problem with a naked body in public! And people might think this is the wrong way to bring up children, and thats ok, its up to them, its their opinion but many oif these countries claim they dont have problems with child porn or child abuse on the scale the rest of the world does, simply because they are brought up to realise everyone is basically the same! now as for me, i dont really follow that belief either and i think countries that practice this might wanna watch who frequently goes on holiday there lol

    In my opinion, child porn is evil and should be destroyed. There is nothing that justifys distributing it, not even a bad childhood, if someone had a bad childhood its up to them to fix their lives up! in this world no1 would do it for you! I support the Feds and other organisations in their fight against child porn online and on P2P and im not ashamed to admit that, but its a very very bad situation! especially with the internet that expands across so many countries and cultures!

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    11.7.2004 21:28 #30

  • Toiletman

    You've made some very good points/strong arguements, but there is one thing.

    When peedofiles (pardon my spelling) get caught, they're usually treated with help, whether they're in prison or not.

    Everyone is entitled to their own true opinion. Either respect that or don't.

    12.7.2004 12:12 #31

  • Dela

    Yes that is true BUT the sad part of that is a very sick and twisted man could use that as a way of getting out of jail, or maybe a way of getting shorter time! Like I said already, its a very bad situation!

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    13.7.2004 01:46 #32

  • john179

    We all know these individuals are sick minded.But the thing that annoys me is we treat these people like it is a illness.First they put all the children and there familys through hell.Then when they get banged up where we treat them for some sort of illness.Then the victims family are expected to pay there goverments to help fund sorting them out.When they get back out they do the same again what is the point.There should be a island with no escape where there put and they fend for themselves and do not return.Jarrasic Park would be nice if it was real let them become the hunted for a change.If not the death penalty fits the crime with the victims family's choice of exicution and excutioner.If the fbi want to shut P2P down so what.It is better to get the sick individuals of the net where are kids surf than to have P2P.My only problem with this is i don't think it would get them off the net which we would all like.

    13.7.2004 12:04 #33

  • Dela

    @john179, i agree with a lot of what you said, the way this is dealt with is not right!

    However, you cannot shut down P2P because some sick individuals might be trading kiddy porn with each other. That also means u could eradicate the world of VCR's and camera's etc... Having them hunted down individually is the best choice, the only thing i find wrong about the campaign against them is how it's being dealt with. It's being dealt with publically, they should have just taken them all by surprise but they didnt!

    13.7.2004 12:32 #34

  • coachop94

    I agree with the Attorney Generals comment,however I don't trust the Feds any farther than I could throw an agent.Our government needs it's own set of watchdogs(it's citizens)to keep them in line.They may claim they are doing one thing for a specific reason but twist it to use it for something else.If only they were trustworthy.As far as "treating a pediphile" that's like treating a person for being homosexual.Doesn't work they just aren't going to be hertosexual.THEY ARE HOMOSEXUAL! They will always be so.In jail pediphiles are separated from the ohter prisoners.I don't think that should be I also don't think they should ever be released back into society EVER.Unfortunately we will never eradicate the world of these tpyes of people because they just make themselves less visable to avoid detection.All the while they continue what it is they do.Only one that can effectively handle this is God!

    14.7.2004 00:13 #35

  • Dela

    Well im not much of a believer unfortunately! It does anger me that kiddie porn somehow is just allowed to appear online. I cant stand the fact that these people think that they can just use it as a safe ground for what they do! I hope its completely taken off the net, it doesnt belong here!

    14.7.2004 00:52 #36

  • john179

    I think i went a little over the top with P2P as peronally it does not bother me either way.Obviously i do not want people to miss out on something like this if used correctly.I just want these creeps off the net

    14.7.2004 10:50 #37

  • Dela

    Dont we all man? but thats the problem, things like free speech can be great, but also can be used as a way to justify things. For example, on the VCDQ forum, an Admin, pHO, was using Google one night when one of his results ended out to be a sdite where pedophiles terll erach other about girls they like and other information. That to me is absolutely sick but with the whole free speech thing the way it is, it cant be taken off the net! Well, not yet anyways!

    14.7.2004 10:54 #38

  • Nunya1

    ok, well heres the URL I posted earlier because I dont think enough people have read this
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/926810/posts
    Now, heres some of the wrongs our society and our government has created....

    I personaly know someone who was busted with Child Porn and will be serving 5 years in prison + he has to register as a sex offender( even though he never molested , or abused anyone)

    now, another person I knew of was convicted of 3 counts of child molestation and 3 counts of sodomy with a child and only got a 3 year sentence.

    So, you tell me... wheres the f**** Justice in this?

    Our society has become so influenced by TV personalities like John Walsh, who tells everyone that people who view child porn are monsters ,slime , and all kinds of horrible things like that,so, most believe him just because he`s John Walsh.
    What Mr. Walsh doesnt talk about are things that the Bible (our Higher Law) talks about..like..forgiveness, compassion, and tolerance.

    He also fails to tell people that a very , very small portion of child porn is what people think it is,,brutality, masocist, satist, and violent. most of it is not like that at all, in fact a few people have been charged for taking pictures of thier kids bathing.

    Its nothing but a god damn witch hunt, just like the Salem witch hunts we had in America back when our society had very little or no education, so, whats wrong with us today, its unwarranted mass hysteria.

    Heres another fact...the FBI isnt heading this operation Immigration and Customs Enforcement is and they have made over 3,200 arrests since July of 2003.Can any of you imagine the costs of this operation and the costs of the trials and how much it will cost to incarcerate that many people...and heres another thing to consider.....

    these people have been branded as being pedophiles and will have this to carry with them for ever!! Hell, even MacDonald`s do background checks now days and if someone convicted of having and viewing pictures of what most people consider to be objectional and obscene on thier computers isnt even good enough to sling french fries what are they supposed to do??

    Well i can guess what they will do, become even more socially exiled and this will also burden the Tax paying people of this country, so, you tell me...who wins in cases like this? Its not the assholes screaming "Lock `em Up & throw away the key"!!! Its the tax payers.

    All of this is something everyone should consider when they persecute anyone without know any facts about this at all!!

    Did any of you know that Child Porn was legal until 1979? you could walk into smoke shops and places like that and buy Child Porn magazines...Heres another fact for all of you witch hunters, while it was legal, the actual amount of children being molested was much lower than it is today!

    Ask yourself, is this Justice when someone is sentenced to a longer prison term who meerly looks at objectionl material than the creeps that make it, Be honest, I think you will see my point.

    One other thing, I realize that its a natural human condition to fear or even hate what you dont understand , so educate yourselves before you judge others and try to practice common values that our bible talks about after all no one wins with Child Porn..No One!!!!

    17.7.2004 18:20 #39

  • Dela

    Firstly id like to just say I am well educated! And yes we went over these matters when i weas studying and had many debates related to it.

    There are some parts of what you are sayiing I agree with and some parts that I dont.

    Firstly I will go with what I dont agree with.

    You say that molesting a childs is not as serious an offense as viewing child porn. Now it mauy not be as serious but look at it in another light. If this child is young enough, they would not have the mental capacity to consent pictures being taken of them and distributed! Im talking about pictures of kids performing or being involved in sexual acts. I know the differences u mention, like for example, nudist resorts and nusist/naturist ways of life exist! Different places have different cultures so we have to account for them all before anybody can say something about it!

    You mentioned child porn being Legal till the late 70's and the fact that child molestation numbers went down. Come on now, think about it. Pictures of kids in a magazine performing sex acts or whatever they had in them is just downright wrong, it is exploting a child who doesnt have the mental capacity to consent to it. I'm not a dad, but i swear if i ever caught man or woman trying to do the same with my children, id have my child leave the room and id kill that person on the spot! why u might ask? Well ill give you an answer, I know someone who went through molestation as a child and that person has never gotten over it. That person still dreams about it happening and wakes up screaming over it. It destroyed this persons childhood and is doing a very good at destroying this persons life. It has made him/her (i wont even say if its a man or woman, ill keep it that anonymous for him/her) attempt suicide at even the age of 12! Oh but his/her molester is dead and why? because HE was caught and he didnt want to face the consequences of his action so he killed himself! Now is that right?? And would it be right if there was pictures of my friend that young floating around a P2P network of this happening? No it wouldnt and you know it!

    Now you might make the arguments to me that ART and NUDISM is harmless and for the most part, yes it is! Most familys take pictures of their children naked for photo albums, i know there are pictures of me as a kid naked in the family photo albums. But as far as i know, nudism etc websites exist to advertise resorts and generally the way of life, why arent they being taken down? Because they dont have explicit materials but on P2P if u make a search with the right keywords u would nearly throw up at what the names and descriptions of some of these files are, it is pure sick! Now a picture of 4 kids playing a game on a nudism site may be harmless, but when on P2P they have the photo being shared with the description "Preteen Child Porn" they are exploting the kids in this photo, and who would download it? if u were looking for nudism that would disgust you to see it described as that! I read a report on Child Porn on P2P and Newsgroups before and in all the downloads the authorities made, 90% of it was explicit content! So yes this action P2P trading is right!

    Now back to what you said earlier, It is wrong that the second person u mentioned got a shorter term for sure, I agree with you completely with that, but that doesnt make me believe the first person should not have went to jail!

    Anyways that's my opinion, im not under educated, i was on a debating team for a while and when this subject came up, trust me, my team won!

    18.7.2004 02:14 #40

  • thor999

    so, does anyone have any real ideas on how I can help stop this? because, in my opinion, curiosity can lead to much worse, especially for those with weaker minds than ours. I, once, had dl'ed the first thirty secs of one a long time ago, previewd it, simply because I couldn't belive the shit was real. Lo and behold, some poor little girl in some nasty ass third world counrty trailer is sitting on the couch and I understood then that the shit was for real, didn't even have to see her naked or anything to understand, these sickos probably fund these guys to go to other countries and take advantage of their disadvantaged young, hell, wouldn't be surprised to see some fathers rent their kids out for just this purpose. Some of us just don't understand how good we have it (I live in the U.S., where just about anyone that can apply theirself can succeed) I don't know, this is just an opinion, hope not to offend but to enlighten rather, by the way this was a file of winmx like 2 yrs ago, and I remember "Ray Gold style" being in the title, as well as about 20-30 other files, as a result of a search for keyword "porn" go figure. This needs to be stopped immediately and I would certainly be able to hit a "button" everytime I seen one, if I thought it would be investigated by the fbi. Innocence should be prized above everything else, especially where our children are concerned. If I had to give up p2p to save ONE CHILD from being sexually abused, I would do it and no, I have never been nor know anyone who has been abused. What's right is right.

    ...and the dead shall walk the earth...

    18.7.2004 03:42 #41

  • Nunya1

    "dela" this whole discussion is not an insult directed to you and I never did focus on you or say that you were uneducated either, im sorry if you took it that way, please excuse me if i said anything that made you even think that.

    I think that maybe I did not come across correctly, I do NOT think that child porn should be legal,but to sentence someone more harshly for porn than the actual molesters themsleves defies all logic and sense of fair play and more importantly JUSTICE! Dont you?

    Anyway, on to your comment about the "so called" victims of child porn well, I was molested and I too was the "victim" of a pornographer at the age of 15 and yes I did know what I was doing and yes , He did get caught , and NO i do not think he deserved Prison (he needed help). Maybe a lengthy stay in a mental facility 1st and then if he did it again then Prison.
    I do not hate the man, never did! Here we go again, He was convicted at the "State" level and recieved a 6 year sentence, with federal guidleines it would have been aroun 25 to 30. Can you honestly say that people dont deserve a 2nd chance? I know the recidivism rate for peodphiles is around 67% but heres the thing...what about the other 33% and most of all the ones who never did anything , physcially, to anyone, do they deserve no 2nd chance and no opportunity at helping themselves out with guidance??And to be branded as pedophiles persecuted and burned at the stake?Lets be 4 real now...

    If you say yes to this i feel this just goes to show you what my point is exactly, our society has completely lost all sense of many of the vaules our grandparents tried to put into each and everyone of us, back to the bible stuff and the golden rules and such. And once again it doesnt help people whe we have people on TV out there preaching anthing but the exact opposite of these values.

    Just to get this right, child porn is wrong, and must be deat with but to drop atomic bombs when youre meerly swaating at flies is not the way to do it!

    18.7.2004 05:58 #42

  • Dela

    Oh i never said it was a direct attack at me or anything I was just making sure u knew that i did know my stuff before I replied and yes the law is in a severely bad state! However, you're probably talking on behalf of the U.S. wheras I'm in Ireland here. You are making many references to the bible but I'm not a believer, i have seen no evidence of god or anything spiritual in my life.

    But back to the point. I don't like the way you say the "so called" victims of child porn. Nobody on this planet should have pictures of themselves in the hands of others if they dont want to! And my friend is not a "so called" victim, my friend is a VICTIM. When I found my friend half dead i realised this, when i spoke to my friend and found out that my friend cant even have sex, one of lifes most important things because of the memories. And the man responsible for this, I would give him NO second chance if he was alive and I met him!

    I don't think you understand, we're talking about kids here for gods sake. They are not adults! If you believe in God, then you believe in forgiveness BUT you have to accept the fact that this isnt acceptable in God's eyes either. I dont have kids because I'm still young but there are a lot of kids around me and they are not objects for people to use, they are kids, i dont understand how to put it into words any more than that. It's just liek rapists for me, I despise rapists and would find it amazingly hard to forgive one for their evil crimes!

    I will agree with you that people who are charged with possession of child porn should not get as much time in jail as someone who actually abuses children, but in the case of P2P, these people are sharers, distributers so they deserve a good penalty for their actions! They have to accept it, they are quite simply breaking the law. If i went and robben an off license and was caught, I'd accept I was going to Jail for what I have done. What I fear is that a very disturbed individual who is a danger to kids could use "It's a Problem" as an excuse, but I do know that in some cases it really is a problem. People who have experienced abuse in their childhood could grow up to mentally find it acceptable and it's not their fault. But the system doesn't know each case man, so they have to abide by the lawe because with the system and the law there is nothing but chaos! I can understand to a degree what you are saying, but trying to say "so called" victims really pisses me off, you visit my friend and see. Its one of my main prioritys in life to get my friend back man, and i will some day, but what annoys me is i shudnt have to, my friend should already be living life to the fullest! And as for your case, remember, different people respond to different things in different ways!

    http://www.BillLonero.com - Check out a true artists music!

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    18.7.2004 10:28 #43

  • Nunya1

    I do not remeber what news article I read I wish I could remember it) So I could direct you to it. There was a group of doctors that did a 2 year study with criminals "all kinds" of criminals not just pedophiles and this study revealed an interesting point. Something that maybe everyone should consider before we start condemning people.....The study revealed that in countries that had lowered penalties for certian crimes the actual amount of the crimes decreased and became less extreme in nature. Think about this...(Im very sorry your friend was hurt..I truely am) but, I know what this individual was thinking...Im going to be put in jail for a long long time ,so, I must destroy the evidence, that happened to be your friend. Do you think that maybe, just maybe he may have spared her some of the brutality if he knew that his punishment would be much much less? I truely think your answer would be "Yes". I do not condone violence or the abuse of anyone but if all of the governments around the world would approach thier laws with much more common sense crime would drastically be reduced. I am not blaming the Govt`s around the world either because most of them follow the proverbial "Mob Rules"..the majority, not sensible approaches dictate the laws...and in the USA its worse than anywhere else on earth. Our Govt is so fucked up its beyond sensible, its down right primitive and brutal. anyway..no one wins with crime, the leaders aroundthe world should try a more sensible approach and thats true more than ever here in the USA right now.

    20.7.2004 05:16 #44

  • lazygig

    I personally support vigilantism. If the court system doesn't work, sometimes its the only way. I'd say 85% of cases I hear about I don't think are handled properly. I don't condone drug use, but I hear about people with a 1/4 ounce of weed on them getting a year and being called a drug dealer, and manslaughter and attempted murder cases get months. Some people can't stand to see murderers walking until the trial. I think vigilanties should get charged with the crime they commit, but automatically get half the sentence given. (Then again, judges will just start throwing out double sentences). Actually, someone said we begin to get uncivilized when we take the law into our own hands, I disagree, in the early days of our country, their was no police force, and most problems were solved quickly and efficently. However, as we all know, that does just give some people an excuse to kill people they don't like or are just suspicious of.

    21.7.2004 00:02 #45

  • Nunya1

    lazygig, vivgilantism doesnt give people "due process" and they dont protect our civil rights or the amendments ...HA... come to think of it neither does the federal courts either. In fact the amendments staring with # 1 which state that american shall have preedom of speech and expression and heres the kicker it also says that no law shall ever be passed to breech those rights, well, they did make new laws that did breech them. 1 Child porn and 2ndly no one is allow by law to be agry and tell someone "im gunna kill you"! Ok, Im am a believer in absolutes when it comes to written laws so how the hell can the senators become so powerful to be able to re-write a law that our people have had as a sacred value in our country...lol.. they are just empty words and sound nice but the meaning is worthless just like alot of the idiots we vote in as president.Look at whats happening right now, we cannot vote on which candidate will do the best for us , instead we have to choose which is the worser of the 2 evils.

    As far as your comment about drugs and drug abuse heres an interesting fact for you to consider. In the last 6 months or so America has had 4 Federal Court Judges resign because even they agree that our so called "Justice System" is unfair and they dont want to be part of any system that says EVERYONE deserves to go to jail if they make mistakes. What...I ask What does that say about our government and to be more direct Congress, our Senators, and the President?Congress just recently sent and was signed off by Bush a bill that denies Federal Judges the ability to depart from thier sentencing guidlines for drug cases, gun cases , and sex cases. If the Judges do all hell breaks loose and Ashcroft gets involved with the shredding of the Judges integrity. So "Dela" be thankful you are in Ireland and not in the so-called "land of the Free" because its not free.

    21.7.2004 04:43 #46

  • stasha1

    How many FBI agents do you figure jerk off to kiddy porn when no one is watching? I would say most of them,what do you think?

    2.8.2004 12:48 #47

  • Nunya1

    well stasha,
    Since last july there have been several cops, agents, prosecutors, judges and government official busted for child porn! Hmm I wonder if they think it should be more severe as far as punishments go than say many other crimes?

    3.8.2004 05:05 #48

  • MartMart

    >>QUOTE!<<<!Since last july there have been several cops, agents, prosecutors, judges and government official busted for child porn! Hmm I wonder if they think it should be more severe as far as punishments go than say many other crimes?
    !!>>>QUOTE<<<

    You also forgot to mention the very people that these laws are supposedly designed to protect...""""CHILDREN""""....there have been quite a few cases where children as young as 10-12 (I believe) have been victims of this witch-hunt. I mean..ok..they were caught downloading childporn, although Im not sure of exactly what they had on their computers and I'll probably never know..but I can only assume that they were images of children not much older or younger than themselves in sexual situations maybe? or just nude? or at worst being seriously abused by some male or female<<YES..females are just as capable. People go on about how children cannot be held responsible for their actions for being so young..or are not old enough to understand this and that about sex or make sexual decisions etc..so why do they get put on the sex offenders register, and have it spread all over the media when it happenens and probably punished in one way or the other and labelled a paedophile for the rest of thier lives when their only real crime was to explore their own natural sexual curiosities which were definately normal and natural for their age..jeez..we were all kids once.....it makes me angry really..its not only paedo's who are a danger to children..its societies attitude as a whole who are the biggest fucker-uppers of childrens lives..imo

    I do have pretty strong feelings on this subject myself most are in agreement with Nunya1.

    Someone mentioned about the FBI and the like, having some sort of internal watchdog, and I couldn't agree with that idea more. I've always questioned why the authorities are so concerned with the people who merely look for childporn and not the perpertrators of the actual crimes that have been commited within those images (i'm not saying that they dont..it just seems that the focus is more in the people seeking the stuff).... when a computer is seized someone has to scan through the images for evidence and whos to say that the people who scan for evidence aren't just as guilty in their sexual feelings as the person who's computer they seized? Where humans and morality are concerned..I trust no man and no woman because in my experience in all my 38 years, the one whos always been quick to 'cast the first stone' or had the biggest mouth etc, has nearly always been the one with the most to hide and this was further proven to me recently when a pub landlord in my local area was convicted of childporn on his computer during this "project ore"?? (not sure if thats what its called) investigation. I knew the guy but not too well but he was definately the "paedophiles should have their balls chopped off" type of guy. Anyone can say how much they hate childporn or what they would do to paedo's etc...but no one actually knows whats going on in anyones mind..no one knows peoples true thoughts.

    Oh yea..the "rotten" site that was mentioned by Nunya1...theres another one which I'm not going to advertise. One thing about these sites...if a picture is posted of a naked child of say 6-13 maybe, male or female..just naked..nothing else..you always get the cries of "child porn...kill kill kill"...etc BUT...and I've seen this quite a few times...if they show a picture of a dead naked child then the threads go the opposite way.."wow great post..thanks...well done"...etc etc....hmmm!!


    Hypocrisy at its finest..what more can I say??

    9.8.2004 19:27 #49

  • Nunya1

    mart mart....
    This whole internet control thing that alot of governments have began to undertake is all just a bunch of shit. I can tell you 1 man who has pushed for 20 some years here in america to get this witch hunt going and has even gotten acceptance into our congress` eye and isnt even a fucking politician ..his name is JOHN WALSH. He is not totally to blame because here in the US society believes anthing and almost everything they see on TV is what is real to them and when you have some prick on TV running around telling everyone that even people who look at child porn is a molester a pedophile or a god damn monster they believe it.Society is to blame, we elect our officials and we allow them to peruse frivilous shit like CP and we allow them to go way way over board with punishments for it and not enough people have the guts or balls if you will to stand up and say this is wrong. So, what we get is a bunch or cowards and cowardess` who sit back and condemn people and they dont even know what the real truth is and so laws continue to get worse. NO ONE deserves to go to prison for looking at pictures of other peoples crime scenes...and that if you look honestly is the bottom fucking line and is the gist of it. I almost am to the point of wanting to move out of the land of the free ..the home of the brave and the manufacturer of this ignorant hysteria.

    1 other thing as food 4 thought..the US Government has just started another internet operation...to prosecute online obscenity,,now what the fuck is this? Who the hell can say with is obscene...what I might consider as obscene may not be to you...this is becoming a total loss of common sense on the US Governments case...What the hell has happening here?

    10.8.2004 08:27 #50

  • john179

    Nunya1 i think your missing the point here Quote:NO ONE deserves to go to prison for looking at pictures of other peoples crime scenesIn a reasonable society i would class this sick to look at this sort of crime.You have to ask yourself the question why people look at these crimes.It is not for fun as there is no fun in seeing any child treated this way.If someone accidently was directed to a site of this nature and turned it off in discussed is another thing.No crime has been committed and no action should be taken.But the sick individuals who seek this material out for there own personal use and as these sick gets would say personal pleasure lock them up.These people are as bad as those who committed the crime becuase they see nothing wrong in it and probably wish they were there when the crime was committed so they could get involved.Yes sure we all see some sort of crime on the news or where ever else from time to time.But we do not agree with it most normal people condem it.Anyone who spends much of there time looking and downloading materials of this nature deserve to be locked up in a safe pace out of the way of innocent childrens reach.I also don't go for the bull shit of these guys will not offend again on release becuase they will.I believe i seen one instance on the news where a guy was locked up and on his release he wanted to move to a country where the law was not strict on these crimes.He was only looking and downloading and claimed is innosence in court before being sentenced.Lock them all up and throw away the key is the only solution really available in a law abinding country may allow us to do if this continues.
    Goverments around the world should stop pussy footing around these people like it is some kind of illness and just hit them with real hard sentances which for me would mean life for them who committ the crime.I would go for the 2 strike rule for those caught perving over it which would be a long sentance for the first time and for a second time life and life should mean life.
    John179
    Ps as i said in a earlier post i just wish there was a jarassic park we could send them to this would be much better.

    Anything dodgy and your off down the station

    John179
    Asus A7V8X-X XP2800+,2x120gb,1Gig Ram
    Ati 128mb Graphics 2 x dvd Lite-on 411S NEC 2510A
    os windows x

    10.8.2004 09:36 #51

  • MartMart

    Hiya nunya1

    This whole internet control thing that alot of governments have began to undertake is all just a bunch of shit.
    yep...totally agree..the key word here is "control"..thats what all govs. want and they wont be happy until technology is such that they can just inject some nanobot thing into your brain and scan your thoughts..I'm sure "thoughts" will be illegal by then tho.. if not already.

    here in the US society believes anthing and almost everything they see on TV is what is real to them and when you have some prick on TV running around telling everyone that even people who look at child porn is a molester a pedophile or a god damn monster they believe it
    Its just as bad here in the uk..believe me

    Society is to blame, we elect our officials and we allow them to peruse frivilous shit like CP and we allow them to go way way over board with punishments for it and not enough people have the guts or balls if you will to stand up and say this is wrong.
    Because most people want to be seen to be totally against CP which I understand and can't really blame them for not wanting to have the shit beaten out of them or have vigilante groups hunting them down for APPEARING to be pro CP...some people are so dumb that that that is exactly how they would see someone...perfect example of the dumbness of these vigilantes...here in the UK a couple of years ago, there was a 'name and shame' policy in the media for internet paedophiles..as a result the vigilante groups came out to play but not only did the stupid bastards beat up the wrong people (seeing someones face in the newspaper and going for the one who looked the most like him) but they also saw a sign on the door of a building "PAEDIATRICIAN" and attacked him thinking that he was a paedophile. Thats the mentality of these people!

    NO ONE deserves to go to prison for looking at pictures of other peoples crime scenes"
    Totally agree..

    "I almost am to the point of wanting to move out of the land of the free ..the home of the brave and the manufacturer of this ignorant hysteria"
    hmm...not many places left to go to then really..definately stay away from the UK cos its just as bad here imo

    "1 other thing as food 4 thought..the US Government has just started another internet operation...to prosecute online obscenity,,now what the fuck is this? Who the hell can say with is obscene...what I might consider as obscene may not be to you...this is becoming a total loss of common sense on the US Governments case...What the hell has happening here? "

    Big Brother is watching you !!


    10.8.2004 10:09 #52

  • Nunya1

    John...
    So what youre saying is that its OK for a government to persecute someone for looking at what another person has done? Is this correct? How can anyone say its correct or right for anyone to be held accountable for the actions of another person? If thats what you truely believe maybe you should consider resorting back to the days of the middle ages and start condemning people without 1st educating yourself as to what, where, when and why these people do these things. Have you not read what an affluent group od psyciatrists are saying about pedophilia, its similar to someone who is gay, do you also condemn them? Its who they are and as long as a person doesnt "ACT" on what they think how can any crime be commited? Being in possesion of CP does NOT make a person a pedophile just like someone who has pictures of a murder scene doesnt make them a muderer now does it? Make no mistake..i truely believe that the people making CP should be imprisoned because they have taken advantage of a child but lets get real here, just having pictures of what another has done should not be a criminal act period.If you want to call that reasonable thinking go right ahead, your entitled to your opinion and everyone has one just like everyone has an ass ...some just stink more than others , is that criminal as well? What it all boils down too is theres is a tremendous difference between looking and thinking and actually "ACTING" upon it.Please do yourself and everyone else who has an opinion on this issue, educate yourself on it more before you quickly jump the gun and condemn anyone, that in itself is "Reasonable" in any society. Ask yourself this, would you still think it was "just" if someone close to you got caught up in this "Witch Hunt" and was harrassed by your law enforcement people? Lets say..your son, your brother, your best friend, your wife? Even though they never directly or physically touched anyone inappropriately and was sent to prison? I think that maybe you would be singing a whole different tune, but then again the laws are primitive and unjust because its "Mob Rules" and there are more people who think the same way as you do and not enough people to stand up and speak out for the Innocent or not so Innocent ones who got caught up in this. We do not need to be dropping Atomic Bombs when we are trying to swat flies.
    If you really wanna know what we "the US Government" thinks about children...ask all the parents of the children who our government has killed in Iraq, do you think they really give a rats ass what happens to them, but yet they declare war on people here for looking at pictures and not going after the manufacturers of child porn. nIt makes no sense at all.
    Oh yeah, "big brother" hasnt taken away my right to speak or protest what i believe in yet so he can watch all he likes and I hope he hates the taste i leave in his mouth!
    Have a nice day!!

    10.8.2004 10:53 #53

  • MartMart

    Quote:In a reasonable society i would class this sick to look at this sort of crime.You have to ask yourself the question why people look at these crimes What exactly would you class a reasonably society? In my location I see nothing but violence and hate, mugging, drugs, racial hate and racial violence and my area is considered relatively tame compared to other areas in the uk..whatever reason a person is bashing his bishop over some kiddy porn, whatever reason in their childhoods (yes they too were once children) that lead them to have those feelings then as long as his sexual release through these images keeps him away from kids on the street and ultimatly safe..then I can live with that even if it is a sick thing to do. One of the biggest dangers to kids imo is sexual repression...very dangerous and as far as I'm concerned is one of the reasons why so many kids are abused or if not abused themselves go on to abuse in adult hood. We have far too much censorship..too much control of what we can and cant see..even a womans fuckin nipple is blurred out if its shown before a certain time in the evening..sometimes even after the so-called "watershed" If its not blurred out u get maybe 50 people in a population of about 60 million? in the uk..usually some 200 year old granny complaining about the discusting content on tv and should be stopped./.blah blah blah....


    Quote:It is not for fun as there is no fun in seeing any child treated this way. Totally agree but who are you to judge as to the reason why they did actually download the porn..after all..the authorities look for porn on peoples computers all the time..like I said in an earlier post...whos to say that they dont have similar thoughts to the people they caught downloading KP and who are they to judge a person based on what they found on someones computer? Talking of "judges"..how many judges have been caught doing this so-called "crime" and how many people have these so-called "judges" sent to prison for doing the same thing??

    There are people sitting at home terrified at this moment because of these investigations that are going on...waiting for that knock on the door..some have commited suicide as a result of these investigations...some are as guilty as sin itself but others are only guilty of mere curiosity and a moment of sexual weakness in the "privacy" of their own homes, something which we're all capable of.
    Quote:If someone accidently was directed to a site of this nature and turned it off in discussed is another thing, No crime has been committed and no action should be taken
    No its not another thing...in the eyes of the law he HAS commited a crime. If you actually went to this persons house and accidently found any images that he'd accidently downloaded and turned off in disgust and you were so angered you beat him up then went to the police who would then scan his computer..find the images, hed get prosecuted, put on the sex offenders register and then get perscuted and labelled for the rest of his life...I think this is on of the main points that nunya1 is trying to make.


    Quote:But the sick individuals who seek this material out for there own personal use and as these sick gets would say personal pleasure lock them up you said the key word there "own personal pleasure". If looking at these pictures keeps them off the streets away from kids then I say let him get on with it and bash away to his hearts content. Right or wrong they;re not actually hurting anyone


    Quote:These people are as bad as those who committed the crime becuase they see nothing wrong in it and probably wish they were there when the crime was committed so they could get involved So everyone who goes to these gore sites or sees murdered people on the streets are as bad as the murderers themselves? Those people who view the gore sites actually enjoy seeing the splatter mutilated bodies..are they just as bad as the murderers themselves? should they go to prison for murder just cos they saw a picture of a sick crime?


    Everything you said basically I disagree with but thats not to say I dont understand your feelings about it..it is a touchy subject for people..especially those who have actually been on the receiving end of sexual abuse and I fully understand their feelings but the whole issue as far as I'm concerned is not about the actual abuse thats taken place in the images but the moments of weakness and sexual curiosity of some of these individuals who just wanted to see the images in the privacy of their own homes without actually hurting anyone in the process and as a Nunya1 says..the whole thing is way out of control now and far too much of a witch-hunt and what the authorities should really be doing is seeking ways to get these kiddie porn sites off the internet altogether.

    10.8.2004 10:59 #54

  • john179

    I tend to disagree with you both on most points.Its wrong to look at stuff like this even if there not committing the crime it is still a crime.Because it should not have took place in the first place.I tend to believe with the most of the population it should be banned full stop and all brought to justice.This sort of material is taken and watched without the consent of a adult.Ok man you have a kid you find out he has been sexually abused would you want your kids pictures pasted over the internet so some pervet can get off on it.What about the victim do they want some sick get pulling there plonker on a image of them no i do not think so.
    It is wrong wrong wrong and it should not happen however you dress it up.Yes some of these sick gets could have been victims there self and have problems.But just becuase you have been a victim i does not give you the god given right to exploit others later in life in any shape or form.My peronal opinion as it is all going to far now.We need to clamp down on it and get rid of it full stop becuase to many injured children are now appearing.We should give all the support to these children to ensure they do not become the people committing these crimes.Yes some of these who committ crimes did not get the support as vitims in the earlier days.But we have to start somewhere and the hard approach is the correct way.People have been warned and if they have a problem and come forward and say look mate ive a problem i need help.My respect to them as are trying to tackle it by seeking help.We all know what is right and what is wrong what ever walk of life we come from and this is most definetly wrong.
    John179

    Anything dodgy and your off down the station

    John179
    Asus A7V8X-X XP2800+,2x120gb,1Gig Ram
    Ati 128mb Graphics 2 x dvd Lite-on 411S NEC 2510A
    os windows x

    10.8.2004 11:51 #55

  • MartMart

    John..neither nunya1 nor I are saying that we condone child porn. Well I can only speak for myself obviously but I'm sure nunya1 definately does not condone it. For the authorities to keep looking for people who download childporn is like flogging a dead horse..u cant stop a waterfall by catching the droplets, you have to build a dam and imo this is what needs to be done...stop it at the source...not follow it to its destination. I believe theres a lot more of a chance of stopping internet child porn this way than simply looking for people who downloaded it..even tho I feel the chances of total eradicating it are pretty slim.

    As for people who do download it..I cant change your opinion and I respect your opinion even tho I dont agree with it..but consider this...like many people on these forums I like pornography, I dont always look for it, but I know its available for me when I want it. Now..the fact that I've downloaded pornography (and I stress..not child porn)
    does not mean I'm going to go out and rape women...I'm sexually attracted to females, does not mean I am a rapist and I'm going to rape the first woman I see alone, ..does not mean that women are not safe in my company..infact I've been around many women alone..relatives, wives of my friends, cousins and most of em are quite to very attractive. I'm sure you like women too, or maybe men? which is also fine if thats the case..I dont know your sexual preferences but whatever the case it doesn't mean that women (or men) are unsafe in your company does it? but the attraction is still there.. If you are actually saying that every person who views kiddy porn on the internet or videos is a child molestor and will molest any child they see then you are also saying that everyone who sees general pornography on the internet is going to rape the first woman they come to and thats total bullshit..I'm not saying that people who look at child porn do not go out and molest children as I'm sure this does happen at times but so does rape of women. Like nunya1 says...most of these people are only guilty of thoughts and not necessarily guilty of the temptation take action on their thoughts. And all of us have probably been guilty of thoughts we shouldn't have at some points in our lives..I know I have.

    10.8.2004 13:05 #56

  • Nunya1

    well john, you wanted it and now youre gunna hear it...I WAS AT THE AGE OF 15 THE "VICTIM" OF A CHILD PORNOGRAPHER" and you know what, He was sentenced to 6 years in prison and heres the best part ...my part...I dont hate him or loath him and looking back on it I dont feel he desverved to be put in Jail he needed help, plain and simple, and as far as other people looking at it and getting "pleasure" from it...I DONT give a shit. How can anyone condemn anyone for being who they are. You dont condemn gay people for being gay, you dont condemn people who are born with multiple sclirosis ..its who they are , thats the way they are made ,its the way they are wired. Its a fucking "Witch Hunt" and its a terrible waste of people, the kids, the offenders, law enforcement, and thats not to mention tax payers money. To kill a disease you go to the source you dont cut off the finger of a person because they have a hang nail do you? No You cut the hang nail off. Do you know it costs about $30,000 a year to keep someone in prison in the US ...why...why I ask you would you want to shell out that kind of money to lock up someone who is absolutely no threat to anyone?
    Now back to my offender..He killed his self in jail. do you think that He deserved a Death sentence..i dont!And Yes at 15 I knew exctly what I was doing. 15 is Child Porn. Once again heres an article that would like for you to read.....
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/926810/posts
    please read it!

    10.8.2004 13:41 #57

  • stasha1

    I think the age thing there, which is 18 now, should be changed from 18 to 14, what do you think?
    I think these days we are all pretty much adults after the age of 14.If I was in charge of changing that law I would.And you really can't consider anything to be CP unless that person is pretty much under the age of 11 or 12 these days? I mean, what is it that makes kiddy porn exciting to people and makes there pee pee go BOING! What is the age threshold? This is the real question.

    10.8.2004 15:31 #58

  • Nunya1

    more food 4 thought stasha1....Im not sure what it is now but up until the early 1980`s a person in many states could marry at the age of 11 without consent. Now youre not going to tell me that these young people didnt go home and commence to banging away with thier new spouse as soon as they hit the front door! Why then in todays world which is split on this issue so extremely should it be Illegal for them to take pictures of thier sexual activities without being thrown into prisons. Every single person in this world is a sexual being and for so many bible thumping,uptight,asses in governments all around the globe to sit on thier high horses and try to tell everyone what age they should be to consent to sex is a load of crap. I honestly believe that the same bible thumpers would agree that even at a very young age they allow thier children to decide for themselves wether or not they want to attend church (which is all about values and morals) why then cant they be able to decide about sex?This is in a time of our parents and grandparents people to whom i think most of us consider the authorities in our lifes and the teachers of our own personal values. Now everything is clouded by what we see and hear on TV , on the radio, and in our newspapers and we arent allowed to decide for ourselves. Its GOVERNMENT CONTROL!!!!!!!I dont know about you but I dont need a babysitter to tell me when, where, or with whom I choose to make love too and I dont need them telling me that I cant look at certain things.

    I wish more people would get involved in this discussion because its very eye opening dont you think?

    10.8.2004 16:21 #59

  • john179

    stasha1 i tend to agree with this one as kids grow up quicker now so this should be taken in to count.We should not make them feel they are not doing something wrong and we should understand a little more.I don't believe in child porn and all that just my opinion.However we need to start to reconize an age of consent where a person is fully aware of there actions.I think if we did this there may not be as many young teenagers getting pregnant because birth control is a no no until 16.Most people consent to sex in there life under the legal age these days and they are aware of the risk's so 14 would be a good age to look at but not below this age.
    John179
    John179

    Anything dodgy and your off down the station

    John179
    Asus A7V8X-X XP2800+,2x120gb,1Gig Ram
    Ati 128mb Graphics 2 x dvd Lite-on 411S NEC 2510A
    os windows x

    11.8.2004 08:23 #60

  • Nunya1

    wow...
    John, we actually agree on something? This is too cool! I also agree the age of consent should be lowered but I think lower than 14 because I think and research has shown that young people are starting on avergae at the age of 13 or so. I just read my local newspaper and the headlines talk about a 12 year old girl who live here went with her "boyfriend" and spent the night with him. She had sex with him! The next morning he took her home to find the Police there waiting for them, He`s 29 and she told the Police that she loves him and that she spent the night with him! Now Hes faceing Statutory Rape charges! This is not fair in my opinion because the Girl knowingly went with him for the sinlge purpose of having sex with him. Now this poor guy is gunna end up in prison all because he made it with his girlfriend. Another American Injustice in the works!

    11.8.2004 10:47 #61

  • Shan1225

    Well, I have to say I too was a victim of Sexual Abuse, Physical Abuse and Emotional Abuse. I am also the mother of 2 beautiful girls. And all I can say about Abuse is it is a viscious cycle and the fact that it is allowed to continue is very sick. How is it that you know thee people have not offended. You can know someone for your enitre life and find out they are a addict of some kind and never have known it previously. That does not mean they weren't that means that were good at covering it up for years. Child Abuse is not that you find a child attractive it is about POWER over another human being. Spousal Abusers are not abusive because they find smacking their wife or husband around is attractive they do it to make themselves more powerful. And, what do we do as a society if we say okay well, you can look at chold pornography that is fine and dandy and then when the person does not get their kicks off that they do go and offend then when they do get into the court they get off the charge because we as a society lowered our standards and morals and made it okay for them. Whether, they are at this moment viewing it and not offending there is not guarentee or timeline as to when just looking at it is not enough. Most sex offenders start viewing pornography and it is not only child pornography it is all pornography. And, as far as I am concerned you nip the problem while you still can. If it were up to me Chemical Castration would be the sentence of every sex offender whether it be child or not. No person should say it is right to diminish a persons worth to keep another person from being safe obiviously if they are looking at these pictures they need help. And, what I believe by help is instead of getting prisons Cable TV and other forms of Entertainment they need to spend more money on getting these peopel the counseling they need and if they cannot be counseled then they need to stay where they are. How can someone say the innocence and purity of even one single child is not worth time in prison. Anyone who hurt either of my children would be praying for a prison sentence at least till I am no longer on this earth. How can you say that viewing child porn is going to keep them safely in their homes and not go out and offend and if we give up the laws we have on it now then there will be nothing to stop them in the long run and if that were to happen you might as well tell your children that at some point they will be harmed and there is nothing you can do about it. Why not just take these children to their houses and hand them over to them because in the long run it will happen anyway. And, to be honest I am not willing to hand my childs innocence over to anyone for any reason. For I pray that I do a better job for my children then what I had. You know there was a time in this country when abusing a child came under the same laws as abusing a animal. Childen and women were just property and from some of the posts I see here some wish it were that way again and that really makes me sad that people just view their children as property and just another thing to expoit. These men need to go out and get a freaking life and learn how to get a woman and quit preying on the children of this world.

    12.8.2004 02:28 #62

  • MartMart

    Quote: Well, I have to say I too was a victim of Sexual Abuse, Physical Abuse and Emotional Abuse. I am also the mother of 2 beautiful girls. And all I can say about Abuse is it is a viscious cycle and the fact that it is allowed to continue is very sick.
    Fisrtly..Im sorry to read of your abuse-as a child? I hope you came to, or can eventually come to terms with it. Secondly...you say its a vicious cycle...by that I guess you mean that a child who is abused will go on to abuse in adulthood? then why are you not abusing your own children or other children...I know why..because you are talking about abused BOYS growing up to be abusers. I've head it all before...women seem to think that women are not part of this cycle and that its only men who grow up to abuse and that is TOTAL bullshit..women are JUST as capable as men of abusing children and it is TOTALLY unfair and ABSOULTE bullshit to suggest that everyone..nay,,,every MAN who is abused will go on to abuse.

    Quote: You can know someone for your enitre life and find out they are a addict of some kind and never have known it previously. That does not mean they weren't that means that were good at covering it up for years.doesn't necessarily mean that that person is a bad person..obviously depends on what that person is addicted to..your generalising here so what you said could mean anything.

    Quote: Child Abuse is not that you find a child attractive it is about POWER over another human being. Spousal Abusers are not abusive because they find smacking their wife or husband around is attractive they do it to make themselves more powerfulno no no no....ok yes..there is an element of power in the whole abuse thing but abuse comes in many forms and "power" being a reason for abuse is just scratching the surface
    Quote: And, what do we do as a society if we say okay well, you can look at child pornography that is fine and dandy and then when the person does not get their kicks off that they do go and offend then when they do get into the court they get off the charge because we as a society lowered our standards and morals and made it okay for them.no one has ever said its ok to look at child pornography and as I said in one of my previous posts..yes..it may well be that in some cases people who view child pornography may go out and offend against a child, just as someone who views adult pornography may go out and rape...just as someone who watches violent films or video games may go out and murder.
    Quote: Most sex offenders start viewing pornography and it is not only child pornography it is all pornography.May well be the case BUT again..your talking of a minority....the majority of the country watch pornography in some form or other, be it videos, dvd's, mags, etc ...but you cannot blame the viewing of pornography as a reason they go out and offend...pornography is merely a tool to aid in their sexual outlet. If they dont have porn, they're probably fantasising about sex anyway....and personally I prefer looking at porn than fantasising..its easier

    Quote:If it were up to me Chemical Castration would be the sentence of every sex offender whether it be child or not"be it child or not??" just another example of the hypocrisy thats around...you would happily see a child castrated for sexual abuse?? then you are no better than the person who abused you I'm afraid...suppose it was one of your daughters who offended? or another child member of your family who you may love dearly?

    Quote: No person should say it is right to diminish a persons worth to keep another person from being safe obiviously if they are looking at these pictures they need help. And, what I believe by help is instead of getting prisons Cable TV and other forms of Entertainment they need to spend more money on getting these peopel the counseling they need and if they cannot be counseled then they need to stay where they are. How can someone say the innocence and purity of even one single child is not worth time in prison. Your talking of 2 different things here...viewing child porn images and abusing children....as I said in one of my previous post..I like pornography..I like seeing films of people enjoying eachothers bodies, especially lesbians :-))))) ..it doesn't mean I'm going to go out and rape someone as a result. Same with people who view child porn..same with watching violent films or playing violent games..etc..I went to a gore site that I usually visit yesterday and there was a new picture posted of a 12yo boy who was run over by a van..his head was splattered in the road, brain hanging out..his leg was folded across his back.,...the genral attitude of the people in that place was how it served the stupid fucker gith for using a mobile phone whilst riding..there was not one ounce of compassion for that child...yet..if he'd been naked the whole forum would've been screaming "CHILD PORN>.GET IT OFF...REPORT THE SICKO'S FOR POSTING"...<<etc and I've seen that very thing happen.

    Quote: ..How can you say that viewing child porn is going to keep them safely in their homes and not go out and offend How can you say it isn't going to keep them safe in their homes and not go out and offend...again..if you believe that people who view child porn are going to go out and offend..then you are saying the same about people who view any sort of porn..in other words..your saying that I and probably most people on these forums are rapists because they like porn.
    Quote: and if we give up the laws we have on it now then there will be nothing to stop them in the long run and if that were to happen you might as well tell your children that at some point they will be harmed and there is nothing you can do about it.1. There are already laws...laws have NEVER been a detterent in anything. the threat of hanging never deterred people from commiting crimes and it was only because of a case where someone was wrongly hanged that hanging was abolished in the 60's? (I think)

    2. You'll always have to tell your children that they will be hamred in some way if they're not careful..thats part of life...kids get killed on the roads every day..its a sad fact of life that no one is truly safe on the streets
    Quote: Why not just take these children to their houses and hand them over to them because in the long run it will happen anyway. And, to be honest I am not willing to hand my childs innocence over to anyone for any reason.So why not just push the children on the motorway to get run over cos as u say, it'll happen anyway some day. Kids are more in danger of the roads than anything else and whilst your there teaching your kids about the dangers of talking to strangers (and rightly so) your not teaching em how to do simple things like crossing the raod safely..Its up to YOU as a parents to see that your children are safe from ALL dangers in life




    Quote: Childen and women were just property and from some of the posts I see here some wish it were that way again and that really makes me sad that people just view their children as property and just another thing to expoit.There is not one message in this thread that has made me think that anyone sees children as property or sources of sexual desire...not one person here has condoned the abuse of any child what-so-ever. What some were saying was that merely looking at children in an image is NOT harming a child...the actual harm to the child has already been done WITHIN those images (depending on the images ofcourse) and then the topic went slightly off onto the subject of "age of consent" and some were saying 13 or 14 would be a suitable age for them to enjoy their sexual needs without fear of being made a criminal by these fucked up hypocritcal laws.



    Quote:
    These men need to go out and get a freaking life and learn how to get a woman and quit preying on the children of this world    Hehe..thought so...everything you said above was referring to MEN only....women are sooooo innocent arent they???...let me tell you...women are just as capable of raping men, and little boys and girls ......women are just as capable of downloading and viewing childporn..and I know all of this for a fact

    Quote: No person should say it is right to diminish a persons worth to keep another person from being safe obiviously if they are looking at these pictures they need help. And, what I believe by help is instead of getting prisons Cable TV and other forms of Entertainment they need to spend more money on getting these peopel the counseling they need and if they cannot be counseled then they need to stay where they are. How can someone say the innocence and purity of even one single child is not worth time in prison. Your talking of 2 different things here...viewing child porn images and abusing children....as I said in one of my previous post..I like pornography..I like seeing films of people enjoying eachothers bodies, especially lesbians :-))))) ..it doesn't mean I'm going to go out and rape someone as a result. Same with people who view child porn..same with watching violent films or playing violent games..etc..I went to a gore site that I usually visit yesterday and there was a new picture posted of a 12yo boy who was run over by a van..his head was splattered in the road, brain hanging out..his leg was folded across his back.,...the genral attitude of the people in that place was how it served the stupid fucker right for using a mobile phone whilst riding..there was not one ounce of compassion for that child...yet..if he'd been naked the whole forum would've been screaming "CHILD PORN>.GET IT OFF...REPORT THE SICKO'S FOR POSTING"...<<etc and I've seen that very thing happen.



    Quote: ..How can you say that viewing child porn is going to keep them safely in their homes and not go out and offend How can you say it isn't going to keep them safe in their homes and not go out and offend...again..if you believe that people who view child porn are going to go out and offend..then you are saying the same about people who view any sort of porn..in other words..your saying that I and probably most people on these forums are rapists because they like porn.


    Quote: and if we give up the laws we have on it now then there will be nothing to stop them in the long run and if that were to happen you might as well tell your children that at some point they will be harmed and there is nothing you can do about it.1. There are already laws...laws have NEVER been a detterent in anything. the threat of hanging never deterred people from commiting crimes and it was only because of a case where someone was wrongly hanged that hanging was abolished in the 60's? (I think)

    2. You'll always have to tell your children that they will be hamred in some way if they're not careful..thats part of life...kids get killed on the roads every day..its a sad fact of life that no one is truly safe on the streets
    Quote: Why not just take these children to their houses and hand them over to them because in the long run it will happen anyway. And, to be honest I am not willing to hand my childs innocence over to anyone for any reason.So why not just push the children on the motorway to get run over cos as u say, it'll happen anyway some day. Kids are more in danger of the roads than anything else and whilst your there teaching your kids about the dangers of talking to strangers (and rightly so) your not teaching em how to do simple things like crossing the raod safely..Its up to YOU as a parents to see that your children are safe from ALL dangers in life




    Quote: Childen and women were just property and from some of the posts I see here some wish it were that way again and that really makes me sad that people just view their children as property and just another thing to expoit.There is not one message in this thread that has made me think that anyone sees children as property or sources of sexual desire...not one person here has condoned the abuse of any child what-so-ever. What some were saying was that merely looking at children in an image is NOT harming a child...the actual harm to the child has already been done WITHIN those images (depending on the images ofcourse) and then the topic went slightly off onto the subject of "age of consent" and some were saying 13 or 14 would be a suitable age for them to enjoy their sexual needs without fear of being made a criminal by these fucked up hypocritcal laws.



    Quote:
    These men need to go out and get a freaking life and learn how to get a woman and quit preying on the children of this world    Hehe..thought so...everything you said above was referring to MEN only....women are sooooo innocent arent they???...let me tell you...women are just as capable of raping men, and little boys and girls ......women are just as capable of downloading and viewing childporn..and I know all of this for a fact

    12.8.2004 04:49 #63

  • Nunya1

    shan...
    You said it in your own words..."these people need help" so why then do you condemn these people and say that castration and prison is the answer? 1 castration may detour thier actions but its never going to stop another one from doing it, my goodness we are talking about people and human sexuality here, and everyone i mean everyone is a sexual being its the single most important reason we all live, procreate! Yes some people do things that others dont like but its kind of like this, why should they be persecuted by laws when "they need help". im sure you probably like certain foods that other people do not like does that mean that you should be prosecuted for it, very few may not like it and youre not part of the majority so that makes you criminal??{i know thats a weak example but I think its get my point across}If you have a friend who is sick do you condemn them for having lets say AIDS..they got it from being gay! Do you condemn them because of the way they are made? We are all different does that mean the differences constitute totally destroying them and thier lives for being different? If we were all exactly the same this world would be very boring wouldnt it?
    Now the issue here isnt about abuse, its about people having thier lives totally destroyed for having and looking at pictures of children engeged in sexual activites on thier personal computers, in the privacy of thier own homes, behind closed doors.And the excessive punishments many of the worlds governments have put on them. Once again..NO ONE DESERVES TO GO TO PRISON FOR LOOKING OR HAVING OBJECTIONAL MATERIALS ON THIER COMPUTERS UNLESS THEY HAVE CREATED IT AND OR WERE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE CREATION OF IT!!!
    Is justice holding a person accountable for the creation of anothers persons actions..NO!!! It hypocrasy , lunacy, and is even more objectional than the actual images themselves.
    Do you think that if you had a friend who ended up having a problem with alcohol and got in an accident and killed someone as a direct result of his alcoholism it would be fair to throw the people who made the booze that he/she got drunk off of in prison?? NO, you go after the person who commited the "ACT" of getting behind the wheel and drove the car and inevitably crashed into another and killed them!The principles are the same all across the board be it drugs, alcohol, guns ect. You get the people who physically and directly "ACTED" upon the crimes, not the bystanders or "onlookers"! Right?!!In the US they appear to be doing exactly the opposite, they appear to be going after the "onlookers". they had made 6,611 arrests here since last july. take a look at this link http://www.ice.gov/graphics/ look at the section named "Statistics". It appears that collateral damage is ok to them! Well to me its not!

    12.8.2004 05:45 #64

  • Shan1225

    Okay first of all Mart I have been through many years of Therapy and recovery and coming to grips with my own life thank you for your concern on that. I have not abused my children because unlike others who have not seeked help for their abuse issues I did. Not all people who have been abused go out and offend I know not all who have been abused go on to offend. Now, I have spanked my children. However, I got away from doing that because it has caused more problems such as one child hits their sibling so what does the p2arent do they go in and hit the child who hit. Now, what did that parent just tech that child. That when you do something I don't like you are goign to get hit. Hmmm, seems to me it defeats the purpose. Same thing with Sexual Abuse many grow up thinking their only worth as a human being is for sex which then leads to many other problems. I know that women can be just as guilty as men my step father who abused me was abused by his mother. She used to take us through her house and show us where she put each of her kids heads through the wall she was very proud of it. So, yes I know women are just as likely as men however, I was not abused by a female I was abused by a male. So, sorry for the generalization women also should gt the help they need and get lives and quit preying on the childrenof our world. Now, being a victim of Child abuse I think if i were to search those sites and find pictures of myself being abused that would throw me right back into therapy and not only that but, I would be trying to get the pictures removed from the internet. Now, someone else may have been abused and instead of getting mad they feel their only worth is sex so they leave their pictures on the internet. How many times does the victim have to be victimized befoe enough is enough. Now, say your Girlfriend goes to a bar with her friends and gets totally trashed and goes into an alley to throw up and then gets raped and beaten and then the "offender" splashes the pictures all over the internet are you saying that you would want people to view that. No, if you love the person you would be trying to do what you had to do to protect her from that. It is no different with Child Porn or any porn that is not concential. A child does not have the mind set to consent to have their image splashed all over the internet. Hollywood stars who have made their own videos spend lots of money to get their videos off the internet and out of stores. Was it Paris Hilton's choice to diclose that video no she I am sure found out from someone else they were there. Now, say in 20 years when these children grow up they have been to therapy go to college and build their life in a productive way. They get a job and the next thing you know some co worker who has found the pictures starts putting them up all over work. Are you goign to say that is not going to affect the Victim in some way. And to be quite blunt about it if you get the ones who are looking at it then the people making it will have no reason too put it up. Then my children would not have to be so careful about how they worded their searches to find something that should just be simple. You can put in your search something as simple as White House and get all kinds of porn listings. So, yes I do help my children with their searches and I view every site before I let them look at it. I do not think that is censoring them I think that is protecting their innocence for as long as I can. If you are too open about sex that leads to problems just as much if you are to rigid around sex. So, you have to decide for you and your kids what they need to know now and what can wait till they have the compacity to understand. And, not all children view sex as a loving thing. Many children who have walked in on their parents making love think that their father is hurting their mother or vice versa. For, the most part I have not told my children that no they cannot watch a movie because there is sex in it. I do view it first and if I think it is not too bad then I may decide it is okay for them to watch it if they want. I don't encourage them to watch them however either. And I guess that is what they are getting at with this too. No, they may have not put the porn there they may have not done the act themselves however they are also providing a market for it. It is the same in product distribution. Remember Crystal Pepsi I happened to very much like Crystal Pepsi however obviously not many people did for it is no longer sold. So should I sue Pepsi because they no longer sell a product that in my opinion was good just because obviously more than half of their market did not like it. No, I would be laughed out of the court that is what would happen in that case so when there was no more Crystal Pepsi I learned to live without it.

    12.8.2004 11:34 #65

  • Nunya1

    Shan...
    Heres another twist to legal issues involving kids. Why is it Ok for the U.S. Government to prosecute kids as young as 12 or 13 and sometimes as young as 11 as adults? They run them through a battery of mental health services and they most often than not deem them as capable enough to be tried convicted and sent to prison for thier crimes! I guess I am a creature of absolutes...when the written laws say that the american people have freedom of speech , expression, and to the press and...heres the "Key" to the 1st amendment...they shall never rewrite any law that takes that away! They did it, after 214 years the rewrote it for child porn and threats. Being an absolutist that means to me that the amendments are nothing but empty words and that the law makers can do anything they want...that puts them above the law, which is against the law!The worldwide accepted age of consent and legal age of adults is 18, now why then can they go and put little kids(as young as 11) in prisons if the legal age is 18? Theres too many fucked up twists to laws and thier is NO balance of Justice even though the american symbol for Justice is the scales! They are way..WAY off kilter!And Ive said this before, if you really think american beurocrats give a rats ass about kids, try asking all of the parents of the kids in Iraq who were killed by Americans. We went to war because Bush wanted us too not because we had too, none the less ask the Iraqi parents what they think of americas views on children!This is by no means a perfect world but when our Leaders, people we choose to run our countries compound issues that only make things harder on the citizens either morally, socially, economically, or even ethically is wrong wrong wrong!
    Back to the issues at hand "Child Porn" my opinion will not change, they are going after the wrong people, they need to go after the creators of it, not the consumers. And Mart Mart is correct...they will never get rid of it for 1 major reason, over 90% of it comes from Russia and the Ukraine and I dont believe that any country in the world has enough diplomatic sanctions with them to ever get them to work with them on this issue and they will not use up all those $millions of dollars to track, prosecute, and imprison these people when they have much much bigger problems to deal with.

    13.8.2004 05:29 #66

  • MartMart

    Nunya1

    It came to my attention last night that a few members including moderators have come to the conclusion that because of your views (which I mostly agree with) that you and I are sick perverted paedophiles who are in some way condoning and supporting paedophilia, childporn and underage sex.

    It just shows the mentality we have to put up with.

    I want to make it clear right now that I in no way what-so-ever condone or support any sort of sexual abuse of children, be it for pornographic purposes, sexual satisfaction, or any other reason that one might physically or sexually abuse a child.

    I wholeheartedly support anything done to STOP childporn but the situation at the moment is they';re not targetting the makers of childporn..they're targetting the users of childporn which will NEVER stop the flow of it and because of this the market for childporn will stay as strong as ever.

    13.8.2004 07:53 #67

  • Shan1225

    Nunya1.....I do agree that they need to go after the sources also but, what I am saying is the people who are looking at it are just as responsible. But, the thing is if you believe that such as you say it is coming from Foreign countries mostly then let me put this question on the table how do you expect that we as Americans can stop it. You obviously don't support the war in Iraq so war would not be the answer and most of those countries do not have as strict of laws as we do on Pornographic material and even Child Abuse therefore they may thinkit is perfectly natural. For many countries as the US did years ago still view their children and wife as property. And no I am not saying that youhave those views but, I have done may papers on child abuse and back when child abuse in this country was starting to come out in the open the laws for that they had none theyfell under laws for abusing or brutally killing an animal now how sad is tht for our country and even as early as the 1950's this was true the laws were just not as strict. Now, Child Protective Systems whatever they call it in wach state they swing on a very wide pendulum I have called child protective services many times for something I have seen that to me was abusive that to me is my responsibilty to any child in those situations and some have been somewhat minor to pretty major things and at times I think man they don't do anything to help those children and then others usually after some child has ended up dying and have come under criticizm it seems they are after everyone for the most minor of things. Now, as for the trying children as an adult I really have differing feelings on that and I am goign ot share those. At some point in our children's lives whether we were the most wonderful of parents or not they they even as children need to take responsibility for their actions and should have (if not from us) then from school and society learned right from wrong. Therefore if a child kills someone at the age of 13 or 14 and if in interviewing that child they knew what they did was wrong and yet chose to do it anyway then yes I agree they should be prosecuted as an adult. Do I think that if the 2 young people who shot up Columbine School had not committed suicide they should have been tried as adults Yes I do with all my heart I do. I think they should have to get life in prison with no chance to ever get out again. Did they give any of those people the choice of whether they wanted to die or leave the situation. No, they did not just take away their freedom for a few years they took it away forever. Punishment fits the crime. And in all actually I definately believe in the death penalty. Now, in the matter of children commiting sexual crimes and I a not just talking about against a child I am talking about anyone the family needs to be investigated also. A child does nt just wake up one day and say well I think I will be a sexual deviant and if the source of their abuse is disclosed that person needs to be just as responsible if not even more responsible for the crime they should try to save the child if they can yes but, the person who commited crimes against them should be held responsible for that and should be a co-defendant for that childs crimes. The problem with that is most people never even come out about it much less tell who did it. I went through the abuse for man years because i was told by my step father he would kill my mom and mybrothers if I did not do it. Many children choose to block it out completely and the only way it comes out is when they hit rock bottom and end up in therapy maybe even for something else all together. So, the thing is I have no idea how to run a government or make laws bu, I also can say that if it was not something they cracked down on more then I would have to leave the country because it is my rights to be Happy, Healthy , and Safe and I will fight for that no matter the cost.
    Now Mart I don't even know you or Nunya so I cannot say that you are perverts I am expressing my views and giving a little insight as to how I feel on the subject and though we have differing opinions does not mean that I do not respect your opinion that is the beautiful thing about being human beings we can have differing opinions and stil for the most part still live in the world together. So, I am not trying to say that you are wrong or I am right that is the way it is maybe I am wrong and you are right but, that does not mean I am going to give up the things I believe in. I am personally not a person who cares anything about Pornographic material that is just me that does not make me wrong and it does not make you wrong for enjoying it. That is the sad thing about humans is if someone reveals something they enjoy and someone else does not enjoy it they both seem to think they may be the strange one. I have personally seen people who use pornographic material to inhance their sex lives and I have seen pornographic material tear families and marriages apart. Pornographic material is not a necessity in life as far as I am concerned and does nothing one way or the other for my libido No Biggie I just don't buy it then. I just wanted you to know I still respect you as a human being no matter our differences.
    So while I do believe that they need to go after the source (maybe we should discuss maybe things they should do to do that?) I also believe that the people who are seeking it out need some kind of punishment for it because whether people agree with the law or not it is still a law and obviously more do agree than don't in the law or there would not be a law.

    13.8.2004 10:10 #68

  • MartMart

    Hiya Shan...I'm sorry..I wasnt actually referring to you in my previous post :-)

    13.8.2004 10:41 #69

  • Nunya1

    Ok, so I am a sick perverted sexual deviant...is this what the moderators think? I can see how what I have said can be viewed that way but 1st...Im not..i dont condone child pornography , and 2 i should expect close minded people to misinterpret what anyone and everyone says. I guess they have been trained to think this way by society. This is exactly what I should expect.Its just like racial predjudice and its just like I have said people fear or hate what they do not understand and/or refuse to look at open minded. I thought this was the information age, well along with information comes intelligence but it seems to lack common sense. This is not the dark ages and we should not target people to destroy them because of our own personal predjudices. This is precisely why I call the "Operation Predator" that the the U.S. government has embarked on a "Witch Hunt". They have ruined too many peoples lives because of the objectional materials that some people have on thier computers.
    I want to make this very clear to all of you who have deemed me as a sexual deviant or a pedophile. I DO NOT CONDONE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.But I strongly feel that too many governments are severely mishandling the attempt to irradicate it.And too many people have become collateral damage to this Witch Hunt and there is absolutely no justice in that. There are other ways of dealing with the irradication of child porn and the way they are doing it isnt fair by any means.
    I read somewhere that the Uk has considered and amnesty program for people who have CP on thier computers. Its very similar to what America did a few years back with Guns (Oh, in case any of you didnt know guns KILL people, pictures dont)
    The program allows people who have Cp on thier computers to turn in thier PC`s and go thru whatever therapy the government deems appropriate and they will not prosecute them for it. This is how I feel it should be handled and not like this..boom you have it on your comp, youre going to prison , no if`s and`s or but`s your going, and were going to make you register as a sex offender whether or not you have physically touched anyone and we are going to splatter your name and face all over the media for all to see what we have done to you and after all that were going to leave this conviction on your criminal record forever which will deny you any opportunity to ever be an asset to your communities and will bar you from making a decent living in the working world. you will be condemned to a life of poverty and thus it will put you into a position of which you will probably resort to a life of crime just to survive.

    Is that Justice???? Hell no it isnt, They dont even treat Murderers, bank robbers, drug dealers, or rapists that bad...and all this because the have pictures that many dont like on thier computers!!
    Thats not justice..is it?
    And to all you moderators thats think Im sick and twisted I will repeat myself once again, I DO NOT CONDONE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND i AM NOT S CIK PERVERT what I am is a friend of a person who has had his life totally destroyed by the government mishandling of this issue and thier harrassments. I think its bullshit. If anyone in here believes that I am so be it, but the simple truth is I just a man who has sat back watched and listened to the law makers, tv perosnalities, and the average joes out there for 39 years seem to get more and more ridiculous with thier approaches to too many things that can be handled sensibly and it pisses me off. theres many things i feel have been handled past the point of being sensible (ignorant if you will) Mandatory minimums, war, Drug laws in the US that are as fucked up as the CP laws ( NO ONE DESERVES A LIFE SENTENCE OR DEATH FOR SELLING DRUGS) Health Care issues, nd the list goes on....the world doesnt have to be as messed up as it is and wouldnt be if we all execised common sense..does anyone know the 10 commandments? They are the foundation to sensible ways of socially governing our countries.

    13.8.2004 11:35 #70

  • Shan1225

    Okay Nunya I am not starting to understand you a bit more. However, in some of your esrlier posts it sounded as if they you were saying that having CP on your computer is not to be of concern to the government or to the people who are surrounded by them. First, of all I am sorry for your friend it seems he is going to be made an example of and that is sad however, it happens on more than one occasion. However, I don't think that your friend is right either and maybe you should send your concerns to your congressman and senators for really that is really the only place that our concerns will be heard and changed. And, maybe you are right maybe they should have their PC's taken from them and be put into therapy but, I think they way they are looking at it is every citizen of the US has the resources to realizes our shortcommings and the ability to seek the help we need if we need them. So they are just assuming these people don't think they need the help and they may be an injustice on their part take up for your friend and maybe start educating the people in your community and by all means have anyone who supports you and your views wirte to their senators and congressman. They work for us for a reason they are our voices when it comes to laws and the things that concern us. And, if people do not use those services the laws will never change. Maybe they have not considered this and maybe you should bring it to their attention. Just like us they are not mind readers and so they need to know our concerns and our thoughts and what we will and will not tolerate. I am not saying it is going ot change but,it very well may and that would be something I could live with. I mean there is 3 strikes your out out there for a reason. It is just sad that most Americans feel they cannot do anything about it anyway so they just don't try but, they do have the reources. And just for the record Nunya I do not believe you are a bad person or a pervert or anything as a matter of fact you seem like a very level headed thinker and that is nice to see. We may have differing opinions on things but, that is the joy of being an American and a Human we can do that.

    13.8.2004 14:09 #71

  • Nunya1

    Shan...Heres more thoughts for everyone to consider! He told me that He had become addicted to porn ..any kind of porn not just Kiddy Porn & He did in fact seek help and guess what He was told by the Conselor...that federal Law requires anyone in mental health services are required to report anything to them when it is considered a crime against children or whenever they feel anyone is in danger,so, you tell me, what was He supposed to do? Well, thats another bullshit trap that the government has set down to condemn people for having "pictures" on thier computer. The guy is a recovering alcoholic (5years) and has an addicitive personality in the 1st place and was allowed to get help for his addiction but wasnt for this one! Where is the Justice in that? The Govt doesnt deny helping addicts or people who are violent so why is this an exception? If you wanna picture this..a man reaching out for help only to put his hands out for a lift up and the fucking feds slap hand cuffs on him!I have written my senators and I have gotten mixed responses from them! I sent them an over 2,000 word letter and it appears that only the Democratic party members feel that the laws may be excessive and 1 of them even went as far as to say He feels that the Federal Government has no business handling issues like this! they are best at national security and issues of that nature. The Federal Government does not view each and every case individually and they only seem to be concerned with statistics and not individuals who do in fact have faces, families, jobs and so on. Now the Republican responses seem to be exactly what you would expect, they appear to think that anyone who purposely or inadvertantly get involved in this does not deserve any leniency whatsoever. My Opinion is that the republicans are the executioners in our world and do not care about much more than thier wallets. The democrats seem to care about people, so guess which way im voting! its just so damn messed up when someone you know who you know well enough to say that they would never ,ever ,ever molest a child gets involved in some bad shit and asks for help before he gets caught and is denied the chance and eventually gets caught and is now going to jail for 5 years. Its just not fair! What about his family, his friends..or at least those of them that dont duck and run from him now, after the press coverage and all the excessive hype that surrounds this issue. The whole thing is mass hysteria and I cant say that its unfounded but I can say its not as bad as everyone blows it up to be! After all he didnt touch, molest, solicite, cohearse, or manipulate anyone with his actions therefore if you really look deep into this He created absolutely no victims by his actions. This is not justice, this is harrassment, persecution, and I cant say uncalled for but I will say the punishment far exceeds the crime!

    13.8.2004 16:19 #72

  • signal

    i have a solution, track the people down who do this sick disgustiong thing and remove their junk. lol, they should be punished, that much is true. Any person willing to do such a thing deserves to be punished. but the sad part about this i, is that the people who are putting on the child porn are the parents and family members.

    unknown_signal

    2.9.2004 20:18 #73

  • MartMart

    Thread Title: "FBI targets child porn on P2P"

    1. Why P2P? Why target anything other than the people who abuse and exploit the children? ie: the SOURCE of the child porn.


    2. Define Child Porn.

    Would anyone here consider a picture of a nude boy or girl to be child porn>? or would that picture have to be of a sexual nature (ie: erection or sexual contact between 2 children or sexually suggestive poses etc) to be considered child porn? or all of the above?.

    If you answered all or even part of the above then checkout some films which are perfectly legal yet contain child nudity of both male and female and in one such film clearly shows a young boy of about 11 or 12 with an erection. Its called "1900" and it stars Robert Deniro, Burt Lancaster, Donald Sutherland, and Gerard Derpediuer (sp?) all highly famous hollywood filmstars. Child Porn?

    3. Why is child porn only availiable on the internet according to the media? why is the main focus of targetting child porn only for the people who download from the internet? what is it about the internet that makes child porn seem much much worse than from anywhere else? Anyone who mentions child porn these days associate it only with the internet...child porn can be bought from anywhere if you know where to get it.

    3.9.2004 05:52 #74

  • sgtmaddog

    you guys are weirdos.just get a fricken parential control.i don't know why porn is so addicting.just play
    games like battlefield 194 or half life 2 something.sheesh. remember something worse than porn. Ravenholm.

    "we don't go to Ravenholm anymore"

    2.8.2005 10:53 #75

  • Lethal_B

    pssst mate can u get half life 2 / battlefield 194 off any p2p/torrents?

    thx man

    2.8.2005 14:56 #76

  • thecraigc

    @ martmart : about the movie, the boy may have signed a contract of some sort saying he knew what he was doing and that he was okay with it.

    child porn is just sick, regular, mmm....... regular is fine by me

    mmmm...............regular porn

    !!thecraigc!!

    7.8.2005 13:52 #77

  • mef13

    I agree 100% no kid should have to go through things like that i myself was abused from 11-15 and i still cant go out and enjoy myself.
    Ive had this computer only a few weeks(my first one!)And the ironic thing is i think im being investigated i got told by my cousin to go on a site called limewire to get some mp3's i did an decided to get some porn to watch anothertime as the downloads are so slow(very stoned!)i clicked on various ones i decide it would be safe if i picked ones with the most people but most of the files arnt what they say so beware! i downloaded some as i said some were iffy unsure about the age 18-19?and there was one in particular @vampire"-i didnt watch it but i previewed it on limewire nasty shit little girl maybe 9-10 dancing around this fat ponce i flicked it off but it brought back all the memorys of me being abused as a kid.
    and ever since then im having all sorts of problems with my computer "hidden partions",couldnt fdisk properly g's missing bought a new drive today had to anyway old one was only 10g (i got it of a charity that helps people with disabilitys(down to what happened to me as a kid))now my drive is 40g but only shows 37g ther are all sorts of dlls root directorys missing its all a bit much for someone to take in at once ther should be more warnings on limewire or some suppervisors to suppervise content i dont know what to do or who to contact can anyone help me please?

    28.10.2005 10:42 #78

  • leggssc

    3. Why is child porn only availiable on the internet according to the media? why is the main focus of targetting child porn only for the people who download from the internet? what is it about the internet that makes child porn seem much much worse than from anywhere else? Anyone who mentions child porn these days associate it only with the internet...child porn can be bought from anywhere if you know where to get it.

    Yes, to think how far "child Porn" has advanced, via, the internet, bothers me. I do accept this behavior, but then, I can understand where curiousity "kills the cat"...I agree that if most people decide to view these kid porno sites or view as such photos, images, it will not entice or excellerate their "sexual behavior".....

    So many people are being charged by the US Fed Govt. for possession of child porn files on their computers. The jails, state and federal prisions are overladed with basically innocent charges of possession of child porn...no wonder why our correctional faculities are overcrowed. I say this because I have a realtive where Homeland Security came into their house a year ago, and seized the home computers...and recently Home Land Security has sent them a registered letter, basically stating that can come and get the computers, although Child Pornography Images were found on one of the computers.

    Person with the computers obtained a lawyer, and advised to get a "psycholigical evulation" just in case, charges should come forward.
    I was invited to engage in the "pysch evulation" and found the 3 hours of interragtion interesting. The person accused, told the Dr. he found the child porn websites disgusting to view, and could not explain why he really wanted to view them. NOW HERE IS THE KICKER:
    I often view a gore site that shows actual photos of dead peoplel, from car wrecks, to suicide. I was in a really bad auto accident several years ago, and the Drs. told me I was a miracle that I had survived. I think I go to these gorish websites, and look at vivid photos, thinking that it will somehow, justify why I was not killed in the wreck. I think these type of web sites should be deemed as llegal, but they are not....I look at photos of these dead people, and then I think I am invading their privacy. I am just trying to justity my actions on viewing such websites, as it is still legal, vs. those that view child porno websites...

    14.3.2007 09:13 #79

  • Jusice 4 Life (unverified)

    These creeps deserve that punishment, we got edited by ddp kids for god sake.

    10.11.2011 00:25 #80

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