AfterDawn: News

HD DVD representative points out problems with Blu-ray

In an interview with Betanews, Toshiba expert and HD DVD representative Mark Knox, gave some details about the HD DVD optical disc drive technology and also downplayed advantages held by Blu-ray while highlighted some problems with the Sony-developed format. One of the first things he highlighted was Blu-ray's numerical aperture, which is rumored to be the cause of production problems for Blu-Ray. The aperture setting on standard DVD is 0.6, with the setting for HD DVD a slightly smaller 0.65.

The additional capacity is then provided by the blue laser technology. On the other hand, Blu-ray has adopted a 0.85 aperture. This means the divots on the optical layer are smaller and more prone to errors. It also requires a thinner disc and smaller layer spacing, making the disc even more vulnerable. At first, Blu-ray discs were designed with an external cartridge to protect the disc, but now the group is utilizing a protective coating which has not yet been finalized.



Knox also explained why he believed the higher storage capacity advantage held by Blu-ray wasn't a very big issue, at least for movies. He said through the use of better codec technology, an extra 20GB is not needed. The Blu-ray group also revealed to Betanews that most movie discs will not go over the 25GB mark. Knox then went on to point out the manufacturing issues with Blu-ray disc. HD DVD's requirements are similar to those of DVD, eliminating manufacturing problems, whereas there will be little room for error in the Blu-ray manufacturing process, as well as the reading of discs by Blu-ray players, he said.

This could lead to a much higher production flaw rate. Next he refuted claims by the Blu-ray group that its use of Java for interactivity features will make development easier. He explained that the group is actually using a specification from Europe called JEM, which has a high number of instructions, making it "nearly impossible for hardware manufacturers to ensure devices will function under any circumstance." He claimed through HD DVD's use of iHD, a DHTML-based specification, the HD DVD group can verify that every disc will play on every player.

Another issue with Blu-ray is a requirement placed on the group after signing a deal with Fox. Fox demanded to be able to use a stronger copy protection technology in addition to AACS. The HD DVD group rejected the demand but Blu-ray conceded. Fox is unhappy that consumers might be able to use Mandatory Managed Copy to watch movies wherever they please around their homes. The DRM being pushed by Fox could theoretically restrict Mandatory Managed Copy. Managed Copy has been an issue for months ever since Hewlett-Packard demanded that Blu-ray require the technology on all discs.

Betanews also questioned Knox about the notion of limited content in the HD DVD format. He acknowledged that HD DVD does not have as many studios supporting it as its rival touts. However, he said that of the American Film Institute's Top 100 movies, more than 60 were from studios supporting the HD DVD format, and that the group was going to focus on quality and not quantity. He accused the Blu-ray group of simply wanting "as many logos as possible on their PowerPoint slide."



Source:
Betanews

Written by: James Delahunty @ 17 Jan 2006 5:54

• Previous article

• New York pirates rebroadcasting Howard Stern

• Next article

• El Salvador pirates protest new copyright laws

• 36 comments

• DarkJello

  I must say I like the idea of the protective casings, like cd's used to be. Didn't have to worry about them at all. They wouldn't have to be much bigger then CD's are now either. A scratch on a Blu-ray disc means you just messed up a lot more data then you would have on a cd or dvd. I always think more room is better.

  17.1.2006 06:07 #1

• gl9

  "most movie discs will not go over the 25GB mark."
  
  Ok. So what about the bonus material? You and I both know they'll include it, so where will it go? ...the Second disk? I thought so.
  
  It seems the HD DVD camp thought, 'oh, how about we increase the disk's capacity so that we can include the HD content on it, but let's ignore the fact that we'll lack the capacity to include all bonuses on the first disk. the two/three disk way per movie is still a good idea. we'll keep it.'
  
  "This could lead to a much higher production flaw rate. Next he refuted claims by the Blu-ray group that its use of Java for interactivity features will make development easier."
  
  Hey, isn't Microsoft always the one that has to include Service Packs for everything...didn't Microsoft produce its next-gen console with flaws? They shouldn't be saying these things about Sony because they don't have the right.
  
  And why is Sony taking this while lying down? They remind me of the Democrat party here in the US. Get it...blue?
  
  SO, on which side am I? Neither. **** them both. Especially, Fox.

  17.1.2006 06:19 #2

• Razengan

  Actually Microsoft isn't directly involved in all this. HD-DVD was created by Toshiba. They did suggested an external HD-DVD adapter could be offered for their XBOX 360. But, lately they also suggested that a Blu-ray adapter could be a possibility, this format became the most popular one.

  17.1.2006 06:45 #3

• Dela

  Quote:"most movie discs will not go over the 25GB mark."
  
  Ok. So what about the bonus material? You and I both know they'll include it, so where will it go? ...the Second disk? I thought so.
  
  It seems the HD DVD camp thought, 'oh, how about we increase the disk's capacity so that we can include the HD content on it, but let's ignore the fact that we'll lack the capacity to include all bonuses on the first disk. the two/three disk way per movie is still a good idea. we'll keep it.' Actually you need to read again, it was the Blu-ray camp that said most movie releases won't go over the 25GB mark, not HD DVD group. So essentially the point is, the Blu-ray group touts a 50GB disc to Hollywood, but admits later on that most movies won't use up the 50GB limit at all.
  Quote:"This could lead to a much higher production flaw rate. Next he refuted claims by the Blu-ray group that its use of Java for interactivity features will make development easier."
  
  Hey, isn't Microsoft always the one that has to include Service Packs for everything...didn't Microsoft produce its next-gen console with flaws? They shouldn't be saying these things about Sony because they don't have the right.And Sony produces nothing without flaws? Come on man. But that's even beside the point. You justy selected two lines of text that are useless on their own, if you read on a bit you find out why he downplayed the Java approach to interactivity.
  Quote:And why is Sony taking this while lying down? They remind me of the Democrat party here in the US. Get it...blue? Sony lying down? Sony has shouted the loudest in this format war so far about why their format is the best and why HD DVD sucks. They aren't lying down and taking anything really, they already claim to have won the format war ;-)
  Quote:SO, on which side am I? Neither. **** them both. Especially, Fox.Well yes you are right. Both sides have their flaws and in one way or another are full of s***. And as for Fox, how could they ever make any claim to keeping consumers interests in mind.... i dunno.

  17.1.2006 06:49 #4

• kublakhan

  Wow, you people are blind! I would have an HD DVD disc any day over a Blu-ray Disc just because of managed copy. I have a PDA and I think it's just stupid that I can't watch movies on my PDA, but I can listen to music - what gives?
  
  If Blu-ray had managed copy as a mandatory feature I would say that HD-DVD is out of the game, but since it doesn't, and has even stricter copy protection, etc. I'm probably getting the HD DVD Qosimo coming out March. Also, HD DVD drives will be supporting both DVD and CD along with HD DVD - so why would I want Blu-ray? Bluray is more expensive (drive and discs) and you would need a seperate drive to read DVDs and CDs.
  
  This format war is over. HD definately wins unless Bluray gets its act together.
  
  On a side note Holographic Discs with at least 300GB of data are coming out in October - by then Blu-ray will definately be dead. The only good thing about Blu-ray so far is storage right? So Holographic Discs (which happen to be cheaper too) will definately wipe Blu-ray from the face of this earth - to only be a fleeting memory of storage.
  
  What else? You say HD DVD doesn't have enough space for special features. Are you kidding me? Seriously? How many of you have Nero Recode installed? AVC/H.264 the standard used by both Bluray and HD DVD can fit more than DVD quality video on todays DVDs - so I think you can expect more than enough special features (and in much better quality - they are usually downgraded on DVD discs) on HD DVD disc. By the way, how much do you really watch on special features. I just watch the deleted scenes, bloopers, and commentary. That's it! The only DVD I watched more on (and liked it) was Pirates of the Carribean.
  And what's so bad about two discs anyway - they fit in the same cause just as well.
  
  Just my opinion. But, you could all shock me with more news than just storage space being good on Blu-ray. Like "it's not going to be illegal to copy Blu-ray discs.." Yeah right.

  17.1.2006 08:19 #5

• spooky2k

  Dela: im not sure how to quote, so i'll respond to the post by copy and pasting your arguments.
  
  'Actually you need to read again, it was the Blu-ray camp that said most movie releases won't go over the 25GB mark, not HD DVD group. So essentially the point is, the Blu-ray group touts a 50GB disc to Hollywood, but admits later on that most movies won't use up the 50GB limit at all.'
  The actual movie wont use over 25GB...and for HD DVD, that is a double layer disk. So any bonus material woud go on the second disk. For Blu-ray, that's single layer, and so the bonus material AND the movie all fit on one disk. Alot more convenient if you ask me. Imagine the difference in content on a 2 disk HD DVD movie, compared to a 2 disk Blu-ray...that's where blu ray comes out miles ahead.
  
  'Sony lying down? Sony has shouted the loudest in this format war so far about why their format is the best and why HD DVD sucks. They aren't lying down and taking anything really, they already claim to have won the format war ;-)'
  
  Both sides are kicking and screaming like lil kids trying to get attention. Just get the products out and see who wins.
  
  Overall, i think the difference here is between how long each format is expected to last...lets face it, if HD DVD gets adopted, somethign like this will happen say, 2 years down the line because although its a step up, its only 1 step up really.
  Blu-ray is a format that is aiming at being aroudn for a long time. And consumers wouldnt really have to come face to face with a new technology for movie storage etc for a good 4 years once blu ray is (thats, IF it is) adopted.
  Sure, they'll be new technologies realised, but it's a technology (blu-ray that is) that will be standard for longer than HD DVD could hold out.
  Basically, what do consumers wants....a technology that'll be replaced AGAIN inside of 2 years...or a technology that'll hold its own for a good 4 - 5 years?
  Dan x

  17.1.2006 08:43 #6

• spooky2k

  kublakhan:
  
  did you read the above news at all? do you know that people do infact exist that watch all of the special features?
  i suggest you look up the 'lord of the rings extended editions', see how well they did, and realise that probably more than 75% have watched nearly the whole collection of features on those disks.
  Why do you wanna watch movies on your PDA?in all honesty, those things will become extinct soon anyway. As soon as a mobile phone/cell phone gets that whole area right, they're going the way of the dodo.
  
  And what you said about holographic disks....u know that'd still hold true, and be even worse for consuymers if HD DVD won the 'format war' right?
  
  Oh, and by the way, more disks in a set, means a higher production cost ;)
  Dan x
  
  
  

  17.1.2006 08:49 #7

• holoman

  Sandisk Flashcard Solid State Drives will Cost $ 90.00 a Gigabyte versus the Hard Drive < $ .50 a Gigabyte ( $ 500 drive ) versus Blu-ray / HD-DVD $ .012 a Gigabyte ( $7,500 drive ) versus Inphase / Optware Worm Holographic $ .50 a Gigabyte ( $ 15,000 drive ) versus Atomic Holographic Drive < $ 0.0004 a Gigabyte ($ 750 drive ).
  
  http://colossalstorage.net
  
  

  17.1.2006 09:18 #8

• Dela

  Quote:The actual movie wont use over 25GB...and for HD DVD, that is a double layer disk. So any bonus material woud go on the second disk. For Blu-ray, that's single layer, and so the bonus material AND the movie all fit on one disk. Alot more convenient if you ask me. Imagine the difference in content on a 2 disk HD DVD movie, compared to a 2 disk Blu-ray...that's where blu ray comes out miles ahead. Ok, so let's say the movie uses up 25GB, your argument is that all extras and special features will fit on a 50GB disc then, whereas HD DVD would have to squeeze it all into the remaining 5GB on a DL disc? Ok, that's a fair argument.
  
  I think personally myself however, that we wont see movies on 50GB Blu-ray Discs for a while yet, so while initial releases of movies are rushed out to compete with HD DVD's "200 for 2006" target, they'll probably do the same thing, movie on disc one, extras on disc 2 ... which btw i personally prefer.
  
  Then it all comes down to cost, Blu-ray has the advantage with PS3 but ONLY for gamers. People not interested in gaming at all need a player, and HD DVD players will be cheaper, at least at first, to invest in.
  
  But what bothers me somewhat is people are spending so much time talking about the storage capacity of both formats.. what about reliability? That's something we'll all know nothing about for years, when we can make a comparison... but on paper, HD DVD seems to be a less risky disc to invest in when thinking about scratching etc. It is also pretty much based on the DVD format which we all have to admit has sorta proven itself fully now as a reliable medium to store movies and other content on.
  
  Usability is another issue. For now iHD vs. BD-Java is something that the masses cant judge because we haven't had a chance to judge either. That's another factor.
  
  But ye, point I'm trying to make really is storage capacity isn't everything (esp. as HD DVD rep said, with new codec technology... btw.. it sorta bothers me to think of high definition movies using MPEG-2). I pointed out on another thread before that most of us could be classed as Geeks (which is a good thing, of cours ;-) ) but that the majority of people cudnt be classed as geeks. And I think the average consumer who wants to be careful in checking out HD movies, will go for the discs and players that still actually say "DVD" on them somewhere... because it is familiar and gives a feeling of safety.
  
  But overall, I dislike this format war between two technologies that are not really that advanced from current technology. Then we have new-ish options (such as holographic storage) also coming... and it's like it doesn't exist.. it's another way that content companies will sell their stuff "again" when Blu-ray and hd dvd are burned out. It took a while for DVD to reach the way it is now, and its amazing popularity, but both HD DVD and Blu-ray are being given no breathing space at all. Don't think of it any other way, Hollywood wants these formats out NOW, as quickly as possible, to make this transition that is worth potentially billions. Because of that we see some obvious problems, like Blu-ray has most of its launch details (dates etc.) set and ready when not every aspect of the format is complete.
  
  It is all being setup to be a complete disaster for both formats I think.. and a worse disaster for consumers.
  Quote:Basically, what do consumers wants....a technology that'll be replaced AGAIN inside of 2 years...or a technology that'll hold its own for a good 4 - 5 years? Speaking of consumer interests though, there are other factors like I mentioned above that will judge what format the masses ultimately decide on. I personally don't see why HD DVD wouldn't be good enough for years to come... what are thye going to do after high definition movies anyway? This is the best possible quality for most existing movies, any better quality I think would be unnoticable and wouldn't be worth upgrading your equipment and collection again

  17.1.2006 10:46 #9

• akitchens

  25 gig!!!... Do folks realize how long it's going to take us to back these up once we're able to, if we can afford the drives/media to burn them.

  17.1.2006 12:23 #10

• DarkJello

  Not to mention the hard drive space your going to have to keep free, but I don't think that's part of there concern. Think I might have to build a designated machine for that task though, due to the amount of time it's going to take. Hope whatever it is that comes out has some staying power. I don't think holographic discs are going to come out on time though. They will most be delayed by a fairly significant amount of time. Now those better come in some sort of housing as they are probably fragile .

  17.1.2006 12:37 #11

• Rikoshay

  I know it may seem weird, but that site, http://colossalstorage.net, seems to give some good info.
  
  If you think about it, in today's world of fast-growing technology and growth of data over the Internet, we're going to need more than just 25GB for storage. It's a great increase, but we are going to need a whole lot more at a lot cheaper prices.
  
  I already put in over 300GB on a 400GB HDD that I purchased a little under a month ago, and I keep getting more stuff. We need to hurry up with this debate and start bringing out equipment that we can use, because I'm getting tired of buying hard-drives and DVD's to use for inadequet storage capabilities.

  17.1.2006 15:29 #12

• ireland

  my option on blue ray it stinks like any thing sory rootkit corp.makes,b-4 i knew any better i bought a video camera,which can only use there battery,at 90 dollars a pop next i bought there digital camera that use's mini cd disks..and disks cost a arm and a leg.and ye have to use there disks or the camera,i tried another brand..words from sory"s camera is the disk is not a sory disk..{sorry}
  any movies thats out on blue ray,and risk any sory rootkit virus to be installed on my computer sory can stick it in there ear..
  as for any sory rootkit corp products they can stick it where the sun don't shine.
  
  
  Sony rootkit victims in every state, researcher says
  Posted by l33tdawg on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 02:05 AM (Reads: 3)
  Source: CNet News
  
  
  A security researcher has claimed that computers in every U.S. state have been affected by copy-restriction software from Sony BMG. Dan Kaminsky released the information at the Shmoocon 2006 hacker conference in Washington last week. Florida seems to have the highest number, with 12,588 networks detected that are hosting computers with the digital rights management software installed, according to figures posted by The Washington Post. California and Massachusetts also exhibit high rates of infection, although the numbers are only an estimate, as each network could host any number of computers with the Sony software installed. The DRM software is automatically installed by some Sony BMG music CDs and is hidden using a rootkit, which can be exploited by a particular type of Trojan horse and hence constitutes a significant security risk.
  
  story here
  http://news.com.com/Sony+rootkit+victims+in+every+U.S.+state%2C+r...

  17.1.2006 16:18 #13

• PirateDan

  Here is something to ponder for a moment.
  Sony is waving the banner for Blu-ray cause it's the one set to make the most money off of it with it's new game console the PS3. In it has a new CPU codenamed the Cell which is built by who???
  Wait for it.........you guessed it right Toshiba.
  But it is Toshiba along with Microsoft that is behind HD-DVD.
  I think someone is biting the hand that is feeding them.
  And I leave with this last morsel to chew on, just check out this article and look at the numbers that are quoted in it I think Hollywood love to have this customer base.
  
  http://tinyurl.com/ac8lo

  17.1.2006 16:49 #14

• neo1000

  Just hand your $40 blu ray copy of the incredibles to your 5 year old child and see if disney replaces it after the fingertips or little scratches causes it to freeze.

  17.1.2006 17:16 #15

• afterdood

  I think you are all missing the point, sure its great to have hd formats...but if you cant afford something to view it on=big friggin deal. Sony and Hd and everyone arguing trivially about this seem to be missing the point that 9 out of 10 households in america, have crappy 10-25 year old tv's and have no functunal use for high definition anything. The only reason I believe that xbox 360 is doing well at all is because microsoft purposely probably shortaged everyone so they didnt have the public to deal with that fact and have the amount of stock left over like in japan because people dont want to buy a new game console plus lay down another 1500 dollars for a decent HDTV to play it on.
  plus if playstation 3 is going to cost 600-900 (imagine having to pay 900+another 1500 for a decent HDTV lmfao) dollars as some predict, blue ray will be even less popular and all this is going to do is cheapen the price on good old plain dvds :). In all I predict hd and blue ray thier going to bomb, because people are so disenfranchised with having what they do monitored by blue ray and having no need for them not owning hdtv's (hence the new copyprotection blue ray players wich are monitored and have to be online) will deter people from buying them. Really who cares if I can get grainy good old Night of the living dead on hd, dvd does just fine as most movies that are popular are 15-25 years old and no amount of hd will improve picture quality over a grainy-aged ciggaret burn laden film.
  And do we really care that much that final destination part 10 will be in HD finally? Great product + no content=bad product + poor sales. Blue ray and HD will be a trend for the rich do to overpriced tvs (even at 900 for a small HDTV is too expensive for most).
  In all i think they all suck and this new orwellian 1984 for the ethically handicapped mentallity supported by our bought out entertainment lobbied payoffed american gov sucks ass well. Better to not argue about how fast the carriage is going to go till the horses get thier fellas.

  17.1.2006 17:55 #16

• OzMick

  Word.

  17.1.2006 22:03 #17

• msitarski

  1 year from 2 weeks now thats when i got my first dvd burner and its been great i do not want to go to blu ray or watever it will mean more money and being worried if it is burnable so i can burn backups il be happy with blu ray movies or watver to standard dvd format i do not want to go into the future cant we stay as we are now my 2 cents

  17.1.2006 23:35 #18

• SGSeries2

  Was this info posted elsewhere? I think I've seen this news before...
  
  (warning: long post)
  
  Do you guys know how many rf modulators places like wal-mart still sell? It's rediculous. (I know those customers are aware that they'll get a better picture if they don't use the stupid thing, but they don't want to go out and buy a new tv... and places like wal-mart still sell stuff without composite input jacks, let alone composite jacks with stereo input! That doesn't help adoption! Sure, such a tv has it's uses, but not in a home theater system (whatever that may be), and that's what peoply "foolishly" buy them for. It's slows everything down.) The masses don't like changes in format and upgrading their entertainment systems in general because it always costs money. For some people, as long as it's optional, it's an option they don't mind passing up if it saves them money, even if it means spending $17 on an rf modulator for an aging/poor tv set.
  
  As far as colossalstorage.net, I think I've been there before, but it seems to be down right now, so I'm just going to shed light on current solutions with future large data storage spaces: you have to consider read, seek, and write times as well as the bandwidth necessary to take advantage of the media. Even with the adoption of SATA2, we still see a lack of necessary bandwidth to fill a single drive reasonably for even media such as HD content, let alone a higher standard, without using lossy compression algorithms on the data, all in realtime, to accomodate for the lack of bandwidth.
  
  On the BluRay bashing HD-DVD is doing in this announcement: So Sony wants to raise the bar in quality requirements? So be it. They want to use java? Sounds much better than the lame dvd stuff we use today. BluRay touts support? Support helps adoption. HD moview will use up only half the disc? Reminds me of our current line of dvds to an extent. What was that? Superbit HD movies? I like the sound of that. (It may never happen though. What I see is companies supporting both parties making copies that fit the HD-DVD format just because of the lack of space, then maybe putting all the extras on the same disc in the bluRay version, thereby not really taking what I would consider an advantage of the extra storage space. This will probably be the case, at least just right off the bat of things.)
  
  I'm not too big a fan of Fox, though. That's for sure... I'd like to see how such a thing works without some sort of network/burning technology built into the player(s), thereby modifying the disc (read: expensive). How would that work for movie rentals? Sounds like a bad deal to me. (Actually, I'd prefer not to see it at all, but we'll have to see how that works out.)

  18.1.2006 07:03 #19

• MightyOne

  mmmmmmmm
  
  I don't really want to spend any more money either. I'm gonna sit back and watch this unfold. I believe for a while that Hollywood will still be releasing 99% of movies on DVD-5 or DVD-9 for long time, and if your Rich, great, u will get a better picture.
  
  STORAGE: Don't forget about the corporate world. I am very heavy into the IT World. Storage backups for company data, speed, and reliablity is everything ijn the Backup World. Larger storage is very appealing to someone like me. Tape backups suck. Companies still need a way to storge data "out of house". Larger removeable media is needed. This 50 Gig BlueRay is peanuts to what i am talking about. My backups are over 300 Gig a night.
  
  Size does matter! Just ask a female - he he he.
  
  I do think that the gereral public is not ready for this financially. Tough times are ahead. The average citizen will not be able to afford this.
  
  ...but hey...isn't that what the Illuminati wants ?
  Debt and confusion. I believe there are many other hidden agenda's out there and us end users are going to pay for it.
  
  To early to tell - Look what happend to Beta vs VHS.
  
  Timing is everything. i sure hope this is a slow slow tansition.

  18.1.2006 07:13 #20

• kublakhan

  Blu- ray vs. HD DVD
  More storage Legal to copy
  Scratches Easily Doesn't scratch
  Java DHTML -ensured func.
  Lots of Logos Important names- better movies
  Backward
  compatability
  
  
  In the end the only things going for Blu-ray are storage, java (which apparently isn't all that good for compatability), and logos. HD DVD is, on the other less prone to scratches, has production studios with better movies on its side, has DHTML - which is very stable funtionable with hardware, LEGAL TO COPY, and will be able to play CDs DVDs and HD DVD discs!
  
  I don't know about you, but HD DVD sure seems to have more and better features up to storage space. And even this seems trivial if you think about it. Dual layer DVDs are 9.4. If you were to fill this space with HD content you would get unbelievable quality and extra space compared to the MPEG 2 encoded movie previous. However, there are 25 GBs of space available on HD DVD discs. This means that - theoretically- HD DVD Discs could have stunning quality movies, and if the bitrate for special features was only at a meager 1.0 MB/s you could watch a 2hr special features in DVD quality video using only about 1 GB of space. I don't know about you, but I think that's incredible.
  
  I don't really understand the need for space... Yes, there are things like Lord of the Rings with lots of special features, but, if they used the principle I listed all the features would easily fit on one disc. How about a double sided disc? what's so bad if there's data both sides of one disc. HD DVD's could do that but Bluray is to sensitive for that. If bluray had mandatory managed copy then this game would be almost over. But, they got in a sticky situation just to get Fox's Logo - Uhmm, I don't know if I want to buy DVD's from a company that promises stuff that consumers definately don't want. Sorry. I'm firmly sticking with HD DVD.
  
  One last note. When Holographic storage comes out (300GB) I don't even know what movie studios are going to do with all that space. At a certain point all that data won't be able to play off hardware without making it extremely expensive - hence the reason bluray is more expensive.

  18.1.2006 08:00 #21

• jacsac

  What is this DVD thingy you speak of?

  18.1.2006 15:08 #22

• firewolf

  From the sounds of things I would stick with hd for one main reason... If I'm spend $40-$70 dollars for a game, It damn well better not scratch in the first week! I do take care of my games but things do happen. also to point out I've got over 300 DVD's, I have probably seen the special features on about a third of them if that.

  18.1.2006 17:35 #23

• gl9

  Dela, I just wanted to respond to your comments.
  
  [QUOTE]Actually you need to read again, it was the Blu-ray camp that said most movie releases won't go over the 25GB mark, not HD DVD group. So essentially the point is, the Blu-ray group touts a 50GB disc to Hollywood, but admits later on that most movies won't use up the 50GB limit at all.[/QUOTE]
  
  I apologize for any misinterpretation of the facts. However, the point still stands: the bonus material will appear on the second HD DVD disk (unless the HD DVD camp can tap into the theoretical third and fourth layers).
  
  I agree with spooky2k on this issue. It is a matter of convenience. And even though we might not see movies on 50GB Blu-ray discs for a while, it is a future possibility. Therefore, it should not be excluded.
  
  I also want to say that I agree with you on the "storage capacity only" issue. Too many focus on this single issue. I know because I used to be one of them, until I saw the price tag.
  
  [QUOTE]And Sony produces nothing without flaws? Come on man. But that's even beside the point. You justy selected two lines of text that are useless on their own, if you read on a bit you find out why he downplayed the Java approach to interactivity.[/QUOTE]
  
  My main - and only - intended point was that the HD DVD camp should not be poking holes in the other side's quality. Both sides have made very high quality products as well as crap. Neither has the right.
  
  [QUOTE]Sony lying down? Sony has shouted the loudest in this format war so far about why their format is the best and why HD DVD sucks. They aren't lying down and taking anything really, they already claim to have won the format war ;-)[/QUOTE]
  
  I guess I've been reading too many one-sided articles.
  
  Anyway, it's waaaaaaaay too early to tell, and I refuse to talk about it anymore. By talking about it, I'm only giving both sides exposure.

  18.1.2006 19:16 #24

• shiroh

  i'm going for ps3, so i'm not worried at all over some feud

  19.1.2006 22:08 #25

• KC5RTY

  spooky2k posted on 17 January 2006 13:49
  
  "Oh, and by the way, more disks in a set, means a higher production cost ;)"
  
  Maybe but not a sure thing.. if the cost per disc is less due to less flaws in production they could reach a price point where multi-disc releases could cost the same or less than a single disc blue-ray release, look at chip manufactures like intel and AMD. Regardless of how many working chips they get from a single silicon die the cost of production remains the same so the more good chips they get from each run means they "can" charge less per chip and turn a profit but if they have a high flaw rate they have to charge more per chip just to break even... and if blue-ray had to stick with the protective case like they thought they might have had in the begining, then B-ray would be much more expensive.
  
  Vince
  

  21.1.2006 12:46 #26

• toofer

  hiding your head in the sand won`t keep you up on whats going on with these two formats. Upgrading to view HD movies is going to cost us money. Hell, has anyone looked at the requirements for VISTA. For anyone unable to build a system they are going to lay down some serious bread. For those that can put together a system it isn`t going to be cheap. You gotta have a graphics board of atleast 256MB. My ole All-in-wonder 9500 128 ain`t gonna cut it. 2GB ram. minimum. And Vista is the only format capable of HD -HDCP. It`s goona be an expensive next couple of yrs. toof.

  21.1.2006 12:56 #27

• tnarulz

  I personally am not going to go out and spend at least 1000-1500 for a TV, however much the hd-dvd/blu-ray readers will be, and then I'm sure when the movies are coming out they will be about 30 to 40 bucks a pop easily.
  
  I mean for crying out loud Wal Mart is still selling VHS TAPES!!!!! DVD's are popular but it took a while for them to get there. I mean wasn't in just 2004 that decent dvd players were priced around 50 bucks?
  
  Just my two cents worth.

  21.1.2006 14:54 #28

• ScubaGod

  For me it is simple, Blue-Ray = Sony. Sony = root kit, law suits, and most of all hypocrisy. Remember the Bata law suit. I trust Sony less than I trust spammer who promises to make me into a super stud. If Sony is backing Blue-Ray I’ll go with HD DVD.

  21.1.2006 18:41 #29

• Rikoshay

  The only thing I think I can trust from Sony is their headphones, but who knows if they are bugging those too to figure out what their costumers listen to. LOL
  
  Authenticating Blu-ray with an online connection? Don't you think that's too much, for any company. I don't think that's true, and if it is, that'll be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
  
  I don't see how pointing fingers and name-calling is solving anything for these companies. Slander and blunt lies just make that company look bad. It's not like people (I hope) take what companies say seriously now-a-days.
  
  The reasons I like Blu-ray a little better than HD-DVD is it's use of some new technology, it's capabilities to get better in the future, and it's use in the PS3.
  

  Need help fast? Lookie here:
  http://adbuddies.ccsau.com/chat/irc.php
  Find the tweak you need here:
  http://www.mdgx.com/
  µtorrent - My client of choice:
  http://www.utorrent.com/

  21.1.2006 18:59 #30

• junkmail3

  I'll go with HDDVD because:
  
  1 I do not trust Sony (I do not want software being installed on my PC, collecting and sending information to Sony without any notice and creating security problems).
  
  2 Blue Ray does not allow backup – no go, especially if it is more fragile.
  
  3 Dual layer HD DVD (no problem to make) will give you about 30Gb (less then single 25Gb Blue-Ray, they have problem making dual layer)
  
  4 Compatibility: HD DVD player plays DVDs and CDs, not Blue-ray one.
  
  5 Some preliminary info about price points toward higher price for both Blue-ray player and disks
  
  Anyway I am not going to get HD player or buy HD disks as soon as they will be available, not because I do not have HD TV and 5.1 audio system but because I have it. I have got for 200$ one of the best upscaling DVD player (it converts DVD to native HD TV resolution). I can not see difference in quality between true HDTV broadcast and what I get when playing DVDs on my 32” LCD TV. There is difference if upscaling is off. So I am going to continue to buy DVDs and eventually switch to HD DVDs. This will give me time to see how things will go and at the same time I already have HD quality
  with my DVDs.

  22.1.2006 03:37 #31

• Gosher

  They Say
  
  "HD DVD representative points out problems with Blu-ray
  17 January 2006 10:54 by Dela
  
  In an interview with Betanews, Toshiba expert and HD DVD representative Mark Knox, gave some details about the HD DVD optical disc drive technology and also downplayed advantages held by Blu-ray while highlighted some problems with the Sony-developed format. One of the first things he highlighted was Blu-ray's numerical aperture, which is rumored to be the cause of production problems for Blu-ray. The aperture setting on standard DVD is 0.6, with the setting for HD DVD a slightly smaller 0.65. "
  
  I Say 0.6 IS SMALLER than 0.65
  
  

  22.1.2006 10:13 #32

• DarkJello

  I noticed that as well but just figured I was being stupid, can anyone confirm what that means?

  22.1.2006 16:37 #33

• Gosher

  Can't see that it matters what it is Dark, sometning that is 06. 0f something (or anything) is smaller than 0.65 of the same thing, or did I waste all those years at school and uni doing maths/calculus etc?

  23.1.2006 09:37 #34

• deadlois

  I think aperture, at least when it comes to cameras, the smaller the number corresponds to a physically larger opening. Like f/2.8 is larger than f/8. It has to do with the light focusing or something like that, I believe. Not sure how it corresponds to .065 and .06 though

  23.1.2006 17:40 #35

• rjones167

  i dont want the technology from some mega giant like sony infecting my system without my permission....so if i had to go with anything it would be HD-DVD...but i like the simple version -buy it bring it home, slap it in the player and enjoy the show..if a better picture is neede keep it simple and affordable, without the added costs and new equipment expenses and remember us poor folks who just want to enjoy the movies at an affordable price without the bulls**t.
  THANKS

  28.1.2006 07:18 #36