PS3 to ship with PS2 chipset for backwards compatibility

Japanese magazine Ultra One has revealed that Sony plan to include the Playstation 2 chipset with each of their up and coming Playstation 3 consoles - at least until a proper PS2 emulator is developed.

When Sony initially announced the PlayStation 3's backwards compatibility with both the PS2 and PSone, the indication was given that the it would be provided through emulation. But this new report in the Japanese technology magazine Ultra One (partially translated by IGN) suggests that PS2 emulation is actually achieved through physical hardware, and not emulation.

The PS3 hardware is currently designed to include the PS2 chipset, (the Emotion Engine CPU and Graphic Synthesizer combo chip that is found in the slim model PS2), according to the magazine. With the PS3 already being expensive to manufacture, the inclusion of another chipset can only increase costs. In the same breath, however, the report goes on to say that Sony intends to remove the PS2 chipset from the PS3 once work on an efficient PS2 emulator is completed by its engineers.

Izumi Kawanishi, head of Sony's Software Platform Development Division, told the Ultra One that the PS3 as announced is, "nothing more than just the basic system." It is possible that Sony may release models with even larger hard disks/upgraded network features, but the CPU clock speed and memory specs will not change, as all PS3s must run the same games. The PS3 is also equipped with a "large amount of flash memory," which will be used to house the operating system and all future system updates.

Additionally, "it seems that the hard disk is to be used exclusively for multimedia content and will not contain any system features; users will, after all, be able to swap the built in hard drive out with any standard drive they pick up at a computer hardware store," according to the IGN translation.

Sony went on to assure the magazine that all PS3 models will forever be compatible with every PS3 game. Back when Sony introduced newer PS2 hardware, the new models were incompatible with some of the older software. However, this won't be the case with the PS3, as the console will have the ability to download patches.

Source:
Game Daily Biz

Written by: Ben Reid @ 5 Jun 2006 14:11

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99 comments

tmfloria

So does that mean that since the PS3 will have a PS2 Chip set that you could take a PS2 Memory Card with HDLOADER and still run a MC Exploit on the PS3 to run PS2 games?
since the PS3 is ship with a Hard Drive already...

5.6.2006 14:22 #1

Rob1026

what a crock i freaking hate sonys bullshit!

5.6.2006 14:40 #2

neo1000

Are they building a frankenstein?

5.6.2006 15:01 #3

plutonash

By including the chipset they are raising the cost of the system as a whole. Emulation while not perfect is cheap. Why not wait make sure everything is right then ship the console out. The 600 dollar pricetag (plus tax) is already crazy why not take actions to lower cost by 100 bucks.

5.6.2006 15:17 #4

nonoitall

Well, anyone who intends to buy a PS3 should probably wait until they start using software emulation. Chips aren't cheap - even if they're a few years older than current gen ones.

5.6.2006 15:19 #5

OzMick

Good ol' Sony... With every new week comes some new announcement that is going to be rushed into service. Anyone who thinks the PS3 is going to be a stable system (compared to the 360, which admittedly has its flaws) is deluding themselves.

5.6.2006 15:25 #6

svtstang

Looks like empire know as Sony is slowly crumbling....

thx to jamaal10 for the sig
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PSP FW 1.5
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5.6.2006 15:30 #7

deedeebee

Why are you people complaining? This is far superior to software emulation and it won't increase the cost to the consumer. Sony has set the price for the console, they aren't going to raise it further at this point. This is just a stopgap measure until they can get software emulation working right.

5.6.2006 15:45 #8

OzMick

I don't know about that man, I think Microsoft has told it like it is by saying hey, we've got compatibility for most, and it is a segment of the games that is bringing in absolute zero profit. If you've got an original PS2 game or Xbox game, odds are you have an original PS2 or Xbox console to play it on. Quit bitching and get a little input selector box for your TV. All Sony is going by promising future work on backward compatibility is wasting time that could otherwise be put into making the current gen games better. Promising hardware revisions is a dumb idea, next they'll be saying they're going to boost power as well, then, lo and behold, new games aren't completely compatible and they go back on their word here.

5.6.2006 16:03 #9

oofRome

I would much rather have a ps3 run ps2 games off ps2 hardware than try to emulate it...

5.6.2006 17:22 #10

munx

what this means is that with the ps2 chipset, mod chips will be provided so you can play your ps2 backups and imports.

5.6.2006 19:56 #11

mc_unique

I say, to hell with ps2 comatabilities. I mean come on. what we are dealing with here. Face it, how many of us still play PS1 games on the PS2 consol? NOBODY!!! And if you do, comon get a grip, PS1 was over and done with how many years ago? PS3 is gonna be exactly the same thing. Once you get a game or 2 your gonna forget all about it. So enough with the games and procrastinating and get on with the show. Give us the PS3 and stop jerkin us around.
Even though this is business, there is plaenty of money to be made in the consoles and games alone. so screw the wmulations screw the ps2 chipset and get on with the program. Give us the PS3 already.

5.6.2006 20:56 #12

svtstang

Nothing more to add to Mc_Unique's post, enough said.

thx to jamaal10 for the sig
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PSP FW 1.5
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5.6.2006 21:02 #13

lxhotboy

Some people do still play classics. Look on ebay and see how many NES systems you find with games. Just b.c you may not see the need for backwards compatibility doesnot mean everyone else does to. Everyone is diff. I will always play new games and old ones too. Still love zelda a link to the past. It is a classic.

5.6.2006 22:54 #14

oofRome

I just got back from my friends house tonight and we played tekken 3 or seomthign from the psx era on his ps2.

5.6.2006 23:29 #15

svtstang

LOL Tekken 3 was the sh!t

6.6.2006 00:18 #16

gozilla

Backwards compatibility should not be ignored, as it always consumers new to the brand the opportunity to play some games they may have missed out on the previous generation.

6.6.2006 00:30 #17

OzMick

lxhotboy: you demonstrate the lack of a need for it in your own post. If you want to play it, you get the console it was designed for to play it. Especially with systems like the SNES, due to the whole cartridge thing. If it can be thrown in without any additional cost through software, hell, why not, but Sony is going out of their way to make you pay twice for the ability to play the game, it doesn't make sense from a business stance. Especially when you consider the price of the PS2 console will fall through the floor when the PS3 comes out, people won't be able to pay people to take their second hand consoles off their hands.

6.6.2006 02:02 #18

munx

The thing is that the price has already been set. I say throw it in, since it won't affect the price anylonger. Granted the set the price knowing the ps2 chip would be added in, so it might have been cheaper, but its to late now...

6.6.2006 04:02 #19

SGSeries2

I don't get why peops are so rustled up. I'm mean, hey, this is exactly what they did with there first shipment of ps2s for ps1 compatibility, am I right? This is hardly anything I'd call new. The price is set. They change it, then it's their butts, not ours, that get bitten in the end. (Heck, I wasn't going to buy one anyway, unless I considered reselling for much more...)

6.6.2006 05:21 #20

lxhotboy

OzMick..... LOL
I cant believe you missed the point. I didnot mean just a snes game. That was just an example so no i actually didnot show a lack of need for backwards compatibility in my post. Snes isnot the only system that has classics people like to play. As others stated tekken series is also a classic along with metal gear solid, devil may cry, resident evil, etc....too many to name, we would be here all day. LOL

Also i dont think sony will increase the price either. They are not stupid. They are already getting debates over the current prices that are all over the tv, papers and magazine articles. I do think they need to think about the price more though. I dont have a problem coming up with the money but is it really worth paying that much more for a ps3 than the next system. People can say yes, which i probably lean towards believing myself, but i am going to have to see a big reason to pay all that extra money. And i am referring to graphics somewhat but mostly the lineup of games will be the deciding factor to me so sony had better bring it and back up all that talk.

6.6.2006 05:36 #21

pirkster

Why are the XBOX fanboys/Sony haters getting their panties in a wad?

There's no "problem" with using a true chip rather than emulation. Cuts time off development, allowing PS3 quicker to market, and allows them to back up their promise of having full backwards compatibility.

Alot of you are guilty of premature speculation.

At least they're sticking to their promises. Micro$oft is already redesigning their chip due to the well-documented overheating issue, and they didn't keep their promises of what features they would have on their models (they flat out lied about HD-DVD.) At least Sony is concerned about keeping their word. Not only will the PS3 arrive with the specs advertised, they also won't have the supply issues as with the failed XBOX360 launch. They don't have the chip shortage like they did when they launched the PS2. The Cell is a mainstream chip that IBM has committed to using in their high-end servers as well.

And... by including the PS2 chip, this opens the door for already existing modifications. This is all good news. Don't understand where the "premature speculation" is coming from.

6.6.2006 05:55 #22

AIM2Shame

Existing modifications? You know this will be one chip redesigned just thrown onto the main board.

Failed XB360 launch? Selling out isnt a failure, neither is the current supply demand still going.

If you have PS2 games you wish to play obviously you already have a PS2? Really no Sh*t.

Keep raising the price sony, let xbox out sell you again in australia. $1000 for a console you keep adding needless features to for the price to remain the same shows how idiotic you really are.

A $400 difference in nextgen console hardware is a alot of money.

6.6.2006 07:07 #23

vegeta66

i've been planning on buying a ps3 ever sense i got my first ps2 when it came out in like 2000 i believe, i'd be willing to throw in a alittle extra $ to still be able to play the great games of the ps1 and ps2 era.

and for goodness sakes, quit your dam bitching, and start your own "sony haters" thread.

6.6.2006 07:08 #24

vegeta66

do i have to remind you that sony has outsold every system, for the last 11yrs.

6.6.2006 07:13 #25

jutsu

SONY PS3 price is CRAZY, too expensive. But, i believe PS3 will have good games, and after some years, the price will drop. the game developer will be able to maximize their games audio+graphic quality.
look, ps2 games got better graphic and audio every years.

i`ll buy PS3 when SONY able to make the "cheap" version (like PSOne, PS2slim). i just hope SONY will increase thei built quality, PSOne and PS2slim really crappy, the PS2slim lenses completely broken after 2years.
i really dont want to repair my BluRay PS3 in 2 years...
expensive... maybe i should buy Nintendo Wii (akh, i prefer Revolution)

6.6.2006 07:28 #26

gogochar

I will now buy PS3, knowing it will play my old games. At least Sony is trying to provide backwards compatibility. The only problem I can see with playing my old games is the controller. But that is what most can say is a temporary problem. I get used to controllers pretty fast. So, no real problem there.

6.6.2006 08:00 #27

ChromeMud

I wish people would stop deluding themselves that the PS3 is worth the cost compared to it's rivals.

'At least they're sticking to their promises.'
A major delusion or what!So far they have said :-

1)2 HDMI outputs for dual screen 1080P display.
2)4 ethernet ports so it can be used as a Network Hub.
3)Twice the processing power of the 360!
etc...etc...

Ken surely promised a lot and undelivered and it's not even out yet.Most developers will be using 720p as 1080P will sacrifice too much processing power,the CELL ain't all that!Let's just see how it actualy compares when it comes out.Expect a naff version of XBLIVE,sub-par games on release with game graphics that are not superior to it's competitors,most probably worse.As for the controller,'CHEAP RIPOFF' comes to mind,same goes for it's XBLIVE copy.
As for the 360 overheating,ask other owners if they are having problems.I left a 360 on for 24 hours to see if it died while playing Oblivion and no red lights of death appeared on it.
By putting the PS2 chipset onboard the PS3 may mean draining even more watts from your power supply. Unless it has power management onboard which is highly unlikely,this could make it the most expensive console to play in terms of juice use!
Never mind the failure rate of adding even more complexity to the motherboard,excess baggage or what!
Let's see if the PS3 is a Foreman Grill after all!

The 360 upscales and filters the graphics to improve xbox1 games where as the PS3 will display all the jaggies that PS2 owners already suffer!
Personaly,I don't play old games I've beaten to death already and the classic games that you can download on the 360 is a bonus.

In terms of value for money,if I were to buy a console this Christmas it would be a Wii and/or a reduced price 360.
PS3 or new PC....no contest!
I rest my case.

6.6.2006 08:41 #28

sammorris

Hmm, backwards compatibility was expected, but this raises costs for them yet again. You'd think someone would have got round to doing this by now, wouldn't you?
I will be buying a PS3, but not until the price meets my price to satisfaction level, which for a PS3 would be a maximum of about �250. Got a long wait then! I'll probably get a Wii to keep me busy, but that means even less spare money, so maybe the PS3 will have to wait until it's �200.

6.6.2006 11:35 #29

tystar

OK, Now why does everyone want to slag off either Xbox or Playstion?? Lets just look at each system on its on merits.. I've had all the systems and I have by choice chosen the 360 because of XBOX LIVE. same reason i had the XBox. Until the PS3 hits the shops I will reserve judgement as I've always learnt that it is better to test first then decide. If the price is the reason for making a choice then so be it, dont bitch about.. if brand's your choice so be it, dont bitch about it, and if you want the best games then buy them all. You'll always have the choice..
That's my 2 pennies worth done. thank you

6.6.2006 12:02 #30

sammorris

Well done. Why can't we all just get along...

6.6.2006 13:56 #31

ZippyDSM

the PS3 WILL not have such a quick blow job of a release as the 360 nor shouldit ahve the hardware troubles,I have not dout it will have troubles,the price is its frist problem the system itself is a monster and full backwards compality to me is a must.

Besides PS2 emluation is a bitch at best,sicne the emulation sceen hasnt made one yet it must be a pain to emulate for thus hardware to run PS2 and PSX stuff makes sence plus it will runn better give you more comaplity sure it will hike the price up but this beast is already at its max of 600.

6.6.2006 19:16 #32

svtstang

Tystar, if only more ppl saw it from ur perspective....

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Fanboy = Retard

6.6.2006 21:33 #33

nonoitall

Quote:how many of us still play PS1 games on the PS2 consol? NOBODY!!!That's pretty much all I play - I just got the PS2 for the DVD player and *just in case* I ever wanted to play a PS2 game. A big part of the console's appeal is its ability to play a potential buyer's existing library.

6.6.2006 22:59 #34

sammorris

Hang on, wasn't the Emotion Engine 128-bit? And the Cell is 32-bit isn't it? There's a slight problem there...

7.6.2006 00:04 #35

ZippyDSM

sammorris
Not realy with all the manufaqtoring teqniues they have now adays the PS2 chipset is probly 1/2 or less the size of the PS2 mobo so the only issues would be bridgeing.
Also with software patching it can fixon the fly any issues that pop up.

mc_unique
I paly all the great PSX games on my PS2,thos games beat the snot out of the best and brightest the PS2 has to offer....

7.6.2006 07:25 #36

sammorris

No what I'm saying is that I heard there were few PS2 emulators because it was near impossible to emulate a a 128-bit game on a 32-bit CPU. That problem still holds true for the cell doesn't it? Or is that 128-bit too?

7.6.2006 07:29 #37

ZippyDSM

sammorris
I am not sure,I would guess the Cell would be a pain but wiht multi core CPUs it can be emluated prehaps.

As for PS2 emluation it seems the basic hurdals have been overcome

http://www.pcsx2.net/

Its as bad as older DS emlautors bad frame rates iffy compality,also the emluation sceen aint what it used to be so its takeing longer for some thigns,but then the PS2 is hellish to emlaute for.
It will probly take another 5 years to prefect if not 8

7.6.2006 07:51 #38

Cinnjerm

"(they flat out lied about HD-DVD.)"-

At what point did microsoft say anything about HD-DVD besides saying an addon was on the way. Infact, i distinctly remember people compliagning that they were going to stick with dvds.

7.6.2006 10:00 #39

Cinnjerm

"The Cell is a mainstream chip..."-

Where are you getting this information from. The cell processor was just developed only a year or two ago and you probably couldn't name one product besides PS3 that utilizes it to this date thats available to consumers. There's nothing mainstream about it at this point.

"A $400 difference in nextgen console hardware is a alot of money."-

Yeah tell me about it. Especially when considering that atleast graphically there isnt going to be a discernable difference between the two.

"do i have to remind you that sony has outsold every system, for the last 11yrs."-

Do i have to remind you that microsoft was right behind sony in sales on its VERY FIRST SYSTEM. Maybe people forgot that, but when xbox first came out they were starting from scratch. Outselling nintendo( a pioneer of the industry) is quite an accomplishment for only having released one system.

7.6.2006 10:14 #40

sammorris

True, but it was the same for Sony when they started with the Playstations. The previous kings of the hill are now one company and in third place. Congrats to both Sony and MS I say.

7.6.2006 10:19 #41

ZippyDSM

the cell is a multi core CPU 8 in total runnng at 4+ GHZ
its a 64bit CPU

the PS3s Ghz I dont know its most likely it will be 1.5-2.0Ghz and its a lesser Cell CPU so it only uses 5 or 6 cores this is of corse to cut coasts and frankly its a monster of a CPU it will hanadle everythign ..

Anyway its only slightly diffrent than other Multi core CPUs the speed is rated by all the cores (meaning 8 cores at 4Ghz is 500Mhz a core? anyway the speed is not to imporant),also it seem the PS3 cell CPU is the main CPU there is no GPU persay everythign is routed into data "pools" detremined by the software.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/playstation3.ars

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/398003679631/p/10

I am not 100% on how the PS3 works so dont whine at me for being wrong :P

7.6.2006 10:36 #42

sammorris

Last time I h eard it was 7x3.2Ghz. How dyu know theyre 64-bit? Aren't they based on IBM PowerPCs?

7.6.2006 11:03 #43

eliteal

it dont really matter what sony do or what price they going to sell at
as they know that it will sell
unfortunatly for most finding the �� or $$$$ to buy the system when it hits the shops is going to be a major wallet surgury for most
but as what always happens with sony ,m$ etc the consoles few months down the line will be cheaper
heres hoping it is as good as they say it is
and hopefully will play all backward games

7.6.2006 11:58 #44

ZippyDSM

sammorris
check one fo the links,they talk about the Cells aritecture,so the PS3 is 3.2 by 7 thats not bad at all,I wonder how wide the CPU is *L*

they seem to be useing a 64 bit arc type but I culd be wrong *L*

7.6.2006 14:35 #45

sammorris

I hope they do, it doesnt make sense otherwise, like having an Athlon xp x2 (albeit x7 instead). If there's one area that can take advantage of xx-bit in games, it's consoles.

7.6.2006 14:48 #46

ZippyDSM

Ya ,I dont see why soem are complaining about the PCU being broken,so in order to run stable it has 1 less core and runs alittle slower,big deal with these new CPUs even 1000Mhz wont make much a diffreance,and 1 core out of 8 aint nothign either.

I wodner how thier goign to cool it ...mmmmm
You know the DC had simple liqduid cooling I wonder if they are goign to do anyhtign fancy for the PS3

7.6.2006 14:54 #47

sammorris

Slow and Broken? Hah, NO. So what for the local read speed, cell may not be stellar, but its 7 cores versus the 360's three. Nuff said.

7.6.2006 14:56 #48

ZippyDSM

sammorris
and unused by most luanch titles,I wonder if they are even bothering useing the 64bit features to *L*

Well even if the PS3 has 7 cores Audio and VIdeo use thos cores to so it balances out to a 4 CPU core ,2 GPU core and 1 Audio-PU.

I wodner if they will find software tricks to speed up how it tlaks to the cores and such its going to be neat to watch it evolve.

I have a brain...I think......

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7.6.2006 15:13 #49

sammorris

Audio and Sound are separate from the cell are they not? Besides, normal CPUs are woeful at doing graphics (hence why no-one uses software rendering) and the RSX is actually quite good.

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7.6.2006 15:23 #50

ZippyDSM

sammorris
From what I have read the the mobo is built around useing the cells multi core goodness for all Prossessing ,meaning the Cell CPU is split into aeras and thos aera are used for GPU and APU as well as everything else.
Bascily Ninvida built the video chipset on the mobo to use thos extra cores,most of the bandwidth issues of old seem to have been met.

I cant seem to find a site thatbreaks down how the PS3 works but then I guess so far only sony realy knows *L*

7.6.2006 15:30 #51

lxhotboy

Quote:Do i have to remind you that microsoft was right behind sony in sales on its VERY FIRST SYSTEM. True they were behind and give them credit for that but not "right behind". Long way off.

7.6.2006 19:46 #52

ZippyDSM

from my stand point the Xbox is 1/4th of all gameign mabye a bit less,The PS2 is deffently half of it just for the sheer number of games and you would be suprised at what critics call medicore games are acutaly fun and intresting titles.

The Nintendo team has at least from GBA/Cube/DS makes 1/3rd of it.

Bascily from the games I ahve palyed and want to paly

1.PS2 is number one
2.Nintendo GBA/DS/Cube
3.PC
4.Xbox

5.Wii
6.360?
7.ANYTHIGN ELSE (I want tor try and get a DC and a saturn sometime)
8.PS3 (price reasons)

7.6.2006 20:13 #53

Cinnjerm

Maybe its just me, but I the kind of person that, more or less, believes seeing is believing. I'm not buying in to the hardware specs for PS3 until I see one working. I mean really, let's just be honest. Until you see one running all these hardware specs and stats mean absolutely nothing. I said this before, bluray as well as cell processers are unproven technologies. How is someone gonna be sold on technology they have no prior knowledge of working. Hey, that's just me.

Bottomline- reinventing the wheel aint all what it's cracked up to be.

7.6.2006 22:48 #54

sammorris

PC comes at the top of my list because the widest variety of games is available, and they can look better than any console, the 360 and PS3 included, even if it's a bit expensive to achieve that. It also allows the use of computer monitors without an adaptor box (which will drop some signal quality), and as you're aware I'm sure, you can get a retty high definition image on a PC monitor for far less than a TV. I still use a CRT, and there's only a couple of monitors around that can output a higher resolution, and even then you need a cutting edge graphics card to even display it.
You won't see a 42" plasma doing 2048x1536, and neither can you tell the PS3 you want anti-aliasing, HDR and the likes either.

Second are the fun consoles, like the GC, N64 and Wii, they may not be cutting edge with technology but the games are fun to play, and that's what matters.

PS3 comes third because it's a representation of all that's good in a future-ready machine. Even if it can't keep up with a PC, it's a lot cheaper, can output some still amazing looking games, uses the PhysX system and supports Blu-ray games and films. That's something not even a new PC will do for any suitable price yet.

8.6.2006 00:38 #55

ZippyDSM

I have found myself bored with most PC games more than I have been bored with console games *L* mabye I am becoeming to cranky :P

Cinnjerm
We have seen it running(E3),altho thats not the "street" model,the specs change all the time so I am not drooling over it,however I am interested in how its built,and how it will preform,for the msot part I think it will run 70% to what they say it will do,sony is knowen for hypeing up the ass,the 360 was 60% only becuse of the quick launch hardware issues witch by now have been fixed I hope.

8.6.2006 02:16 #56

djeazyg

Why do people still think price will be an issue? Look at what people paid for the XBOX360. When MS couldn't produce them fast enough people paid more than $1000 for that system. Almost all parents these days will do anything to shut there kids up and if that means $600 for a PS3 then that�s what little Johnny will get to make him happy and SONY knows this. Kids are so damm spoiled these days. If I was 8, 10, 12 and maybe even 15 years old I would be the same way and I would not let up on my parents until I got a PS3 with games.
I myself will wait until little Johnny gets bored and mommy and daddy want to sell his PS3. A lot cheaper that way.

Somebody also said something about "unproven technology"�.. True��but�..Little Johnny doesn�t care about that. He just wants one and that is all he knows. He don�t care if it is made out of dog crap, he still wants one.

9.6.2006 18:39 #57

hoju

arrrg..you guys sound ridiculous...do you know how much it would cost to have 7 power pc cores??? REAAADDDD about cell first...it only has ONE REALY power pc core..the rest are SPE's..they arent real cpu's..they are only able to carry out simple calculation in one thread...the main power pc cpu is merely telling the spe's what to do...you cannot compare this to 3 dedicated CPU's as in the xbox 360..it just doenst make sense...if you were going to do that..the 360 would win becaues it acutally has 3 dedicated power pc cores as oposed to ps3's 1. and again...its RIDICULOUS to compare them...Toshiba co develepoed cell because cell has very promising applications in media such as tv image processing or medical imagary...as for physics..THEY HAVE NO IDEA..it is all up to the programmers now to develop some completely different engines to simulate physics on the cell.

9.6.2006 20:56 #58

sammorris

We sound ridiculous? If you're after a flame war then ask a moderator for one and he'll give it to you. Please don't stroll in here mindlessly criticisng anyone else's point of view just because you disagree with it.

SPEs are CPUs, or they wouldn't process anything would they?, You do have a valid point, but 3 full cores isn't the be all and end all. I wouldn't mind betting the whole system comes across to be at least as powerful as your precious xbox... I could do this all day, but I won't.

Physics on the cell won't be tooo hard because it just means using PhysX, that's one thing the PS3 does have in common with PCs. Toshiba have no idea? Funny, I always thought they were a big profit-making company. Obviously not!

10.6.2006 02:24 #59

hoju

Sorry if i came off rude on my last post..i read it over this morning and i do sound like a jackass..my bad.

sammoris, you do make good points, however, clearly, if you look at the achitecture of the Cell and it's SPE's, the spe's are in no way similar to a processor. I dont even have an xbox 360 by the way. I was just stating that Xbox does infact have 3 dedicated cores UNLIKE the ps3's 1.

Also, Toshiba IS a large profit-making machine. HOWEVER..Toshibs does in no way NEED the Cell to do physics for it. The cell was developed with multithreaded encoding-decoding, image processing and advaced light filtering in mind. And in business, you do what is best for YOU..not another company. Toshiba couldn't care less if Sony made the Cell do physics. Why would they?..These two companies are duking it out for next gen DVD supremecy.

Also, though i did sound like a jackass..in no way did i undermine the performance of the Cell. Frankly, I have no clue, i was just pointing out what has already transpired with the Cell and the uses it was initially developed for.

One cannot compare the two processors unless they acutally DO get their hands on the cell as one post already mentioned. Its just funny how i get roasted for pointing out some facts about cell while others get away making blatantly wrongful accusations about an unproven technology.

10.6.2006 07:41 #60

ZippyDSM

hoju
Frommsot of info I have seen they mention nothign about SPE,however it dose make scence,since if sony could hobble togather a 8 core CPU ADM and intel could do a 6 core ,last I check 3 cores are the highest "normal" CPUs can go.

Do you have any good links for info on the cell CPU? ^^

10.6.2006 08:15 #61

sammorris

no actually it's 4 I think. Intel's Woodcrest has 4 tmk.

10.6.2006 08:43 #62

hoju

Here ya go zippy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)

lol..good old wiki.

No doubt Cell is a remarkable piece of technology. The multitasking capabilities are endless as the example with the set-top box shows. I just wanna see how sony uses it :)

And yes, the new Woodcrests are going to contain 4 cores.

10.6.2006 10:27 #63

HALTRON

Oh dear, Read: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32343

Shame.

12.6.2006 21:24 #64

ZippyDSM

sammorris
last I realy checked CPUs was a eyar ago so 4 cores aint that big a jump,I guess at tis core the cell is a CPU built around multi threading unlike most normal CPUs that are normal CPUs hobbled togather onto one die.

hoju
Frommy limited understanding of thigns they are goign for a full multi tread CPU and software unlike the hoode podge thats the 360,that alone should make it run at least twice as good as anyhting with half the specs.

HALTRON
Sony is Aragant enough to screw up and fudge some specs,in all CPU speeds will be adjusted on the fly untill they get it right and even 1Ghz wont ammount to anyhtig much,as for other HarDWare flaws meh I dout they want to do what MS did but frankly theres no telling there so full of themselfs,anyway when it dose come out fanboys will rape it to pieces and such so we will know soon enough if this monster will run right out of the frist generation box *L*

12.6.2006 23:13 #65

sammorris

You need to start being more comprehensible!!!
That article is written in completely the wrong fashion, and I have no faith in it whatsoever, it sounds like a pissed-off 12 year old wrote it, whether it's true or not. The RSX has been a source of angst for me, it really has! Then again, I'm pro-PS3 but pro-ATi, so I'm in a difficult position from that standpoint.
If I see another article about that from somewhere other than the Inquirer, I'll happily digest it. But too many anti-this that and the other stories have come from the Inquirer proclaiming doom and gloom when that hasn't been the case.

12.6.2006 23:59 #66

HALTRON

Just to show i am Unbiased:

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/711/711617p1.html
http://eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=65384

13.6.2006 03:51 #67

ZippyDSM

HALTRON

Whats old is new again,No one douts sonys analness about beign truthfull,however will it work,he answer is yes it will stand on it sowen legs in tiem the trouble being is how crippled will it be at lauch and how are they going to handle thatThe 360 is just now starting to limp on its owen leg.

There are jsut to many rumors about the PS3,thus its best to wait and see whatthe deal is.

13.6.2006 06:22 #68

HALTRON

I suspect that the PS3 will turn out a decent games machine in the end (perhaps not the powerhouse that some think). What it really comes down to as a wise man once said is the games. Having been a user of both PS1 & 2 i feel it now time for a change, so i think i'll just stick with my PC for my games kicks. (get a kick ass GPU).

13.6.2006 07:11 #69

ZippyDSM

HALTRON
thats a Ok choice,there are quite alot of new and old PC games that run however the PC simpley wont be getting games like it used to thats why I am hestant to plop alot of cash into mine,I wantto get my new mobo and CPU runnign for that I need 190 worth of ramm then I will be done with upgrades for it for 3 or so years.

For gameing I can tag a Xbox ,get a repalcement DS,get a DC or Saturn or hell even a N64 and build my collection up.

13.6.2006 07:49 #70

sammorris

What we must remember here is that, 7 cores or not, 3 cores or not, these machines are a fraction of the cost of a PC, and even though they're powerful on paper, if they were that good, they'd cost a lot more than they do, even with the Blu-ray problems. Despite the fact that PCs upgrade continuously, pursuing that brings you far better gaming experiences than consoles do, and that always will be the case until consoles cost more than PCs. The new desktop I'm looking at may only have 2 cores at 2.2Ghz rather than the 360's 3 at 3.2, but heck it'll be a lot faster.

13.6.2006 08:25 #71

hoju

I couldnt agree more. These proecssors are amazing. ALOT better than what most people have (especially me)... but..there is a reason desktop cpu's cost more. If these cpus, both the xbox 360's or the ps3's, are really as powerful as each company says they are...the cpu's alone woud cost twice as much as the console itself is worth. Yes, sony and microsoft are loosing money on every console, but are they really as stupid as to loose 50 - 70% of the actual manufacturing cost of the console?

It's like cake. Some snack cakes like little debbies or others claim to be..say...strawberry filled and tastes better than cheescake. HOWEVER, we know that the strawberry isnt real and is most likely artificial because it would cost too much if real strawberries were used. It can never taste as good as a homemade cheescake made with REAL strawberries.

Okay..that was a horrible anaolgy, but you get the point..actually..you might not :)

13.6.2006 11:39 #72

sammorris

Precisely. Different market or not, if these were as good as desktops they'd be costing a lot more. Of course, AMD and Intel must make a killing on their CPUs (since X2 4400s are FX-60s that didnt make the grade, they're still not going to be selling them at a loss, and since they're the same CPU, FX-60s must cost far less than 4400s do to buy to make.) However, RSX for $70? Come on, The X1900XT can't be anywhere near that cheap to make.

13.6.2006 12:19 #73

ZippyDSM

sammorris
the reason its cheaper is becuse of price rigging and puting soem fo the burdan on software sales,I wouldnt cann them cheap and the Cell CPU while amazeing is not "normal" thus will be a pain to run windose and if it cant run XP theres not point in calling it a computer Linux is great in all but XP smahs's it to death with tis compalibty on hardware and software.

the Ps3 is a mosnter and I cant wiat to see how it fares!

13.6.2006 12:22 #74

sammorris

Oh I've no doubt its powerful, but in a different league. PS3 games run nothing like Windows games so it's not easy to say. Heh, if you removed all the chains from running games in windows for PCs you'd get a lot more for your money with CPUs and GPUs in gaming too!

13.6.2006 12:25 #75

ZippyDSM

sammorris
ture ture ,XP is a monster and takes power to run anythign else is "extra" its a shame no one has gone back and mae a simple GUI or soemthing for games to boot from like the older DOS stuff,but even then dos was a OS and it had its limits.

And now adays games on the PC rely to heavly on XP or M$ new mosnter OS to run...blah

13.6.2006 12:40 #76

sammorris

XP a monster? wait until vista. 2GB of RAM recommended?

13.6.2006 13:45 #77

ZippyDSM

sammorris
it is a mosnter it cant run all my PC games,and SP2 is fickle and screwed with my hardware and software and drivers ><

13.6.2006 14:02 #78

sammorris

Whilst the latter is true, a PC is only as good as its hardware...

13.6.2006 14:06 #79

ZippyDSM

sammorris
youve had troubles with SP2 as well? its so bad I reufse to touch it and MS has desided to drop Sp1 suppoort and havieng a full SP2 upgrade or nothign choice ;_;

13.6.2006 14:17 #80

sammorris

Meh, no biggies, my friends have suffered worst, because they bought it. I suffered the OEM system "no CD included" problem so got a copy of XP after my first reformat. I get told off by M$ abt it every so often.

13.6.2006 14:20 #81

ZippyDSM

sammorris
I realy wish they wuld break SP2 into smaller parts so I cna skiip the boardband limits (I tried patchign it dose notwork) and drvier mmmm "protections" it feels liek they are forceing you to buy new hardware ><

13.6.2006 14:28 #82

HALTRON

@ZippyDSM

When you say they place broadband limits, are you talking about the number of connections the windows firewall will allow you to connect to? Just disable windows security centre in administrative tools.

@ALL

DirectX 10 is gonna be vista only and vista being a massive resource hog means your gonna need serious power. I see AMD are releasing 4 core cpu's for servers late next year, with the desktop models to follow early 2008, each supporting DDR3. This sounds more like real next gen power.

http://www.reghardware.com/2006/05/03/amd_quad-core_roadmap/

13.6.2006 23:06 #83

sammorris

There's this fantastic website that allows you to download all the windows updates in .exe format if that;s any better for you, I've got it bookmarked on my home PC, so I'll give you the link if you' reinterested. Sounds to me like they're programming DX10 to be 64-bit only, to make sure you need Vista to run it. Even though my GPU then won't be DX10 ready, I'm confident it'll be able to play most of the new games that come flying at it.

13.6.2006 23:50 #84

HALTRON

I believe that DX10 is available also in the 32bit version of vista, so don't think it's 64bit only. I would be interested in the link however.

15.6.2006 23:43 #85

sammorris

I would have thought if it works in Vista x86, it would work in XP...

16.6.2006 01:37 #86

HALTRON

Windows XP is a continuation of Windows NT Technology which in itself was a departure from the old DOS based versions of Windows (98, millenium, etc). Vista is a whole new OS build from the ground up (hence why it's taken over 5 years to produce). I'm not sure why DX10 won't work with XP, whether it be becuase of technological incompatibilies or if M$ wants another excuse to force people to upgrade. But i do know that it's nothing to do with either 32 or 64 bit computing.

16.6.2006 02:09 #87

ZippyDSM

HALTRON
I have tried that and it never worked I ahve tried it 3 times with 3 diffrent version'sthe limits were still there with that said the software and ahrdware oddiest remain.

sammorris
Dont be greddy share the link :3

You guys are right if they made DX10 for the basic Vista then it shouldnt take much for the mod/hack/ect groups to bring it over to XP.

16.6.2006 18:25 #88

sammorris

Yeah sorry mate, I've been having difficulty finding it.

Here we are:

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/

17.6.2006 00:11 #89

HALTRON

ZipyDSM:

I run XP SP2 with broadband and i have to say that i am not limited by SP2 at all. In fact this is the first i've heard of this problem. I know that there is a crack for the windows firewall (assuming peoople wanted to keep it active), but it's, i find best just to deactivate the firewall all together. Apart from this i can't think of why SP2 is limiting your speed.

This is better talked on a different forum.

@ALL
Read the link:http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30451

Just though you's might ne interested.

17.6.2006 00:11 #90

howy_2005

folks....we've strayed from the post's topic...

good conversation and all.....but let's start a new thread for it, don't you think?

i know i'm a newbie and all...but seriously, stick with the post topic, that way folks looking for this kinda stuff can find it under a post rather than stumble ypon it through another topic.....

after all, that's what they're for.....

20.6.2006 00:39 #91

sammorris

Yeah, as a news article though, they always stagnate, and since your post is 3 days after the last, it may be better to just move on. Not much more to say unless anyone thinks of something!

20.6.2006 00:56 #92

howy_2005

exactly....

20.6.2006 04:42 #93

ZippyDSM

HALTRON
try useing Edonkey I know its not great and all but the effect hits it the most(50-80%),it dose at least a 10-30% hit to BT,it was rathering annoying at the time 60 a month for cable net and anyhtign that effects speed is a no no *L*
mabye they have tweaked it over the last time I used it.
The lasty tiem I tried SP2 was last year sometiem when I had cable net,I am on dailup now(moved and no choice of other).

THe limit to open connections is what is 90% of the problems and I tried all the fixs and they didnt do anything(yes the fixs said they installed ok and such).

20.6.2006 07:13 #94

HALTRON

What you have to remember about the Edonkey network is that you really need a static ip address to use it, did you have a static ip address when on cable using SP2? At this time what other apps where you using and did they work better? Whilst on cable did you go back to SP1 and use EDonkey? Did this work better?

21.6.2006 00:01 #95

sammorris

Eh? A static IP? I now have a static IP and notice no difference in performance compared to when I had a dynamic one, and I even have a highID (because I'm not using a router! ;-) )

21.6.2006 02:31 #96

lxhotboy

I dont even know when the last time the topic was touched on. And the bad part is that a lot of the people posting have been here long enough to know better. Open a new thread please. Thanks.

21.6.2006 02:37 #97

sammorris

Does it really matter? This has moved off the news page now.

21.6.2006 02:43 #98

Nephilim

Say goodnight Gracie............

Forum Rules! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
My movies! http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/Rephaim
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

21.6.2006 08:09 #99

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