Spain outlaws all P2P file sharing

Spanish Congress announced a new legislation that outlaws all P2P file sharing on personal computers owned and operated in the country of Spain. Congress unanimously approved this legislation as a civil offense where users caught downloading anything via P2P for personal or commercial use will be fined the amount lost by the licensee due to the download.

The government has also stated that they will single out the ISPs who facilitate the use of P2P file sharing. They believe they have the technology to block P2P traffic and will fine ISPs who allow this traffic to go through.

Spain has also suggested a tax levy in which most forms of digital media will receive a higher tax. CDs, DVDs, flash drives and even mobile phones will get hit with a tax penalty merely for the ability to load illegal content. They have said that the money collected by these taxes will go towards paying back owners of copyrighted materials. This begs the question, if you tax media prior to copyright material being loaded on it, who determines where the tax goes? Appears to be a situation of putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

Source:
TMCnet

Written by: Dave Horvath @ 29 Jun 2006 6:12

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134 comments

coleken3

Wonder if other countries will follow suit? Makes you wonder what else they can tax.

29.6.2006 07:05 #1

HALTRON

"They believe they have the technology to block P2P traffic and will fine ISPs who allow this traffic to go through. "

This sounds a little vague to me. They either know or don't know, there's none of this believe crap.

29.6.2006 07:28 #2

Cinnjerm

Seems stupid to tax people on the assumption that they're going to load illegal media onto a disk and then arrest them when they do. Cause if you dont load media on it, aren't you in fact wasting your tax dollars. "All tax dollars go directly to the music and movie industry, donnot pass go, donnot collect 200 dollars."

29.6.2006 07:41 #3

Cinnjerm

If the MPAA and RIAA are being paid money from taxes reguardless, seems unfair because they're caking out whether anyone downloadsd illegaly or not.

29.6.2006 07:43 #4

llongtheD

I guess now they should impose a heavy tax when we buy a car, because we might drink and drive in it. Or maybe a tax on pens and pencils because we might plagiarize something. Or how about on spray paint, cause we might vandalize something? Penalizing people for crimes they might perpetrate?
This has got to be the single dumbest piece of legislation I have ever heard of. Sounds like Spains lawmakers are even deeper in the pockets of big business.
This is getting scary now. Just think if any large corporation wants taxes for possible future crimes. It sets a very bad precident. Say goodbye to your freedom, in a few years, large corporations may control everything we do.

If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water.

29.6.2006 08:16 #5

GrayArea

Listen to the sound of Spain's gvmnt rolling over completely to the media cabal. Pretty sad really.

29.6.2006 08:17 #6

DVDdoug

Actually, we have a similar tax in the USA, with one BIG difference: The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 made it legal to copy audio recordings for personal non-commercial use.

There is a "royality" collected on audio recorders and blank media. This includes blank CDs that are labeled "for audio use" and CD audio recorders. But, the royality is not collected on regular blank CDs or computer CD burners, because they can also be used for recording data.

29.6.2006 08:48 #7

Irish13

If something like that came to Canada I would be very annoyed. We already have a tax on blank media so if they want to shut down all P2P as well I would love to see a mass cancelation of your internet service. We have two main suppliers here Rogers and Bell. A great way to protest would be for 10,000 or more people to cancel their service at the same time when a law gets passed. This would put the ISP's in a panick and start a real dialogue in the press about what's really going on.

29.6.2006 09:10 #8

hot_ice

What a lame effort employed by Spain. A tax to curb piracy, by charging innocent customers for it, this has the stench of lobbyism all over it.

Anyways, it comes to show how bribery can affect just about anything in legislation.

Shame on the Spanish Congress.

29.6.2006 09:26 #9

DVDdoug

>>> will be fined the amount lost by the licensee due to the download.

Ha! NOT A BAD DEAL!!!

So, if I get caught with an illegal song-download, I only have to pay the regular price?

The OEM version of WinXP pro is about $150 USD. If I steal a copy, it's free if I don't get caught. If I do get caught, I only have to pay for their actual loss of license revenue... That should be less LESS Than $150 since I don't have to pay distribution costs, manufacturing costs, retail profit, or any penalty!

P.S I don't actually steal music or software.

29.6.2006 09:27 #10

OzMick

That is exactly what I was thinking. And by having this fine set at what the software is worth, it probably indemnifies you from future lawsuits if you get caught and cough up, so it probably isn't such a bad deal, really.

29.6.2006 10:41 #11

Jamaal10

Quote:That should be less LESS Than $150 since I don't have to pay distribution costs, manufacturing costs, retail profit, or any penalty!

A positive way to look at it, but you know that they're going to pull out all of the stops as far as the price goes.

29.6.2006 10:41 #12

mystic

the bigger issue is that they will procicute you weather it isa legal download or a bootleg what happens if your sharing something with a fellow devloper to crate a game or just a video then you get fined for doing your job what a load of crap it really smells like someone got paid off to pass this not to mention the taxes that are going to be added just because you could download to it so there goes all their Ipod sales in spain not to mention laptops even tevo or my childs psp would get hit... so what spain has done has made their own country men take a step back away from technology because the will have to pay more in taxes just in case the go rouge..... all I can say is WOW....

29.6.2006 11:01 #13

sammorris

HOLY CRAP! No rest for the downloader!

29.6.2006 11:53 #14

espial

This is totally absurd. Not all P2P traffic is of the so-called illegal variety. The 'bigger hammer' approach is doomed to failure. I would guess Spain will become the leader in research and deployment of encrypted networks.

29.6.2006 12:35 #15

jziman

Sad. I wonder what this world is coming to.

29.6.2006 14:25 #16

neo1000

It`s time to start thinking of other ways to share files.

29.6.2006 14:51 #17

munx

WOW. My jaw dropped reading this. I guess those damn spaniards don't want to embrace technology. Thats why they suck nuts at the world cup.

29.6.2006 15:56 #18

Douglar02

it wont stop p2p sharing

29.6.2006 16:01 #19

tjohns

Does this mean that all Spaniads who DON'T get arrested for P2P violation can claim a tax refund at the end of the year for the media they've purchased and used "legitimately"???

Trev

29.6.2006 16:01 #20

Ballpyhon

@ llongtheD you forgot about guns and ammo. they have to tax those too alot more so in order to pay out to the victem's relief funds when murderers kill inocent people. it all boils down to the fact that rich people want to stay rich while keeping the poor man down.

do you really think that anyone who makes over $500 k a year (most of the supporters/beneficiaries of these rediculous acts) is really going to be impacted much if they lose a few hundred thousand dollars over a lifetime? they probably wouldnt even notice it if someone doesnt say "hey, where is that money at?" at least compared to someone like myself who only makes $20k a year. of coarse i would make a fuss over loseing a few hundred dollars, but if someone took 50 cents from me do you think i am going to call the authorities and file charges?

29.6.2006 16:09 #21

macignosh

Shame on spanish legislators! Shame on the S.G.A.E., the real spanish "maFFia"! Shame on the lame and greedy "artists" that support this nonsense (Teddy Bautista, Ramoncin...) As musician my music is under CreativeCommons licence and I encourage anyone to copy and distribute it freely. Long live the brave that fight this unjust law. To the Hell the "canon" (tax) on blank media! I love donkeys, so does it makes me a criminal?
So, be it! As catalonian (better than spanish)and creator myself I will always fight this stupid country.
Best!

29.6.2006 17:25 #22

themind

ballpyhon,
If 10% of the population took 1 cent from you, you would be pissed. (im all about downloading but i can see there side too).

29.6.2006 17:49 #23

A_Klingon

(Oh well, .....)

Isn't this the same country whose legislators actively endorse (and profit from) the tortuing and slow slaughter of innocent animals in the Bull Ring?

(Forgive me if I don't stand up and yell "OLE!")

29.6.2006 17:55 #24

tefarko

all P2P is used for illegal sharing...
all e-mail is spam...
all websites are porn...

welcome back to middle ages... oh wait, where did The Inquisition happened?...

29.6.2006 18:07 #25

Wild9

You can bet the EU aka the new Nazi Party, is behind this move..do as I say or else. Spain is just an easy target be it immigration or prohibitive file swapping laws.

I propose a ban on EU funding/wastage..

29.6.2006 19:07 #26

Wild9

It screams politics, i.e totally unrepresentative of the Spanish people and instead representative of yet another minority interested..

29.6.2006 19:13 #27

Wild9

I hope it's challenged in a court..I also hope these countries pay just as much attention to their immigration, health, education and transport systems as they do letting Big Brother control democracy..

29.6.2006 19:16 #28

nchantim

Oh, and after we tax digital media, then we have to tax removable hard drives, then hard drives in general, then any form of computing device that could conceivably ever be used to hold "illegal" files.

29.6.2006 20:57 #29

hermes_vb

Well, little by little we are being thrown back to the Stone Age...Will a photo steal my soul?

29.6.2006 21:06 #30

sisph

If your photo is copyrighted...yes. Yes, it will.

29.6.2006 21:52 #31

Ballpyhon

themind
10% of the population doesnt want to take 1 cent from me because its only worth a cent. if i made as much money as most these fools introducing these moronic laws (more money then one person could spend in a life time) and people who felt they wanted a chunck of what i have took it (and we all know they are FAR FROM STARVING and ist not stopping them from being able to pay the bills) i wouldnt mind that much. ask your self this, is taking an excess of money away from the already rich worse then taking money from someone needs it to put pay for the single meal that he is able to buy once a day, like myself?

29.6.2006 21:56 #32

keebles

This is crazy!!!! what are they going to do if someone uses a P2P program to download a picture that a kid made(not copy righted). Are their going to fine that person for the cost of the crayon that the kid used? Or maybe for the cost of the crayon sharpener. Or better yet for the paper that they used.

29.6.2006 21:56 #33

macignosh

@keebles:
Nay hombre! This nmoney will go directly to the real thiefs!!! >>>http://www.todoscontraelcanon.es/<<<

Basta!

29.6.2006 22:13 #34

Briantgb

I agree the spanish have gone to far, but isn't it the fault of the media producers, if they hadn't made blank CD's and DVD's so cheep then all of the P2P's would not have been able to afford to copy or burn off so many copies.
If they had charged an appropriate fee on top of the cost of the blanks and paid the fee into a bank from which all artists could be paid a fee for their work then all of us would be contributing fairly. The main problem is that the Big Guns want it all, exorbatant prices for the CD's and DVD's and a kickback from the sales of blanks.

29.6.2006 22:30 #35

natony

So, higher taxes on digital mediua devices. Does this mean the average Spaniard should feel justified in downloading a few songs illegally to recoup this extra tax?

29.6.2006 23:06 #36

UkSheep

pretty much sucks for any legal aspects of p2p, shame spain was always such a nice country, guess next year i'll have to be careful when i downlod southpark on holiday

30.6.2006 02:00 #37

sparkery

It's a shame freenet is so slow and cumbersome. Let's hope it matures into a more speedy alternative.

30.6.2006 02:03 #38

ackright

If I lived in Spain I think i would organize sit ins in movie theaters. I would also have staggered media free weeks throughout the month. Evey other week would be a family week. NO TV watching NO movie going NO rentals no corporate music. Id take everything back to grassroots. SCREW them! I'd hit them in their pocket, thats obviously their number one prioity. Good luck much love, emancipate yourself from corpate greed.

30.6.2006 02:41 #39

damo_red

doubt very much that they will stop p2p altogether... and wont this just increase the demand for copied dvds, cds from people who smuggle them into the country?????

feeding crime has to be worse then some dude sat at his computer, with a cup of coffeee waiting for a film to download!!!!!!

30.6.2006 03:22 #40

w8vem8ker

They may control the internet but they'll never stop the sneakernet.

30.6.2006 04:38 #41

gonzax

ok, first of all please stop saying stupid things about Spain right?

second, that news is very inaccurate. P2P is not illegal in Spain. What this law says is that in order to make a private copy you need to have the original, i mean, you can make a back up of one of your records (or whatever) just as long as you have the original whereas before it was legal to download a backup from the internet, that�s changed now and you cannot download it but that does not mean p2p is illegal, no way.

30.6.2006 04:54 #42

tranquash

That makes more sense @gonzax. But in any event, it's not the artist, it's the companys producing, distributing and marketing the ones that want everybody screwed. They're the ones making you pay such high prices for everything, and the ones that wouldn't allow a penny drop off their greedy hands.

There's no way P2P is gonna be stopped. Technology cannot be stopped.

At least that's what I think. :D

30.6.2006 05:25 #43

gogochar

1. This WON'T stop P2P file sharing.
2. A lot of the stuff that you can download from P2P networks doesn't involve copyrighted material. Our company sends BitTorrents on the programs that they want us to install on our computers. It's easier for them and safe for us. And this way is super legal. This was what BitTorrent was made for!
3. Spain made a poor choice. They might as well block off the entire Internet! Obviously the Spanish Congress didn't look at every possible angle to see how this would effect them.

30.6.2006 05:34 #44

gonzax

gogochar, please read my message above!!

internet is unstoppable and it would be absurd trying to declare illegal all p2p as there are hundreds of perfectly legal file sharing sites.
Prices are abusive but they never talk about that, its really sad!

30.6.2006 06:11 #45

ezyway67

so let me get this straight you buy a computer that is capable of file sharing....all is good....they tax you because it is capable of file sharing...would'nt this mean you paid for what you might download so there for its yours to download it seems to me that all this tax would achive is you pay before you download therefore it is no longer breaking their boneheaded laws....this would also mean that the movies sooks would have to goto the goverment to get their money.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

30.6.2006 06:48 #46

hot_ice

If I remember correctly, the Spanish have a celebration called the tomatina where they waste approximately 100 tons, throwing them at one another. That could feed a lot of people, notably the poor, but no! Let's senselessly waste food by bashing them on each other's heads, right....right...

As mentioned by the moderator, they infuriate the bull and give this animal a slow and torturous death, and also they are rude in hotels.

Well there you have it, is it a surprise the Spanish would enact a ridiculous law like this, look at their country and their pastimes. Fruitiness like that was bound to happen.

30.6.2006 08:21 #47

gonzax

hot ice, please don�t get offended but i can�t believe someone can be so stupid as to say what you just said.
Do you think everybody in Spain likes bullfighting? come on!
as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that.
tell me where you are from so that i can go searching for something stupid from your country to criticize it, sure there is something!

30.6.2006 08:36 #48

tranquash

Point made I think, is the fact that legislators all around are just passing bills without too much consideration. As they were elected by the people and in reality are working for the big bucks, not the very people that elected them.

So again, it's not the country but it's legislators.

Chuck

My mom taught me to share, how about you?

30.6.2006 13:21 #55

gonzax

"Do you think everybody in Spain likes bullfighting? come on!"

That not the issue, I don't believe we should torture animals by spearing them to a bloody death, whether or not Spaniards agree with that practice makes little or no difference, since it is still ongoing and nobody cares to put an end to it.

WRONG AGAIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE CARE ABOUT IT. FIRST OF ALL, IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE BULLFIGHTING IN THE NORTH OF SPAIN, THATS A TRADITION MOSTLY FROM THE SOUTH AND IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE AROUND SPAIN ABOUT BULLFIGHTING YOU WOULD FIND THAT A GOOD 50% WOULD BE AGAINST IT.
AS FOR MYSELF, WELL, I AM COMPLETELY AGAINST TORTURING ANIMALS IN CASE YOU ARE WONDERING.

"as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that"

Wasting a 100 tonnes of tomatoes is no laughing matter. I bet you wouldn't be laughing if you were starving in Ethiopia right of this moment, and you just wish that one of those tomatoes wasted could to you. No, of course not, you're not starving, so how would you know.

THAT�S CALLED DEMAGOGY. WE ALSO HAVE LOTS OF CELEBRATIONS WITH WINE AND ALL KINDS OF FOOD JUST LIKE MANY OTHER CULTURES IN OTHER COUNTRIES. WHAT SHOULD WE DO? STOP ALL THOSE CELEBRATIONS AND SEND THE MONEY TO ETHIOPIA? THEN, WHY DON�T YOU SEND ALL YOUR WAGE TO THEM OR WHY DON�T YOU STOP EATING AND DRINKING, I AM SURE YOU COULD DO WITHOUT A LOT OF THINGS AND USE THAT MONEY FOR THOSE PEOPLE. COME ON GUY, FOR GOD�S SAKE,WAKE UP!

"tell me where you are from so that i can go searching for something stupid from your country to criticize it, sure there is something"

Heaven; tell me what damning piece of criticism you find on it. Thanx.

HEAVEN? WHAT DO YOU MEAN, CATHOLIC HEAVEN? I COULD FIND MILLIONS OF THINGS IF THATS WHAT YOU MEAN.

Ballpyhon (Newbie) 30 June 2006 17:21
@ gonzax so tell me this, if you are allowed to have a backup of meterial you own, would it be violating copyright laws if you download a copy of software to have as a backup as long as you buy a copy of the software before you download it?

I GUESS SO BUT I REALLY CAN�T TELL YOU SORRY, LAWS ARE A BIT AMBIGUOUS SOMETIMES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

30.6.2006 14:19 #56

emugamer

This will just result in more lawlessness.....there will be a new cartel....a media cartel...there will be media lords with more money than drug lords. Take away what people want and they will find a way to get it. This could be the end of Spain as we know it. Smugglers will be passing media through terrorist cells and then Bush will intervene and bomb Spain....form a new military presence in Spain. Show them how people should really live. Oh...the inhumanity :-(

30.6.2006 14:22 #57

scorpNZ

The industry ,i.e RIAA and the rest of the suing morons could more than likley reduce the amount of piracy by 3/4's if they actually sold the product for what it's worth rather than decide what they think it's worth ,within six months of either a game or dvd,cd, etc being released the units have halved in price...lol...as an example here in NZ socom 3 release price with headset retailed at $129.95 less than two months have passed since release and it's now at $79.95 and with a Dick Smith VIP card there's a further 10% off,what i'm saying is they oughta sell the stuff for what people are prepared to pay to make piracy bought stuff less attractive since the software etc can't hold it's price anyway, but i guess that's just too simple for the dickheads

30.6.2006 14:24 #58

caffeine_

STUPID!!! So Techinically if i send a file (Legit) to my friend from my computer to his without a central server im screwed (if I live in Spain that is)

30.6.2006 15:07 #59

hot_ice

@gonzax

The bullfighting still goes on regardless of what you just splurted out back there: besides, I'm sure your self-concocted 50% statistic has a margin of error of +3\-3%.

Besides, I was talking about wasting food, not about the tangents you spoke of, wasting food just isn't right, people are starving.

As for heaven, they only take memberships.

Thank you, come again.

30.6.2006 17:55 #60

axmad

hahahha hot ice u r so funny man !! u r a joka!!
being serious i think this law wont last much.

"as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that"

Wasting a 100 tonnes of tomatoes is no laughing matter. I bet you wouldn't be laughing if you were starving in Ethiopia right of this moment, and you just wish that one of those tomatoes wasted could to you. No, of course not, you're not starving, so how would you know.

THAT�S CALLED DEMAGOGY. WE ALSO HAVE LOTS OF CELEBRATIONS WITH WINE AND ALL KINDS OF FOOD JUST LIKE MANY OTHER CULTURES IN OTHER COUNTRIES. WHAT SHOULD WE DO? STOP ALL THOSE CELEBRATIONS AND SEND THE MONEY TO ETHIOPIA? THEN, WHY DON�T YOU SEND ALL YOUR WAGE TO THEM OR WHY DON�T YOU STOP EATING AND DRINKING, I AM SURE YOU COULD DO WITHOUT A LOT OF THINGS AND USE THAT MONEY FOR THOSE PEOPLE. COME ON GUY, FOR GOD�S SAKE,WAKE UP!

now gonzax you just being a selfish. and u even have the guts to say wake up. U WAKE UP. hot ice salary wont do no good to the ethopian people but surely 100 tons of tomato would.

as for the spanish. i thought they were nice but now i think the are stupid dickheads for booing at ETO'.
never have i seen a complete talented person being boooed at because of his colour. it never happened in another country where a world class football star is being booded at. you might see a untalented black star being booed it. and those who boo are not many and just do it because they think that the star would play bad.but never a world class. ronaldo has also being booed at because of his colour and not scoring. I MEAN WAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE BEING WHITE OR BLACK??

30.6.2006 17:57 #61

gonzax

hot_ice
The bullfighting still goes on regardless of what you just splurted out back there: besides, I'm sure your self-concocted 50% statistic has a margin of error of +3-3%.

WELL, HERE YOU�RE RIGHT, I MUST CONFESS THERE MIGHT EVEN BE A MARGIN OF ERROR OF 4%, EVEN 5-6%, GOD, I AM A FUCKING LIAR!

axmad
now gonzax you just being a selfish. and u even have the guts to say wake up. U WAKE UP. hot ice salary wont do no good to the ethopian people but surely 100 tons of tomato would.

WELL, SURE, THEY COULD MAKE A REALLY GOOD SALAD!

axmad
I mean, what difference does it make to be white or black?

ABSOLUTELY NONE BUT JUST BECAUSE A FEW DICKHEADS IN A FOOTBALL MATCH SCREAM AT SOMEONE DOES NOT MEAN THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS RACIST.

1.7.2006 00:50 #62

PeterG969

thats not fair on the people who do not download or dont have a pc etc.

1.7.2006 05:04 #63

tranquash

Yeah, but remember, for all these #%*@$$**0s every single pearson is a pirate

1.7.2006 05:55 #64

Humphreys

It's not possible to make P2P illegal, thats how the internet works. I don't know who started this news thread but if it is true then Spain has effectivly cut itself off from the world (and I don't beleive that). Also, I would like to find a way to bill artists when I am forced to listen too or watch their material when I have NOT chosen to.

1.7.2006 06:48 #65

hot_ice

@Gonzax

Check please.

Outlawing P2P is ridiculous, how can you outlaw a search engine?

1.7.2006 07:13 #66

ChiefBrdy

"That not the issue, I don't believe we should torture animals by spearing them to a bloody death, whether or not Spaniards agree with that practice makes little or no difference, since it is still ongoing and nobody cares to put an end to it."

Agreed. The USA's ways is much better. Every year thousands of fat, shaved head, humpty dumpty rednecks in their stupid pickups desend on every hunting ground in the land. Mowing down birds, deer and everything else in their path, including people (at least there's some justice.) Then, on the side, we bomb and kill thousands of innocent people while turning a blind eye on genocide.

Spaniards celebrate life. In the US, money rules.

1.7.2006 07:15 #67

hot_ice

You are all missing the point. Seriously, it's not who's better than anyone else, it's the practices we commit ourselves to, that can change to benefit ourselves and others.

That's what I meant! Ouf.

1.7.2006 07:32 #68

Echolord

Comeon folks, the whole tomato/bullfighting thing is not even relevant.

What's revealing(IMO) about this Bill/Law is the taxing portion. The statist/leftist party came into power, and they are enacting a new tax to fund or make up for a budget shortfall. So much for liberalism and populism, this action is a hedge and protection of the major record, and movie labels, the cost being carried by the entreprenuers, who are trying t innovate and create markets, and consumers, who will be denied a legitimate and more Progressive, ie.. competitive market.

------
The whole hunting remark, smells like rank bigotry and ignorance. I'm not a hunter, because I just don't have the stomach for killing of any creature, however were it not for the "Rednecks/Hillbilly/Ingrates etc.., etc.. et al." The population of non-domesticated animals would outgrow the available feeding/grazing grounds, and the Government(you and I, by way of taxes) would end up having to pay thin the herds. Not to mention the predatory animals, who would turn to pets and scavaging from trash bins.

just my 2 cents,
no offense intended.

1.7.2006 10:43 #69

JaguarGod

Ha, I eat rednecks for breakfast!!!

Seriously, is this law for real?? All P2P would also mean networks like when business communicate and send memos, documents, speaches, etc... to each other.

And taxing media is complete garbage!!! If you tax it, you better make all the illegal stuff legal... This is a lose/lose situation for the people. You can infringe rights with pretty much anything. Are they going to start taxing paper?? What about hearing aids...those allow you to hear copyrighted material. These laws are very bad. If I lived in Spain, I would have preferred the banning of PCs, Phones, CDs, DVDs, etc....

I cannot comment on bullfighting and the tomatina since I do not know much about it, but I would support that more than these stupid laws even if it was just done to needlessly waste tomatos and bulls for a laugh...

As for tomatos for aid, I do not see how that would help. They are not going to fly them in because of costs, so it would have to be by boat. This means that the tomatos would have to be picked green, flash frozen and vacuum sealed. This would require a special plant being built. Then they would have to be shipped in ships with special containers to prevent each tomatoe from being damaged and freezers so the tomatoes do not go bad. After that, some plants would have to be built in Ethiopia to ripen the tomatos with nitrogen. Then there would have to be facilities that distribute the tomatos. That would probably be a multi-billion dollar expense for Spain. I don't see it happening.

Rather than that, I think giving the tomatos to poor Spaniards would be better.

1.7.2006 11:42 #70

Echolord

JaguarGod,

I think were of the same mind. This is an utterly bad Bill/Law.

1.7.2006 12:51 #71

daklaye

What is the matter with you two!!!. Its not about our Countries against one another its our governments taking our freedom away more and more each day. As long as we allow these assholes to continue what they are doing the more we are going to loose.Its not just in Spain,USA. but its happening everywere and as fare as people starving im seeing it here in the USA as much as in any other country. Look what happened when Katrina hit.Takes your minds back to the people that are causing this to happen. No Disrespect to anyone intended.

1.7.2006 13:31 #72

gonzax

goverments are full of assholes everywhere, that is the real problem!

but let me say it again. P2P is not illegal in Spain!!

1.7.2006 13:52 #73

borhan9

Quote:Spain has also suggested a tax levy in which most forms of digital media will receive a higher tax. CDs, DVDs, flash drives and even mobile phones will get hit with a tax penalty merely for the ability to load illegal content. They have said that the money collected by these taxes will go towards paying back owners of copyrighted materials. This begs the question, if you tax media prior to copyright material being loaded on it, who determines where the tax goes? Appears to be a situation of putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.Are they for real? How are you going to police this its not possiblie and brining a tax on digital media is the funniest thing ive heard this morning :)

1.7.2006 17:24 #74

Echolord

I believe the move makes more sense in light of this Reuters wire report.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-06-27T145440Z_01_L27821328_RTRUKOC_0_US-SPAIN-APES.xml

Their legislature imagines themselves to be no more than apes in suits. :D Which fits to a "T", since only a 2 year old could pass the anti-p2p with a straight face and a clear conscience. My suggestion would be for the "honorable" members of the Spanish whom advocated this law, would be to prove their self hatred by standing in for the Great Apes, who will no longer be provided sanctuary in Spain's Zoos.

1.7.2006 22:28 #75

hot_ice

The tax penalizes those who aren't responsible, and in my book, that's not fair.

1.7.2006 23:00 #76

nalljr

I cannot recall which Linux (red hat fedora or ubuntu?) developer was it, but they are recommending the use of P2P application in downloading their free product.

Does this mean, the Spanish government will penalize anyone who will try their OS?

2.7.2006 02:06 #77

edgarde

Quote:This begs the question, if you tax media prior to copyright material being loaded on it, who determines where the tax goes?This doesn't [url=http://begthequestion.info]beg the question[/url]. Please learn what this means.

I was going to comment that this sort of legislation is a sure sign of a corrupt, right-wing government, but since some idiot has already called this legislation "liberal" (again, please look this up), it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

2.7.2006 05:11 #78

tranquash

link doen's work anymore, but hey, apparently these great apes will lead the revolution against all working humans in Spain, that is.

2.7.2006 05:41 #79

fatjohnny

who gives a care about Spain. It is still legal in our countries unless you live in Spain which you probably dont and what you should be worried about is the possibility of other countries following Spain. Spain has passed the law and there is nothing we can do to prevent it so dont complain or just talk about Spain and just worry about your own country.

2.7.2006 16:36 #80

fatjohnny

whats the point in putting an extra tax on stuff that can be pirated. u can use a VCR to tape movies for free so why didnt they put a tax on the VCR, this is just bs.

2.7.2006 16:38 #81

hot_ice

Spain oh Spain, why you got to be a legislative pain! lol

2.7.2006 22:19 #82

keebles

Spain is just like spam(the meat)
(1) Nothing really goes with it.
(2) No one really likes it.( Unless you live in spain, and even then...)

No Mod in PS2
Maxtor 80GB installed with games on it
FREE HD Loader
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2.7.2006 22:29 #83

gonzax

keebles (Member) 3 July 2006 2:29
Spain is just like spam(the meat)
(1) Nothing really goes with it.
(2) No one really likes it.( Unless you live in spain, and even then...)

KEEBLES HEY MAN, YOU SHOULD ACCEPT THE HARSH TRUTH, A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE SPAIN, IT�S JUST THAT ABSOLUTELY NOBODY LIKES YOU.

3.7.2006 04:39 #84

sammorris

Alright that's quite enough of that! Spain is quite a cool place, but I just wouldn't want to live there - a) because it's too hot (even though you do get a siesta) and b) because of this! LOL. Keep the flaming for your own little wars outside of aD people!

3.7.2006 04:50 #85

hot_ice

@gonzax

Ok, we get it, you live in Spain.

3.7.2006 16:30 #86

axmad

he's aslo spanish. look at the name!!

4.7.2006 00:00 #87

sammorris

It's just a stupid n00b conversation and has ended. Both remarks were idiotic, but let's just get over it!

Well gonzax,

The following places may elaborate on the usage of the term everywhere: for exemple, your wet dreams, hhehehee, spring break, streakers, flashers, swingers, nudies, forest people, trolls, etc.

6.7.2006 13:30 #111

sammorris

Lol alright that'll do!

6.7.2006 13:59 #112

axmad

wet dreams is that the name of an xxx movie?? or u mean weting your bed with something different than urine.

7.7.2006 01:17 #113

sammorris

Lol ok, ok, enough!

7.7.2006 01:19 #114

gonzax

thank you so much Hot Ice, in my wet dreams there is always someone naked, oh well.. and in my not wet dreams too.
by the ways, what was this post about? oh, i remember now, adverbs and naked women, interesting stuff!

7.7.2006 04:05 #115

sammorris

People, I've tried to steer this on topic, but why am I bothering?

7.7.2006 05:21 #116

borhan9

@sammorris

Mate don't stress because this topic 100% is being monitored by a mod so when they feel that its goin no where they will take the appropraite action.

Edited by DVDBack23

"THE MEDIOCRE TEACHER TELLS. THE GOOD TEACHER EXPLAINS. THE SUPERIOR TEACHER DEMONSTRATES. THE GREAT TEACHER INSPIRES."- William Aruthur Ward

7.7.2006 14:44 #117

sammorris

Of course they will, but mods aren't all seeing eyes, they don't have like a 24 hour monitor that pages them when something's out of line with the forum rules. I just wondered to what extent such discussions are welcome on a public forum. I may be over-reacting, but better safe than sorry surely? I don't want to take a mod's job, that's just being an idiot, but helping them out doesn't seem harmful.

7.7.2006 14:50 #118

borhan9

@sammorris

Well we all help the mods out and theres nothing wrong with that. If you think theres something wrong with something someone has posted just click the report offensive post button.

Its as simple as that.

I understand that they are very busy in due time they will get to it.

If you think its not being dealt with effecintly just pm a mod with the link to the thread and they also can deal with it that way.

Edited by DVDBack23

"THE MEDIOCRE TEACHER TELLS. THE GOOD TEACHER EXPLAINS. THE SUPERIOR TEACHER DEMONSTRATES. THE GREAT TEACHER INSPIRES."- William Aruthur Ward

7.7.2006 15:07 #119

axmad

huh?? did i loose something?? i didn't find any of this posts offensive to be honest. just guys getting the definition of wet dreams right. lol

7.7.2006 15:55 #120

gonzax

i was just kidding guys, no offense intended to anyone, i think it is pretty obvious that it was all a joke between hot ice and me.
Ok, i�ll shut up forever!

8.7.2006 04:20 #121

borhan9

@gonzax

Mate i got the joke its all good. I was just stating a method of dealing with issues.

At the end of the day its the mods that decide.

Edited by DVDBack23

"THE MEDIOCRE TEACHER TELLS. THE GOOD TEACHER EXPLAINS. THE SUPERIOR TEACHER DEMONSTRATES. THE GREAT TEACHER INSPIRES."- William Aruthur Ward

8.7.2006 04:52 #122

JaguarGod

There are tons of links for the Spain outlawing P2P thing... Non of them are from news sources, but this could have been something that was not officially announced and leaked out of legislature. Just cause it is not on TV, does not mean that it is not true.

I say give this some time. This could go either way, or maybe it was a rumor started by the government to see how people will react.

8.7.2006 10:09 #123

hot_ice

I was reading the posts, and I am not sure what the fuss is all about; tangents do happen.

However, the topic regardless, is still being discussed, in regards to Spain, I think concrete evidence is needed rather than speculation.

8.7.2006 14:45 #124

Ghostdog

How can they just outlaw perfectly useful technology?

I understand P2P networks are mainly used for illegal filesharing, but still...
It�s a bit like outlawing the internet because it allows us to (illegally) share IP or facilitate terrorism (okay, maybe not quite, but you get my point).

14.7.2006 01:17 #125

axmad

you know guys.
i don't get it. if you download a movie from a p2p programme
is that illegal? what about different types of file like programmes and games. is that illegal??

15.7.2006 16:41 #126

borhan9

Mate if you dont pay for it then its against the law. Unless the software is open source or freeware.

Edited by DVDBack23

"THE MEDIOCRE TEACHER TELLS. THE GOOD TEACHER EXPLAINS. THE SUPERIOR TEACHER DEMONSTRATES. THE GREAT TEACHER INSPIRES."- William Aruthur Ward

15.7.2006 17:19 #127

sammorris

It is strictly illegal to download music and videos via P2P, but the technology itself IS legal, which is why torrent hosting sites and p2p program managers are up in arms, they themselves aren't committing crimes. People who submit the illegal material via those methods are the ones breaking the law, but people like the RIAA can't go after joe public in most cases, they're not worthy targets as there's too many of them and they're insignificant. They're chopping down a healthy tree to get rid of the diseased branches.

22.7.2006 14:45 #128

jaysfan

that sucks crap
hope no more countries follow

25.7.2006 15:54 #129

sammorris

Hope, but I'm not sure there's much of it...

26.7.2006 01:47 #130

craftyzan

Darknets are rebellious and are sneaky, the web is a big place, speeds get faster, files smaller, and as the bad laws proliferate, they get harder to enforce. There is a silent revolution going on... it's in the air...literally.

Crafty

4.8.2006 23:15 #131

Proximus

Wow. Spain need to talk to their neighbor France. I hear people want to legalize file sharing over there. Also, Im sure its an hoax but i heard about file-sharing insurance somewhere in Europe.

FW 1.50
32 mb
256 mb
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5.8.2006 00:20 #132

sammorris

You're right about all of those, Proximus!

Athlon X2 4200+, Zalman CNPS7000Alcu, Asus A8N-SLi SE, 2GB (2x1024MB) Corsair PC3200 CAS3, WD Raptor 37GB, Seagate Barracuda 250GB NCQ, Sapphire 512MB Radeon X1900XT, NEC-ND4570, LG DVD-ROM, NZXT Lexa, Hiper Type-R 580W.
See her at: http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/4346/10061530in.jpg
FEAR, Quake 4, Doom 3, Need For Speed Most Wanted @ 1600x1200 Max 0x16, UT2004 1920x1200 0x16 Max. Viewsonic G90f+ 2048x1536 19" CRT, Trust Silverline 5.1 Headset, Creative/Philips 129W RMS 4.3

5.8.2006 07:08 #133

dbo

I realize his is kind of anticlimactic, but this whole thread derives from false information. The legislative reform in Spain says nothing about p2p use for noncommercial purposes, which continues to be legal; if you're actually interested in the content of the reform, maybe you'd like to read about it:
http://www.elpais.es/articulo/cultura/Congreso/aprueba/nueva/Ley/... http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2006/06/22/cultura/1150971473.html, http://www.internautas.org/html/2565.html)
As for the Inquisition, maybe I should remind the user that brought it up that torture or death penalty are not practiced nowadays in Spain - much unlike the United States, for instance, where incidentally people are also getting busted for using p2p. Maybe there is a connection between Inquisition values and p2p banning, but Spain is not the right example. I mean, I wonder if it is the Inquisition that allows same-sex marriage or private marijuana consumption in Spain... something that you can see in barely three or four more countries in the whole world (the US not included).
I therefore strongly encourage users here to know what they're talking about before talking about it.

17.8.2006 21:54 #134

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