Nintendo Wii: All beauty, no brains?

A recent look at the released architecture of the upcoming Nintendo Wii it appears that chip maker IBM may have only given Nintendo an overclocked Gamecube.

The CPU from IBM that is going into the Nintendo Wii, dubbed Broadway or IBM 750CL appears to be nothing more than hopped up version of the Gekko platform that powered the Gamecube, the IBM 750 or G3. The only immediate differences appear to be that the chip is set to run at 900Mhz. All the usual suspects of chip features return as they were in the Gamecube's Gekko system. Paired floating-point pipelines for SIMD single-precision operation, cache locking so regular data does not get overridden by graphical data, floating-point-to-integer conversion in the load-store pipeline, two-wide dispatch, etc.

What this will mean for gamers can really only be argued by what the gamer wants out of Nintendo. I personally am still excited about the Wii and will probably own one to compliment my gaming collection. Nintendo in their press announcement never stated that they wanted to be the most graphically advanced like the other big two, but just deliver good honest gameplay. I think I can live with that.

Source:
IBM Datasheet (PDF)

Written by: Dave Horvath @ 31 Oct 2006 7:43

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97 comments

arcanix

It has been known for long that the cpu of wii will be pretty much only an overclockced gamecube. I remember some developer saying, that a game made with gc devkit works on wii devkit without modifications. But unlike 360 and ps3, nintendo doesn't sell wii's with a loss. And yeah, I'm still psyched about it, even though it doesn't rival with 360's and ps3's power. Motionsensing wiimote <3 :)

31.10.2006 08:34 #1

rihgt682

I don't care if wii doesn't have great graphic like ps3. if the gameplay is good that's all i care about. WII all the way. I just hate there new name but nitendo rocks!

31.10.2006 08:39 #2

kiiveri

i dont care much what grafics look, just that they arent terrible
and my one is allready ordered, just waiting december :)

31.10.2006 11:21 #3

anubis66

dont wait till december. check local stores at their open times. there will be plenty of more wii's than people camping for it.

31.10.2006 11:52 #4

oofRome

I thought the processor was operating at 729 mhz...

So I guess I can take this as good (but irrelevant) news.

31.10.2006 12:29 #5

mark5hs

at $250, Im starting to think the Wii is a bit overpriced. Its just $50 less than 360 and 360 has a much more powerful GPU and processor as well as high definition support, but dont get me wrong. Im buying a wii rather than a 360 because Wii will have better games.

31.10.2006 12:31 #6

anubis66

the 360 gives us nothing we've never seen before, nothing more than xbox 1.5. sure the graphics are alright but there almost nothing more to gameplay that cheaper things could give us.

31.10.2006 13:00 #7

rihgt682

i agree. I though the wii was going to be $200. But when i heard $250 i was like dang. But i'm still going to get it. I just wish it was $200.

31.10.2006 13:22 #8

handsom

This system would still be worth it to me, if it retailed for $300 for a base unit the way 360 does. Nintendo has really shown their focus on fun, unique gameplay with their DS; and even some of their gamecube titles. And a system with genuinely fun gameplay is worth more than the most cutting edge system in existence, IMHO.

I have a platinum 360. I got it opening night, and I'll be honest and say that I don't regret it at all. I have a Wii pre-ordered, and I look forward to getting it on opening night. But I honestly wonder which one will see more of my time in the longrun. The DS vs PSP battle has proven that graphics mean nothing next to genuinely fun gameplay, and that things like video playback are far from a primary concern, when selecting a game system.

900Mhz is MORE than they were originally promising, and most of us knew it was basically an OC gamecube with special controllers, honestly, looking at last year's E3, it came out that Nintendo was actually running some of the demos on gamecube dev units already. So it just doesn't come as a shock to me at all, but the 900hz, rather than 704 is a pleasant surprise to say the least.

31.10.2006 14:27 #9

limelight

Everyone, PLEASE do not base your buying decisions on graphics alone!!! It boils down to gameplay, and if that brand new PS3/360 game looks spectacular, but plays like crap, will you still play it simply because it has lots of eye candy??

31.10.2006 14:38 #10

ZippyG

I heard the Wii was going to be underpowered but damn...this is weak. I mean the GC wasn't a powerhouse in the first place, so I don't see how the Wii can hang with the 360 or PS3 even if it does have a few exclusives like Zelda. Fact is, nice graphics matter and matter a lot...just as much as gameplay. For me Nintendo peaked with the SNES and has been going downhill since then.

31.10.2006 16:46 #11

oofRome

Quote:Fact is, nice graphics matter and matter a lot...just as much as gameplay.
No, that's not a fact at all. Look at the Nintendo DS. Look at the PS2.
Quote: Nintendo peaked with the SNES and has been going downhill since then.
True. But thank God they're trying to do something different this time. The n64 was graphically awesome at it's time, but what happened? Not enough stellar titles. The Gamecube could match and surpass ps2 titles graphically, yet the PS2 reigns champion because it has/had a huge gaming library. Anyone who says that graphics is the most important factor really needs to take a look at the history of console wars.

31.10.2006 16:58 #12

jutsu

i think if Wii Graphic is as the same as PS2 or a little bit better. Its OK.

i like playing nintedo games, and i like the Wii's controller,

when Wii price drop to about 100USD, i will buy it

31.10.2006 17:43 #13

rihgt682

Quote:when Wii price drop to about 100USD, i will buy it
That's going to be awhile buddy. I think that wii can I mean WILL outsold ps3 and xbox 360. because they're doing something different for once and it's cheap, fun, family friendly, backware compatiable with all of there system. Most of all the games will be fun. I feel like kid again playing donkey kong and zelda. Good times with super Nitendo. I seriouly thought that NITENDO will die after gamecube but after that DS what a comback. GO NITENDO!

31.10.2006 17:57 #14

dazila

i think if Wii Graphic is as the same as PS2 or a little bit better. Its OK.----

Actually its 2x better then the gamecube and gamecube was better then the ps2 at graphicswhich means that there will be alot of differnce i reckon about the level of a Nvidia GeForce 6800gt 256mb

1.11.2006 00:30 #15

ZippyDSM

dazila
the GC is more powerful than the PS2....in all its more like a Xbox in terms of power.

1.11.2006 01:28 #16

Apathy0

^Exactly if devs took advantage of it, Gamecube would've had the best graphics of last gen and with the Wiimote, i'm definately getting a Wii!

1.11.2006 03:19 #17

handsom

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with the last couple comments; about the GC having the capability of being the nicest looking system last gen... It didn't. It had a 450Mhz, which was superior to the PS2. But it was far outdone by the XBox' 733Mhz and Nvidia Geforce3 equivalent chipset.

It was better than the PS2, and that showed somewhat frequently, but it by no means had the ability to be the best. Games that tapped into it to show the real power though; were far and few between, RE4 was a wonderful example though.

It's true, most developers didn't do too much with the graphics, but it's unusual for anyone but a first party developer to work that hard on one platform, so I can see why they never fully tapped into it. Besides, that was never the main point for Nintendo, they always focused on gameplay; look at their unique series over the last five years or so:

Smash Bros.
Pikmin
Animal Crossing
Zelda(Which until this new title, has definitely NOT been the prettiest series for a long while.)
Anything Mario

Some of these games are good looking, but they succeed based on gameplay; so it makes sense that Nintendo makes that their number one focus. A lot of people wouldn't mind if graphics was a close runner up at number two; I just don't want it to interfere with that wonderful gameplay.

1.11.2006 03:53 #18

ZippyG

I'd like to point out that the elements that made the SNES as popular as it was:

- Awesome game selection and quality.
- Substantially better graphics AND sound than Genesis, the main competing system at the time.
- Nintendo was focused on games that appealed to a broader audience at that time.

Now ask me if I see these elements in any system superceding the SNES and my answer is no. At least not all 3 elements at the same time in any given time.

The Wii has a dumb name. It's very childish...like Weeee. Right off the bat you alienate a lot of people.

Everyone is talkin about how "innovative and different" the controller is, but that's just going ot alienate even more people. Did we forget that the "innovative and different" approach Nintendo took with the DS handheld didn't exactly bring it back to is dominant position that it had with the gameboy?

I really liked Nintendo and they have some awesome game franchises, but I think that as of late the only people buying Nintendo's products are fanboys and people with a lot of extra money.

Graphics DO matter, not the only thing but a very big thing...when you are at a store, you don't notice "gameplay" so much as how awesome (or crappy) a game looks. I personally still enjoy playing 8-bit and 16-bit classics, but on a next gen system I want next gen EVERYTHING, that includes Graphics, Sound AND Gameplay.

1.11.2006 09:10 #19

MightyOne

Its too bad they didn't add a little more power to it.
However....from my experience...developers hardly use the full capabilities of any console.

My concern is the remote. At first glance it looks cool, but will it be ? Will you not get sick of swinging your arm around or whatever motions u need to make. Will your arm or hands end up getting sore after a while ?
Maybe it will it will be the cure for "Nintendo Thumb"

Can anyone confirm if the remote will is truly a sensational idea ?

1.11.2006 10:20 #20

borhan9

Well if they stated that they are not wanting to challenge the other 2 major gaming consoles then i think consumers have to realize that they are just making a console that they can afford or just that people from major companies such as IBM give hand me downs to other companies things that the companies don't want anymore they just upgrade it a bit and sell it off to the highest bidder.

1.11.2006 10:42 #21

handsom

@ZippyG(Any connection to ZippyDSM?)

As for the DS, what on earth are you talking about? The PSP was dominant for between nine and twelve months, before the DS started releasing it's good titles and took back more than the fair market share of the portable market. The PSP sells far less units (Both sytems and games) than the DS does. So, yes, Nintendo's foray into odd control schemes has done very well in the long run, despite their first year being rough.

As for gameplay not being noticed. Either you don't play much, or you aren't thinking of this word in the right definition. 'Gameplay' generally refers to controls; amusement; and overall fun factor. I'm not sure of you've tried many of the first party titles for the DS, but they're FULL of fun. Brain Age, Mario Kart DS, Super Mario DS, Animal Crossing: Wild World, and more. These are games that have a pure fun factor not found elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good lan party on CS and Halo2 on XBox Live, and I have even put in my fair share of time on WoW; but I can honestly say that Nintendo's fun factor and better gameplay is entirely evident in playing their first party games. And while not all of the third party titles are winners, there is even a more than fair selection of good ones there too: Trauma Center, Feel the Magic XX/XY, even Square is getting into it; Final Fantasy III, graphically re-designed.

The PSP has been losing support, EA announced that they have a few more titles (Ones they already started working on months ago) coming to the PSP, then they will be dropping out almost completely from it, due to poor sales. Ubisoft has said the same thing. Those are two of the biggest game companies in the industry, saying that they aren't able to make enough money on best selling franchises. I dunno about you, but that reflects some lackluster sales for Sony's portable.

I picked up a PSP on day one, and loved Ridge Racer, Lumines, and Wipeout. They are fun games. But I can honestly say, having tried the majority of the PSP's titles, I have never felt so compelled by anything on the system, as I have with the DS. Even Lumines, with it's Tetris-like addiction doesn't beckon to me every night the way that Animal Crossing no does. Nothing the PSP has compares with the challenge and addiction of Nintendo's Brain Age. And I just don't find the PSP's NFS titles(Pure garbage on this system, compared to the others) or even Ridge Racer to be nearly as fun as a good online match of Mario Kart DS.

The touch screen isn't a 'weird' way to play; it actually (in many games) feels more natural than a controller would. In brain age, you actually write in your answers in many cases, or the system uses it's microphone for you to speak some answers. Animal crossing makes inventory management an absolute breeze with the touch screen, much more natural than most games(Especially RPGs, ack!), and even Trauma Center(A third party title, by Atlus) shows that there are lots of ways to use the stylus that make a game more fun and intuitive than most controller based games.

So; knowing these things, why would someone think that the Wii's controller scheme isn't intuitive, or innovative? Have you ever seen a baby or a toddler try to touch the images on the screen? Try to interact with them? The controller used on the Wii is designed to make gameplay more natural, and simpler by allowing you to use the motions you associate with actions, to perform them; rather than odd combinations of buttons.

If a game can allow you to open a door, by physically reaching for the handle, and turning it; by allowing you to really cast out your fishing reel as though you're on the lake; or by swinging a physical object in a game of baseball- Do you really think that this game won't suck you in more than pushing a button or combination of buttons. Honestly, a game where I can physically swing the bat, parry with the sword's hilt in my hands, or carefully make the incision by pushing into the patient will suck me in, as a gamer and a person, so much more than pretty graphics will. Pretty graphics mean nothing if the character moves really clunky; if I have to press four buttons to pull out my gun, aim it, and fire it; or if I have to stumble over the buttons while trying to pull a new trick on a skateboarding game it will ultimately take me further out of the game.

Honestly speaking, by giving you control of a game, by using motions, Nintendo stands to bring immersion factors to entirely new depths that the 360 and PS3 may never be able to achieve. And I can think of no better company to do it, because Microsoft and Sony, while having good games, have never brought me the sheer, and real "FUN" that Nintendo's recent titles have.

-------------------------------------------------
Will the PS3 dominate the console market?
Maybe, if Sony lowers the price and stops lowering the hardware specs.
For News on this: http://www.megagames.com

1.11.2006 11:33 #22

ZippyDSM

handsom
I don't think so all I know is I feel sorry for zippyG my negative rep can sooo damage others :P
----------

PSP is dead sony never really supported it,it felt like they were waiting on the UDM format to take off but never did because they didn't support the PSP with games 0-o
plus the single nub setup hurts it as a easy port in all the PSP makes up for what is is lacking with non supported media playing stuff sony oh so hates 0-o

the DS is a solid system it might be less in terms of power but it has the ames GAME WILL ALWAYS RULE *L*
Gotta luv the touch screen for FPS's however wrteing on the screen in real time they should know better..its like Sudeki and FF12 to much to control or "not" to control on screen can get you killed to much..

------------
the motion setup on the PS3 is a last minuet change since hey lost in curt,its no better no worse than what it replaced,since the WII crushes it in innovation.

1.11.2006 13:12 #23

mark5hs

I know games are more important than graphics but consoles should not be a source of profit, rather the games and games alone should. The console price should be justified by its processing power and cost to produce not its library or innovation.

1.11.2006 13:51 #24

ZippyDSM

mark5hs
Well they did set the prices on the market or what it will sell for,they could do better but 250 for anew console is a good starting point,the 360 is still a hog pog and the ps3 is still to much.

1.11.2006 13:56 #25

oofRome

Quote:I know games are more important than graphics but consoles should not be a source of profit, rather the games and games alone should.I think Nintendo shareholders would disagree.

1.11.2006 15:29 #26

ZippyG

I don't think the DS has nintendo where it used to be in terms of market share when it was the ONLY handheld system on the market with any real support. The PSP isn't doing too well but it's still there and its a dent in the only thing that was/is keeping Nintendo alive besides pokemon.

Brain Age, Mario Kart DS, Super Mario DS, Animal Crossing: Wild World, and more - not really my cup of tea, and apparently not the cup of tea of most other people who play games, otherwise Gamecube wouldn't so far behind the Xbox and PS2.

Those types of games are not justification for purchasing a new console. They don't push any limits that matter to most people - graphics, sound, new ways of playing, online play, higher levels of interaction , etc. Bust-A-Move has a high "fun factor" and you can find a port of that game on just about any platform, but you're not gonna think about buying a new system just to play it, or a game like it.

I won't buy a $500 video card for my PC to play games that don't push its abilities to the max. If you wanna play fun kiddie games, download an emulator + roms and save yourself $250.

1.11.2006 17:53 #27

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
cant get Metroid Prime 3 on a emu, Mmm if GC emus didnt suck Zelda TWP might work on them *L*

1.11.2006 18:04 #28

anubis66

one thing i dont like about nintendo and the wii alot is the fact if a cheap and minimalist console proves to be a good money maker, then most company in the next next gen will just go with minimalist low-end graphics to make more money and not have to worry. things always get cheaper when possible, and i could see the whole next next gen being sh*t except maybe one console that may not fly high or do anything well past graphics.

1.11.2006 18:13 #29

ZippyDSM

anubis66
helllooooooo nintendo NEVER been about power,as long as they can have more quality games than anyone else I will get one.

1.11.2006 18:17 #30

oofRome

ZippyG: The GCN is fairly close to the Xbox in terms of sales. The ps2 is murdering both systems.
Quote:one thing i dont like about nintendo and the wii alot is the fact if a cheap and minimalist console proves to be a good money maker, then most company in the next next gen will just go with minimalist low-end graphics to make more money and not have to worry.You're mixing up "cheap" with "affordable", and "minimalist" with "innovative". And honestly, if the Wii prompts future consoles to be more diverse, than I think the industry as a whole will benefit.
Because on the other side of your analogy, with the ps3 being a money maker, We'll all end up paying 800 dollars for the PS4.
No thank-you.

1.11.2006 19:30 #31

ZippyDSM

oofRome
Nintendo always has it niche the Xbox found its niche as well as getting some PS2 owners that were not satfised with the PS2's power,the PS2 just had the most support in that it did the best.

its hard to pin if sony will reclaim where it was they and MS have made so many mistakes ,its the old hare and the turtle and hair might be fast but they have broken legs.... as long as the DEVs dont leave sony poeple will still eventually go to it...

1.11.2006 19:46 #32

cart0181

Consoles suck. Step up to the big leagues and get what's called a "Personal Computer." Then, if you really have to get a console game, you can. ;) Alienate someone by calling it Weeeeeeee!?? I don't think so, they're kids stuff anyways.

1.11.2006 21:40 #33

tabletpc

but consider this nintendo didn't say the processor was going to change they just stated that the console will have some new editions like the nintendo wifi connection built into the console more graphics power bluetooth web browsing i think 250.00 is a fair price because you get free sports games you get a complete nunchuk not half of one because you have to purchase the remote controller and the nunchuk seperatly and evenbetter you are not going to be charge money everytime you unlock a track or character like in sonys gran turismo hd

1.11.2006 23:24 #34

dazila

the only reason PC's run games is because povo peopel that dont buy a console can play it on the pc by the way "Personal Computer" dosent mean playing games it actually means for your needs like word procescing.Thats why consoles got invented have you ever compared what a PC can do with 300mhz n 60mb ram like a ps2....absoultely nothing but web browsing on dial up.and can only dream of running games that a ps2 can with that power.
Do not diss consoles.
by the way xbox isnt much stronger then gamecube which means wii again is about 1.8x better then xbox

Come and vote for which console you think will be the best just use this link:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/404298

"A Revolution will happend on the 19th of November",Formula 1 is the best motorsport

2.11.2006 01:27 #35

handsom

@ZippyG
Nintendo is still in almost the same place it was five or ten years ago. The difference is that now instead of weird, brandless ghetto electronic handhelds taking up that tiny fraction of market share, it's the PSP. Funny, but true.

Besides, if you stay current on electronics news, you might recall that Nintendo is doing SO well with this portable that they've ditched the idea of doing another 'gameboy' revision altogether. This thing is doing even better than they fathomed.

@dazila Quote:he only reason PC's run games is because povo peopel that dont buy a console can play it on the pcOkay, this has been said in other threads you post in, you've got some great facts for Wii fans; but you also tend to go into some pretty far fetched opinions, which you post as though they are known facts.

Computers are for poor people? Did you actually think about that statement as you were writing it!? Computers are MUCH faster, have a different selection of games almost entirely, and are much more expensive for a decent one(Aside from the PS3). If I put the same $400 into a pc, that I did on my 360, I wouldn't be able to get to even half of it's graphical capabilities in a game. How does that make a PC user poor? Geepers, the lack of logic in that statement astounds me!
Quote: by the way "Personal Computer" dosent mean playing games it actually means for your needs like word procescing.Thats why consoles got invented have you ever compared what a PC can do with 300mhz n 60mb ram like a ps2....absoultely nothing but web browsing on dial up.and can only dream of running games that a ps2 can with that power.
Do not diss consoles.Well, actually, when you consider that the majority of PS2 games are being run in 512x384(NTSC Standard Definition resolution), rather than even the basic Windows Standard of 640x480, and you can ONLY play games on a console..... Yeah. The PS2 has an unnatural advantage, because it has less pixels to render on MOST games. Really not that big a difference. I'm a multi-platform user, but seriously, if I had to nail it down to only having ONE, it would be my pc, otherwise I wouldn't even be here posting this.

Quote:by the way xbox isnt much stronger then gamecube which means wii again is about 1.8x better then xboxWelcome back to random opinions 900Mhz isn't 1.8x better than 733Mhz. And the XBox not being much stronger than Gamecube, yet another odd statement. There are a lot of titles that would stand to prove you wrong on the two systems being even close in graphics, honestly the GC only had a couple titles at all with what might be called 'really good' graphics(Such as RE4). The old XBox is much better than the GameCube. Aside from raw speed, the XBox was capable of rendering methods that the GC couldn't even understand, things like bump mapping, normal mapping, anti-aliasing. Little things that make a games visuals look better by leaps and bounds, on the fly. So even if you put aside the difference of speed(450MhzGC vs 733MhzXB) the xbox STILL had other major advantages over the cube, and only a *couple* GC titles even came close to debate; because programmers used pre-rendering dithering techniques, which can be used on any hardware just as well, and is the same method of 'graphical cheating' used on many late model PS1 games, to give the illusion of better rendering than the system was truly capable of.

Like I said dazila, you've got some great info; but let's please keep the strong opinions and such out of here. It reeks of fanboyism.

2.11.2006 04:39 #36

ZippyDSM

handsom
No tiem to fully read your post but

the Wii is a 1.5 system as much as the 360 is,the PS3 is the only wholely 2.0 maybe 2.5 system,altho that comes at a price,altho I still feel the 360 is a piss poor hog pog,the WIi is more or less "stable" as is.

2.11.2006 05:31 #37

handsom

For me, the thing about the Wii, is that it's doing what the DS did. It's like Nintendo is looking at Sony, and saying to themselves "Well, we can't beat the little bugger; but we can always move onto a different playing field."

They're staying afloat by changing their functionality, and attracting a crowd that Sony and M$ don't. It's an incredibly wise move that kept their handheld division afloat, when it very likely may have died in the face of the PSP.

As for the 360, considering that the latest PS3 specs are incredibly comparable; I don't see it as a 1.5 step. And if you've looked at interviews with John Carmack(The greatest programmer the states have to offer, responsible for revolutioninzing gaming over and over, he made Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, each time he writes a new engine, it does things previously unheard of) and Hideo Kojima(I suspect there are enough fanboys out there to know who he is, a genius programmer who loves finding new ways to innovate his games); they have both publicly said that the 360 and the PS3 are so close, that they would rather program for the 360; because it's DX style code is so much easier than the PS3's, which may keep it from reaching the same potential for a year or more.

We're talking a difference of around 5% hardware-wise, for speed. And time will tell on the disc format; THAT part I'm actually interested in, because as much as I'm enjoying my 360, I believe that not using at least an HD DVD drive for games was a mistake; and it may cost them a lot in the longrun, depending on whether game companies feel they need to use that much space or not.

2.11.2006 06:37 #38

anubis66

well i've lived with an fx 5200 for 4 years, if not more, and i am so tired of these graphics. my 5200 does as good if not better than what i've seen the wii do, and that is just discraceful. the product is chincy, and whats with this innovation? you want me to get up of my couch when i play to relax to stuck the contoller onto my head or between my legs to blanence some crazy sh!t that makes no sense and has no real benefit. i dont wanna fail myself like a dur da durrrr all over the place infront of everyone, aswell as tiring myself out and being bored with it after 30 minutes. when the price goes to 150, i may get it, but by then it will be so much more outdated than i'd care for.

2.11.2006 06:51 #39

handsom

lol, the Wii is 250, and I'm betting that your computer costs a pretty penny more than that, even if you're running a little old 5200, I'm guessing you're using at least a $400 valued system.

As for 'flailing about', you obviously haven't watched the gameplay clips. Simple arm movements hardly constitute flailing, honestly speaking, DDR shows more flailing than that.

As for wanting to sit on your couch, and zone out half dazed; that's your call. That is what some people prefer, and those people will probably be big 360/PS3 customers. Nintendo isn't trying to reach them. Nintendo is trying to reach a different croud, since this gamble proved to be more than profitable with their DS.

You can scream 'alienation' all you like; and it may be true to some degree. But not all of us are content to lay back and 'veg' for our games; and as strange as it may be to you, to see people using something other than two miniature joysticks; just keep in mind, Nintendo has done weird successfully with the DS, they know exactly what they're doing.

lol, besides; if the system does fail miserably, there are a good number of decent titles available at launch, and the system will be worth a fortune later (Just like my Virtual Boy, thank you ebay!)

Really, I'd like the system to do well, and I do think the first year will be rough, but it's always like that for Nintendo systems; it's after that first year that they really shine.

2.11.2006 09:15 #40

ZippyG

Quote:Nintendo is still in almost the same place it was five or ten years ago. The difference is that now instead of weird, brandless ghetto electronic handhelds taking up that tiny fraction of market share, it's the PSP. Funny, but true.In the same place it was 5 years ago - that I can believe - it hasn't really made any progress and doesn't keep up with its competition. Nintendo now reminds me of how Sega was when they released their Dreamcast system, a last ditch effort. So what? They're going to convert into a handheld-only game maker and withdraw from the home console market altogether? Who knows?
Quote:Besides, if you stay current on electronics news, you might recall that Nintendo is doing SO well with this portable that they've ditched the idea of doing another 'gameboy' revision altogether. This thing is doing even better than they fathomed.It's funny that you mention that, almost comes across as being sarcastic because they've made so many revisions of the gameboy already that you begin to think nobody over there heard of the word innovation. It's a safe bet to say that the world will see at lease one more Gameboy revision before Nintendo goes poof, or surprises everyone and retakes their #1 spot.
Quote:lol, the Wii is 250, and I'm betting that your computer costs a pretty penny more than that, even if you're running a little old 5200, I'm guessing you're using at least a $400 valued system.It's worth noting that a PC is a multi-purpose machine while a console is a specialized unit. The console's lower price reflects is limited application.
Quote:But not all of us are content to lay back and 'veg' for our gamesIf you're interested in being phyiscally active, playing video games isn't the first choice of activities that comes to mind. I work out to stay in shape, and I play video games to relax and unwind - most other people probably are similar in that respect.

2.11.2006 09:51 #41

anubis66

yeah, its my relaxation. some wii things would be ok but still get tiring after holding up or out your arm fo so long, and aiming is quite shakey on fps games. i could do tony hawks downhill jam and enjoy it because all you do is tilt and sway. i wonder if wii owners will have one strong arm and a little one?

2.11.2006 11:50 #42

oofRome

Quote:yeah, its my relaxation. some wii things would be ok but still get tiring after holding up or out your arm fo so long, and aiming is quite shakey on fps games. i could do tony hawks downhill jam and enjoy it because all you do is tilt and sway. i wonder if wii owners will have one strong arm and a little one?
are you kidding me? THDJ uses as much motion sensing as the Sixaxis does on THP8.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...5605&pr=goog-sl

Quote:If you're interested in being phyiscally active, playing video games isn't the first choice of activities that comes to mind. I work out to stay in shape, and I play video games to relax and unwind - most other people probably are similar in that respect.
If flicking your wrist is considered "physically active", than so should twiddling your thumbs. For the last time, you don't have to do exaggerated movements on the Wiimote and/or nunchuk to get the results you need. If you can't help yourself or have more fun doing so, then that's fine too.

Quote:In the same place it was 5 years ago - that I can believe - it hasn't really made any progress and doesn't keep up with its competition.
the cube kept up with the xbox, and it's the PSP that can't keep up with the DS.

Quote:It's a safe bet to say that the world will see at lease one more Gameboy revision before Nintendo goes poof, or surprises everyone and retakes their #1 spot.
#1 spot in consoles or handhelds?
It's also a safe bet to say Nintendo isn't going poof anytime soon.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/06AnnualReport.pdf
Heres the annual report Nintendo is required to release to shareholders at the end of their fiscal year. What do you see? Stockholders Equity at a 5 year high. Assets at a 5 year high, with total assets at over 9 billion dollars.

2.11.2006 12:40 #43

handsom

lol@anubis66. I just got flashbacks of some old mid-puberty humor.

Anywho - @ZippyG

You do so love to debate, it's a good thing.

Gameboy revisions, numerous ones. Yes, indeed. Do I argue? No. Why? Because they have, some useful some not. Every company does that. Why? Because they had no one to compete with at all. If you've got the only product in a particular market, then you're only going to make limited revisions, it's common sense economics. If no one will compete, and customers will buy, then don't put out more money and effort than you need to. Common sense for any company. Very much in the way that personal computers are made. Hardware manufacturers like NVidia and ATi find a way to squeeze 10Mhz more out of a chipset, and sell it as the new series for hundreds more; only a few models actually support new features, like newer DX versions, and even those differences are usually very minor. But like I said, competition and consumer expectations.

Most gameboy revisions did have new features, not big ones, but new features nonetheless.

However, the DS, and it's recent competition with the heavy-hardware PSP has proven that Nintendo does know how to diversify. Say what you will, but look at sales, and tell me that they're 'unique', 'niche', and 'alienating' ways aren't beating the PSP's numbers by miles.

Another notable interest, is that Nintendo has stated they have no plans to release a new gameboy, due to the DS' success. That's not to say they won't change their mind; like so many big corporations do; but it's an interesting statement nonetheless. Will we see another DS revision? Who knows? (I'm not a fan of the lite myself, but many people are finally happy with the size.)

Quote:If you're interested in being phyiscally active, playing video games isn't the first choice of activities that comes to mind. I work out to stay in shape, and I play video games to relax and unwind - most other people probably are similar in that respect.
That may be so for you, but many people have fun moving around. Odds are someone who truly works out, understands the endorphin high you get when you do so, and realizes how much more satisfying it can be. Your argument sounds like it does not come from someone who works out to stay in shape. Besides, since you have been busily quoting sections of my responses, let's go back to one you chose to ignore:
Quote:As for 'flailing about', you obviously haven't watched the gameplay clips. Simple arm movements hardly constitute flailing, honestly speaking, DDR shows more flailing than that.
No game out there is advertising that you will be throwing yourself about, it's simple arm motions, turning the controller, titling it, and occasionally moving it forward or back. I have yet to see any title show the necessity for a 540 backflip. But hey, you know, obviously moving your arms a bit constitutes a pretty hefty workout.

Also to be noted, a large portion of these trailers make it clear that many users will still play from their couch, sitting, and relaxing; with minimal movement. In case you haven't noticed the system doesn't monitor to make sure you're jogging.

Honestly speaking, this whole 'workout' claim is a joke. If you've been to an arcade, you've happily put more effort than these games are going to necessitate. I would urge you to check out some videos before pursuing this argument further, because it is entirely obvious that you are either grossly exaggurating out of deliberation, or ignorance. Either way, it's really very clear and proven that these titles are by no means 'exercise' of any sort. Most of them (wii sports aside) don't do anything to prohibit you from sitting down and enjoying yourself. Even the games that use a lot of motions for gameplay don't use big motions; you'll note on the video that the majority of them are small motions, minimized to make it more practical. And you'll never see someone holding their arm straight out for the games. But again, that comes with watching the videos that are all over the web, on sites like ign.com and gametrailers.com(This one has a LOT)

I honestly would suggest looking at the videos, regardless of your personal opinion on it; because some of your arguments are VERY valid; but others, like the exercise bit seem really far out there. Maybe it's just me.

2.11.2006 13:25 #44

anubis66

well the pictures nintendo give out are people going everywhere and thats what they expect with their games like warioware.

Quote:are you kidding me? THDJ uses as much motion sensing as the Sixaxis does on THP8.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...5605&pr=goog-sl
what are you talking about? i said i know and i like it for that. its not moving much out of place to get everything done on either system, and its looks alright on wii. things like call of duty 3 tho would cramp me having to be precise constantly and holding your arm out some. few wiimote applications are interesting to me.

But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because you're so busy going from a to z, that there's 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

2.11.2006 14:17 #45

handsom

@anubis66

Good response. I'm honestly not sure what pictures you're referring to on Warioware, but that will very probably be the most extreme title, look at the other warioware games; they've always been.... Different. lol.

As for holding your arm straight out with shooters like call of duty, it's possible, no one can verify. But most videos and images show people sitting as they play, usually sitting forward, with their elbow on their knees. I would imagine that is a good way to play, because it allows you to relax, and have your arm supported by your leg, while being comfortable, and not straining your arm. I've only seen one or two clips that indicate an arm ever being stretched forward. And they don't seem to indicate it is a regular action. Most clips show people holding things, with their forearm forward, and their upper arm down; much similar to the way that most people walk around comfortably while holding things. While I'm sure that there will be titles requiring more movement, game companies understand that Call of Duty players probably don't feel like doing ballet to cross through to the next trench.

2.11.2006 14:54 #46

dazila

hANDSOM::
You said that the wii isnt 1.8x faster cause the wii is 905mhz and xbox is 733mhz but you never thought about something elese.
Xbox CPU is a Pentium 3 A Wii cpu is a cpu that is designed for only and only games with alot more cache and buss speed etc.
A pentium 3 is not only masterd for Games but for apps aswell whihc means it will not do as well running at the same speed as a game cpu.
The CPU with the most Ghz is 4.0ghz but the fatsest on is only 2.93ghz ghz's dont matter that much anymore like 10 years ago

2.11.2006 18:40 #47

oofRome

anubis: Sorry I suppose I misread that you did not like the motion sensing in THDJ. My apologies, it was an honest mistake.

Addressing the "holding your arm out for too long" issue:
That's like saying you refuse to use a pc mouse because you have to move your entire arm. This is absurd. You don't need to have your entire arm free in order to rotate your wrist and move your hand.
So for games like Wii tennis, for example, I'll probably exaggerate and swing my arms once in a while if I feel like I'm going to smash my opponent. That would be a good way for me to get into the game and rub it in my opponents face. On the otherhand, in a game like Metroid Prime, I'll rest the arms and let my wrists and fingers make all the use of the precision wii-mote.

edit** In my embarassment for mistaking what Anubis said, I rushed to reply and didn't get a chance to read Handsom's response, which was similar to mine. Sorry for the redundancy.

2.11.2006 18:46 #48

ZippyDSM

handsom (Senior Member) 2 November 2006 9:39
its the architecture just because a system or vid card runs at nearly the same speed they all can have completely different visual effectsthe WII might be a 1.5 system or the "least powerful" but it will do up to date graphics well and thats all that matters since Nintendo has some quality devs left,everyone else tends to need the shock value of graphics to find there niche...

handsom (Senior Member) 2 November 2006 11:37
Carmack is on crack programming graphics code is about all he can manage and even then he dose not see the forest for the trees....

MMMmmm ok so the PS3 might not be a 2.0 system but it is a 2.5 (PSX+PS2+PS3+BR+MEDIA(DVD,BRmoives)+Online content=2.5) simply because of BR it will play a factor in things the 360 is every bit a 1.5 (XbX+overhaul-BWC+dvdplayer+online content=1.5)system its like a upgrade in gaming rigs over a 4 year period of time it has some new architecture but game storage space is going to handicap them badly SOny has a stable plan for the long run MS not so much ,MS has only MS to blame for breaking its knees at the start,it can fix this is simple and effeitive hard Drive upgrades as well as a focused worth while plan to fight BR with HDDVD,with thos or at the least a HDDVD game paln the 360 is a 1.5 system in a power mad world,the WIIs world is not so power hungry thus can do well being a 1.5 system.

Again main reason the 360 is a 1.5 system is the lack of the HDDVD or at elast a plan to make laoding times vanish by useing the HD but they cant do that sicne the HD is stagnet at 20GB MS has scewed up but Sony thinking a 600$ console will do great is jsut as blind.
-------------
anubis66 (AfterDawn Addict) 2 November 2006 11:51
No offence but you sux...(or at elast your eyes do..mabye you are gettign old like me...HD RV I dont see a diffrance! its like bocky who would want these LCD tvs *L*....I kid I have seen a few diffrent types of LCD and HD TV,not impressed)....you do realize that the GC has more video options/architecture than a 5200? at least try and find a better card to be blind on....ggaaa....the WII is equal to a 7200 AGP limited to lower res but with the architecture tricks only the most sten video natzi can tell the difference on a reg TV after all the WII is not in the how big is my edick game its in it for balance quality/innovation/basic current gen graphics if you don't get it than keep to the PS3/360.

and we are going to so LOVE the PS3 controler where its going to be used as movement and dogging!!..oy....I would hope they both have sentivty controllers to where you can make it as flailing as possablse or not.
----------------
handsom (Senior Member) 2 November 2006 14:15
I hope the WII mopes up with the arrogant MS and Sony but in all...its like goverment until the population gets teed off to much nothing much will change unless like sega they screw up to much and have to quit themselfs,I am going to use Zelda TWP and Metroid 3 as benchmarks for quality WW had a high annoyance fator and MP2 felt shallow somehow if these games fail to be good I am not going to have much hope left as a gamer...to much quality is overlooked to get a game done the more qautliy vanshies the mroe a reason to qauit.
---------------
anubis66 (AfterDawn Addict) 2 November 2006 16:50
you must ahte mice then haveing to keep your arm up all the tiem *rolls eyes*
----------------------
oofRome
coudn't say it better :3
-----------------
handsom
I am hoping like when the N64 came out alot of options where given for that analog stick,since they have senors in them that detect motion I am pretty sure you don't have to hold your arms out,you can sit in normal gaming fashion and play normally or you can go gonzo and point at the TV for "immersion".
-------------------------------------
dazila
....ok..........lets see if I can make sence to you

the Xbox is handicapped PC focusing on graphic intense PC ports( and takeovers) as well as M(imature 17+) themed games,launch was 299
reason why the Xbox did so well is it found the PCless gamer niche(want'to'be PC gamers without the PC or without a powerful enough PC) and that niche of gamers that are happy with graphics alone.

the GC is streamlined console focusing on genreal gaming ,games for all ages teens and qaulity gaming,the GC launch was 199

The reason why the GC was able to go toe to toe with the Xbox was because the Xbox lacked quality games if the Xbox made better ties with frist party devs and with sega....there would be no dout the Xbox would have went toe to toe with the PS2..but sadly the PS2 out did them all,and that is where the PS3 is headed unless sony screws up some more...
----------------------------
oofRome

ah well we all make mistakes...altho the more vices in your head you have the more mistakes you will make 0-o

2.11.2006 20:33 #49

oofRome

???

2.11.2006 20:49 #50

anubis66

@oofrome
with a pc, my arm has slack and is going with gravity, aswell as an arm on my chair. my elbows rarely leave them unless typing. im a comfort freak to most things. two of my biggest comfort antagonists are symmetry and easy. these are a must for long sessions. the wii would be ok here and there for use with friends, but nothing more than something to compliment the other systems. so if i chose between getting a ps3 and a wii, its obvious.

2.11.2006 21:22 #51

oofRome

Well than I guess you're just a big lazy pothead. :-P

Really, though, I know ps3 is your system of choice, and I wouldn't try to change your preference.
I just thought it was unfair describing how one's arms would tire after some required action of "constantly holding your arm out some" when really that doesn't need to be the case.

2.11.2006 21:52 #52

emachine

To the guys saying ds is so good blah blah. What about vcs and lcs? And NBA LIVE 07. The only reason the game company's are not continuing making games for psp. Is piracy. Waaaay to much of it. It pisses me off because the psp IS the best handheld ever made. I mean don't get me wrong I like that you can dl games. But once people download them. They never buy them. If I dl the game I buy it. Just supporting the system.

Props to Ripper for the sig!
Cleveland Cavaliers 1-0. Next game friday @Spurs

3.11.2006 06:45 #53

emachine

Props to Ripper for the sig!
Cleveland Cavaliers 1-0. Next game friday @Spurs

3.11.2006 06:46 #54

oofRome

Quote:It pisses me off because the psp IS the best handheld ever made.That's a fact.

...

3.11.2006 08:02 #55

emachine

its all IYO... But I mean has the best graphics and the best games. Its like playing a ps1.8 on the go. So know its not a FACT your correct. But nor are your ramblings about the DS being god. (not knocking the DS very nice system). But I think the psp just was better made. *not starting a flame war*

Props to Ripper for the sig!
Cleveland Cavaliers 1-0. Next game friday @Spurs

3.11.2006 09:47 #56

DamonDash

Quote:psp IS the best handheld ever madeI agree with you on that also.The only reason Nintendo DS sell real good because of Kids.There parents don't want to invest alot of dollars for a home console so the cheap & easy way out is a hand-held.Nintendo does a real good job of targeting kids.

3.11.2006 11:59 #57

dazila

I dont know I like both I like the racing games on PSP and Mario games on DS

PSP DISLIKES:
Too big and chunky,too expensive
DS DISLIKES:
Graphics could have been a little bit better,Sound isnt loud enough

3.11.2006 14:49 #58

ZippyDSM

emachine
its also becuse the PSP is not sellign to well,and sony let the games stagnate,the DS has as much of a copy problem you just need the 100-200$ stuff to enjoy it with PSP only requires 50 or so in stuff.

the PSP is better designed but lacking the DS has the games thus wins.

3.11.2006 21:31 #59

ZippyG

Quote:#1 spot in consoles or handhelds?
It's also a safe bet to say Nintendo isn't going poof anytime soon.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/06AnnualReport.pdf
Heres the annual report Nintendo is required to release to shareholders at the end of their fiscal year. What do you see? Stockholders Equity at a 5 year high. Assets at a 5 year high, with total assets at over 9 billion dollars.Finally, some undisputable information has joined this thread. :)

Assets = anything a company owns, including physical and rights to intellectual material (IP). This figure isn't too relevant when gauging the financial health of the company.

Shareholder equity also has little to do with the company's financial health, as that figure just shows how of nintendo's money is provided by investors (stock market).

If you take a look at Page 15 of that PDF, notice the trend in "net sales", which would be sales prior to any deductions. This figure peaked in 2002, plummetted in 2004 then crept back up in 2006 - but hardly at an all-time high.

It's really hard to gauge the company's true status from such a report, because fudging those numbers is possible and done. I wonder how Sega's report looked before and after it released the Dreamcast.

3.11.2006 22:05 #60

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
stone cold G brother stone cold....
(puts that voice on a list of other to exstreminate)

Unless Nintendo screwed up as much as sega was,I doubt they will have any issues,they are not doing what MS and Sony dose wastering millions on R&D just to lose huge profits off console sales,my point being Sega messed up to much and paid for it if Nin didn't then they should be ok since they do things more streamlined.

the PSP could have been a better system if Sony put that 2nd nub in and supported it better but since they did not it has not done as well as it could have..

3.11.2006 22:43 #61

dazila

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:ZippyG
stone cold G brother stone cold....
(puts that voice on a list of other to exstreminate)

Unless Nintendo screwed up as much as sega was,I doubt they will have any issues,they are not doing what MS and Sony dose wastering millions on R&D just to lose huge profits off console sales,my point being Sega messed up to much and paid for it if Nin didn't then they should be ok since they do things more streamlined.

the PSP could have been a better system if Sony put that 2nd nub in and supported it better but since they did not it has not done as well as it could have..Sega were stupid enough to release a console way before it was actually due for eg. Nov 1996 N64 is released people pay $200 for it 1 year and one month later a new console comes out but its from the 7th generation the Dreamcast priced double the N64 tag not everyone would be willing to pay the N64 price again only 1 year later but double it people did alot! but sony waited 2 years after that and released a console double the power of the dreamcast and that is when sega got them selves in a pile of crap why:

A)They Didnt have the money to release another console since they released one only 2 years prior that.
B)They knew that everyone would favour sony more then them like in the past.
C)They knew that the Dolphin was coming AKA: Gamecube
D)If they released a new console it would had to have been a 7th Gen sure it could have been a sixth but by the time that would have come the 7th gen would have been on the doorstep.

They made a MASSIVE mistake which was written to be disaster to them when the PS2 came and Sega taught Nintendo,Sony,Microsoft a very very valuable lesson.

3.11.2006 23:17 #62

ZippyDSM

dazila
Sega was also fudgeing on funds and stuff the dreamcast not making up for the diffrance was only the other shoe falling,the Dreamcast did well however it(game sales) did not sell enough to sustain sega thru a whole 5 year period.

the PS2 is only marginally more powerfully than the DC,its almost like the diffrance in PS2 and Xbox the diffrenace.

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

3.11.2006 23:25 #63

tabletpc

well this isn't a surprise get on the ball nintendo already announced that they where not trying to compete this time with microsoft and sony and that there console will not be known for its hardware but what you can do with that hardware versus sony which is money money money money as there slogon this time but think about this when purchasing a wii you get

].the console

2.one wii remote and nunchuk

3.nintendos wii sports a 60 doller value free

4.the wii stand for free

where ps3

1.the console

2. a wired controller wireless one costs you a extra 60.00

3. tv hook ups

4. no game

5.pay for online services and content up the wazu

6.no regular hd support must have a hdmi tv

3.11.2006 23:56 #64

ZippyDSM

So much misinformation......both the PS3 and WII are alike but in price and power and 2nd/ 3rd party support...

PS3

Both PS3's have Blue tooth controllers WIRELESS to boot.

Online is FREE,like the WII they both want money for games and music and crap(Fods(mods for a fee)

PS2 component cables work on the PS3 so if you want basic HD or SCART or svid you might already have it.

4.11.2006 00:17 #65

ZippyG

You can't really say that Sony or MS "screwed up" by pumping money into R&D, so long as they have a good idea of their market and demographics (which they both seem to). That is the only way you can innovate technology, and someone has to innovate.

What if all of the console makers took an approach similar to Nintendo. Rather than offering a new console with superior features, graphics and gameplay, they instead opt to revise, add a few marginal updates and try to pass it off as whole new product.

In reality, the updates are simply changes that should have been present in the original product, but were purposely excluded in order to facilitate this type of drug dealer business model (remember those screen backlight kits for the original GBA). Give the users just enough to hook them, but not enough to satisfy them.

Nintendo USED TO be the innovator, they DID do that with the SNES and they TRIED to with the N64. The Gamecube had to be at least as good as the PS2 or Xbox, but now with the Wii they're trying to pull a "revision slip".

Looking at the Wii, most of the supposed differences between it and the Gamecube are so minor that they could have just released those updates as accessories for the existing GC rather than a whole new system. But Nintendo knows its mac-like fans will buy a whole new system even if it doesn't really offer a whole lotta new.

4.11.2006 10:19 #66

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
the 360 horried launch was a mistake the launch "hardware" was a bit to fickle shall I go on?
the PS3 also has mistakes that will effect them hard in the first year or 2 and that involves price alone.

The WII control makes it the innovator right there,sure they skimp'd on the hardware,but if it was more like the Xbox and could do analog HD at 1080i with all the architype of the GC Xbox and anything new the wii has would that be really worth the extra 100-200 on the price tag?

the trick with the WII is Nintendo is fighting cheap but its enough to get by on they might be forced to do soemthign more exotic in 5+ years,if they dont then we all will know they have become comfy with the permeate 3rd slot....and you know if they can keep up the quality in games then I can live with it...altho the GC was shakey on quality...sigh....

4.11.2006 13:51 #67

oofRome

Quote:But nor are your ramblings about the DS being god.
I never said DS was god. I gave you sales numbers. Please don't put words into my mouth.

Quote:Assets = anything a company owns, including physical and rights to intellectual material (IP). This figure isn't too relevant when gauging the financial health of the company.

Shareholder equity also has little to do with the company's financial health, as that figure just shows how of nintendo's money is provided by investors (stock market).

How is this information irrelevant? I gave you two vital tools to determine the company's financial health (like, for example, determining nintendo's liquidity.) Called the "current ratio", this can be determined by dividing current assets by current liabilities. Assets are equal to Liabilities and Stockholder's equity. If Assets are at a high, and Stockholders equity is also at a high, than liabilities must be decreased in order for the balance sheet to balance. This means that right now nintendo's ability to pay its liabilities as they become due is rather healthy.
Stockholder's Equity is not just Common Stock. It is also comprised of Retained Earnings, which depends on Revenues and Expenses.
As it were, Nintendo's Current Ratio is 5.59 to 1. (page 19) aka "Very Strong".

Quote:It's really hard to gauge the company's true status from such a report, because fudging those numbers is possible and done.
Back then it was a lot more easy to get away with. The scandals in the US caused a major change in accounting practices across the globe. This report was audited, so while it might not be true, it's the best any of us are going to get.

4.11.2006 16:07 #68

ZippyDSM

oofRome
sure things in the US went bomb the has japan updated their system to try and catch fudgers?

4.11.2006 16:13 #69

oofRome

Across the globe. You'll find accounting practices in all countries are very similar, if not identical.

4.11.2006 16:16 #70

ZippyDSM

oofRome
nice,is that want got sega into trouble or jsut basic mismanigment ?

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

4.11.2006 16:27 #71

oofRome

I'm not sure.
From what I understand, Sega didn't have enough money to continue to support the Dreamcast in later years, despite decent sales. Sony was out-hyping the DC at any and every opportunity. The previous Saturn was a disaster for Sega, and their hardware business was also a loss-leader during the first few years of the DC's life.
But like I said, I'm not entirely sure what the deal was.

4.11.2006 19:16 #72

ZippyG

The reason I keep mentioning the Dreamcast is that it was very close to the "perfect" console. It was well-marketed, had quality launch games, it had substantially better graphics than what was available at the time of its release, etc. Given the situation, it really couldn't have been executed much better. Yes, hindsight is always 20/20 but I had a DC, I liked it and found its games to be enjoyable. I would like to have seen it survive, as I always liked Sega's attitude.
Quote:How is this information irrelevant? I gave you two vital tools to determine the company's financial health (like, for example, determining nintendo's liquidity.) Called the "current ratio", this can be determined by dividing current assets by current liabilities. Assets are equal to Liabilities and Stockholder's equity. If Assets are at a high, and Stockholders equity is also at a high, than liabilities must be decreased in order for the balance sheet to balance. This means that right now nintendo's ability to pay its liabilities as they become due is rather healthy.
Stockholder's Equity is not just Common Stock. It is also comprised of Retained Earnings, which depends on Revenues and Expenses.
As it were, Nintendo's Current Ratio is 5.59 to 1. (page 19) aka "Very Strong".Somebody went on a google/wikipedia rampage huh? Well now that we're all financial analysts - how much of your money are you planning to invest into Nintendo?

You can say someone is rich because they have a lot of money. If they never spend it, you may even see them as being in "great financial shape"...but if they're not making money, and have no real plan to make the amounts of money required to survive in their line of work...how would you know, and would you really feel so sure if you knew that?

The Wii brings you underpowered hardware with a brick-shaped controller that you can wave around to interact.

Hey wait, instead of a controller that you wave around, how about they make a GLOVE that you can move and grab stuff with on the screen! Yeah, they should call it the POWER GLOVE. It is so unique that it will be a huge success!!! Guys, fire up your etrade accounts and buy some Nintendo stock!

4.11.2006 22:11 #73

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
Ture the DC was ok and sega could have kept up with it if not for bad money mismanagement and the Saturn,no matter how rich you are without supplementing the bleeding you wont stay in business long,sega had to down grade or die.

But nintendo is in a hell of a better shape ,the 64 did ok barely but the GC did ok and the WII will do reasonably ok as well.

Sure nintendo tried to hard and not enoug with the gizmo,glove and vitraul boy but thos failed and others took off,the power glove didnt have the ability or games to really make a impact but it was a good testing ground.

again the WII might be lacking but the Wii is the most innovative from a gameplay standpoint,at least understand that much,also try and understand Nintendo with the n64 and wii if you want to fight MS/Sony you have to put the company on the line theres no need a solid 3rd place is better than going under.

5.11.2006 03:01 #74

anubis66

the wii itself is not innovative in gameplay, but moreso altered the potential of gameplay. certain things can now be done, while other things cannot, and its all up to the developers on how to execute what nintendo has provided them.

5.11.2006 08:45 #75

ZippyDSM

anubis66
teh its a basic single analog pad ,which with the dual motion-sensing one for each hand theres no reason to go back,this is a evolution skip in gaming nothing more nothing less,far far beyond whats been tried befor the other systems are so lack luster in their 90's controller design they didn't bother to evolve,the PS3 was forced to since they lost in court while a step forward it just dosent compare to the WII, however in my mind a a dual analog stick wii mote thing would have been better in order to be a mid point to old and new.

5.11.2006 09:53 #76

anubis66

there is motion sensing in the nunchuck? that might get confusing.

5.11.2006 10:07 #77

ZippyG

I dont doubt that the Wii is unique and different than the 360 or PS3, but the real question is will a new control scheme alone be enough to pull Nintendo's weight along? Different is not always better.

From my point of view, the Wii is very gimmicky. You can get an eyetoy for a PS2 - it's similar in the way that you need to move around physically to interact with the game. The eyetoy was an accessory for the PS2, not a main selling point. Nobody was like "HOLY CRAP! I gotta get me a PS2 so I can play with my eyetoy!". If I was a company, I wouldn't pin my hopes of success on a gimmick.

Controller aside, what is the Wii really offering that that GC doesn't already have the ability to do?

5.11.2006 10:53 #78

anubis66

plays dvd's, cd's, the sort of thing we saw respectively one and two generations ago.

5.11.2006 11:43 #79

ZippyDSM

anubis66
only for 100-200 more you gt a fll media center exp...blah

Yes both have motion sensing,dose that eman it will be used in ever game but think about boxing games and stuff or other thigns that can make having both useful.

ZippyG
and the PS3 is to costly and the 360 is to mismatched.
meh..

5.11.2006 12:06 #80

anubis66

the ps3 is costly, but when its only 400 of your own dollars it doesnt matter. plus, even if i didnt have help i'd pay for it. the help is only there because i didnt make the cash.

5.11.2006 12:13 #81

oofRome

Quote:Somebody went on a google/wikipedia rampage huh?No, it's called a education. I'm a Business Finance major at my university. All I had to do was open the 3-ring binder in my backpack.
Quote:You can say someone is rich because they have a lot of money. If they never spend it, you may even see them as being in "great financial shape"...but if they're not making money, and have no real plan to make the amounts of money required to survive in their line of work...how would you know, and would you really feel so sure if you knew that?They are making money! Look at their sales revenue!
Quote:how much of your money are you planning to invest into Nintendo?I don't have any money period, much less to invest.
Quote:there is motion sensing in the nunchuck? that might get confusing.I doubt the learning curve for an avid gamer such as yourself would be that difficult.
(Or for anyone who is coordinated.)
Quote:Different is not always better.For once, I totally agree with you. And while the Wii game reviews are overwhelmingly positive, we really won't know until we have actually played it ourselves.
Quote:Controller aside, what is the Wii really offering that that GC doesn't already have the ability to do?Brand-new Wii games.

5.11.2006 17:26 #82

dazila

More Performance then the gamecube

5.11.2006 19:59 #83

anubis66

Quote:I doubt the learning curve for an avid gamer such as yourself would be that difficult.
(Or for anyone who is coordinated.)
its up to the developer and if they design it comfortably and intuitivly

5.11.2006 20:07 #84

oofRome

I could choose the most odd, weird control style in Red Faction II or 007 and learn it easliy enough within a few minutes. I expect the same thing for the Wii, no matter how it feels.
If it is intuitive, than I expect it to be easier than any analog-stick combination out there right now.
Does that make sense?

5.11.2006 20:29 #85

ZippyDSM

meh I have issues with left and right hands I can't use my left thumb to aim with I have spent months trying to and its bad,have no trouble using my right...did I get that right.......I get right and left confused..alot >< my right thumb to aim with.

my right thumb is for aiming with analog sticks, my left hand is for aiming mice...I am teh screwed *L*

I get fustraed with games that dont have full button mapping options it really annoys me to no end..its cheap and easy to add it to a game takes up little or no space...and would be better than the uber cookie cutter sht they do which sometimes just makes a game unneedlessly harder....

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

6.11.2006 01:00 #86

ZippyG

Quote:No, it's called a education. I'm a Business Finance major at my university. All I had to do was open the 3-ring binder in my backpack.

They are making money! Look at their sales revenue! You mean AN education? hehehe Anyway nobody ever said they weren't making money - just that they weren't making enough. In other words, the percentage of revenue generated by the industry that Nintendo gets a part of (market share) is low.

As was stated before, those shareholder reports serve only one purpose - to keep people who think they know about finance to keep pumping money into the company. ;) People who know the real facts are who we call "mega rich".
Quote:Quote:how much of your money are you planning to invest into Nintendo?I don't have any money period, much less to invest. Something tells me that you would invest a lot of money in Nintendo if you did have it.

6.11.2006 07:32 #87

oofRome

Quote:In other words, the percentage of revenue generated by the industry that Nintendo gets a part of (market share) is low.You do realize that Microsoft lost around 3-4 billion with the original Xbox. Nintendo made a handsome profit off the GCN, and even though Sony absolutely dominated market share, the profit they made is suprisingly mediocre (in retrospect. still massive, but much less than what you'd expect).

6.11.2006 08:52 #88

ZippyG

Unlike Sony or Microsoft which target multiple sectors of the tech industry, Nintendo does not. There is no Nintendo movies, no Nintendo TVs, Stereos, Speakers, Software (for anything other than a nintendo console), etc. Nintendo's *only* source of revenue is from games and entertainment, and it cannot afford to lose the market share it does have.

Your perception of MS losing money on the XBOX is somewhat misplaced. In business you have short-term and long-term returns to consider. For long-term returns, you often take a hit to your cashflow NOW so that LATER you can reap the benefits. MS strategy works well because it has the massive funds required to play the game they way they do.

It's not unlike walmart selling retail goods at a loss simply to put smaller competitors out of business. As time progresses they rapidly gain market share and incrementally increase the prices on what they sell.

I'm sure that Nintendo is aware of their situation and they're going to do things how they choose...but the way I see it, they can't afford another N64, Virtual Boy or Power Glove flop-out or they will be squeezed out by MS and Sony...and that is something I don't want to see happen, because I do like Nintendo.

6.11.2006 11:59 #89

anubis66

Quote:I could choose the most odd, weird control style in Red Faction II or 007 and learn it easliy enough within a few minutes. I expect the same thing for the Wii, no matter how it feels.im not saying i would have trouple figuring it out thru trial and error, but it doesnt mean it will be fun, enjoyable, or comfortable the way they do it.

6.11.2006 12:09 #90

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
you seem to forget that since they don't make everything and "teh kitchen sink",they don't need to have a large market share to survive,in fact that are doing ok,if they were number 2 they could have afforded to go closer to the power of the 360 but chose a slightly different route and most gamers are pleased with the price versus the performance.

Now the real question is can Nintendo take the "minimalists" approach come the next round of new consoles?

6.11.2006 13:28 #91

ZippyG

The price is lower, yes, but you get what you pay for here - a revised gamecube. MS and Sony offer a whole new system, both of which are backward compatible with existing games to an extent. If you already have a GC then you have your "fun" games with "ok" graphics.

As far as market share is concerned - I told you, it's the Walmart effect. The point is that MS and Sony can afford to "lose" money now while Nintendo really can't. If the Xbox360 flops, MS won't go under. If the PS3 bombs, Sony won't go anywhere. Neither of them NEED their console products to survive. If the Wii is DOA then I predict that Nintendo will head down a similar road as Sega did. Think about it...

6.11.2006 15:13 #92

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
wha.....ok.....ummm.....eerrr. the PS2 has been keeping sony AFLOAT.....so will the PS3 if its bombs....they are hurt as much if not more when sega droped the DC,sure they can live off iffy sales of non gaming stuff....but come on if the PS3 bombs they are hurt badly..enough to have to shave off 20-50% of their products.....

Nintendo DOSENT have to or NEED to go uber power ,frankly overlooking things for "power" and or graphics is getting damn near annoying.
I am not the only one tired f the corporate machine crunching out bland cookie cuter games....

6.11.2006 15:21 #93

ZippyG

Well Zipp, I think we can agree on that issue. I too am tired of the lack of differentiation between consoles and the plethora of "me too" games that keep popping up. I remember the days when a particular console was good for certain types of games, and there wasn't really "too much" of any one game.

In a way, you got that with the PS2...which has a good library of RPGs. The GC games have Nintendo's originals and the Xbox has a few gems hidden in huge piles of dung. But it's not like before where there was a clear-cut reason to prefer one console over the other.

6.11.2006 15:28 #94

ZippyDSM

ZippyG
this is the main reason why I like the WII,however I have a feeling the "ME TOO" crowd will do more harm than good on the system...I can easily see alot of corporate devs not utilizing the WII mote fully and more...
but right now I am still catching up on PS2 and Xbox and some PC stuff I simply don't have the cash anymore to keep up with the gaming Jone's and right now looking at the wash of poorly dev'd games why would I even if I could barely afford it.

I have been trying to get back into codeing I think I will use Q4 as a spring board I am creative but dumb as a nail sometimes.

6.11.2006 15:54 #95

dazila

The Wii is 2x faster and better gpu then the gamcube damn some of you forget get that alot LOL!

8.11.2006 18:54 #96

anubis66

its almost like someone is talking to themself up there..

i dislike the wii gui, its bulky and kinda of unattractive.

8.11.2006 19:56 #97

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