Steve Ballmer blames piracy for slow Vista sales

Steve Ballmer blames piracy for slow Vista sales
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has suggested that the reason for "slower than expected" initial sales of the Windows Vista operating system is piracy. In late 2006, analysts had predicted that Vista sales could reach 90 million units in 2007, compared to 67 million XP units sold in its first year on the market. Now Microsoft has said analysts were "overly agressive" with their projections.

PC Advisor is reporting that Vista sales are off by about 60% compared to the 2001 launch of Windows XP, and revenue is also down 23% since Vista launch. In response, Ballmer has repeatedly suggested piracy is the problem, and said Microsoft needs to step up its anti-piracy efforts, which if history repeats itself, could mean more problems for many legitimate users caught in the crossfire.



"Piracy reduction can be a source of Windows revenue growth, and I think we'll make some piracy improvements this year," Ballmer said. "We will have strong growth in the Windows business in emerging markets: China, India, Brazil, Russia and many others. Those markets are very high in piracy."

Source:
DailyTech

Written by: James Delahunty @ 20 Feb 2007 15:47
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  • 113 comments

  • hankchill

    Why blame piracy?

    They need to blame the slow sales on the fact that Vista is a shitty OS. Personally, I'll stick to XP, because Vista is a major resource hog, and is totally crippled by DRM.

    20.2.2007 15:49 #1

  • b18bek9

    yea i see no real reason to update xp is workin fine for me...i'll update when i buy a new computer but both mine work fine with xp so why would i upgrade also figuring some programs arent compatiable with vista as well so dont say piracy is doing it...that always plays a small part in most software sales but vista is sold with many new computers and ppl buy them off the shelf so it should tell them something that ppl dont want to upgrade or will wait to upgrade to vista...

    20.2.2007 15:57 #2

  • h8breed

    or is it the fact that most major tech sites are saying to stay far away for vista? or the fact that it is made just for MPAA and rpaa?
    sorry microsoft you are not getting my money for this steaming turd the you try and call a os

    20.2.2007 16:00 #3

  • remedypls

    Too bad they couldn't blame piracy on poor sales of the IPOD killer! Zune - Vista - How about offering products and services that are actually enjoyable to use and hassle free!

    20.2.2007 16:04 #4

  • garmoon

    I thought that Vista was just about piracy proof. I think blood was involved in the initial install. It's not selling because people have their systems running quite nicely and don't relish the idea of buy new software or going to the trouble of finding new drivers, etc. Vista won't take off for a while. Couldn't happen to a better group.

    20.2.2007 16:24 #5

  • The_Fiend

    As long as most tech sites, forums and techies who honestly care for a user's freedom to use their pc as they see fit will continue to enlighten folks on why Vista is bad, microsoft will keep losing revenue.
    Not to mention all the folks who know better, and enjoy the freedom to choose wether or not they use "pirated" software, watch "pirated" films, and listen to "pirated" music, who will NEVER switch to Vista.

    20.2.2007 16:31 #6

  • scorpNZ

    Yeah it's piracy...lol... after all gotta blame somth'n it can't be the fact that general joe public are the majority of xp users & see no reason to buy a new comp & OS just to surf and email,get a grip balmer yer git....nough said

    20.2.2007 17:51 #7

  • limelight

    Originally posted by hankchill:Why blame piracy?

    They need to blame the slow sales on the fact that Vista is a shitty OS. Personally, I'll stick to XP, because Vista is a major resource hog, and is totally crippled by DRM.    X99999999999999

    Couldnt agree with you more. Vista is just XP with a new coat of paint, that drains memory and graphics bandwidth. Its just an another excuse for companies to make hardware and software that will prevent people from burning music/movies and such because of its ripoff DRM bullshit. Oh, AND i have to buy ANOTHER graphics card for DX10 games??!! Hey, i just bought a new graphics card a year ago, and im not about to buy another one so i can play the latest games on the VistaSecurityGuard OS.

    20.2.2007 17:54 #8

  • tdhelder

    Piracy my ass....

    The only pirates in this case is Bill and his goon squad. Vista sucks it is a Mac knock off and a piss poor one at that.

    20.2.2007 18:04 #9

  • Luke95

    I remember when I upgraded from 98 to millennium and it was the worst mistake I could make. The OS was the nearly the worst ever.

    So this is another reason I am skeptical of switching from XP which is decent. I don’t think piracy is the reason either. They may be looking for something to blame there sluggish sales on.

    20.2.2007 18:13 #10

  • dioioib

    Personally I bought two MACs to get away from Windows, and Microsoft in general. And to tell you the truth I don't miss it one bit. Why blame it on piracy? Perhaps the fact M$ stated that service pack one is just around the corner might be affecting the confidence of people looking at M$ products. And with the prevalence of virus' and spyware on Vista how can you claim it is any more secure than the last version? Its my professional opinion that you should abandon ship while you have the chance.

    20.2.2007 18:21 #11

  • ripxrush

    I think you have all covered it so i have to say:
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    20.2.2007 18:30 #12

  • Unfocused

    It has taken me years to set up XP how I want it to behave.

    I've already dropped enough money into setting up my living room for HD TV, even more money on setting up a wireless network that can be hit from anywhere in the house and even more money upgrading my surround sound form a 5.1 setup to a 7.1 setup.

    I just don't feel like spending any more money upgrading anything. I'm all for adaptability and changing times and whatnot, but damn these numbers are really starting to stare me in the face and taunt me.

    Back a few years ago, buying a VCR or a DVD player was a little pricy, but a comfortable price. Now, it seems like everything is out of control.

    20.2.2007 18:35 #13

  • cleverick

    Piracy!! whatever!!! who in their right mind would pirate crap?

    20.2.2007 18:51 #14

  • canuckerz

    Piracy my ass. Its because you need to have all this specific hardware to run vista on your comp, i know thats why I didnt get it. Ontop of that xp is equal or better then it in every category. Besides vista is one buggy peice of junk.

    20.2.2007 18:51 #15

  • Pyroglade

    Piracy, yeah, it's definitely piracy. </sarcasm>

    But really, I haven't seen any good reasons to switch to Vista. In fact, all I see is that Vista is incredibly bad. You know, I think I'll stay here with my somewhat user-friendly XP. It's too bad that Microsoft had to partner up with BestBuy, because I was just about to get a new computer, but now it's all filled with Vista.

    Not to mention the top Windows torrent on a popular Swedish website :D

    20.2.2007 21:12 #16

  • croy00

    Yeah I can't wait to get a pirated copy Vista so that the first firmware fix I try to download for their most unstable piece of shit to hit my hard drive has to go through the genuine advantage check and renders my new computer a useless piece of dog shit and sits on the side walk until the garbage crew removes it with my new mac computer box. It might have had something to do with the youtube video where the Vista test bombs and makes Bill Gates look worse then the first time when you were 14 your girlfriend was left bent over your couch laughing because you busted a nut before you pants were off. It didn't happen to me I swear. Run the number Bill I think you'll find that your analyst's were off a few digits and they should not have put faith in your shitty OS you jerk-off.

    20.2.2007 21:19 #17

  • pigfister

    i am sticking with xp, then either linux or a mac will be my next option as Microsoft are to block all new pc's from leaving the factory's without an operating system pre installed in the uk so no more barebone pc's soon, so even if you have a previous os to keep the cost down or not you're going to get one regardless, which apparently is to combat piracy, even if you are standing there with your holographic tag disc and receipt! i think they are feeling the pinch but now ppl are waking up to their crappy os in comparison to the alternatives especially in the uk where the price of any VISTA suit is twice, yes 2x, 100% MORE than the cost anywhere else in the world, which according to Microsoft is because we have a 17.5% tax on all goods sold.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM

    or from Bertrand Serlet, Apple's senior vice president of Software Engineering:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8&mode=related&search=

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2GyGv-RqFM&NR


    Oh i think i forgot the point, well no directx10 games available for the next year, countless programmes fail to work with vista, need a complete overhaul of my pc hardware to run vista, used as a beta guinea pig for first patch later this year, getting completely ripped off as i live in the uk. And atm benchmarks prove that XP IS FASTER than vista for gamers!

    vista benchmark vs xp
    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/01/30/xp-vs-vista-uk/

    21.2.2007 00:36 #18

  • cascadeuk

    How about just reducing the ridiculous price of Vista.

    21.2.2007 00:51 #19

  • borhan9

    Quote:How about just reducing the ridiculous price of Vista.
    My sentiments exactly.

    21.2.2007 01:53 #20

  • pierrrre

    I still do not see the advantage of upgrading. My computer works fine with XP. Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading do not make much sense. Specially with the ridiculous price attach to it. Eventually we will be force to do it but for the time being there is no point to it.

    21.2.2007 02:20 #21

  • lynandal

    well,

    1) there are no noticeable benefits from switching from XP to vista

    2) installing a vista beta messed up my brothers computer - only fdiking it worked, and lost all his files.

    3) itunes doesn't work with vista

    4) most other software has incomatibility issues

    5) you can' even make ISO image files, what about all my backups of legitimate software and files - even my uni files are stored as ISOs because its easier to keep track of them.

    6) yes, its piracy - what exactly can't windows XP do? why bother upgrading? - and if you find something cause your a linux or mac user, then chances are vista isn't really top of your wish list anyways.

    7) plus pcs get colds - remember the adverts. lol

    21.2.2007 02:36 #22

  • lynandal

    in fact - thinking about it, my favourite os was windows 95 - it ran like lightening, and wasn't at all buggy like 98.

    i might downgrade my win xp - put 95 on and make it run faster - best microsoft upgrade i could ever make. lol

    21.2.2007 02:42 #23

  • jutsu

    I have tried vista beta 2. And that make me crazy. Many japanese games not work. My scanner cant work. My tv tunner make BSOD. And so on.

    And, the system requirement for VISTA is too high.

    And, piracy is not the cause of vista not selling well. In my country, almost everyone, including school, office, government, use pirated software, and, pirated windows xp.
    And, they not using vista. Piracy is not the cause.
    Btw, i use original win xp. Got it pre-instaled on my acer laptop :D

    21.2.2007 03:02 #24

  • SProdigy

    I ran the Vista RC1 client on a PC of mine and actually did not run bad at all. I was able to backup DVD's and get drivers for all of my hardware. Most software is compatible with it now. The only problem is, most of that software is not on the shelves yet, and people are going to buy software that is only compatible with XP. Joe Consumer is not smart enough to look for an online patch or download to fix this. Personally, I have the same sentiments as others: XP is not "broken" compared to Vista, there are no real advantages. You can run XP with less requirements and get 2-3 times more performance than a Vista machine running the same specs.

    I won't say it's a shotty OS, but could it be any more blatant what they are doing with the FOUR different versions of this OS??? Do we really need Home Basic, Premium, Business and Ultimate? What happened to their initiative to merge the old NT and 98/ME platforms together? XP Media Center Edition was so close to this goal and now they threw it away to try and make an extra buck off of support for IIS, Remote Desktop, Media Center, or a few extra Widgets. That's the real turn-off.

    21.2.2007 03:52 #25

  • SProdigy

    Someone mentioned that Microsoft partnered with Best Buy? That makes no sense! Did you try to purchase from Christmas through the Vista launch? Impossible! All of the PC Vendors (HP, Gateway, Sony, etc.) gave up on XP systems and moved to Vista so they would not have a glut of inventory that would need to be wholesaled or clearanced when Vista launched. Tell me a brick and mortar store you can go into and purchase an XP system today? Look in the ads; Vista is everywhere, Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, Staples, Wal-Mart, the list goes on and on. The vendors were pissed enough that Microsoft couldn't get Vista out for the Holiday Season, hence hurting their profits by not having the new OS ready for their systems. I wouldn't necessarily blame any stores for not having systems loaded with XP; it's the vendors. They are trying to capitalize on what's hot. That's how they make profit. Why would someone like HP jeopardize their sales by selling XP systems, when Joe Consumer wants Vista: Joe Consumer will just go buy a Gateway or Dell loaded with Vista instead.

    21.2.2007 03:58 #26

  • hughjars

    What a crock.

    I suppose they feel compelled to keep on sticking the boot into 'piracy' but it doesn't really stand much serious examination.

    Vista retail sales are apparantly 58.9% down on XP sales in the initial week.
    Boo hoo, huh?

    But the truth is that the market is very different from the one XP launched into.

    Far less people are buying 'shrink wrapped' OS software when compared to when XP launched, of course it looks different - on that stat.

    But sales of preinstalled OS software in new machines are far higher.

    Sales of Vista PCs are up 67% compared to when XP launched.

    http://www.betanews.com/article/The_Vist...Wash/1171917974

    Still, why let the facts get in the way of misleading the public and the shallow of thinking, huh?

    (.....and whilst they're looking & wondering what else they could do right they might care to look at the totally unjustified & outrageous discrepancy between Vista UK & EU pricing and in the USA.)

    21.2.2007 04:28 #27

  • avoidz

    There simply is no reason to move to Vista at the moment - Windows XP is stable and reliable; has been for the past five years; and would still be good at least until 2010.

    Vista means less freedom for users (DRM), more expense for users (new hardware), software bloat (15 GB install?!... plus XP does everything Vista can do, and quicker.

    And let's not forget the force-feeding (and pointless) update of Office 2007. Like Vista, Microsoft have applied a "new exciting look" over old features, then attached a stupid price tag.

    21.2.2007 04:41 #28

  • joe777

    I have somethin funny to show you all, but I cant figure out how to display it. Watch this space


    21.2.2007 06:15 #29

  • dioioib

    An error has occured while displaying the previsous error. LOL now thats funny.

    21.2.2007 07:31 #30

  • Moomoo2

    haha great call, Joe.

    21.2.2007 07:48 #31

  • beaters

    If Ballmer really believes what he's saying (which I doubt) then he's more retarded than I think he is. I suspect he's babbling for the benefit of the stockholders, and the financial types. I don't know of any relatively computer literate people who want to jump on the Vista wagon. Vista looks like a mere ploy to hobble everyone's PCs with DRM and make us pay for the bending-over to boot. Does that seem like a good business model?

    Me? I'm working on upgrading my current system and looking for a good used laptop running XP for my son who is soon to graduate from high school. Vista can take a hike.

    21.2.2007 08:55 #32

  • borhan9

    @Joe

    LOL!! It has compatibility issues with its own error system. Now thats a classic.

    21.2.2007 09:47 #33

  • georgeluv

    sorry microshit i like to pirate stuff, use cheap hardware, and load whatever progs i want on my computer. so i wont be buying vista for a wiiiiiile. not untill its been hacked apart, by then ill probably just be running a bootleg install anyway.

    21.2.2007 10:22 #34

  • advent

    What piracy?. I don't know anybody who is running a pirated copy of
    vista;come to think of it, i don't know anyone who is running any
    version of vista.
    I do , however , know of two people who have purchased "top end"
    desktops and had vista removed and xp pro installed.
    I also know that a local insurance broker had a desktop with vista
    installed on a weeks trial with a view to up-gradeing the whole office-
    a total of 9 desktops and 2 laptops.
    The trial lasted 2 days and the office is staying with xp.

    21.2.2007 10:26 #35

  • SoCalSRH

    ...

    21.2.2007 10:26 #36

  • spydah

    Micro$oft is so full of shiznit its crazy. I use Vista at work and its a legit copy and it sucks. Nothing about this OS is good. Yeah they added a few bells in whistles to make it look better but they stole all of the upgrades from the MAC. This is nothing but a desperate attempt from them to use this a power move on P2P sites because of their lack of real creativity. Everything they have done with their so called products have been nothing but rip offs of other programmers apps they will never get the recognition they will need to be successful. Again heres another desperate shot at P2P, what they consider piracy.

    21.2.2007 10:39 #37

  • VANQUISHR

    "Piracy" is responsible? Yeah, that's gotta be it, it obviously has nothing to do with M$ putting yet another half-assed, hole-filled, "Let's let our guinea pig consumers sort it out for us yet again!" Operating System...

    And yeah, it's wonderful how they've stolen and incorporated MAC & Firefox capabilities into Vista...

    Here's what ACTUALLY happened...





    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    21.2.2007 11:02 #38

  • ZippyDSM

    "blames piracy for slow Vista sales""

    it cant e the 6 flavors of it...it cant be that only the mid to high end flavors starting at 400 are the real vister....it cant be that you need a new PC in order to run full vister..unless you have a mid class gaming rig.....mabye the public dose give a holy fudge about your OTT POS OS that has lousy driver support and smacks of ME all the fudges over again? perhaps mmmmmmm?

    21.2.2007 12:03 #39

  • skeil909

    Funny thing about all this Vista/MAC OS X talk.. I have never liked the Mac interface and cannot stand OS X. Why the heck would I want to downgrade my XP Pro to something that looks exactly like what I cannot stand, lol.

    I think Microsoft is gonna have hard time selling people on Vista.

    21.2.2007 12:39 #40

  • joe777

    @SoCalSRH

    You can always run VMWare from a linux distro and install windowsn't onto a virtual playground, and run what you need from there. Much quicker than a dual boot

    21.2.2007 13:18 #41

  • missing30

    Originally posted by Luke95:I remember when I upgraded from 98 to millennium and it was the worst mistake I could make. The OS was the nearly the worst ever.(emphasis mine)
    No, it's officially the worst ever, remember the pricing scheme. 1/2 price if you buy it during the first week, then 75%, then finally 165 bucks. the pricing scheme alone implied rip off.

    21.2.2007 13:31 #42

  • joe777

    Quote:Originally posted by Luke95:I remember when I upgraded from 98 to millennium and it was the worst mistake I could make. The OS was the nearly the worst ever.(emphasis mine)
    No, it's officially the worst ever, remember the pricing scheme. 1/2 price if you buy it during the first week, then 75%, then finally 165 bucks. the pricing scheme alone implied rip off.    But then again windows 2000pro was the choice for many including most business and how many changed to XP, toot sweet. Not so many. 2000 pro was the dogs bollocks in it's day. Millenium was a introduction to beginners. Not for you I doubt, but for many it was, "Ignorance is bliss"

    21.2.2007 14:38 #43

  • ZippyDSM

    Quote:[quote]Originally posted by Luke95:I remember when I upgraded from 98 to millennium and it was the worst mistake I could make. The OS was the nearly the worst ever.(emphasis mine)
    No, it's officially the worst ever, remember the pricing scheme. 1/2 price if you buy it during the first week, then 75%, then finally 165 bucks. the pricing scheme alone implied rip off.



    But then again windows 2000pro was the choice for many including most business and how many changed to XP, toot sweet. Not so many. 2000 pro was the dogs bollocks in it's day. Millenium was a introduction to beginners. Not for you I doubt, but for many it was, "Ignorance is bliss"    2000 was alright but as a gamer worthless and so was XP at the time,MS poorly supported gamers,ME was not to bad if lightly used I really liked 98se and wholey miss going to dos to fix windose issues,it seems wiht vister MS is take a 3 pronged appoarch

    cheap the 32bit versions of vister that smack of ME

    the "NORMAL" vister they are selling as premium vister

    and lastly the business visters


    MS is being cheap not putting effort into the premium and trying to pass off leftovers as a new "cheap" OS,when they should have focused more on the complete 32/64 bit vister and simple not automatically installed the more recourse hunger features on lesser PCs,but like MS always dose the consumers interest is never their own....


    BTW what happened to vister being uncrackable? LOL



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    21.2.2007 14:54 #44

  • missing30

    Funny thing is....
    I was working at a Print Shop, and the owner was really into doing her own graphics on the pc, she went out and bought 4 copies of M.E., latest and greatest, right? she installed ME on the 4 pc's and little did she realize that Me wouldn't run any DOS pgms, the estimating software we used to bill customers was dos based. Anyone remember "files=20. Ahh, what a sweet weekend i had...

    21.2.2007 16:19 #45

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by missing30:Funny thing is....
    I was working at a Print Shop, and the owner was really into doing her own graphics on the pc, she went out and bought 4 copies of M.E., latest and greatest, right? she installed ME on the 4 pc's and little did she realize that Me wouldn't run any DOS pgms, the estimating software we used to bill customers was dos based. Anyone remember "files=20. Ahh, what a sweet weekend i had...    ME ran lite dos programs fine and ran doswg40 games fine it however had issues with heavier dos stuff.



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    21.2.2007 16:23 #46

  • Adamontar

    Piracy what piracy, reason sales are so low, who in the world would upgrade to vista when xp can do the same job, and none of that DRM crap. Not to mention the high price tag, vista is only worth less than 10% of its value. Microshit is stolen enough billions of dollars from people like us. when you buy vista, microshit is stealing money from you. I lost hundreds of dollars already from pointless upgrading, now I amd all my friends get pirate software only. Down with microshit and bill gates. Its because of microshit that global warming exists, pointless co2 emmsions on creating obselete software such as vista.

    21.2.2007 16:48 #47

  • missing30

    Well, not so sure about the CO2 emissions, but i am very happy that the price tag of vister will keep it out of reach of millions of casual users until either the cost of the mac powerbook pro drops, or the GEEKS who make linux usable for the casual <lower case>geek make it, well, usable, casually. But then i hear that OSx is soon to be loaded with the same DRM bullsh*t that vister has, thanks to the MPAA or the RIAA or the ciaa or the fbiaa.

    21.2.2007 17:41 #48

  • ZippyDSM

    missing30

    at 80-160$ for basic 32bit alot of people are going to "upgrade" and find out XP was better and they wont be able to use XP anymore because by upgrading their XP keys will be destroyed..........

    this is the most hurtful part of MSs plan....you cant upgrade with the right to down grade or keep your old OS.....



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    21.2.2007 17:49 #49

  • missing30

    Yeah i heard somewhere about the upgrade with no option to go back. But it seems too ridiculous, you know average joe blow who screws his machine up with the upgrade NEEDS to re-install XP, can HE really NOT call and re-activate his XP?
    Say it aint so?

    21.2.2007 18:03 #50

  • bomber991

    I think that the main thing nobody has pointed out here, is that Bill Gates is the richest man in the entire planet. So if Microsoft is bitching about losing money to piracy, something is wrong. I mean, it's like we have the richest man in the world essentially saying he doesn't have enough money.

    Yeah yeah, I know, Gates didn't make this statement, but still.

    21.2.2007 19:03 #51

  • tefarko

    Quote:
    Steve Ballmer blames piracy for slow Vista sales
    ROFLMAO!!! this is the biggest joke of the year... oh wait, second biggest, Windows Vista is still #1...

    22.2.2007 01:33 #52

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by missing30:Yeah i heard somewhere about the upgrade with no option to go back. But it seems too ridiculous, you know average joe blow who screws his machine up with the upgrade NEEDS to re-install XP, can HE really NOT call and re-activate his XP?
    Say it aint so?
    Using any Vista Upgrade invalidates your copy of XP most permanently.
    because it invalidates your key you have 30 days to fix your problem before WGA kills XP

    I am unsure if XP is needed to be installed before you can install vister since vister formats and cleans the drive first or at least removes the old XP files.



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    22.2.2007 01:34 #53

  • Mr-Movies

    Zippy you’re pretty much right on the nut with your comments, there is a glitch in the install for Update version you can not put the OEM# in when installing for the first time and then re-install over the top using your upgrade OEM# this works! Here is the link;

    http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/0...lars&frame=true

    This is the new trend in big business blame EVERYTHING that’s wrong on piracy this way you keep your job even when your labor costs are high and sales are low, at least for a little bit anyway.

    Its obvious why sales are low the price tag is WAY TOO HIGH and companies won’t take a chance with stability issues they have. This is due to revamping there core for all of the wonderful DRM that they have implemented and isn’t working as they thought.

    As far as piracy goes there are people that have already cracked or got around their activation garbage. Business can be activated by running their activation server the only trick here is every 190 days they need to re-activate again and there is a minimum of 25 PC’s required to do so. There are some that are using a hack that freezes the activation period so you just run without being activated. I don’t believe the number of pirates is very high at all though.

    As far as XP doing everything Vista can, that’s totally not true there are several advancement in Vista that XP doesn’t have one being IPv6 as well as IPv4 that XP uses. Another nice advancement is the 3D graphics environment that Vista has much like XGL in the Linux world MS calls it Aero Windowing which is a pretty lame name but the effects are pretty cool. XBox lovers will like the fact that now they can play PC games through XBox Live. These are only some of the advantages of Vista.

    As too MS’s worst OS’s, to me they would have to be 95 and ME, 2000 was OK but only a stepping stone to the much better XP. There are those die hard 2K people out there that still think 2K is the best but that truly is ignorance or just not wanting to use the new GUI, which they wouldn’t have to if they didn’t want to since you can make XP feel just like 2K.

    Sorry for the lengthy reply I tried to keep it as short as possible.

    22.2.2007 07:26 #54

  • ZippyDSM

    Mr-Movies
    truthful to the point info is never to much info ,post on brother ^^

    22.2.2007 07:35 #55

  • Smitty367

    I've been running MCE and luv it. Vista release was a non-event and MS won't admit it. Who wants a DRM crippled OS? Ballmer can make up excuses all day long, but in the end they all know the real truth, people are sick of being ripped off!

    22.2.2007 13:20 #56

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by Smitty367:I've been running MCE and luv it. Vista release was a non-event and MS won't admit it. Who wants a DRM crippled OS? Ballmer can make up excuses all day long, but in the end they all know the real truth, people are sick of being ripped off!
    running windows cement eh?

    hows it game?

    hehehheheheheee

    22.2.2007 13:34 #57

  • lawndog

    wow, I'm not no PC guru like most of yall. first off XP is a huge program, the general pc user (myself i think) buys a pc and it barely can run XP. You install 1 game and the whole comp runs like a 1 legged man in an arse kicking contest. Besides that I think most people believe windows as a whole is a hit or miss deal. One version great the new one crap good then crap. win 95 can't remember,
    98 work fine for me. windows ME well wasn't woth the packageing it was in. Personally I love XP, little large but it works. i don't have the cash to go dish out for vista. I don't think most people do.
    and QUIT blaming Piracy! Man I'd love to drop the F-Bomb but mods would get mad. Piracy gets blamed for everything.
    CD sales down, Piracy............not because it's the same stuff I heard 5 years ago, just with a little twist.
    DVD sales down, Piracy..........not because they are REmaking movies left and right. And overpaying their actors.
    now windows???
    The general public doesn't know how to copy a CD let alone find a torrent then figure out how to crack it.
    Ok I'm done. Sorry to yall that are trying to read my post. My mind is scattered I know. But GD quit blaming piracy.lower your pricing, become original, offer updates......I don't care.
    LD

    22.2.2007 13:36 #58

  • flyingv

    Why in the world would anybody want to "Upgrade" to this new operating system when they are still getting the bugs out of XP? It's all about the money guys!

    22.2.2007 13:37 #59

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by flyingv:Why in the world would anybody want to "Upgrade" to this new operating system when they are still getting the bugs out of XP? It's all about the money guys!
    good call,frankly they would have been better to put vister off 5 years not drop the price on XP force new PC makers to pay 100 more for OEMs onto a new machine in order to balance the money flow and fix what they got but like the game industry its top heavy and not very consumer friendly...

    22.2.2007 13:44 #60

  • Virgil_B

    Steve Ballmer should have listened to his beta testers and he would know why his sales are off. The cost is too high and the value is too low. It is true that Vista has a new graphic engine that will greatly enhance games, but how many users are hard core gamers? They moved the responsibility for computer security to the user with their Useless Access Control (UAC). The UAC feature is such an irritant that only the novice would leave it enabled. They changed the underlying engine making a lot of your existing programs incompatible forcing you to not only pay for Vista but numerous other programs as well. Enough said!

    22.2.2007 15:07 #61

  • dioioib

    Mr-Movie said:
    Quote:As far as XP doing everything Vista can, that’s totally not true there are several advancement in Vista that XP doesn’t have one being IPv6 as well as IPv4 that XP uses.Thats not entirelly true if you were using the pro-version like I was before my switch to Mac's you could install support for IPv6.

    Regardless I am in totall agreeance that a DRM crippled OS, that has bugs at launch and is over priced is very applealing. Oh I mean appalling. :)

    22.2.2007 15:09 #62

  • ZippyDSM

    Quote:Mr-Movie said:
    [quote]As far as XP doing everything Vista can, that’s totally not true there are several advancement in Vista that XP doesn’t have one being IPv6 as well as IPv4 that XP uses.    Thats not entirelly true if you were using the pro-version like I was before my switch to Mac's you could install support for IPv6.

    Regardless I am in totall agreeance that a DRM crippled OS, that has bugs at launch and is over priced is very applealing. Oh I mean appalling. :)[/quote]dosent Vister have better recovery and data handling that is if you have a PC that dosent lose preforamce over XP.

    22.2.2007 15:12 #63

  • janrocks

    IPv6.. I'm compatable with that anyway.. no XP rubbish here..

    I think the slow uptake is more to do with the huge price tag, this http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/18/308662#2850610 and the fact that it is a complete hog..both of money and resources..

    Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!



    irc.OFTC.net #debian-women
    The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

    22.2.2007 15:26 #64

  • lduych

    The real problem for everybody, except Microsoft (remember, legally Microsoft is a 'person'), is that most people buy their computers from Dell/HP, etc... As long as these companies do not offer viable alternatives to Microsoft OS's, Microsoft will continue to hold the world by the balls. I do believe that Dell offers a laptop with Linux, but I have never actually seen one.

    As to pricing schemes,: apart from sheer greed, the reason behind the outrageous price tags attached to the WinVis assortment is that YOU are paying for the huge pricing advantages afforded to companies, like Dell, that 'co-operate' with Microsoft.

    Microsoft enjoys the monopoly handed it on a silver platter by IBM way back in the 80's. Without this monopoly, Microsoft would quickly sink into oblivion. So Microsoft will do anything to hold onto that monopoly, as it cannot compete with would-be rivals in any normal manner.

    And the reason behind Microsoft's devotion to DRM? Simple. The porn industry cannot thrive without DRM (that's how VHS won out over Betamax). Whoever holds the porn card wins the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray battle. Microsoft is determined not to lose that battle. Microsoft depends utterly upon locking big companies into standards over which Microsoft exercises control.

    So, boycott Microsoft? -- Nah. Boycott Dell/HP, etc., and build your own box. Then you can run anything you want on it; although, I do admit, I am boycotting Microsoft (but mainly because I ain't got no $$$!).

    22.2.2007 16:17 #65

  • ChiefBrdy

    LOL!!! Piracy??? How about Vista is a giant stinking pile of bugged out crap!

    22.2.2007 18:18 #66

  • Rikoshay

    Who is pirating who in the long-run here?

    22.2.2007 18:20 #67

  • tejasmed

    It is my prediction that Vista will not sell to any of microsoft's wild expectations. Because of the poor sales, the sales think tank is taking the easy route and blaming piracy.
    The main reason that Vista is not being successful is that the average user is and has been burned so bad over the past years of Microsoft use that the caution factor is well engrained. The first versions of Windows were klutzy and very unstable. At least XP put some similance of stability, and it made the use of peripherals an easy possibility. It opened up a whole new marketplace of plug and play items and a whole support industry.
    Microsoft is just trying to act like the car industry now. They want to change the box the product is in to make you think you are getting the latest and the greatest. They are taking the same old car and designing a new shell and paint job to make you want to stay ahead of your so called peer group.
    One thing is sure, the internet has changed the way we communicate and use our computers. Microsoft is trying to use a few scare tactics of necessary "improvements" and safeguards that they say are only available in the new package. BS they are available everywhere for nothing to less than $100.00
    This added threat of disabling XP once Vista is installed is a sinister ploy to insure that you will close a door behind you and can only go forward. Personally, I would prefer to build a whole new computer and eventually be forced to install Vista on the new machine. But for some time, I would prefer to continue to use on the side, the very stable machine that I worked 2 years on getting my very fine tuned graphics programs to work on to do my digital photography.
    I also believe that Microsoft is hurting the peripherial products industry and the new software developement industry.
    This will all create a very serious lashback on Microsoft and will set their stock on a downward slump over the next 10 months. Until someone wakes up and does something about it. What? Let's hear your comments and predictions.

    22.2.2007 18:20 #68

  • hans471

    Microsoft just doesn't get it. Most of us just don't want Vista! Why would we? It slows down your system, its not compatible with loads of software and hardware that we now use. How smart does anyone have to be to figure this out? I picked up a great new computer dirt cheap just before "the big change over" happened because it had the "old" XP on it. We have seven computers running GREAT on XP, 2000, and even Me. Why introduce Vista into the mix and screw up our whole system? Vista adds NOTHING that we need and introduces nothing but problems.

    I think Microsoft needs to wake up and smell the coffee. They have been taking our money for so long now that they think its their God given right to do so.

    22.2.2007 18:52 #69

  • ZippyDSM

    tejasmed
    One can draw comparisons of VIsta and the PS3 both are bloated monsters that not not quite up to hype ,what I say is ture for all corporations they need to slim down and do what is needed for the consumer first and them 2nd ,lower prices fix their products don't be anti consumer ect,ect,ect

    22.2.2007 19:13 #70

  • DADEO1

    What if I buy a new computer and it comes with Vista installed,can I get rid of it somehow? Would I just buy XP and have to install it on the machine along with the Vista it comes with? Makes a great case to build your own machine from now on.

    22.2.2007 19:30 #71

  • louhaven

    As hans471, said above: "Most of us just don't want Vista! Why would we? It slows down your system, its not compatible with loads of software and hardware that we now use"

    I do add the following: it slows down your system, disables previously working hardware, uses all memory, ie, its a virus!

    I point everyone to here:

    A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection
    Peter Gutmann, pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz
    http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    In reference to the above article, "“Since [encryption] uses CPU cycles, an OEM may have to bump the speed grade on the CPU to maintain equivalent multimedia performance. This cost is passed on to purchasers of multimedia PCs” — ATI. "

    In my case, I vowed that xp would be the last winblows os ill ever install. I personally cant afford to upgrade, and cant afford to purchase the software, besides, why would I, xp, 2k, wim98 are all as stable as I can make them, and dont have the DRM overhead.

    Everyone has an opinion on win98se, I understand this, but win98 is still supported, not by m$, go here: "Windows 98 + ME *still* alive" - http://www.mdgx.com/spx/ or if the page wont load, it can be found here - http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=78600&st=60

    No one wants version 1.0 of any software, why? its usually full of bugs, or problems. I have told all of my clients, not to touch vista unless its off 1.0. That way, if it doesnt work when upgrading, there is at least some internet-based support for things that microsoft may not be able to help with.

    One last thing, I'm not running 'fast' p4 machines here, most, bar one system are p3's around the 1 gig mark. I may be mistaken, but, I've read or been told that vista will run like a dog on p3 technology. So upgrading anytime soon is virtually out for me (unless i win the lottery, yeah.. never)
    Everyone else who has posted here has come up with some very good valid comments. Im glad there are still forums around whereby people can post things.

    22.2.2007 19:55 #72

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by DADEO1:What if I buy a new computer and it comes with Vista installed,can I get rid of it somehow? Would I just buy XP and have to install it on the machine along with the Vista it comes with? Makes a great case to build your own machine from now on.format the HD and isntall XP?

    22.2.2007 19:59 #73

  • DADEO1

    I guess then it could run ok with both Vista and XP installed?

    22.2.2007 20:01 #74

  • darth71

    Those idiots at MS can whine all they want. The slow sales are from the high price, AND the fact that most people have to buy a new system to run it. I love my XP pro with Vista trans pac. Why would anyone need to spend a ton of money on newer pc's just to get a new OS that is a pain in the ass to learn. Been there tried it, I will stay with XP for another year at least. Maybe when all the bugs are worked out(LMAO)and there is the SP2 release of VISTA, Then I might buy it. till then...Happy where I am.

    22.2.2007 21:32 #75

  • Mez

    I am sure he would have blamed the poor sales on aliens but he figured no one would believe him. Apparently, the guy believed his brown-nosed lackeys when they assured him Vista would sell like hot cakes. The whole world was anxiously awaiting Vista! The reality is, in the last decade, none of the MS OSs did very well until the earlier OS was pulled from the shelf. By that time, the newer OS is stable. I wonder why he thought Vista would be different? Maybe because he is the CEO??? Maybe he figured people are pining away for the bad old days when the computers could barely run the operating system and Vista was a way to get back to that condition.

    I will not buy until I am forced to.

    23.2.2007 02:22 #76

  • ChiefBrdy

    We have that sub where we get everything Microsoft makes with valid license numbers. Only one out of the 11 people who botherd to get a Vista CD has actually installed it. FREE and STILL they won't even install it.

    Actually Balmer, you wan't to really GET the pirates and pay them back. GIVE them Vista.

    23.2.2007 02:59 #77

  • Alaphic

    I love the fact that you're only allowed so many hardware changes before your key is invalidated. I think it's one major and three minor (correct me if i'm wrong), and from what i'm told the processor counts as 2 changes.

    Call me old fashioned, but i believe that if i pay for a piece of software, i should be allowed to use it as long as i want. I really don't think i should have to buy a new copy every other time i upgrade... I guess they've taken a page out of the RIAA's book here: making you pay for content you've already bought just because you need it in a different format.

    Us consumers are just getting f***ed three ways from sunday, aren't we?
    You'd think the government would be trying to protect us from things that should be illegal, like this, instead of things like smoking in our vehicles...

    /rant (sorry, got a little wound up there...)

    23.2.2007 04:07 #78

  • drmors

    steve ballmer is a dreamer; maybe it's because of the rip-off price in the u.k for a bundle of not a lot more than XP.

    23.2.2007 04:16 #79

  • Masterfit

    I bought a machine with Vista on it and deleted it and installed XP.
    I didn't like the program at all!

    23.2.2007 05:07 #80

  • opper

    "Ballmer has repeatedly suggested piracy is the problem" well i will say is when XP first came out many computer system were able to do a small upgrade to have XP worked properly. I believe that this operating system requites a lot of hardware recourses and the overall changes are minimal at best.(software wise)
    Any good tech will say if it is not broken then don,t fix it. Microsoft spin is if it is broken, why not create a more visual effect on the new vista, and create new ways to monitor our/their's software.
    cheers for now to all!

    23.2.2007 05:30 #81

  • jbrrngtn

    Quote:The general public doesn't know how to copy a CD let alone find a torrent then figure out how to crack it.
    ... But GD quit blaming piracy.lower your pricing,...
    Quote:...Vista release was a non-event and MS won't admit it. Who wants a DRM crippled OS? Ballmer can make up excuses all day long, but in the end they all know the real truth, people are sick of being ripped off!

    Quote:...The cost is too high and the value is too low...These are good examples of how the general computer consumer feels.

    The only people that I know that have WinVis are people that recently purchased a new computer with it already installed. Nobody that I know has even whispered about purchasing it for upgrading. Either MicroSteve hasn't talk to anyone else within the company because it's had been already mentioned not many people would upgrade to the new version, but would get it when they purchase newer computers, OR MicroSteve seriously underestimated a lower than low turnout.

    I consider myself pretty decent with knowing my way around computers and software, but I have no interest in pirated versions of MS products or even the bigger named software titles. In fact, I believe that eliminating piracy is actually hurting the bigger software companies in the long run because I felt that early software that was priated helped spread the better software products onto everyone's computer. Now that these same versions have grown into corporate sized monsters, many of these companies want to clamp down. All this does is sent people out looking for other software that's cheaper and easier to place multiple copies onto all their home computers.

    Anyway, I have four computers at my house. One is a laptop with WXP Pro, and two others are desktops with WXP Pro, and all copies are legit. The fourth desktop has Linux installed with OpenOffice. It would be too expensive for my to upgrade my computers to WinVis, and this is why I have Linux installed on the last one. I'm wanting to get comfortable with it so that as time moves forward, I can slowly migrate towards Linux related products.

    Microsoft is pricing themselves out of business and they have just started seeing, but denying it.

    23.2.2007 07:04 #82

  • emugamer

    Who the heck is "pirating" Vista anyway? I agree with jbrrngtn in that I personally have never had an interest in non-legit copies of Windows. And I also agree that nobody I know is upgrading to Vista. Not because they pirated it, but because they just don't want it. They would have to build a new machine to run it. Is Microsoft so arrogant that they think everyone actually wants their product? I'm not spending money just for a new GUI. I would get an XBOX 360 for gaming before I purchased a "gaming" PC. About 4 people I know who were actually in the market for a new PC didn't pirate Vista - they just bought a Mac. I do know of one person who bought a Vista machine from Dell, and called Dell to ask for them to tell him how to get rid of Vista and have XP instead. I've already priced out a Mac and am ready to write the check to Apple once I have no choice. My wife is going to get one for her business next, even though I just recenlty built her a duo core machine last year. I honestly don't know one person who is going to ever get involved with Vista.

    And why the new OS in the first place? Why not just keep working on making XP a better experience? They are trying to compete with the look and feel of OS X and they really can't. Vista's new look is just a decoy to hide its inadequacies. I'm a big fan of those Mac commercials. Seriously, why upgrade to Vista when you can buy something new and better.

    23.2.2007 07:21 #83

  • Gonzo1

    Surprise Surprise pick the easy target Piracy. Once again If Microsoft really cares about its new operating system it should be offered as a free upgrade cause hey when you buy your shiny new PC its kinda free anyway. Perhaps they should look at the selling price of Vista and maybe just maybe the might hit their projected targets.

    23.2.2007 08:03 #84

  • tejasmed

    It appears that a whole bunch of us are in tune about dissatisfaction with Vista and Microsoft.
    Has anyone taken the time to notify PC Magazine and PC World?
    We need to let them know about this forum and comments.
    Microsoft will not listen to just us individually carping...we need to get to the Tech editorial writers of the main stream of America. Even get to the Tech editors of our hometown newspapers. This will create a resounding collective voice against the gready giant.
    With a little effort, we can bring down the giant with little stones.
    Once down, then Microsoft might pay attention to actually serving public needs for future communication technology.
    Every one has written a letter to an editor at least once.
    If not, try it.....numbers and opinions count.
    I served my military time to provide each of us the right to our opinions being expressed, a bunch more of you did too. This might not be a war issue, but it is an issue that will affect all our future rights for technology use, and use of communications, especially the internet.
    Do it!

    23.2.2007 08:50 #85

  • DaGuru77

    Quote:[quote=DADEO1]What if I buy a new computer and it comes with Vista installed,can I get rid of it somehow? Would I just buy XP and have to install it on the machine along with the Vista it comes with? Makes a great case to build your own machine from now on.
    Make a backup of Vista in case you want to use it later. Reformat the HD and install XP. Wouldn't it be better to dual boot from XP to Win 98 so you can run those old games instead?
    I looked at Vista at my favorite computer store and did not like the icons. They look like cartoons. M$ must be marketing to the kids and forgetting about the adults. The fact that they are sneaking Digital Rights Managements into the OS thereby preventing us from copying our own cd or dvd's is reason enough not to switch. The only time I will upgrade to Vista is when I am forced to and only because it will be used on a gaming machine. Of course by then all the rest of my machines will be running Linux. I predict, if they would ever start writing games (you know all your favorite titles like World of Warcraft) to run on Linux, that will be the death nell of Microsoft.

    23.2.2007 08:58 #86

  • pigfister

    purchase a barebone pc and then just install the operating system you already own! they come ready to go with all drivers ect, but you cant get one from dell, ect as they are limited by Microsoft to not selling barebone.

    23.2.2007 16:36 #87

  • vudoo

    Yes its true I wouldn't even PIRATE windows vista. A friend had been beta testing vista and was offering me a FREE valid license for it and I bought XP instead. Many printers and sound cards won't work on Vista. I love my Alienware clone and adding Vista would force me to buy a new sound card and probably a new monitor. Its not worth it. If software makers stop developing software for XP i'll just go Linux and that will be that.

    BTW vista has been hacked however even the Pirates can't give away the crap let alone someone buying a legit copy of vista sorry to say.

    If microsoft stops allowing updates for XP I think people should fight to the death. The FREE is gone and only the Dom is left. Actually it should be spelled Dumb.

    26.2.2007 18:40 #88

  • rcrockett

    I hope he freaks out again on stage like that one time...
    the vid is on youtube somewhere.

    Oh silly billionaires and their silly dances.

    Don't be an idiot - USE FIREFOX
    DVD FAB Decryptor + DVD Shrink + Nero Burning ROM + Verbatim DVD+R = Pure Magic
    My Profile: http://my.afterdawn.com/rcrockett/

    26.2.2007 18:51 #89

  • SLaTheR

    It's all pretty much been said here already.

    I know 2 people running Vista (new computers from Dell). It is a dog. You need 2 Gig just to use the damn thing with any speed at all.

    Eventually the DRM will be circumvented and CD's and DVD's will be easy copies again. Eventually the bugs will be sorted out and be fixed (though why it was put on the market with these is beyond comprehension). Eventually Vista will become the prime operating system used, just like XP did.

    Microsoft is far from dead, and this will not hurt them in the long run. Hardware will all be Vista compatible, as well as future software. We can rail against the machine all we want, but MS knows as does everybody here, that all the sheep will eventually fall to the wolf.

    I swore I would never use XP as did many people, but here we are typing away on our Dell XP driven computers.

    I do not want to sound like a commercial for Vista, but just like when XP was first introduced the immediate future is already written. The handfull of people buying inferior macs will once again regret their decisions in a year or two, the Linux users will always be Linux users, but the majority of computer users will be online with Vista.

    I for one will wait until either XP is no longer supported and Vista is as mainstream as XP is now, or my machine fries itself in a ball of steaming plastic before I upgrade to Vista. By then maybe it will be a stable OS. Though it will probably never be worth the computer power it requires, it will still be the most hardware and software supported option available.

    As for Piracy being the cause of their low sales, this guy needs a drink quickly. He knows, as the words come out of his mouth that he is lying. Just another excuse for even more compute cycles to be used to stop me from copying my CD's for use in my car.

    Vista is currently overpriced, not stable AT ALL, not hardware or software compatible with virtually anything, and cannot be put on any currently operating computer without some major hardware upgrading. It should have never been released in this form and should be viewed as an attempt to mollify the RIAA and MPAA, this was it's only reason for existance.

    4.3.2007 03:40 #90

  • tejasmed

    to SlaTheR

    Well said...
    I too will also not pay the several thousand dollars for new software and items needed just to use the new monster that has been created.

    Tejasmed

    4.3.2007 09:27 #91

  • Mez

    Yes, this is just the usual. It is buggy and requires too much hardware for the moment. In a couple of years the 64 bit OS will come in handy. By that time most of the bugs will be out and the bottem of the line computers will have enough hardware to run it.

    4.3.2007 09:42 #92

  • vudoo

    I have a friend who is looking to buy a computer. I am afraid if she buys that Laptop now she'll have Vista in it. Not a good thing. I wonder if you can format over Vista and put XP back in? For I think Vista is gonna be like Windows ME. It will be big for 3 months and then fold because it truly sucks. Almost worse than ME. If I had to pick between Vista and ME I'd take ME. We all know how crash prone ME is. Well vista is a ton worse.

    4.3.2007 11:15 #93

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by vudoo:I have a friend who is looking to buy a computer. I am afraid if she buys that Laptop now she'll have Vista in it. Not a good thing. I wonder if you can format over Vista and put XP back in? For I think Vista is gonna be like Windows ME. It will be big for 3 months and then fold because it truly sucks. Almost worse than ME. If I had to pick between Vista and ME I'd take ME. We all know how crash prone ME is. Well vista is a ton worse.yes you can remove vister and use your OS of choice however you need to make sure you have the drivers for XP for it.

    4.3.2007 11:33 #94

  • Mez

    Right now it is still an option. I know HP has all the Vista complaints routed to a different phone number. They now it is buggy but they want to please MS. Just tell her to insist on XP. Make sure she makes a back up of her system because they do not supply disks anymore. This way you need to buy the OS and what ever all over again if the HD crashes.

    4.3.2007 14:02 #95

  • missing30

    I think that we should all agree that microsoft's plan was not to release an OS that everyone runs out to buy on the official release date, regardless of what is said about slow sales, that was obviously a "bone" to the RIAA and MPAA, to justify their intrusion into developing the software, their real plan, like it has been all along from win95, is to develop software that'll be running well into the future to ensure their market position for another decade, as machines off the shelf increase in speed and performance the upgrades will become a non issue and vista will gain just as big a marketshare as xp has.

    5.3.2007 13:42 #96

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by missing30:I think that we should all agree that microsoft's plan was not to release an OS that everyone runs out to buy on the official release date, regardless of what is said about slow sales, that was obviously a "bone" to the RIAA and MPAA, to justify their intrusion into developing the software, their real plan, like it has been all along from win95, is to develop software that'll be running well into the future to ensure their market position for another decade, as machines off the shelf increase in speed and performance the upgrades will become a non issue and vista will gain just as big a marketshare as xp has.but wouldn't a better running OS sale now and keep them going another 5 years?
    or can MS even build a better OS anymore...



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    5.3.2007 13:47 #97

  • missing30

    To me a better running OS is out there now in Linux. But what is a better running OS really, the adware, virus', and spyware all come along with popularity of the os, no? I mean when we really think about it, if us afterdawn-ers were the only people running xp or vista, wouldn't we brag about it to the mac users who cannot really tweak their OS and linux users who, inmho, spend more time doing that than running software. It IS a remarkable piece of software when you think about it, most of the time it is seamless, when it's a chore or obtrusive, it's because I want it to do something that it's not currently doing.

    5.3.2007 13:58 #98

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by missing30:To me a better running OS is out there now in Linux. But what is a better running OS really, the adware, virus', and spyware all come along with popularity of the os, no? I mean when we really think about it, if us afterdawn-ers were the only people running xp or vista, wouldn't we brag about it to the mac users who cannot really tweak their OS and linux users who, inmho, spend more time doing that than running software. It IS a remarkable piece of software when you think about it, most of the time it is seamless, when it's a chore or obtrusive, it's because I want it to do something that it's not currently doing.If lunix was the main OS of the world it would have as many troubles of windose in the respect of adware and virus and even hacking.

    that aside my question was
    If MS made vista to come in 2 home flavors 32 Home and 64 Premium 150 and 250 respectively(business models bing more of corse) ,req for basic features including Aero would be 1GB ram and 256MB video card, handled the drivers a bit better for a smoother trnasistion and made a compete BWC mode that let most if not all older programs/drivers work without a problem,this is what I mean by better.



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    5.3.2007 14:06 #99

  • janrocks

    What's better about that? M$ build buggy crap that costs top dollar, and nearly every application for it costs money.

    Steve Ballmer should go boil his head (if he can find it without GPS technology)

    Just for the record. I don't spend as much time fiddling with my OS as the average windoze user has to. 5 minutes a week on a rootkit and trojan scan and the odd update is about it.
    Want to know a secret? 80% of websites you visit are run on some flavour of linux/unix. Why don't people write malware for linux? simple answer.. no two linux systems are alike. Mine is debian, and because I have a choice of where everything goes when I install something there is very little chance of writing malware that can find it's way around once it gets in. You need a small understanding of HOW things work, and what relies on what, and where things are. Nothing is a live executable unless I say it is.. result Jan 1..malware 0



    irc.OFTC.net #debian-women .. Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!
    The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

    5.3.2007 14:23 #100

  • missing30

    Quote:If lunix was the main OS of the world it would have as many troubles of windose in the respect of adware and virus and even hacking.


    agree completely.
    As far as a BETTER os goes...i think we expect windows to do ALOT out of the box. Complete backward compatibility, or the lack of a "planned obsolescence" would negate the business model of any company that markets a product as compared to a service.
    I dunno, believe me i am no MS fanboy, but that's because they've got me and 90% of other computer users in a choke-hold, not because their product is sub-standard.

    5.3.2007 14:35 #101

  • janrocks

    Quote:I dunno, believe me i am no MS fanboy, but that's because they've got me and 90% of other computer users in a choke-hold, not because their product is sub-standard.Thanks for brightening up my day. They have you in a choke hold by use of an abusive, monopolistic marketing strategy.

    That the product is sub-standard is without question. Because it is closed source you are not even given the opportunity to fix it.
    It is the fault of the 90% that it has got to this situation.. zippy calls them "sheeple". I prefer "too downright lazy to try something different".. same point really..
    When you paint your fence do you ask the builders what colour to paint it? When you masturbate do you let somebody else tell you how long for and which hand? I don't think so..so why let M$ tell you what you will install and what you can't?



    irc.OFTC.net #debian-women .. Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!
    The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

    5.3.2007 14:46 #102

  • ZippyDSM

    Quote:[quote]I dunno, believe me i am no MS fanboy, but that's because they've got me and 90% of other computer users in a choke-hold, not because their product is sub-standard.Thanks for brightening up my day. They have you in a choke hold by use of an abusive, monopolistic marketing strategy.

    That the product is sub-standard is without question. Because it is closed source you are not even given the opportunity to fix it.
    It is the fault of the 90% that it has got to this situation.. zippy calls them "sheeple". I prefer "too downright lazy to try something different".. same point really..[/quote]Bbaaa =0-o=
    mew
    ><
    the vocies are annoying today perhaps I need to reinstall my OS :P

    missing30
    downside to BWC is that you might have to run net off in order to run a program or even reboot into a safe mode that will allow such things,hell they have the power to make XP and 95 run IN VISTER as a virtual drive and use a driver and emulation system to pipe the 3d games and such,I am slowy gather parts for a 2nd PC I think I am getting ready for lunix because MS dosent want to do anything for the consumer.

    Hell 'd pay 15 a month for a working windows OS that had full BWC and was less anti consumer than XP/vister......



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    5.3.2007 14:55 #103

  • missing30

    Whatever the product may be, ANY company's goal is to create a product that EVERYONE must have (or wants), Ford did it, ATT did it, hell, even IBM did it befor M$oft came along. M$oft did 'em one better, m$oft even beat the g'vment's silly little anti-trust laws, they won the great American game, not because of a superior product, but because they were able to do what EVERY company wants to do, Acquire a company or product before it blows up in popularity, and make a "gazillion dollars" once it pops.
    And no matter what i wake up tomorrow wanting to do...video edit...3d game..CAD...DTP..or just get beat up-on on the afterdawn forums i can do it using XP.
    Again i'm no fan of M$soft. But just because i have limited options.

    5.3.2007 15:26 #104

  • ChiefBrdy

    I can't remember the exact issue so this could be skewed some. I read that if Vista feels the software you're installing is unsafe or pirated and you install it anyway, Vista will disable itself in 3 days rendering your OS and everything on it lost. Until you call MS to 'unlock' it.

    Evidentily there is a big backlash over this.

    I've just about had it with MS. This Big Brother business is going to far. The bugs. The hotfixes. The bloated crap. The crashes. Piracy protection schemes. Enough is enough. I use my computer as a tool. Not something that I have to constantly tweak, restore, fix, update and worry about every day.

    I'd really like to try Linux but I've only used it w/VMware at work and feel lost. If it has a GUI and is compatable w/my HW and SW, I'll switch.

    Do you lose a lot of compatability or ? when switching from Windows to Linux?

    "Is that 3 thousand dollar bounty on the shark in cash or check?"

    "We can do it the easy way...Or we can do it the REAL easy way."

    6.3.2007 03:06 #105

  • joe777

    Quote:[quote]If lunix was the main OS of the world it would have as many troubles of windose in the respect of adware and virus and even hacking.


    agree completely.
    As far as a BETTER os goes...i think we expect windows to do ALOT out of the box. Complete backward compatibility, or the lack of a "planned obsolescence" would negate the business model of any company that markets a product as compared to a service.
    I dunno, believe me i am no MS fanboy, but that's because they've got me and 90% of other computer users in a choke-hold, not because their product is sub-standard.[/quote]



    What a load of rubbish. Let me ask you first off. What particular Linux distro are you talking about, or are you referring to them all!!! Major difference between open source software and well lets say micro$oft is ROOT. Most Linux distros do not allow you to run root user unless you are working with the system of course. So only real way to get attacked is if you allow it, by way of signing in to root and giving the infection the all clear to install!!!!!!
    And lets be really serious here, how many of the servers in the world run on microshit software? and how many run on Unix / Linux software?
    Maybe you should look into what Im saying before replying.
    But be rest assured the rest of the world hasn't quite grassped the complicated side of linux distros, and thats why most linux products are not very popular.
    In my opinion its just lazyness on the consumer part, we all have eyes and can all read and who was able to slip right into any OS the first time they used a PC.

    6.3.2007 05:56 #106

  • DaGuru77

    Switching to Linux is fairly easy. You have two choices of either a dual boot system, keeping your old OS and adding Linux on another partition. If you don't play games you could reformat the HD and run Linux using the whole drive. There are several choices out there. The most familiar is to install Red Hat Fedora which is free and without the support that the commercial RHEL has, or you can go and install Ubuntu which is also free and comes with updates and support. Right now I'm running Mandriva and am very satisfied with it. Most off-the-shelf boxes will have no trouble installing or running Linux. Its only if you are running some exotic hardware that you may run into problems. Yes Linux has a slightly higher learning curve, but it is worth the effort to learn. If you have ever run DOS then you will have no trouble with Linux. Pretty Basic (Pun intended) Smile

    6.3.2007 06:01 #107

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by DaGuru77:Switching to Linux is fairly easy. You have two choices of either a dual boot system, keeping your old OS and adding Linux on another partition. If you don't play games you could reformat the HD and run Linux using the whole drive. There are several choices out there. The most familiar is to install Red Hat Fedora which is free and without the support that the commercial RHEL has, or you can go and install Ubuntu which is also free and comes with updates and support. Right now I'm running Mandriva and am very satisfied with it. Most off-the-shelf boxes will have no trouble installing or running Linux. Its only if you are running some exotic hardware that you may run into problems. Yes Linux has a slightly higher learning curve, but it is worth the effort to learn. If you have ever run DOS then you will have no trouble with Linux. Pretty Basic (Pun intended) SmileDual boot is simply not a option I like my windows machine to run 24/7,I am clueless on linux for the most part need to do more reading up when I get the other computer more complete.



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    6.3.2007 09:03 #108

  • Alaphic

    well, if you look at things now, it's looking like the only reason they put out vista was to push out their "Games for Windows" platform. they're going to start doing a "Windows Live" now that works like xbox live, which you have to pay 50 dollars a year for.

    i think they're hoping to rope some of the console gamers over to pc, and make them pay an incredibly inflated OS price, as well as for the hardware that's required to run the aforementioned bloated OS.

    so... now they want us to pay for the privilege of playing online with vista... what a wonderful new os.

    7.3.2007 04:41 #109

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by Alaphic:well, if you look at things now, it's looking like the only reason they put out vista was to push out their "Games for Windows" platform. they're going to start doing a "Windows Live" now that works like xbox live, which you have to pay 50 dollars a year for.

    i think they're hoping to rope some of the console gamers over to pc, and make them pay an incredibly inflated OS price, as well as for the hardware that's required to run the aforementioned bloated OS.

    so... now they want us to pay for the privilege of playing online with vista... what a wonderful new os.
    Yes with vister in place PCs wont have extra bandwidth and CPU power to run servers and keep MPing free...*rolls eyes* man dose MS have to make everything cost?



    FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
    Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
    http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

    7.3.2007 06:53 #110

  • BIGTOXY69

    It's still Gonna stay Xp For Me !

    FeetZ Up ! Head Down !

    7.3.2007 22:29 #111

  • pigfister

    Windows had its day and chose to bed with the MPAA to infest ppl's computers/networks with DRM even one of the most loyal customers of m$ is to start to use linux since the introduction of vista!

    Dell to offer linux OMG
    http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=8498

    11.3.2007 01:35 #112

  • rokmsokm

    itz funny how piracy is always the blame. not a lame code bloated os that doesn't work.

    12.3.2007 04:32 #113

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