AfterDawn: News

Toshiba adds 24p output to HD DVD players

Toshiba has announced they will be bringing true 24p output to their popular HD-XA2 and HD-A20 HD DVD players.

The new capability will be added through a firmware upgrade due in September. The firmware upgrade will introduce "playback of film-based content" at 1080p/24fps, otherwise known as 24p.



Although movies are captured at 24p for theatrical exhibition, they are usually transferred at 30fps for home video formats. Both HD DVD and Blu ray are capable of encoding at 24p but so far no HD DVD players have facilitated playback at anything but 30p.

Source:
HD Digest

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 5 Jul 2007 16:32

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• 14 comments

• hughjars

  That HD A2 is (in the USA at least) a great and inexpensive unit, it already had high specs & it's just gaining more and more over time.
  
  Pity it isn't priced at the same level here in the UK (IIRC it's available for $250 in the USA = £125 here in the UK.
  I'd be 'in' at that price here)

  5.7.2007 16:47 #1

• limelight

  I dont get it, how is this an advantage?

  5.7.2007 16:53 #2

• error5

  Originally posted by hughjars:That HD A2 is (in the USA at least) a great and inexpensive unit, it already had high specs & it's just gaining more and more over time. The A2 won't be getting the 24fps feature as stated in the news article. Only the A20 and the XA2 will be upgraded to include 24fps capability to their current 1080p output.
  
  @dblbogey7: This should go very well with your JVC RS1 1080p projector.
  
  Quote:I dont get it, how is this an advantage?Since film is normally shot at 24 frames per second, film-based sources have to be converted to 60 frames per second in order to be properly displayed in most TV's and HDTV's. This involves "pull-down" processes such as 3:2 pulldown which has the tendency to introduce judder especially during slow pans.
  
  Some displays and projectors now have the ability to display film-based material at it's native 24 fps or multiples thereof (such as dblbogey7's JVC RS-1 1080p projector.) If you match a 24fps source and a 24fps display then you get a smoother judder-free picture.
  
  BTW the 1080p data in HD DVD and BluRay movies are encoded in 24fps.

  5.7.2007 16:53 #3

• hughjars

  Originally posted by error5:The A2 won't be getting the 24fps feature as stated in the news article. - That is true.
  
  I did not meant to imply otherwise but I can see how you might see it otherwise.
  
  BTW the HD A2 is now just under $250 at $247.....and I must admit that HD A20 is 'coming up on the rails' as a real bargain buy with excellent spec too (in the USA at least, currently $341 on Amazon USA!).
  
  Originally posted by error5: Some displays and projectors now have the ability to display film-based material at it's native 24 fps or multiples thereof (such as dblbogey7's JVC RS-1 1080p projector.) - "Some" maybe but that really means 'hardly any' right now.
  
  Without TVs that can take advantage of this feature (useful tho it will be in future) the truth is that it's not really going to mean much to many people right now.

  5.7.2007 17:45 #4

• error5

  Quote:Without TVs that can take advantage of this feature (useful tho it will be in future) the truth is that it's not really going to mean much to many people right now....and I though you were really excited about this good news from the HD DVD camp.
  
  I guess I was mistaken.

  5.7.2007 17:52 #5

• limelight

  Quote:Originally posted by hughjars:That HD A2 is (in the USA at least) a great and inexpensive unit, it already had high specs & it's just gaining more and more over time. The A2 won't be getting the 24fps feature as stated in the news article. Only the A20 and the XA2 will be upgraded to include 24fps capability to their current 1080p output.
  
  @dblbogey7: This should go very well with your JVC RS1 1080p projector.
  
  Quote:I dont get it, how is this an advantage?Since film is normally shot at 24 frames per second, film-based sources have to be converted to 60 frames per second in order to be properly displayed in most TV's and HDTV's. This involves "pull-down" processes such as 3:2 pulldown which has the tendency to introduce judder especially during quick pans.
  
  Some displays and projectors now have the ability to display film-based material at it's native 24 fps or multiples thereof (such as dblbogey7's JVC RS-1 1080p projector.) If you match a 24fps source and a 24fps display then you get a smoother judder-free picture.
  
  BTW the 1080p data in HD DVD and BluRay movies are encoded in 24fps.Thanks!

  5.7.2007 17:55 #6

• hughjars

  dammit double post.

  6.7.2007 03:10 #7

• hughjars

  Originally posted by error5:...and I though you were really excited about this good news from the HD DVD camp.
  
  I guess I was mistaken. - It's a welcome development, of course it is.
  
  In future years it's establishing a 'norm' that will be a value to us all (given enough time).
  
  But you can over-do it and make this out to be a lot bigger than it actually is too, IMO.
  
  I'm just reflecting the fact that IMO it's also worth being honest about it & not losing sight of the fact that right now, for most, this doesn't really mean a lot at all.
  
  Hardly anyone has an HD TV capable of making use of 1080p/24.
  Now that's just a fact, almost all existing HD TVs are 720p/1080i with a much much smaller, but growing, minority of 1080p/50 or 1080p/60 TVs.
  (in the same way as it's also very true that only approx 35% of USA households have HD TV of any description, in the UK it's approx 10% and slightly less than that across all of continental Europe or that almost no-one has a receiver that can fully make use of HDMI 1.3/1.3a).
  
  .....what's so "wrong" about any of that?

  6.7.2007 03:14 #8

• dblbogey7

  Quote:@dblbogey7: This should go very well with your JVC RS1 1080p projector.This is excellent news indeed. The 1080p/24fps feature has been a welcome improvement on the PS3 since the 1.8 update. If Toshiba can do the same thing for my XA2 then kudos to them.
  
  It's good to see the CE companies listening to the requests of A/V enthusiasts and early adopters. They realize how much of an improvement 24fps playback can give by eliminating the need for 3:2 pulldown.
  
  @error5 and eatsushi: Any plans of getting a 24fps display anytime soon?

  6.7.2007 03:57 #9

• error5

  Quote:.....what's so "wrong" about any of that?Nothing wrong, I guess.
  
  You just got me confused that's all. In your first post you were excited and enthusiastic. Then in your very next post you downplay the importance of the news article. Two attitudes almost diametrically opposed to each other all in a matter of an hour.
  
  Quote:@error5 and eatsushi: Any plans of getting a 24fps display anytime soon? I'm waiting for the new Pioneer Elite plasmas that have native 24fps.

  6.7.2007 04:29 #10

• eatsushi

  Quote:It's good to see the CE companies listening to the requests of A/V enthusiasts and early adopters. They realize how much of an improvement 24fps playback can give by eliminating the need for 3:2 pulldown.I second the motion on that. The clamor for 24fps was loud and clear especially at avsforums. It helped a lot that industry insiders were regulars on those boards.
  
  Quote:@error5 and eatsushi: Any plans of getting a 24fps display anytime soon?Actually, I got a good deal on a refurbed Sony VPL-VW50 so I traded in my Panny PJ. The 1080p/24fps signal from the PS3 (displayed at 96Hz) is excellent on this projector. It would be great to see the same thing from the XA2. No more 3:2 pulldown, no more judder or flicker - just pristine 1080p/24fps straight from the disc.

  6.7.2007 06:36 #11

• dblbogey7

  eatsushi & error5: It's finally here. The 2.5 version firmware update adds 1080p/24fps output. I updated the XA2 last night and tried a few discs. The PQ from the RS1 projector at 48Hz was as good as can be expected - excellent judder-free output especally on that slow pan during the opening sequence in Sahara.
  
  A minor quirk though - there are reports of handshake issues with certain receivers or switchers that can't handle 24fps correctly. I hope Toshiba comes out with "forced 24fps" like they did in the PS3. I have a direct connection to the RS1 so I did't have any problems - still using analog 5.1 for audio. See the last few pages here:
  
  http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=846721&page=26

  14.9.2007 05:06 #12

• eatsushi

  Thanks for the heads up dblbogey7. I've been out of town since Tuesday and I won't be able to update my XA2 until Monday. However I'm curious to see how my Denon AVR will handle the 24fps output. I haven't had trouble with 24fps from the PS3 running through my AVR so I hope I don't run into handshake or sync issues like other XA2 users.
  
  ~Added~
  
  Found this on avsforums:
  
  Quote:
  *If you are playing a SD DVD, you have to select 1080p(60)
  *If you are playing a HD DVD tv series, you have to select 1080p(60) and Video mode.
  *If you are playing a HD DVD film, and want any concurrent features, you have to select 1080p(60) and Film mode.
  *If you are playing a HD DVD film, and Don't want any concurrent features, you have to select 1080p24 and Film mode.

  14.9.2007 07:20 #13

• eatsushi

  dblbogey7: Looks like the audio sync and dropped frame problems are unique to the XA2. I'll try to see if I can borrow my friend's A20 and try the 24fps output from it.

  17.9.2007 07:41 #14