Paramount picks HD DVD in format war - again

Paramount picks HD DVD in format war - again
As the so-called format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD gets more convoluted every day, Paramount has come along to throw a little more confusion into the mix.

Long before either format was anywhere near releasing an actual product, Paramount threw their support firmly behind HD DVD. In 2005 someone at the studio changed their mind on the decision, and until this week the studio released movies in both formats.



Now, in a surprise move, both Paramount and DreamWorks Animation SKG announced they're releases will be available strictly on HD DVD. The decision affects movies from Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films.

In a statement, Brad Grey, Chairman and CEO of Paramount Pictures said, "Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theater, and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience. I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount."

It's an interesting move, given Blu-ray's commanding lead in Title sales, including Paramount's own titles.

Source: Ars Technica

Written by: Rich Fiscus @ 20 Aug 2007 18:41
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  • 122 comments

  • BurningAs

    oh....shat

    20.8.2007 19:00 #1

  • vtowner

    But blu-ray is still probably gonna win. As much as i hate Sony, we have to accept the inevitable.

    20.8.2007 19:06 #2

  • diabolos

    I like Sony. I hate every Blu-Ray player out right now. They are simply half-ass'd attempts with no interactivity. Did you even read the article?

    Ced

    20.8.2007 19:21 #3

  • Unfocused

    WTF?! How much money will their balance sheets show for this announcement?

    20.8.2007 19:50 #4

  • Pop_Smith

    Quote:But blu-ray is still probably gonna win. As much as i hate Sony, we have to accept the inevitable.Who says? Sure things might be a little Blu-Ray sided but what if others follow the Paramount lead? Something funny must be up with Blu-Ray if they totally abandon it after it starts looking as if it might "Win".

    Maybe not, but isn't DreamWorks part of Disney? If so thats funny that they are picking HD DVD.

    20.8.2007 21:10 #5

  • albino92

    Yah as hd-dvd does seem better than blu-ray blu-ray will sadly probably end up winning. Transformers shall be nice in hidef though.

    20.8.2007 21:12 #6

  • nobrainer

    With consumer opinion being very anti sony atm because high negative press coverage because, of the high prices, exploding batteries, secretly installed dangerous drm code xcp rootkit, payola scams and drm in general i think the rats are jumping the proverbial ship!

    Track What Companies Have Edited Wiki http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/ (very heavy load atm)

    20.8.2007 23:41 #7

  • connolly

    Money has changed hands in this deal, no question about it. The HD-DVD camp knew they were losing and are throwing money at the situation.
    While Hi Def sales are still very low it makes sense for Paramount to strike a good deal with one side while they can. Either Blu-ray will come back with a better offer or Paramount will wait till sales of either system make it obvious which side will win and they'll make a firm decision on format then.

    21.8.2007 00:04 #8

  • mlsgiant

    This was done because Parmount doesn't want to compete with Sony Pictures as far as movie studio wise. Why would Parmount support a competing movie company? Just like Burger King stopped carrying Pepsi and went to Coca Cola. Burger King did not want to support Taco Bell, Pizza Hut and KFC(all restaurants which Pepsi owns).

    21.8.2007 00:16 #9

  • i1der

    free propaganda... they just want people taking about their business... blueray backer... but i don't even care who wins... stop buying DVD years ago... Online renting is the way to go, chip and you don't have to keep a old collection of movies taking space on your living room...

    21.8.2007 00:17 #10

  • hughjars

    Paramount (actually Viacom would be more accurate = MTV Movies, Nickelodeon as well as the Dreamworks deal.......which makes one wonder if a new BlockBusters announcement can be expected soon)
    spent 1 year selling both formats and evaluating them, I'd say it's a very significant move.

    So much for all those dismissive remarks about how cost doesn't matter or a range of players or - most laughable of all - how Blu-ray already had this all wrapped up.

    The writing has been on the wall for an age now, the simple truth is Blu-ray, to all intents and purposes, = PS3.
    PS3 just doesn't shift enough BD movie discs per player.

    The industry are not blind to the fact that in stark contrast HD DVD players do shift more movies per player.

    It's only a matter of time now, PS3 has given Blu-ray the (entirely expected) initial spurt but now as HD DVD player numbers grow it is Blu-ray that will be left behind.

    But they can't just sell another 3.7 million PS3s any time soon and all the Blu-ray players out right now are not 'profile 1.1' compliant - as is supposed to be required from Oct 07 on
    (this is going to annoy a lot of people who just bought the 'cheap'(er) Sony S300 as many of the supposedly 'superior' extra features high def is claimed to offer won't be available to those S300 owners - or any other owners excepting the $2000 Denon and the $750-$1000? Samsung dual format player).

    This leaves HD DVD with
    (1) the greater amount of available content
    (2) the greater amount of exclusive content
    (3) the biggest movie studios all supporting HD DVD
    (3) the greatest amount of potential content
    (4) full features available on all current available players

    It'll be interesting to hear from those who (until yesterday) went around proclaiming that the biggest amount of studio support was all that mattered in this. :P

    All this along with HD DVD's superior (imminent) capacity (51gb), 2nd-to-none image & sound quality and a range of players available at reasonable prices (and set to fall substantially below $200 this X-mas) leaves HD DVD, IMO, set to 'win' in the a/v market......which was always something a mere games console would and could never do.

    The only really big question left open by this right now is how long until Warner Bros follow this move and go back to being HD DVD exclusive, again, themselves.

    21.8.2007 02:47 #11

  • princedvd

    Do you know how much money Paramount and Dreamworks are going to lose in Blu-Ray sales? Did you see the numbers for 300 when it was released on both formats?

    I just purchased a Blu-Ray player last week because Blu-Ray had support from most of the major studios, except Universal, which I could live with.

    Now, we have Microsoft to thank for getting involved and paying Paramount and Dreamworks millions of dollars to join HD-DVD because they knew sales were not great.

    I would love to see someone start a petition to have Paramount and Dreamworks reconsider going back to making both formats or flooding their phone lines voiceing our concerns for this sudden move.

    Only time will tell which format is going to buy off Warner Home Video.

    21.8.2007 04:05 #12

  • DXR88

    PrinceDvd-Thats what happens when you rush to buy the latest products that have niether won or lost anything. It was your fault dont spend it around on the corps. mabey bribery was invovled thats how corperations work. Sony bribs too. maybe they bribed too much money and because there losing sales of players or ps3 units. there losing money

    21.8.2007 04:45 #13

  • duckNrun

    I must have missed something here, I didn't read where any pay off had taken place from MS or anyone else for that matter.

    Maybe I need to send in a support ticket to the folks at AD and ask why I'm only getting part of the news when obvioulsy others here are getting the 'full' story....lol

    21.8.2007 04:50 #14

  • princedvd

    Here is a link from The Digiatl Bits also claiming Microsoft had a part in this HD-DVD situation.


    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp

    21.8.2007 05:00 #15

  • DXR88

    The point is you rushed to buy your high def player. so now the tides have turned hands. your angry becoase a major film company switched to hd-dvd. like i said mabey bribery was invovled or mabey they realized how crippling BD+ actualy is

    21.8.2007 05:11 #16

  • ChromeMud

    Playing a Blu-Ray movie will be like installing a root-kit in your PC.May aswell install cameras and microphones inside your house.
    Puts me right off buying or watching a movie altogether.
    HD-DVD better stomp on that shi# right now.

    21.8.2007 05:20 #17

  • duckNrun

    Originally posted by princedvd: Here is a link from The Digiatl Bits also claiming Microsoft had a part in this HD-DVD situation.


    " target="_blank">http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp

    The press release that site links to makes no comments about being paid off. The only comments about being paid off come from the site author himself and some further link to an LA Weekly site that has that author listing the same press release we read here but making mention of 'inside sources'....LOL

    So they paid of $150M to studios who made over $1B alon in three movies to throw their hopes of future home movie sales to what these studios believed to be the losing side....

    Thats some desperate imagination....

    MS: Hey Mr Studio... I'll give you 150 MILLION to only support our losing format.
    Studio: Well We made that on opening weekend for our top three movies, and we really want to insure that our movies end up being bought for home viewing use... I'm not sure about your offer.
    MS: We'll throw in some free promotional space on our X-Box live site as well if you just come to the dark side...
    Studio:WTF?? Free promotional space on a site that most of our movie goign public doesn't even have access to or visit?? YEAH screw our future hopes and dreams of selling movies to the home market! We'll sign up with the LOSERS!

    While it is possible some money or other commodity shifted hands, until you can produce actual proof and not some secret insider from a gossip reporter or anti HD-DVD site... then you point is garbage.

    21.8.2007 05:20 #18

  • ZippyDSM

    its still 50/50 on who will "win" BR only has space, DB+ is a nightmare awaiting reality,I do not see the BR side gettign players out cheaper and better,all in all HDVD is the tortus and BR is the hare,Hdvd is just going along slow and steady BR is doing to many things at once or incorrectly even so its still 50/50.

    21.8.2007 05:36 #19

  • mattkind

    People who went to blu ray is stupid ( like me ) cos HD DVD will win, now with paramount and dreamworks on there side . All they need is FOX to go to HD and we have our winner :)

    21.8.2007 06:14 #20

  • redux79

    Ok i've swayed between blu-ray/HD DVD and ps3/360 for numerous reasons, just when I start to feel comfortable with one or the other something else pops up like BD+ or the ever changing 360 versions. News like this is just one more reason to hold out longer.

    Console's aside, does anyone else think that once one format wins the ensuing monopoly on the hd market will allow that party to manipulate the media in anyway they want? I know BD+ sucks but who's to say that HD DVD couldn't implement similar drm only after they're one rival is wiped out. Now that this kind of drm is possible isn't it almost guaranteed to be used in the future? The major corporations have been trying to create the ultimate drm for years now, so isn't it even more likely when one format has total control? What i'm trying to say is that no matter what happens there is going to be intrusive maybe even malicious drm on the winning hd format.

    21.8.2007 09:57 #21

  • Zoolook2

    Seems a desperate move by the HD-DVD camp to buy some extra time if it's true that money changed hands for paramount to switch side, the ps3 is outselling the xbox360 now and blu-ray is outselling hd-dvd 2 to 1 or even 7 to 3, it's downhill all the way for blu-ray at the the moment.

    21.8.2007 09:59 #22

  • Krmnnghia

    OH SNAP!

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/21/micha...f-blu-ray-no-t/

    21.8.2007 10:39 #23

  • jcur31

    Weather they were paid or not it happens on both sides. Are we forgetting the recent announcement by Blockbuster to support BD only. That had they stink of a Sony payoff all over it. I wonder how they are going to feel about there choice now.

    I don't understand how anyone can get mad after buying a BD or HD player. It's not an investment, it's an entertainment device. If you are an AV freak like me, you would already have both. (PS3 & 360HD-DVD) I knew it could go either way from the start and so should everyone else. Either way, they will be worth $29 dollars at a garage sale in 6 years anyway.

    If you have the BD player now, cool, you got the expensive on out of the way, now stop buying coffee for 2 months, save that money an buy a HD player for $299. (179 if you already have a XBOX 360)

    21.8.2007 10:45 #24

  • xugiua

    Sony have never and will never win a format war. They just suck at trying to change America. Go back to China, Sony.

    21.8.2007 11:21 #25

  • NexGen76

    Quote:Both Paramount and DreamWorks Animation SKG today announced their backing of HD DVD, which will entail exclusive use of the HD DVD format. The decision will see movies from Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films available in standard definition DVD and HD DVD, exclusively
    Exclusively not really !

    Quote:Finally, yesterday's stunner of a Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD exclusivity press release included a conspicuous one line carve-out, stating that Spielberg's DreamWorks films would be exempt from the terms of the HD DVD exclusivity arrangement, opening the door to the possible future release of more recent Spielberg blockbusters on Blu-ray.http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/sho...s_Uncertain/878

    This is a small move in term for HD-DVD because this isn't really a Exclusivity as they state it, everyone knows that Dreamworks films is carrying Paramount pictures.

    Looking at the Box Office this year is shows that Paramount/Dreamworks was the highest grossing studio so far but if Transformers & Shrek the Third was the only HD titles that im not going to see this holiday season then im not worry at all.

    Bay to Paramount: "No Blu-ray, No Transformers 2!"

    http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/P...sformers_2!/881

    LOL.. Was 150 million really worth in.This might give HD-DVD a little boost in the short term but in the long run they hurt themselves alot.No matter how HD-DVD mite try to use this as a PR booster this really don't help them.If i was HD-DVD i would have made a run @ Warner because if Warner goes exclusive this format war would have change dramatically.But stand clear because the last thing Toshiba want to do is get in a bidding war they know they can't win.I really wonder how BDA going to respond i think it going to be something major because they alway have something up there sleeve.

    Quote:Weather they were paid or not it happens on both sides. Are we forgetting the recent announcement by Blockbuster to support BD only. That had they stink of a Sony payoff all over it. I wonder how they are going to feel about there choice now.Not really because this was more of a Microsoft move than a toshiba.

    A number of HD-DVD fans have e-mailed us to cry fowl over our issue with Microsoft offering financial incentives to studios to go HD-DVD only, when (they say) Sony must surely be doing the same thing on the Blu-ray Disc side. Here's the difference, and it's why we continue to flag it: Sony pumping money to various studios and parties to promote Blu-ray Disc make logical sense to us. Toshiba doing the same thing to promote HD-DVD, that makes logical sense too. Sony was involved in creating Blu-ray and has a financial stake in it. Likewise, Toshiba created HD-DVD and has a financial stake there. Where does Microsoft's interests lie? Microsoft did not create HD-DVD

    21.8.2007 13:37 #26

  • jimmer

    Quote:Bay to Paramount: "No Blu-ray, No Transformers 2!"lol, who cares

    21.8.2007 14:07 #27

  • Halen5150

    @NexGen76

    Quote:Bay's site has grown in popularity in recent months thanks in part to the star director's unusually outspoken outbursts, although whether his latest threat holds firm remains to be seen.Ah looks like we just FORGOT to quote that; now didn't we?

    Seriously; you're talking Michael Bay. Pretty much a celebrity; that makes a sh*tload of dough. Of course; that means he likes to keep that money rolling in.


    aka; He's an idiot to not produce Transformer's 2 [that is; if he even really was planning on a sequel at ALL...LOL..] because seeing as how good the first one did; you know that the second one is bound to pull in a respectable amount of revenue.


    But like the other dood said; No Transformer's 2; ? What it all comes down to is--> seriously; who cares anyways? It's not like we CANT live without him making a sequel. For god's sake; the 1st is already out and there's nothing he can do about "NOT MAKING" that one =p.....



    whatever. done.=]

    bye.

    21.8.2007 14:18 #28

  • DXR88

    Microsoft at this point is a major supporter of hd dvd true toshiba made hd dvd technology but microsoft is toshibas bank. both company are multi billion dollar corps. Sony is just one multi billion dollar corp.

    21.8.2007 14:21 #29

  • NexGen76

    Quote:@NexGen76

    Quote:Bay's site has grown in popularity in recent months thanks in part to the star director's unusually outspoken outbursts, although whether his latest threat holds firm remains to be seen.Ah looks like we just FORGOT to quote that; now didn't we?

    Seriously; you're talking Michael Bay. Pretty much a celebrity; that makes a sh*tload of dough. Of course; that means he likes to keep that money rolling in.


    aka; He's an idiot to not produce Transformer's 2 [that is; if he even really was planning on a sequel at ALL...LOL..] because seeing as how good the first one did; you know that the second one is bound to pull in a respectable amount of revenue.


    But like the other dood said; No Transformer's 2; ? What it all comes down to is--> seriously; who cares anyways? It's not like we CANT live without him making a sequel. For god's sake; the 1st is already out and there's nothing he can do about "NOT MAKING" that one =p.....



    whatever. done.=]

    bye.    You right he is a celebrity but also a billion movie producer for Paramount what you don't see is that if Transformers is only released on HD-DVD that cut into the proceeds that he is in title to.Other words he feel that they are taking money out his pockets.



    Originally posted by DXR88: Microsoft at this point is a major supporter of hd dvd true toshiba made hd dvd technology but microsoft is toshibas bank. both company are multi billion dollar corps. Sony is just one multi billion dollar corp.Your right some what but Sony isn't the only one that has a Big bank in the BDA camp.But to say Microsoft is Toshiba bank i don't think so because if they were why didn't they fully commit to toshbia by add a HD-DVD drive in side the 360 which would have made alot of sense.But opt to have a add-on & hinted that there might be a Blu-Ray add-on if Blu-Ray was the clear winner of this format war.But i personal don't have a issue with Microsoft giving money to Paramount to make this. deal.I'm waiting to see what BDA going to come up with & i know its going to be something huge because they don't mind spending money to back there format.

    21.8.2007 14:47 #30

  • jcur31

    The XBOX 360 is still primarily a gaming machine. They plan to keep the games within the limits of a DVD. That said, they are trying to keep the machines affordable for gamers. That's why its an ADD-ON HD-DVD.

    Lets talk reality. Sony has shown that they can care less about gaming, all they advertise its ability to do everything but gaming. Like myself, I bet most people only bought the PS3 for the Blu-Ray capabilities. I own Zero games for it. I have owned about 5 total but I always take them back to gamestop to trade them in for the better 360 version of the game. I felt stupid so I got a couple games so I wasn't neglecting my PS3, but when it was all said and done, I took them all back.

    All said and done, Microsoft doesn't want to force you to pay an extra $250 for a gaming system if you don't want a high def player. Yes the PS3's are only $499 right now, but when all the 60 gigs are gone, that's it, its back to $599 again compared to the 360's $349.

    21.8.2007 15:22 #31

  • NexGen76

    Originally posted by jcur31: The XBOX 360 is still primarily a gaming machine. They plan to keep the games within the limits of a DVD. That said, they are trying to keep the machines affordable for gamers. That's why its an ADD-ON HD-DVD.

    Lets talk reality. Sony has shown that they can care less about gaming, all they advertise its ability to do everything but gaming. Like myself, I bet most people only bought the PS3 for the Blu-Ray capabilities. I own Zero games for it. I have owned about 5 total but I always take them back to gamestop to trade them in for the better 360 version of the game. I felt stupid so I got a couple games so I wasn't neglecting my PS3, but when it was all said and done, I took them all back.

    All said and done, Microsoft doesn't want to force you to pay an extra $250 for a gaming system if you don't want a high def player. Yes the PS3's are only $499 right now, but when all the 60 gigs are gone, that's it, its back to $599 again compared to the 360's $349.
    For the sake of this news tread im not going to get into that issue because IPTV,hd movie download(LIVE),DVR,& HD-DVD add-on,360 elite with HDMI & full HD support.......That really looks like Microsoft 360 is primarily for gaming.Affordable for gamer are you serious when Microsoft Accessories there customer to death & 20 gig HD which is laughable,on top of that they don't give there customers a option to upgrade to a bigger HD like Sony.I would be here all day talking about this but Sony & Microsoft does the same things but in a different way.Thats reality for ya !

    21.8.2007 15:53 #32

  • jcur31

    It's relative to each other. $349 with a 20 GB is fine for gaming. I played a lot of games and I never got close to filling my 20GB. Sony makes me pay $599 for the same experience, if I am only gaming. that's a $250 difference for just gaming.

    If you want to do other things you have the option with a 360 if you would CHOOSE to spend more money.

    So relatively the 360 is much more affordable.

    Like it or not, the days of buying a new system for under a hundred bucks are over. well unless you want to buy a super Nintendo!

    21.8.2007 17:35 #33

  • club42

    Personally I chose HD-DVD. But who cares who wins the format war. Either way your going to be able to purchase the loosing formats players (for cheap) for as long as your disks last and longer than it takes for the next gen format war to start. If your chosen format looses then the other will be cheap enough that it wont matter to have both. Is it not a surprise that after the microsoft - sony console wars that they will both
    be doing the same thing with movie players. Who wants to share the money
    like they have to do with sd dvd when one can become a monopaly like sony was with the ps2. This kind of competition will spread in future years to all types of technology.

    21.8.2007 17:35 #34

  • nobrainer

    Wow the sony fanboy is going crazy here!

    both hd formats are bad because of HDCP, aacs but blu-ray has BD+ also which is the most anti consumer drm ever created, its even worse that sony's xcp rootkit(extended copy protection), so i will be happy once sony and their drm laden blu-ray dies a death.



    Track What Companies Have Edited Wiki http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/ (very heavy load atm)

    22.8.2007 01:04 #35

  • NexGen76

    Originally posted by nobrainer: Wow the sony fanboy is going crazy here!

    both hd formats are bad because of HDCP, aacs but blu-ray has BD+ also which is the most anti consumer drm ever created, its even worse that sony's xcp rootkit(extended copy protection), so i will be happy once sony and their drm laden blu-ray dies a death.    Sound like a true pirate to me ?

    22.8.2007 11:00 #36

  • hughjars

    Bay has since seen the error of his ways & HD DVD (which he had commented upon without seeing or knowing anything about it save what his Blu-ray supporting drinking buddies had told/misinformed him about).

    I'm having a great big laugh reading the Blu-ray fanclub trying so hard to pretend this unique
    (people have gone from format exclusive to format neutral before but no-one has ever actually dumped a format entirely)
    Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Films/Nickelodeon move is not really very significant......and you'll find Viacom/Paramount are saying the change is "indefinite" and not, as some are trying to claim, limited to 18months either.

    Also you've got to laugh at the brazen cheek of the 'let the customer decide' rantings of some Blu-ray supporters......you've got to wonder what happened to their principles and their letter writing campaigns to Sony, Fox, Disney etc etc.
    LMAO. :P

    BTW expect more good news for HD DVD at CEDIA in a couple of weeks time.
    Warner to return to being HD DVD exclusive next?
    Disney to go neutral?
    Lionsgate to go neutral?
    Fox?

    Actually Fox's position is pretty weird, even tho no-one had mentioned it, they said in their press release (responding to the Viacome/Paramount news) that they had no current plans to go format neutral.
    Which is a pretty odd thing to raise considering no-one else had.

    22.8.2007 15:28 #37

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by hughjars: Bay has since seen the error of his ways & HD DVD (which he had commented upon without seeing or knowing anything about it save what his Blu-ray supporting drinking buddies had told/misinformed him about.

    I'm having a great big laugh reading the Blu-ray fanclub trying so hard to pretend this unique (no-one has ever dumped a format before) Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Films/Nickelodeon move is not really very significant.

    Also you've got to laugh at the brazen cheek of the 'let the customer decide' rantings of some Blu-ray supporters......you've got to wonder what happened to their principles and their letter writing campaigns to Sony, Fox, Disney etc etc.
    LMAO. :P

    BTW expect more good news for HD DVD at CEDIA in a couple of weeks time.
    Warner to return to being HD DVD exclusive next?
    Disney to go neutral?
    Lionsgate to go neutral?
    Fox?

    Actually Fox's position is pretty weird, even tho no-one had mentioned it, they said in their press release (responding to the Viacome/Paramount news) that they had no current plans to go format neutral.
    Which is a pretty odd thing to raise considering no-one else had.    Sounds like fox is trying to distract from the real issues as always ^_~


    that or its a fraulein slip :P

    22.8.2007 15:35 #38

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by zippyDSM: Sounds like fox is trying to distract from the real issues as always ^_~


    that or its a fraulein slip :P     - Pressure to get a stack of cash from Sony?

    (s'funny how the Blu-ray fans love to protest that Viacom/Paramount were bought off - with $150 million!? how likely is that seeing as it's but a mere pittance to such a huge corporation as Viacom - yet Sony can do their buying off with impunity in the fanclub's eyes.
    I'd suggest that instead of inventing BS about pay-offs the Blu-ray side actually stop ignoring Viacom/Paramounts comments & sit down and give some serious consideration what a studio that actually evaluated their format for a year had to say about it all)

    22.8.2007 15:42 #39

  • varikelo

    This is a major hit for all the folks out there trying to choose the right format, like me!

    I was fist considering HD DVD, for the price, obvious, but, when almost every major movie studio decided to go BR I changed my mind and decided to buy a BR player next x-mas season. But with this movement, I’m not so sure anymore…

    The bad thing about this is that most people will likely wait too, and this is where everybody lost, including the consumers, the manufacturers and the movie business.

    One thing for sure… for all those folks saying this is not something to worry about for Sony, they’re wrong. In fact, with only another major studio going HDDVD exclusive things will become complicated for the BR group. All eyes right now are at Warner, although they already said will continue neutral, they can change their minds depending on how the market reacts to all this issue.

    22.8.2007 15:51 #40

  • ZippyDSM

    Quote:Originally posted by zippyDSM: Sounds like fox is trying to distract from the real issues as always ^_~


    that or its a fraulein slip :P     - Pressure to get a stack of cash from Sony?

    (s'funny how the Blu-ray fans love to protest that Viacom/Paramount were bought off - with $150 million!? how likely is that seeing as it's but a mere pittance to such a huge corporation as Viacom - yet Sony can do their buying off with impunity in the fanclub's eyes.
    I'd suggest that instead of inventing BS about pay-offs the Blu-ray side actually stop ignoring Viacom/Paramounts comments & sit down and give some serious consideration what a studio that actually evaluated their format for a year had to say about it all)    I think the BR camp would be ebtter off making BR I dunno cheaper and betterit dose not help sony is misleading the group into proprietary format purgatory.......

    varikelo
    My advice,don't buy in to either,get a solid dual format player when they come out and you can enjoy both and let the fools fight their petty fights for format glory.

    22.8.2007 15:55 #41

  • borhan9

    People need to make choices in regards to what formats they would like. When their will be a winner will be far in the future.

    22.8.2007 22:18 #42

  • ZippyDSM

    Originally posted by borhan9: People need to make choices in regards to what formats they would like. When their will be a winner will be far in the future.Not really,a solid dual player will save you 400-900+ and let you experiment with the formats so you can find the one you like only to have it removed in the long run :P.

    23.8.2007 03:57 #43

  • dblbogey7

    Geez, go on vacation for a week and you miss all the exciting news!

    Now this is what I want to see from HD DVD group and what I've been clamoring for for a while now. This proves to me that they can play hardball just as well as the BDA. This ensures survival of the format, healthy competition, continued improvement, and lower prices.

    23.8.2007 04:31 #44

  • ronnybuck

    Sony needs to stuff it just like the Beta Max was. They cannot take advantage of people and get by with it forever. I tried one of their DVD recorders and took it back just like others did. The recording quality sucked and was a pain to use.

    24.8.2007 14:30 #45

  • kebooble

    I think Viacom owns Paramount and Blockbuster. If so they are playing both sides

    24.8.2007 18:30 #46

  • DC5R

    Originally posted by ronnybuck: Sony needs to stuff it just like the Beta Max was. They cannot take advantage of people and get by with it forever. I tried one of their DVD recorders and took it back just like others did. The recording quality sucked and was a pain to use.Interesting, my first DVD recorder was a Sony and it worked perfectly and was very user friendly and this was a Japanese model and I can read Japanese just a little bit, now I have a Toshiba model(again Japanese) with a built-in HD and it actually pisses me off at times as it is not anywhere as user friendly. Main reason I went with it is because my LCD is also a Toshiba and they talk to one another. Were you even alive when Betamax was released? I was and the quality was actually far superior to VCR machines. Sony just killed themselves with it.

    Now about HDDVD and BD, personally I could care which format wins, currently I have BD as I have a PS3 and about 20 movies for it, if it somehow doesn't exist in the future, so be it. Life goes on, but I am not going to not enjoy something now and keep waiting because it might not be there later. Also, with as big as Sony Pictures is and all of its subsidiaries this format war will go on for a very long time, because as long as Sony has its PS3 being purchased with BD, they will keep supporting their own machine and not release their big titles on HDDVD. Who wins...nobody at all really.

    24.8.2007 18:42 #47

  • club42

    Quote:The bad thing about this is that most people will likely wait too, and this is where everybody lost, including the consumers, the manufacturers and the movie business.
    I got an hd-dvd player when everyone thought blue-ray was a sure winner. Support whatever technology that you like the most and increase the chance of it being around for awhile. DC5R isn't toshiba Korean? Anyway I agree with you that it will not be the end of the world if my chosen format doesn't win. I live for today not tomorrow.

    24.8.2007 19:07 #48

  • DC5R

    Quote: I got an hd-dvd player when everyone thought blue-ray was a sure winner. Support whatever technology that you like the most and increase the chance of it being around for awhile. DC5R isn't toshiba Korean? Anyway I agree with you that it will not be the end of the world if my chosen format doesn't win. I live for today not tomorrow.Toshiba is definitely a Japanese company. Korean mainstream companies are Samsung and LG. Sure there might be others as well, but these are the big names in the market. And by Japanese models, I meant actually made and sold for the Japanese market not where the companies are from. ;)

    24.8.2007 19:14 #49

  • wazzat

    Long live HD. Don't have either format. Don't have an HD TV. After buying a 19" lcd monitor for twice the price a few years ago, and a Sony Mavica for $500 4 years ago, I'll wait. Long live commercials on pay TV!

    25.8.2007 05:35 #50

  • ronnybuck

    Yes I was alive when Beta-Max came out. They were too expensive. When JVC came out with the vhs the favorite movie was Rocky and the price was right. The masses spoke with their pocketbook. In fact I go back to a 1 inch reel to reel B&W recorder made by Craig. It was a monster and we used it to do the State of Division Message for our company. It had it's flaws and later we replaced it with a RCA Commercial Grade that used a cartridge of their own design. It was a lot smaller but would require multiple tapes if the boss got windy. Then one day Westinghouse had a warehouse full of Tape Units that they could not sell, so they practically gave them away. They saw the handwriting on the wall that something better was coming fast. They were color reel to reel but worked very well for a lot of schools and universities in the early stages of using Video recorders in the classroom. It was not too long the vhs took the market for the masses and schools that produced tapes for mail order in home schooling. The rest is history. The computer reshaped everything after that.
    Right now my biggest delema is replacing an old TV with a new one. We have analog cable which is doing rather well after 20 years. No digital or HD stuff for several years they say. The infracture has to be changed again. It has all we need for entertainment for now. I am too old to mess with the digital stuff anyway. I have looked at the new LCD, Plasma and others and they say the picture is blurry on standard cable and to get another tube set while they are avaliable. So my mission when I feel like it is to go look. Any reccomendations would be appreciated.

    25.8.2007 06:21 #51

  • DXR88

    Ronnybuck, buy an SDTV that will keep you going after the switch from analogue to digetal

    25.8.2007 07:17 #52

  • wetsparks

    There are to many responses for me to go through, since I'm sure 90% are fan boy comments anyways, I just wanted to fix the quote from the CEO guy there.

    "Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theater, and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience. I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount because we were paid a bunch of money by the HD-DVD people to go exclusive to make it worth cutting out part of the market."

    quick edit here: No I don't own either "next gen" format, and won't until the prices are similar to this gens prices. I see no reason to buy a brand new tv, new player, to play hi def movies when I can keep my current tv, current player, and most movies look pretty damn good as is. Only movies that would look good in HD are movies like 300, King Kond, Lord of the Rings, James Bond, but others like Click, Rush Hour 3, and others of their ilk just wouldn't seem worth the extra money.

    25.8.2007 08:53 #53

  • voyager

    Well,no transformers no Star Trek movies and series i think that is time to buy Xb360 add on HD-DVD.
    this is probably the begining of a surprise,i think that many others companies will make a jump.

    25.8.2007 08:54 #54

  • ronnybuck

    Well I just saw a 27 Toshiba that is tube and has the digital capability. If the picture is HD then use widescreen or if 4:3 then use zoom. By the way the picture is pretty good when in HD widescreen. Hope it does OK on regular cable as this is the real intent. All stores run a HD picture to all their displays now. Could not find a regular analog no where unless I do pot luck at GoodWill store.

    25.8.2007 13:08 #55

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by jcur31: The XBOX 360 is still primarily a gaming machine. They plan to keep the games within the limits of a DVD. That said, they are trying to keep the machines affordable for gamers. That's why its an ADD-ON HD-DVD.

    Lets talk reality. Sony has shown that they can care less about gaming, all they advertise its ability to do everything but gaming. Like myself, I bet most people only bought the PS3 for the Blu-Ray capabilities. I own Zero games for it. I have owned about 5 total but I always take them back to gamestop to trade them in for the better 360 version of the game. I felt stupid so I got a couple games so I wasn't neglecting my PS3, but when it was all said and done, I took them all back.

    All said and done, Microsoft doesn't want to force you to pay an extra $250 for a gaming system if you don't want a high def player. Yes the PS3's are only $499 right now, but when all the 60 gigs are gone, that's it, its back to $599 again compared to the 360's $349.    absolutly not:
    why i opted to go ps3 vs 360:
    >3rd generation gamming
    >bw 2nd, 1st gen compatible
    >b) built in
    >sd dvd upscaler built in
    >out of box wifi complient
    >FREE ONLINE GAMMING!!!!!!
    >sacd/cd/mp3/atrac/win media 11 share compliant
    >hdmi compliant
    >blu-tooth controller, dvd controler as well
    >new 80gb version is whisper quiet
    >hands down best controller on the market
    >replaceable standard sata hdd
    >very cool looking unit
    >i only buy b) movies no hd-dvd library i only rent hd-dvd

    now why i did not buy 360
    >incredibly bad controller design
    >would have to buy outboard hd-dvd unit and wire it to console.. ugly
    >INTERNET GAMMING IS ELITE AND COST PER MONTH WILL EVENTUALLY SURPASS THE ADDED EXPENSE NOW TO GO WITH PS3 AND FREE ONLINE GAMMING
    >reported heat failures of the unit
    >proprietary hdd
    >i personally do not buy hd-dvd movies only rent them
    >cost factor:
    360unit =449 (no one is going to buy the 279 bottom feeder version)
    wifi = 99 (you need this to make the 360 wifi compliant)
    headset = 60 (ps3 will marry right to your blutooth for your cell phone)
    hd-dvd =179

    >>cost xbox 360= 787 + monthly online costs

    >>cost ps3 80gb= 599 or 60gb= 499 zero monthly online costs

    Where are the savings on the 360?


    >as far as paramount leaving... who cares? if they even go through with it this time? when they come back to b) i'll buy thier movies again disney is still b) exclusive.

    >only one manufacturer makes a stand alone hd-dvd player toshiba. the lg multi does not count as the hd-dvd side is terrible
    >many manufactures make b) players

    26.8.2007 10:30 #56

  • DXR88

    CappyX Use you head. This News thread is about The New Movie Formats
    Not Why Xbox Sucks Or why you opted ps3 over xbox 360.

    Anyway CappyX Thats were sonys downfall lies there not making enough stand alone blue ray players and the ones they are are almost if not the same price as a playstion3.

    Also While your playing games and adding prices and savings here a blower for ya. There are only 7,exclusive only titles for ps3. the rest are multiplatform and 4 of those seven games are online compatibale

    26.8.2007 13:22 #57

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by DXR88: CappyX Use you head. This News thread is about The New Movie Formats
    Not Why Xbox Sucks Or why you opted ps3 over xbox 360.

    Anyway CappyX Thats were sonys downfall lies there not making enough stand alone blue ray players and the ones they are are almost if not the same price as a playstion3.

    Also While your playing games and adding prices and savings here a blower for ya. There are only 7,exclusive only titles for ps3. the rest are multiplatform and 4 of those seven games are online compatibale    DXR88 who cares?
    the point of this whole columb i wrote is to say:
    1:who cares what paramount does (see it's to the thread, it's the part you ignored)
    2:for the money ps3 is a great choice vs xbox
    3:hd-dvd players are cheap but the prefered platform is still b)i have an hd-dvd player and no one wants to watch it. if the movie is available in b) or hddvd everyone here wants the b) version. when i talk about my hd-dvd in public no one seems to care however when i mention b) people are excited to talk about it.
    paramount can go do what ever floats thier boat they will simply come back to b) once they see thier sales slide.

    why doesn't paramount get off the darn fence and just go multi-format or hybrid?

    26.8.2007 13:40 #58

  • DXR88

    Then again. It all falls down to Personnel Preference, now doesn't it.

    27.8.2007 02:50 #59

  • ChromeMud

    @ cappyx

    Your arguments to thumb down HD-DVD and the 360 have that many holes in that I can't be bothered to say why as many others like you have said similar and it just amounts to fanboy crap!
    I think Blu-Ray has a major fight on it's hands.Sony made a Trojan Horse/PS3 to force feed it's own format onto the masses to disguise an early win yet it has failed miserably because the numbers just don't add up when it comes to Blu-Ray films sold over HD-DVD.Sony would of stole the market if their hardware was cheaper but it isn't and people vote with their wallets so I think HD-DVD will surpass Blu-Ray in the long run.

    27.8.2007 06:32 #60

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by ChromeMud: @ cappyx

    Your arguments to thumb down HD-DVD and the 360 have that many holes in that I can't be bothered to say why as many others like you have said similar and it just amounts to fanboy crap!
    I think Blu-Ray has a major fight on it's hands.Sony made a Trojan Horse/PS3 to force feed it's own format onto the masses to disguise an early win yet it has failed miserably because the numbers just don't add up when it comes to Blu-Ray films sold over HD-DVD.Sony would of stole the market if their hardware was cheaper but it isn't and people vote with their wallets so I think HD-DVD will surpass Blu-Ray in the long run.    sorry not a sony fan boy a realist:
    my stand alone b) player is a panny b10a this is the best on the market in my opinion i tried the s300 it was a pile of junk.
    ps3: choice is simple best value for the buck and an excellent b) player. the difference this round as compared to the eighties beta/vhs war is that sony owns the format and the studios (sony pictures) so they could sustain this format forever as they own large sums of money as well.
    i also bought the original xbox last round over the ps2 for graphics and sound however that controller is a real piece of cr*p both myself and my wife hate it so this round ps3.

    as far as holes.. none choose what you like, no one cares, however very few seem to care about hd-dvd when i am discussing formats with others.

    bottom line: b) is not going away sony owns way too much to throw the format away and they have disney behind them.
    hd-dvd will probrably survive as well
    in my opinion we will have two formats avaiable to us until the next great format is created.

    it all comes down to preference:
    i own both formats my choice is b) over hd-dvd

    chrome perhaps you are the hd-dvd fanboy???

    27.8.2007 08:37 #61

  • ChromeMud

    @ cappyx

    I don't own either HD format.At the moment,I'd choose a HD-DVD standalone player as they are cheaper and have all the features that older Blu-Ray players do not,ie,PIP,advanced interactivity and downloadable content.DRM is on both formats but Blu-Ray seems to be a step too far with BD+.It's bad enough with malware, rootkits, spyware infecting your PC let alone BD+ virtual machine crap also having a go.
    I hate the fact that this war started in the first place and it's not doing anyone any favours.Price is everything,the Wii proved that with consoles and I think the same will apply with the HD formats too.I don't see how Blu-Ray could be cheaper than HD-DVD as it's technicaly more expensive to produce.My bets are on HD-DVD and I'll get one next year when it's cheaper still.

    27.8.2007 09:47 #62

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by ChromeMud: @ cappyx

    I don't own either HD format.At the moment,I'd choose a HD-DVD standalone player as they are cheaper and have all the features that older Blu-Ray players do not,ie,PIP,advanced interactivity and downloadable content.DRM is on both formats but Blu-Ray seems to be a step too far with BD+.It's bad enough with malware, rootkits, spyware infecting your PC let alone BD+ virtual machine crap also having a go.
    I hate the fact that this war started in the first place and it's not doing anyone any favours.Price is everything,the Wii proved that with consoles and I think the same will apply with the HD formats too.I don't see how Blu-Ray could be cheaper than HD-DVD as it's technicaly more expensive to produce.My bets are on HD-DVD and I'll get one next year when it's cheaper still.    actually waiting may be a good thing. i have heard a rumor in some of the forums of possibly a 149.00 hd-dvd player comming from walmart. don't know how much truth is in this but that would put a hurting on b) and put hd-dvd in joe sixpack's price range.

    the toshiba a2 is on amazon for 238 so not that far off and it is a really nice unit especially for that money.... well worth it.

    27.8.2007 10:18 #63

  • ChromeMud

    @ cappyx

    I heard about Walmart getting cheap Chinese HD-DVD players
    and that could be significant in expanding the HD-DVD userbase in the US.This could affect everyones buying decision,even in the UK,cuz we is watching you over the pond!
    It's hard to be patient when the cash is in the hand but I know it's the best decision for now.I'm not desperate to upgrade to a HD TV until next year,hopefuly when SED/Laser/LED LCD TV's become available at a good price.Or maybe the year after that,when the hardware will have matured enough to give consumers more confidence in upgrading to HD.
    I'm fed up hearing about firmware upgrades,copy protection upgrades,HDMI revisions and extra layers being added to the disk to increase space making current hardware obsolete before the warranty runs out.
    HD-DVD seems to have it's spec finalised and approved by the DVD-Forum whereas Blu-Ray seems to be a wild child constantly changing it's behaviour at the slightest sniff of technical weakness.
    I believe consumers like stability aswell as value and HD-DVD seems to be the better choice, but time will tell...

    27.8.2007 14:07 #64

  • DXR88

    Exactly, People rushed to buy the new technology without first waiting to see who wins this war. Its not Over untill one of them admites defeat

    27.8.2007 17:54 #65

  • cappyx

    chrome:
    my older rear proj tv got zapped by lightning which sent me tv shopping. i didn't rush to buy i shopped and waited several months and ended up with last years model at clearence. i ended up taking home a nice new panny hd 58" plasma for 2299 so yes you are right patience is golden and we are very pleased with the tv. i swung some great deals on a new hdmi1.3a compliant avr, a panny b) player, and a toshiba hd-dvd. i looked at and considered the new spec for b) 1.1 comming in october and it adds pip and some other stuff that i have no interest in possibly i would be interested in b) 2.0 live no date for that release. in any event i took the plunge shopped smart and am very happy. i have dish net hd which has the most hd channels right now i think 40 something not including local hd and i basically have stopped watching the sd channels except for sci-fi fridays. in any event good luck on your wait.

    dxr88:
    have you entertained the possibility that neither format will admit defeat and we will have two formats until the next gen format is born? possibly just a card like a sd type that you just plug in to a slot.

    27.8.2007 21:33 #66

  • DXR88

    Yes, that is a possability. But i think that they'll be used for games consoles more than actual movies,If that they never win.

    besides, i can wait im in no rush to buy the latest greatist thing.

    28.8.2007 03:56 #67

  • hughjars

    This is just one sign of the reversal Blu-ray has suffered with the Viacom/Paramount move.

    When industry advisors turn (as has happened here) you just know all that chatter about 'momentum' has been lost.

    http://www.technewsworld.com/story/WIkqR...-the-Week.xhtml

    There are 2 big things to look out for
    (1) the DVD Forum is meeting next week and we are likely to hear some interesting HD DVD news there afterwards and
    (2) CEDIA is in a couple of weeks and the word is that some "very interesting HD DVD news" will be made public there.

    Blu-ray is now on the way to being almost entirely a PS3 proprietary format just as UMD is to PSP, thankfully.

    28.8.2007 06:26 #68

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by hughjars: This is just one sign of the reversal Blu-ray has suffered with the Viacom/Paramount move.

    When industry advisors turn (as has happened here) you just know all that chatter about 'momentum' has been lost.

    http://www.technewsworld.com/story/WIkqR...-the-Week.xhtml

    There are 2 big things to look out for
    (1) the DVD Forum is meeting next week and we are likely to hear some interesting HD DVD news there afterwards and
    (2) CEDIA is in a couple of weeks and the word is that some "very interesting HD DVD news" will be made public there.

    Blu-ray is now on the way to being almost entirely a PS3 proprietary format just as UMD is to PSP, thankfully.    some of what the aricle says is true some is his own personall opinion. look at the top of the artical and it cleary states (opinion) in blue print. many of these story writers write just that thier personal opinions and ignore facts they really don't have too much credibility any longer except with the mindless population.

    paramount announced but has not officialy gone. they want a pay check from sony and they made the same announcement before.

    >actually look back at my cost analisist and it is clear xbox 360 is more expensive equiped with what ps3 has by 300 bucks.i don't get why people insist it is cheaper.
    >sony should release a game console only ps3 to compete
    >sony should have never waited until after christmas to release the ps3 this was plain stupid and the people who made this decision need to be let go from the company.
    >b) tech costs more and everyone already knew this from the start it's no surprise. b) is a new format that requires a complete machine overhaul to manufacture them where hd-dvd is made by the same machines that make sd-dvd
    >except if youre a pirate a hd-dvd or b) burner has no value with external and internal hdd priced way low there simply is no value in it.
    >if you're a pirate then you want hd-dvd to win as there is already many programs out there that take this format apart it is as volnerable as a standard dvd.. b) on the other hand continues to be , for the most part, secure.

    28.8.2007 08:42 #69

  • DXR88

    Cappyx, there you go again relating to Gaming consols as a peice of this war. its a battle for a new video format and priporatory Player
    Format. the initial launch name for dvd was Digital Video Disc Not Digital Versatile Disc, as its now known.

    28.8.2007 09:32 #70

  • ChromeMud

    The console war won't change much as I think there's room for all 3 players to continue generation after generation.
    They all have something to offer.
    The HD format war is a problem.When the masses shift priority to one format over the other which I think will happen when the price is low enough then a victor will emerge.Price is everything because consumers want value for money,a bargain so to speak and HD-DVD could reach that goal sooner than Sony would like to admit.

    28.8.2007 09:48 #71

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by ChromeMud: The console war won't change much as I think there's room for all 3 players to continue generation after generation.
    They all have something to offer.
    The HD format war is a problem.When the masses shift priority to one format over the other which I think will happen when the price is low enough then a victor will emerge.Price is everything because consumers want value for money,a bargain so to speak and HD-DVD could reach that goal sooner than Sony would like to admit.    thihg is the players are pretty much competivly priced.

    a good b) player is about 599
    and a good hd-dvd player is 589 (toshiba xa2)
    the toshiba a2, a20 are bottom feeder low budget models with great video quality, average upscaling, a very cheap remote with what looks like a sticker on it with the button functions, no multi channel analog output.. just entry level cheap.

    thing is b) could make a similar entry level one and they are pretty close to that with the sony s300 at 449 it competes with the a20 however adds mca, and a far better remote.

    so once again i don't see how hd-dvd is cheaper. the problem seems to be no one at the b) camp is thinking correctly and releasing thier own scaled down entry level bottom feeder model.

    what b) needs to do is start thinking outside the box as it would be simple for them to take the market if they could only figure out a few simple things.

    28.8.2007 10:14 #72

  • eatsushi

    Originally posted by hughjars: (2) CEDIA is in a couple of weeks and the word is that some "very interesting HD DVD news" will be made public there.
    If it's CEDIA then it must be hardware related. CEDIA's exhibitors are hardware CE companies catering to system integrators and HT designers and builders. I'm guessing it has something to do with the sub $200 Chinese players.

    dblbogey7: are you attending?

    *Added: Venturer HD DVD player announced today:

    link to infected Venturer.com removed -Ketola

    28.8.2007 11:59 #73

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by eatsushi: *Added: Venturer HD DVD player announced today:

    link to infected Venturer.com removed -Ketola     - Would I lie to you? :D ;)

    The good news for HD DVD is building, Amazon report a huge rise in the sales of Toshiba HD A2s and HD DVD disc sales have shot up.

    Not too shabby for a format that is, according to the BDA & the rest of the Blu-ray fanclub, "dead", huh?

    ......oh and one last thing, the Venturer player is made by Alco.

    Alco also makes Wal-Mart's Durabrand products.

    So the rumours of a big Walmart deal (that were denied and laughed at by some of the Blu-ray fanclub) look likely to be true afterall.

    28.8.2007 15:18 #74

  • DC5R

    Why are a lot of people ignoring the fact that Sony is a major player in the movie industry? If HD-DVD wins over the masses, they will be left without a major piece of the pie if Sony never releases their content on HD-DVD. So nobody wins as I stated earlier. Sony was absolutely brilliant in the past in scooping up all they did in the movie industry. Can anyone actually say otherwise to that and believe it? Toshiba and the HD-DVD players have no strong foot in the door and are relying on the other movie makers to come online, but what really is that going to do, it forces consumers to spend more money to have both formats if wanting to watch HD, which eventually regular DVD may just go to the wayside.

    28.8.2007 15:39 #75

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by DC5R: Why are a lot of people ignoring the fact that Sony is a major player in the movie industry? If HD-DVD wins over the masses, they will be left without a major piece of the pie if Sony never releases their content on HD-DVD. So nobody wins as I stated earlier. Sony was absolutely brilliant in the past in scooping up all they did in the movie industry. Can anyone actually say otherwise to that and believe it? Toshiba and the HD-DVD players have no strong foot in the door and are relying on the other movie makers to come online, but what really is that going to do, it forces consumers to spend more money to have both formats if wanting to watch HD, which eventually regular DVD may just go to the wayside.that is correct they own studios this time round and disney is on thier side. don't count on paramount switching until you see it.

    yeah i wonder when the end date is for sd-dvd?

    i'm thinking the sales of the a2 directly reflect the 238 price at amazon. my theory is i have already expensed the money for a b) player so why not get the other piece of the hd pie at a cheap price. however the down side is hd-dvd may always be thought of as second rate no prestige ie only you care that you have one.

    if paramount starts finding thier movies on p2p networks as a result of the cracked hd-dvd format and thier overal profit slides as a result they will go right back to b).

    28.8.2007 21:17 #76

  • cappyx

    Quote:Originally posted by hughjars: (2) CEDIA is in a couple of weeks and the word is that some "very interesting HD DVD news" will be made public there.
    If it's CEDIA then it must be hardware related. CEDIA's exhibitors are hardware CE companies catering to system integrators and HT designers and builders. I'm guessing it has something to do with the sub $200 Chinese players.

    dblbogey7: are you attending?

    *Added: Venturer HD DVD player announced today:

    link to infected Venturer.com removed -Ketola     if it's 200 it won't matter much. the toshiba a2 is 239 and does the same thing and it's a brand name. if it's 149 it may matter a bit at its initial release but there really is nothing exciting about this unit.

    the unit is still only 1080i, no multi channel analog output so you will need hdmi connectivity to get the dolby true hd otherwise it's just old school optical

    28.8.2007 21:32 #77

  • hughjars

    Actually on the various forums there is talk that the SoC design of this Venturer unit ought to have analogue outputs as well as HDMI, this will make it a very interesting prospect.

    The talk is of an offical retail price of $199 but an in-store price of $149.




    Note the disc drawer on the opposite side to the Toshiba HD A2 unit, this is extremely unlikely to be anything other than a brand new & up-to-date unit, certainly not a rebadged HD A2.
    Interesting
    (and if it has analogue audio outputs then, providing it is as good as the specs say, I might prefer it to the HD A2)

    This thing (like the 2 other Chinese brands coming) is going to sell big, mark my words.

    The Viacom/Paramount rational just becomes ever clearer.

    (not that the shallow-'thinking' will not continue to just ignore what Viacom/Paramount actually had to say on the matter & cling to pointless fantasies - without a single shred of actual proof, officially now denied by Microsoft and actually started & put about by other Blu-ray fans - that a Hollywood giant like Viacom/Paramount could or would be 'bought' for a piffling - to them - $150 million)

    29.8.2007 08:36 #78

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by hughjars: Actually on the various forums there is talk that the SoC design of this Venturer unit ought to have analogue outputs as well as HDMI, this will make it a very interesting prospect.

    The talk is of an offical retail price of $199 but an in-store price of $149.




    Note the disc drawer on the opposite side to the Toshiba HD A2 unit, this is extremely unlikely to be anything other than a brand new & up-to-date unit, certainly not a rebadged HD A2.
    Interesting
    (and if it has analogue audio outputs then, providing it is as good as the specs say, I might prefer it to the HD A2)

    This thing (like the 2 other Chinese brands coming) is going to sell big, mark my words.

    The Viacom/Paramount rational just becomes ever clearer.

    (not that the shallow-'thinking' will not continue to just ignore what Viacom/Paramount actually had to say on the matter & cling to pointless fantasies - without a single shred of actual proof, officially now denied by Microsoft and actually started & put about by other Blu-ray fans - that a Hollywood giant like Viacom/Paramount could or would be 'bought' for a piffling - to them - $150 million)    the word here is "IF" and i'm willing to bet not. most avrs have gone the way of hdmi. to make a unit cheaper the mca outputs are removed and the sd-dvd upconversion often suffers.

    it may be an initial burst of sales followed by a slew of returns if the quality is not there. most people who have already bought b) will buy one of these to have both formats however they will go to b) first as they will always see the b) player as thier quality unit and the hd-dvd as the cheap way to get the rest.

    29.8.2007 10:27 #79

  • NexGen76

    There is a rumor floating around the net that the Exclusive Paramount have with HD-DVD is only 18 months but who knows if thats true or not.But i have seen it on a lot of sites.

    Quote:However, according to the New York Times, the studios are receiving $150 million in incentives to stay exclusive for the next 18 months, or through Christmas 2008. The Times couldn't reveal where the incentive was coming from, though, only clarifying that Microsoft claims to have not been involved in such a deal.http://www.cinematical.com/2007/08/22/hd...attle-rages-on/


    29.8.2007 13:33 #80

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by cappyx: the word here is "IF" and i'm willing to bet not. - We shall see when we get a look at the back of this unit.

    But those suggesting it will have analogue audio outputs have a couple of things in their favour -
    (1) the SoC type used is designed to and
    (2) analogue audio outputs are hardly unique to any DVD player, 'cheap' or not.
    The Toshiba A1 had analogue outputs and HDMI for instance and the XA series still has them both too.

    Originally posted by cappyx: most avrs have gone the way of hdmi. - What do you mean "most"?
    The Toshiba HD A1 had analogue audio outputs them and the XA series still does, only the A1 replacement (the HD A2) dropped them (the A20 always was without them).

    Or have I mistaken your meaning? Did you imagine I was referring to component outputs?!
    Of course it will have component outputs.
    All the HD DVD players have component connections.
    What are you talking about?

    Originally posted by cappyx: to make a unit cheaper the mca outputs are removed and the sd-dvd upconversion often suffers. - Excuse me?
    What, exactly, has analogue outputs got to do with "the sd up-conversion"!?

    Originally posted by cappyx: it may be an initial burst of sales followed by a slew of returns if the quality is not there. - I think anyone wanting to play the 'low cost Chinese = poor reliability' card ought to have a good look at all the Chinese components in their PS3s, S300, Bravia Tvs etc etc.

    Originally posted by cappyx: most people who have already bought b) will buy one of these to have both formats however they will go to b) first as they will always see the b) player as thier quality unit and the hd-dvd as the cheap way to get the rest. - You really have a skewed idea of how far Blu-ray has penetrated the market.
    The 4 or 5 million PS3s (which lets be honest is Blu-ray to all serious intents and purposes) is a tiny fraction of the mainstream mass-market for a/v & DVD.

    Blu-ray has lost the next gen high def DVD war.
    That's it in a nutshell.
    It's just too expensive at all points whether it be from players to the actual disc production.
    HD DVD might not yet 'win' it but Blu-ray has certainly lost.
    PS3 was not a winning strategy, period.
    Blu-ray is going to become the new UMD; it'll be a market worth selling to, of course, but it really isn't going anywhere.

    Originally posted by nextgen76: There is a rumor floating around the net that the Exclusive Paramount have with HD-DVD is only 18 months but who knows if thats true or not.But i have seen it on a lot of sites. - Well seeing as the Viacom/Paramount execs have said "indefinitely" on some later reports how about we just put it down to what it probably is.

    ie yet more rumour mongering by the distressed Blu-ray fanclub anxious to put any kind of positive spin on the news (that Viacom/Paramount dumped Blu-ray) that they can.

    ......and particularly after the ridiculous & savage response from the BDA following the Viacom/Paramount announcement who can blame them?

    29.8.2007 17:08 #81

  • DC5R

    The fact also remains, those who go HD-DVD are still going to lose out on a big portion of the movie industry as well. If it ends up 50-50 support or whatever percentage, nobody wins without having to spend MORE money if they want whatever movie they want in HD.

    You keep calling people Blu-ray fanclub always, why? I don't belong to any fanclub, but I have BD at home. Do you have either format, curious? Your hate and discontent for Sony makes you a fanclub member as well, though you don't seem to see how hypocritical you are by calling out others. Must you always throw out your same fluff in every thread? And that question is not just for you, but for everyone that keeps blowing the same hot worthless trash in almost every post. You don't like something, point has been made several thousand times already, WTF?

    29.8.2007 18:06 #82

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by hughjars: Originally posted by cappyx: the word here is "IF" and i'm willing to bet not. - We shall see when we get a look at the back of this unit.

    But those suggesting it will have analogue audio outputs have a couple of things in their favour -
    (1) the SoC type used is designed to and
    (2) analogue audio outputs are hardly unique to any DVD player, 'cheap' or not.
    The Toshiba A1 had analogue outputs and HDMI for instance and the XA series still has them both too.

    Originally posted by cappyx: most avrs have gone the way of hdmi. - What do you mean "most"?
    The Toshiba HD A1 had analogue audio outputs them and the XA series still does, only the A1 replacement (the HD A2) dropped them (the A20 always was without them).

    Or have I mistaken your meaning? Did you imagine I was referring to component outputs?!
    Of course it will have component outputs.
    All the HD DVD players have component connections.
    What are you talking about?

    Originally posted by cappyx: to make a unit cheaper the mca outputs are removed and the sd-dvd upconversion often suffers. - Excuse me?
    What, exactly, has analogue outputs got to do with "the sd up-conversion"!?

    Originally posted by cappyx: it may be an initial burst of sales followed by a slew of returns if the quality is not there. - I think anyone wanting to play the 'low cost Chinese = poor reliability' card ought to have a good look at all the Chinese components in their PS3s, S300, Bravia Tvs etc etc.

    Originally posted by cappyx: most people who have already bought b) will buy one of these to have both formats however they will go to b) first as they will always see the b) player as thier quality unit and the hd-dvd as the cheap way to get the rest. - You really have a skewed idea of how far Blu-ray has penetrated the market.
    The 4 or 5 million PS3s (which lets be honest is Blu-ray to all serious intents and purposes) is a tiny fraction of the mainstream mass-market for a/v & DVD.

    Blu-ray has lost the next gen high def DVD war.
    That's it in a nutshell.
    It's just too expensive at all points whether it be from players to the actual disc production.
    HD DVD might not yet 'win' it but Blu-ray has certainly lost.
    PS3 was not a winning strategy, period.
    Blu-ray is going to become the new UMD; it'll be a market worth selling to, of course, but it really isn't going anywhere.

    Originally posted by nextgen76: There is a rumor floating around the net that the Exclusive Paramount have with HD-DVD is only 18 months but who knows if thats true or not.But i have seen it on a lot of sites. - Well seeing as the Viacom/Paramount execs have said "indefinitely" on some later reports how about we just put it down to what it probably is.

    ie yet more rumour mongering by the distressed Blu-ray fanclub anxious to put any kind of positive spin on the news (that Viacom/Paramount dumped Blu-ray) that they can.

    ......and particularly after the ridiculous & savage response from the BDA following the Viacom/Paramount announcement who can blame them?    hugh are you on crack or something or just dumb?

    what the hell are you talking about. who said any thing about analog outputs doing what with sd upconversion?

    think before you write stupid sh*t.

    yeah no sh*t the xa2 has mca it's 600 bucks as well not the budget junk you are looking for... sorry. you really expect the world for 149-200 bucks you are on crack.

    i just re-read your comments again and boy i have to say you must be retarded or something..

    1> get your facts right
    2> comment as one unit it's stupid when you break it apart and the drama you want to acieve is the ego of a 3rd grader.
    3>no body with a life really cares about this stupid sh*t so don't act like it's a big deal

    29.8.2007 22:19 #83

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by DC5R: The fact also remains, those who go HD-DVD are still going to lose out on a big portion of the movie industry as well. If it ends up 50-50 support or whatever percentage, nobody wins without having to spend MORE money if they want whatever movie they want in HD.

    You keep calling people Blu-ray fanclub always, why? I don't belong to any fanclub, but I have BD at home. Do you have either format, curious? Your hate and discontent for Sony makes you a fanclub member as well, though you don't seem to see how hypocritical you are by calling out others. Must you always throw out your same fluff in every thread? And that question is not just for you, but for everyone that keeps blowing the same hot worthless trash in almost every post. You don't like something, point has been made several thousand times already, WTF?    they use the fan boy name calling because they know hd-dvd is always going to be second rate. they can't play with the big boys so the next best thing is to bash a great format. i have been in many forums with many poeple who have no regrets on spending 600-1200 for a b) player as long as they are happy with it. I own a panny b10a and i am thrilled with it. 9 seconds from power on to ready for dvd this is .333 seconds longer than a sd-upconverter i own. my toshiba a2 takes a painstaking annoying 30 seconds to boot. seriously where is there hd-dvd player that boots in 9 seconds and please don't throw the chineese junk in the mix as it's not even on the market yet. what they don't get is that there will be 2 formats until the next thing comes along.

    hey by the way exactly which hd-dvd discs are encoded in 5.1 uncompressed 48khz 24bit audio? oh that's right hd-dvd is space limited... too bad

    29.8.2007 22:56 #84

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by DC5R: The fact also remains, those who go HD-DVD are still going to lose out on a big portion of the movie industry as well. - Maybe, in the end (but I seriously doubt that).
    Nevertheless it is the Blu-ray side now that has had the largest loss in this.
    It is the Blu-ray format that has the smallest amount of available content and the smallest amount of exclusive available content.

    Before Paramount's announcement a Blu-Ray supporter had access to 62% of all available HiDef titles, while a HD DVD supporter had access to 61%.

    After the Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Film/Nickelodeon announcement the HD DVD supporter still has 61% - that hasn't changed, but the Blu-Ray supporter now has only 55%.

    This does not take imports into account or odd disks distributed in some countries, (HD DVD's Studio Canal releases aren't there in those stats for instance). The figures are based on:

    http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

    http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

    These numbers cover American releases and availability only.

    Neither owner gives up on half of all available titles.

    The HD DVD supporter misses out on 39% while the Blu-Ray owner now misses out on 45%.

    But if you take into account that 60 of those supposedly 'exclusive' Blu-ray titles are in fact available on HD DVD internationally
    (which thanks to HD DVD being region-free everytime you can buy without worry)
    it turns out Blu-ray currently has in fact only 110 or so exclusive titles
    (and that number was true before this move by Viacom/Paramount. MTV Film/Dreamworks/Nickelodeon, as Paramount ramp up their support of HD DVD that gap can only widen).

    Originally posted by DC5R: If it ends up 50-50 support or whatever percentage, nobody wins without having to spend MORE money if they want whatever movie they want in HD. - You can see the figures above, it isn't even 50/50 now - and as more go HD DVD that share will just get larger and larger for HD DVD.

    Originally posted by DC5R: You keep calling people Blu-ray fanclub always, why? - Certain posters are hear to do nothing less than evangelise and 'soft soap' for the Blu-ray format.

    Originally posted by DC5R: I don't belong to any fanclub, but I have BD at home. - That's great, nothing wrong with that.

    But if you were to show up here spreading partial and one-sided 'fanclub' tales and using inaccurate or false info slamming HD DVD then we might have a debate. :D

    I note you've said nothing about cappyx's ridiculous nonsense that "hd-dvd is always going to be second rate".
    Not exactly even-handed in who and what you choose to quibble over, huh?

    Originally posted by DC5R: Do you have either format, curious? - I run an XBox 360 HD DVD add-on from my PC.

    Originally posted by DC5R: Your hate and discontent for Sony makes you a fanclub member as well, though you don't seem to see how hypocritical you are by calling out others. - Do you honestly believe anyone but the most ludicrous 'love' or 'hate' CE corporations?
    Jeez.
    Wake up.

    Originally posted by DC5R: Must you always throw out your same fluff in every thread? - Well if you can explain how commenting on the latest news of the Venturer sku arriving or Viacom/Paramount dumping Blu-ray & going HD DVD exclusive is repeating myself or "fluff" I'm all ears.

    Originally posted by DC5R: You don't like something, point has been made several thousand times already, WTF? - It's about the news and developments, if you don;'t wish to take part in the debate or comment no-one is forcing you to.

    Originally posted by cappyx: hugh are you on crack or something or just dumb? - LMAO.

    Nice respectful opening, not.

    Originally posted by cappyx: what the hell are you talking about. who said any thing about analog outputs doing what with sd upconversion? - Er, you did.

    You mentioned it here......

    Originally posted by cappyx: the word here is "IF" and i'm willing to bet not. most avrs have gone the way of hdmi. to make a unit cheaper the mca outputs are removed and the sd-dvd upconversion often suffers. - So what were you talking about then?

    Cos I was referring to analogue audio outputs and you mentioned "sd up-conversion" and HDMI which is how come I wondered if you had maybe missed my point and was talking about component outputs.

    Originally posted by cappyx: think before you write stupid sh*t. - How about you take the knot out of your panties and look at what you wrote yourself, huh?

    Originally posted by cappyx: yeah no sh*t the xa2 has mca it's 600 bucks - Which is just you neatly ignoring the fact that the very first (and now the cheapest, if you can find one) Toshiba A1 had analogue audio outputs.
    You'll also find analogue audio outputs are hardly the preserve of the most expensive regular DVD players either.

    Originally posted by cappyx: not the budget junk you are looking for... sorry. you really expect the world for 149-200 bucks you are on crack. - Before writing off the Venturer as "budget junk" I'll await a review first.
    SoC is inherently inexpensive, you cannot simply claim that because it is less expensive it must be "junk".

    Originally posted by cappyx: i just re-read your comments again and boy i have to say you must be retarded or something. - Well your's are so clearly just the rantings of yet another member of the Blu-ray fanclub desperate to slam this development any way you can.

    Originally posted by cappyx: 1> get your facts right - I did, I quoted you directly and completely.
    Where you were (IMO) unclear I asked you to elaborate.

    Originally posted by cappyx: 2> comment as one unit it's stupid when you break it apart and the drama you want to acieve is the ego of a 3rd grader. - LMAO. You're hilarious.
    You'll find I'm not the one screaming and crying their eyes out wanting to name-call people (IMO extremely insultingly) as "retarded".
    That's absurdly childish written in capital letters right there IMO.

    Originally posted by cappyx: 3>no body with a life really cares about this stupid sh*t so don't act like it's a big deal - ......and there's the final resort.
    Anyone putting contrary views to that of the Blu-ray fanclub must have "no life" and anyways no-one cares.

    Yeah right, of course you don't. :P

    Originally posted by cappyx: they know hd-dvd is always going to be second rate. - But funnily enough the number of poor Blu-ray encodes outnumbers the lesser HD DVD encodes.

    This is just absurd.

    Blu-ray at best matches HD DVD and at worse is noticeably poorer.

    Originally posted by cappyx: they can't play with the big boys so the next best thing is to bash a great format. - You mean some people had the audacity to get completely fed-up with the patently obvious Blu-ray propaganda campaign and started exposing the lies and half-truths for what they were?

    Originally posted by cappyx: i have been in many forums with many poeple who have no regrets on spending 600-1200 for a b) player as long as they are happy with it. - .....and I know plenty who are more than a little ticked off to have paid the (large) additional premium for a Blu-ray player only to realise that not one of the currently available Blu-ray players available now actually meets the Blu-ray spec (due to be mandatory in Oct).
    They will miss out on all those supposedly great 'extras' the high def disc is supposed to bring.

    Not that any of the Blu-ray fanclub here can ever be relied upon to mention any of this kind of thing.

    Originally posted by cappyx: I own a panny b10a and i am thrilled with it. 9 seconds from power on to ready for dvd this is .333 seconds longer than a sd-upconverter i own. my toshiba a2 takes a painstaking annoying 30 seconds to boot. seriously where is there hd-dvd player that boots in 9 seconds - If you honestly imagine a few seconds is worth a couple of hundred $ then all i can say is they saw you coming.
    Bought any Florida swamps lately?

    Originally posted by cappyx: and please don't throw the chineese junk in the mix as it's not even on the market yet. - We'll see soon enough.
    I prefer to wait and see what it actually does than slam it without having any possible way of knowing.

    Originally posted by cappyx: what they don't get is that there will be 2 formats until the next thing comes along. - No.
    What you don't seem to want to accept is that Blu-ray has lost.

    HD DVD might not yet actually 'win' but Blu-ray has lost and cannot now 'win' the a/v market.

    Originally posted by cappyx: hey by the way exactly which hd-dvd discs are encoded in 5.1 uncompressed 48khz 24bit audio? oh that's right hd-dvd is space limited... too bad - Hey btw tell me what Blu-ray's excuse?
    Cos it's a flat out lie to pretend that all Blu-ray movies appear with the best sound possible.

    Maybe its a "space limitation" thing....what with the majority of Blu-ray movies being released on MPEG2 and 25gb single layer Blu-ray discs? :P

    Then maybe you'd like to tell us exactly how many homes have the kind of kit that makes the full specs of HDMI 1.3a of the slightest relevance to the overwhelming majority?

    Oh that's right, almost none.

    Too bad.

    Talk about clutching at straws.

    Still, enjoy you losing format.
    Better luck next time.

    30.8.2007 03:50 #85

  • dblbogey7

    Whoa! Take a deep breath guys and repeat after me:

    "It's just a plastic disc."



    OK the data layer isn't plastic but you get what I mean.

    30.8.2007 04:15 #86

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by dblbogey7: Whoa! Take a deep breath guys and repeat after me:

    "It's just a plastic disc."



    OK the data layer isn't plastic but you get what I mean.     - NP dblbogey7, I get nothing more than mild amusement from this kind of to and fro.

    It's just a little chat afterall.

    30.8.2007 04:49 #87

  • cappyx

    Quote:Originally posted by DC5R: The fact also remains, those who go HD-DVD are still going to lose out on a big portion of the movie industry as well. - Maybe, in the end (but I seriously doubt that).
    Nevertheless it is the Blu-ray side now that has had the largest loss in this.
    It is the Blu-ray format that has the smallest amount of available content and the smallest amount of exclusive available content.

    Before Paramount's announcement a Blu-Ray supporter had access to 62% of all available HiDef titles, while a HD DVD supporter had access to 61%.

    After the Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Film/Nickelodeon announcement the HD DVD supporter still has 61% - that hasn't changed, but the Blu-Ray supporter now has only 55%.

    This does not take imports into account or odd disks distributed in some countries, (HD DVD's Studio Canal releases aren't there in those stats for instance). The figures are based on:

    http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

    http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

    These numbers cover American releases and availability only.

    Neither owner gives up on half of all available titles.

    The HD DVD supporter misses out on 39% while the Blu-Ray owner now misses out on 45%.

    But if you take into account that 60 of those supposedly 'exclusive' Blu-ray titles are in fact available on HD DVD internationally
    (which thanks to HD DVD being region-free everytime you can buy without worry)
    it turns out Blu-ray currently has in fact only 110 or so exclusive titles
    (and that number was true before this move by Viacom/Paramount. MTV Film/Dreamworks/Nickelodeon, as Paramount ramp up their support of HD DVD that gap can only widen).

    Originally posted by DC5R: If it ends up 50-50 support or whatever percentage, nobody wins without having to spend MORE money if they want whatever movie they want in HD. - You can see the figures above, it isn't even 50/50 now - and as more go HD DVD that share will just get larger and larger for HD DVD.

    Originally posted by DC5R: You keep calling people Blu-ray fanclub always, why? - Certain posters are hear to do nothing less than evangelise and 'soft soap' for the Blu-ray format.

    Originally posted by DC5R: I don't belong to any fanclub, but I have BD at home. - That's great, nothing wrong with that.

    But if you were to show up here spreading partial and one-sided 'fanclub' tales and using inaccurate or false info slamming HD DVD then we might have a debate. :D

    I note you've said nothing about cappyx's ridiculous nonsense that "hd-dvd is always going to be second rate".
    Not exactly even-handed in who and what you choose to quibble over, huh?

    Originally posted by DC5R: Do you have either format, curious? - I run an XBox 360 HD DVD add-on from my PC.

    Originally posted by DC5R: Your hate and discontent for Sony makes you a fanclub member as well, though you don't seem to see how hypocritical you are by calling out others. - Do you honestly believe anyone but the most ludicrous 'love' or 'hate' CE corporations?
    Jeez.
    Wake up.

    Originally posted by DC5R: Must you always throw out your same fluff in every thread? - Well if you can explain how commenting on the latest news of the Venturer sku arriving or Viacom/Paramount dumping Blu-ray & going HD DVD exclusive is repeating myself or "fluff" I'm all ears.

    Originally posted by DC5R: You don't like something, point has been made several thousand times already, WTF? - It's about the news and developments, if you don;'t wish to take part in the debate or comment no-one is forcing you to.

    Originally posted by cappyx: hugh are you on crack or something or just dumb? - LMAO.

    Nice respectful opening, not.

    Originally posted by cappyx: what the hell are you talking about. who said any thing about analog outputs doing what with sd upconversion? - Er, you did.

    You mentioned it here......

    Originally posted by cappyx: the word here is "IF" and i'm willing to bet not. most avrs have gone the way of hdmi. to make a unit cheaper the mca outputs are removed and the sd-dvd upconversion often suffers. - So what were you talking about then?

    Cos I was referring to analogue audio outputs and you mentioned "sd up-conversion" and HDMI which is how come I wondered if you had maybe missed my point and was talking about component outputs.

    Originally posted by cappyx: think before you write stupid sh*t. - How about you take the knot out of your panties and look at what you wrote yourself, huh?

    Originally posted by cappyx: yeah no sh*t the xa2 has mca it's 600 bucks - Which is just you neatly ignoring the fact that the very first (and now the cheapest, if you can find one) Toshiba A1 had analogue audio outputs.
    You'll also find analogue audio outputs are hardly the preserve of the most expensive regular DVD players either.

    Originally posted by cappyx: not the budget junk you are looking for... sorry. you really expect the world for 149-200 bucks you are on crack. - Before writing off the Venturer as "budget junk" I'll await a review first.
    SoC is inherently inexpensive, you cannot simply claim that because it is less expensive it must be "junk".

    Originally posted by cappyx: i just re-read your comments again and boy i have to say you must be retarded or something. - Well your's are so clearly just the rantings of yet another member of the Blu-ray fanclub desperate to slam this development any way you can.

    Originally posted by cappyx: 1> get your facts right - I did, I quoted you directly and completely.
    Where you were (IMO) unclear I asked you to elaborate.

    Originally posted by cappyx: 2> comment as one unit it's stupid when you break it apart and the drama you want to acieve is the ego of a 3rd grader. - LMAO. You're hilarious.
    You'll find I'm not the one screaming and crying their eyes out wanting to name-call people (IMO extremely insultingly) as "retarded".
    That's absurdly childish written in capital letters right there IMO.

    Originally posted by cappyx: 3>no body with a life really cares about this stupid sh*t so don't act like it's a big deal - ......and there's the final resort.
    Anyone putting contrary views to that of the Blu-ray fanclub must have "no life" and anyways no-one cares.

    Yeah right, of course you don't. :P

    Originally posted by cappyx: they know hd-dvd is always going to be second rate. - But funnily enough the number of poor Blu-ray encodes outnumbers the lesser HD DVD encodes.

    This is just absurd.

    Blu-ray at best matches HD DVD and at worse is noticeably poorer.

    Originally posted by cappyx: they can't play with the big boys so the next best thing is to bash a great format. - You mean some people had the audacity to get completely fed-up with the patently obvious Blu-ray propaganda campaign and started exposing the lies and half-truths for what they were?

    Originally posted by cappyx: i have been in many forums with many poeple who have no regrets on spending 600-1200 for a b) player as long as they are happy with it. - .....and I know plenty who are more than a little ticked off to have paid the (large) additional premium for a Blu-ray player only to realise that not one of the currently available Blu-ray players available now actually meets the Blu-ray spec (due to be mandatory in Oct).
    They will miss out on all those supposedly great 'extras' the high def disc is supposed to bring.

    Not that any of the Blu-ray fanclub here can ever be relied upon to mention any of this kind of thing.

    Originally posted by cappyx: I own a panny b10a and i am thrilled with it. 9 seconds from power on to ready for dvd this is .333 seconds longer than a sd-upconverter i own. my toshiba a2 takes a painstaking annoying 30 seconds to boot. seriously where is there hd-dvd player that boots in 9 seconds - If you honestly imagine a few seconds is worth a couple of hundred $ then all i can say is they saw you coming.
    Bought any Florida swamps lately?

    Originally posted by cappyx: and please don't throw the chineese junk in the mix as it's not even on the market yet. - We'll see soon enough.
    I prefer to wait and see what it actually does than slam it without having any possible way of knowing.

    Originally posted by cappyx: what they don't get is that there will be 2 formats until the next thing comes along. - No.
    What you don't seem to want to accept is that Blu-ray has lost.

    HD DVD might not yet actually 'win' but Blu-ray has lost and cannot now 'win' the a/v market.

    Originally posted by cappyx: hey by the way exactly which hd-dvd discs are encoded in 5.1 uncompressed 48khz 24bit audio? oh that's right hd-dvd is space limited... too bad - Hey btw tell me what Blu-ray's excuse?
    Cos it's a flat out lie to pretend that all Blu-ray movies appear with the best sound possible.

    Maybe its a "space limitation" thing....what with the majority of Blu-ray movies being released on MPEG2 and 25gb single layer Blu-ray discs? :P

    Then maybe you'd like to tell us exactly how many homes have the kind of kit that makes the full specs of HDMI 1.3a of the slightest relevance to the overwhelming majority?

    Oh that's right, almost none.

    Too bad.

    Talk about clutching at straws.

    Still, enjoy you losing format.
    Better luck next time.    hi baby hughey,

    look i quoted you and now i have drama:)

    here's my original post and i'll break it down for your retarded azz:

    >"the word here is "IF"and i'm willing to bet not
    *you wrote a lot of ifs in your columb ifs are not facts they are dreams you seem to be full of them.

    >most avrs have gone the way of hdmi. to make a unit cheaper the mca outputs are removed
    *this is a atatement yes they are gone on cheaper models it's how you save money dummy

    >and the sd-dvd upconversion often suffers.
    think you are getting that reon chip with that walmart player?

    >now about boot time. my panny b10a b) boots in 9 seconds your toshiba 30 seconds that's much more than a few little seconds that's 1/3 the time of your hd-dvd player and it's very significant. my b10a scrolls menus and functions fluidly and plays any thing it claims to play with no glitches

    >at least b) releases some movies in 5.1 uncompressed and the list is actually huge.
    who needs hdmi 1.3 to listen to the 5.1 uncompressed audio? you only need that if you bitstream it. you can simply enjoy it via sending the audio via hdmi lpcm which end result is exactly the same or on a older avr using the multi channel audio outputs...... oh wait that's right THE CHEAP HD-DVD PLAYERS WON'T HAVE THOSE SO LOOKS LIKE YOUR SCREWED AGAIN WITH HD-DVD EL-CHEAPO KMART SPECIAL.ARRRRRRRGH. every b) player currently on the market includes the mca as they want you to enjoy this audio that hd-dvd does not offer.
    oh yeah the list of titles in 5.1 uncompressed is pretty large where hd-dvd is none.

    30.8.2007 08:15 #88

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by dblbogey7: Whoa! Take a deep breath guys and repeat after me:

    "It's just a plastic disc."



    OK the data layer isn't plastic but you get what I mean.    na let him write maybe a light will go off and he will get it. it's entertaining because now his quote is almost a whole page:)

    30.8.2007 08:26 #89

  • hughjars

    Oh I see, so your argument is that the entry level HD DVD player might not have some features found on Blu-ray players costing many many times it's price?

    Wow, what an insightful line to take.

    You guys just get ever more amusing.

    30.8.2007 08:27 #90

  • ronnybuck

    Wow, maybe a movie in the making here called DVD-Wars. They will still put out everything in the standard DVD format and that is all I think most care about. If you care about whether and actor has a pimple on his dimple on is butt then you may care about more sophisticated stuff. I really enjoyed a football game the other day in HDTV and did not care who won and cannot at this time remember who played. You can buy a 2 gig USB stick at Radio Shack for $19.95 today. Now if they can do that it may not be long there will be movies on media with no moving parts. Maybe that is what we need to wait for and forget all this Rhetoric DVD bull. It's going to be sooner than you think.

    30.8.2007 08:40 #91

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by hughjars: Oh I see, so your argument is that the entry level HD DVD player might not have some features found on Blu-ray players costing many many times it's price?

    Wow, what an insightful line to take.

    You guys just get ever more amusing.    nope my argument is that comparable models of hd-dvd and b) players cost the same. b) simply has not released a cheap scaled down b) player yet hd-dvd went right to it.

    by the way i own both formats and am completly hdmi1.3a hd compliant and simply prefer the b) format over hd-dvd. since i do actually own both i think i can speak with a bit more experience don't you?

    30.8.2007 08:41 #92

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by cappyx: nope my argument is that comparable models of hd-dvd and b) players cost the same. b) simply has not released a cheap scaled down b) player yet hd-dvd went right to it. - That's one way to excuse Blu-ray charging so much more than HD DVD.

    HD DVD has a range of products.

    Blu-ray is basically PS3.....and none of their products now available comply with 'profile 1.1' - nevermind 'profile 2.0.

    The sole and supposedly confirmed exceptions regarding 'profile 1.1' are the $2000 Denon (which has been delayed until Q2, next spring or summer) and we were told the Samsung BDP5000 dual format player (and now there are doubts over that meeting the spec).

    (Not that any of the BD fanclub ever care to admit this.)

    Originally posted by cappyx: by the way i own both formats and am completly hdmi1.3a hd compliant and simply prefer the b) format over hd-dvd. since i do actually own both i think i can speak with a bit more experience don't you? - Oh right, so, according to you, the only people allowed to make comparisons are those people that have both, huh?

    Oh well there goes centuries of writing and information sharing.

    (Assuming you are telling the truth in the first place of course.....and we all know how we can believe everything we read on the net, huh? :P )

    Wise up, go try that nonsense on someone else.

    I know several people on the avforums having a good laugh at people doing blind tests on the audio formats.
    A large part of it is people believing what thet want to believe.....and so much is heavily dependent on their kit and it's calibration.

    Still coming from the person who imagines quoting is "dramatic" ......!?

    (btw rather than quote as a pointless huge chunk you might try breaking it up so that you're addressing each point that has been made.
    That's why I do it that way, I think it's only common courtesy to answer each point raised and so sometimes I'll quote.
    To imagine it's done for "drama" - and I've no idea how that is meant to even happen - is, IMO, just absurd.)

    30.8.2007 08:54 #93

  • cappyx

    quote] - Oh right, so, according to you, the only people allowed to make comparisons are those people that have both, huh?

    yes that is correct i own both so i can make an "EDUCATED" and "EXPERIENCED" comment pertaining to each. you just babble a bunch of irrelevant bullsh*t from an hd-dvd fan boys aspect. only those who own both formats and use them on a day to day basis can give an educated comment the rest, like you can only assume.

    now you're going to use a 2000 denon player to drive your point home now youre really reaching? hey did you notice none of the high dollar marketers like denon, yamaha, onkyo, etc are not making anything hd-dvd. hybrid players are a waste of time. it cost less to buy a nice b) player and the hd-dvd player can be had cheap. with hybrid if one breaks they all break also from the lg model the hd-dvd side of that unit is terrible my cheap toshiba does a far better job coupled with the panny at 300 less than the lg.

    who cares about bd1.1 i am happy with what i have even at bd1.0 i still prefer my panny any day. did you notice that word "prefer" it means i actualy use both and have a user preference.

    wow how's that pirates of the carribean on hd-dvd? oooops you can't play disney hd-dvd because there are none. guess the kids come last with hd-dvd how selfish is one to choose format over thier children?

    best of luck with your upcomming chineese disc spinner.

    30.8.2007 09:50 #94

  • cappyx

    Quote:(btw rather than quote as a pointless huge chunk you might try breaking it up so that you're addressing each point that has been made.
    That's why I do it that way, I think it's only common courtesy to answer each point raised and so sometimes I'll quote.
    To imagine it's done for "drama" - and I've no idea how that is meant to even happen - is, IMO, just absurd.)    i've got better things to do with my time i suggest you find other things as well. it's a forum not a litterary contest.. who cares?

    30.8.2007 10:00 #95

  • hughjars

    Originally posted by cappyx: yes that is correct i own both so i can make an "EDUCATED" and "EXPERIENCED" comment pertaining to each. - I never said otherwise.

    But you just can't help acting as if your own experience is the only valid one out there.

    Sadly for you there are plenty of professional reviewers and other users prepared to give a far more accurate and balanced account of each format.

    Originally posted by cappyx: you just babble a bunch of irrelevant bullsh*t from an hd-dvd fan boys aspect. - No.
    Telling the truth about the less flattering aspects of Blu-ray is not being a "fanboy".
    Neither is telling the truth about what the state of play is with HD DVD.

    Originally posted by cappyx: only those who own both formats and use them on a day to day basis can give an educated comment the rest, like you can only assume. - Don't be absurd.

    Jeez I'd love to see how this approach/attitude works with buying a car then!

    Don't be ridiculous we have hundreds of years of written shared experience so as we aren't left with such a ludicrous position with our purchases.
    Wake up.

    Originally posted by cappyx: now you're going to use a 2000 denon player to drive your point home now youre really reaching? hey did you notice none of the high dollar marketers like denon, yamaha, onkyo, etc are not making anything hd-dvd. - Er Onkyo are making an HD DVD player actually.

    ....and the point about the $2000 Denon is correct, it has been delayed until Q2 of next year.

    It also remains to be seen if the German report of a Denon HD DVD player in development right now is true.

    Originally posted by cappyx: who cares about bd1.1 - Lots of people who think they are getting a fully spec'd machine with all the features Blu-ray claim to offer are going to be very disappointed.

    Originally posted by cappyx: wow how's that pirates of the carribean on hd-dvd? oooops you can't play disney hd-dvd because there are none. - POTC 3 was garbage.
    Just like a lot of the movies offered by Sony & Fox are, generally speaking, adolescent rubbish.

    But if you're trying to bait over the exclusive content then tough luck, HD DVD now offers both the most content and the most exclusive content.
    HD DVD also has the largest potential catalogue too.

    Originally posted by cappyx: i've got better things to do with my time - Yeah of course, plainly you do. *rolls eyes* :P

    30.8.2007 10:25 #96

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by hughjars: Originally posted by cappyx: yes that is correct i own both so i can make an "EDUCATED" and "EXPERIENCED" comment pertaining to each. - I never said otherwise.

    But you just can't help acting as if your own experience is the only valid one out there.

    Sadly for you there are plenty of professional reviewers and other users prepared to give a far more accurate and balanced account of each format.

    Originally posted by cappyx: you just babble a bunch of irrelevant bullsh*t from an hd-dvd fan boys aspect. - No.
    Telling the truth about the less flattering aspects of Blu-ray is not being a "fanboy".
    Neither is telling the truth about what the state of play is with HD DVD.

    Originally posted by cappyx: only those who own both formats and use them on a day to day basis can give an educated comment the rest, like you can only assume. - Don't be absurd.

    Jeez I'd love to see how this approach/attitude works with buying a car then!

    Don't be ridiculous we have hundreds of years of written shared experience so as we aren't left with such a ludicrous position with our purchases.
    Wake up.

    Originally posted by cappyx: now you're going to use a 2000 denon player to drive your point home now youre really reaching? hey did you notice none of the high dollar marketers like denon, yamaha, onkyo, etc are not making anything hd-dvd. - Er Onkyo are making an HD DVD player actually.

    ....and the point about the $2000 Denon is correct, it has been delayed until Q2 of next year.

    It also remains to be seen if the German report of a Denon HD DVD player in development right now is true.

    Originally posted by cappyx: who cares about bd1.1 - Lots of people who think they are getting a fully spec'd machine with all the features Blu-ray claim to offer are going to be very disappointed.

    Originally posted by cappyx: wow how's that pirates of the carribean on hd-dvd? oooops you can't play disney hd-dvd because there are none. - POTC 3 was garbage.
    Just like a lot of the movies offered by Sony & Fox are, generally speaking, adolescent rubbish.

    But if you're trying to bait over the exclusive content then tough luck, HD DVD now offers both the most content and the most exclusive content.
    HD DVD also has the largest potential catalogue too.

    Originally posted by cappyx: i've got better things to do with my time - Yeah of course, plainly you do. *rolls eyes* :P    sadly enough you need to get a life.

    best of luck with that i guess b) and sony will crumble now because you say so my players are quaking in thier racks.

    your'e just so pig headed and stupid that i'm not going to bother replying to you any longer. really you're about as bright as a burnt out light bulb i have to wonder how many poeple regret listening to your pompus bullsh*t after it's too late.

    by the way exactly what hd equipment player, tv, avr etc do you own?

    i just read a little more of your post either it's an act or you're just really a weirdo. i'm leaning towards weirdo, maybe nerdy weirdo like herdy gerdy man weirdo???

    30.8.2007 20:53 #97

  • DXR88

    We can do without the flamming thx.


    Quote:Every time you Flame Somebody you wast Forum space for a more civiliezed conversation.

    31.8.2007 08:51 #98

  • morguex

    @crappyx
    OMG a whole 30 seconds, By the time you insert the dvd, get your ass comfortable in your chair, guess what? 30 seconds has passed.
    God the petty things some people whine about.
    You can love you blu-ray for now, but like others have said, if you think paying $300-$500 more to save 15-20 seconds, well no comment.
    That speaks for itself.

    13.9.2007 06:41 #99

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: @crappyx
    OMG a whole 30 seconds, By the time you insert the dvd, get your ass comfortable in your chair, guess what? 30 seconds has passed.
    God the petty things some people whine about.
    You can love you blu-ray for now, but like others have said, if you think paying $300-$500 more to save 15-20 seconds, well no comment.
    That speaks for itself.    morguex edited by ddp:
    look edited by ddp the difference between 30 seconds and 9 seconds is supperior technology not your sofa. what a damn edited by ddp. do you get it now?
    further more do you really think 21 seconds is why people pay 300-500 more for a b) player. either get off your cheap azz and buy one or shut the edited by ddp. incase you didn't notice the reason b) is not cheap is they have not issued a scaled down cheap budget player like toshiba has. toshibas real player for the big boys is 700 bucks. you can keep playing with your little toys.

    and for your info, hd fan boy, i own both formats.

    13.9.2007 08:43 #100

  • morguex

    Thats quite the attitude you got there, I'm not gonna get personal with you. I'll let the moderators take care of that.
    Who said I owned a HD-DvD player?
    I'm the asshole?
    Who just spewed a bunch of crap that was completely unnecessary.
    And let me make one thing quite clear to you, I have been in audio/video equipment for over 20 years now, I have very good quality equipment. So save your "cheap" and "bigboys" comment for someone else.
    How you got junior member status is beyond on me if this is how you conduct yourself, but with any luck there will be the word "banned" under your name.
    "morgueer" Did you come up with that all by yourself?
    Have a nice day and life :-)

    13.9.2007 09:15 #101

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: Thats quite the attitude you got there, I'm not gonna get personal with you. I'll let the moderators take care of that.
    Who said I owned a HD-DvD player?
    I'm the asshole?
    Who just spewed a bunch of crap that was completely unnecessary.
    And let me make one thing quite clear to you, I have been in audio/video equipment for over 20 years now, I have very good quality equipment. So save your "cheap" and "bigboys" comment for someone else.
    How you got junior member status is beyond on me if this is how you conduct yourself, but with any luck there will be the word "banned" under your name.

    "morgueer" Did you come up with that all by yourself?
    Have a nice day and life :-)    yes you are as a matter of fact read your first post and if you can't take it don't dish it out.
    i'll send it to the moderators as well.

    did you come up with crappy all alone maybe we get banned under your name as well but the difference is you will care. big deal 20 years i have been in av for 35 years and really if you don't own any format cease criticising something you don't use on a daily basis such as you can't have a personal opinion of such equipment. i don't know where you get off slinging insults around and then trying to play some above it all well manered person afterwards but maybe you have issues. in any case who cares enjoy your life as well..
    ps you did get personal couldn't resist could ya..

    13.9.2007 09:39 #102

  • morguex

    "crappy" was an honest mistake. I just misread your name,For that I do apologize, and if your took my comments as personal. They were not meant to be that way.
    They were meant as a joke.
    But I really don't think it was necessary to call me "morqueer" and "azzhole".
    And sure I would care to a point, Because I do like afterdawn, I enjoy reading the articles and forums.
    But anyway I think this has gone too far as it is.

    13.9.2007 11:08 #103

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: "crappy" was an honest mistake. I just misread your name,For that I do apologize, and if your took my comments as personal. They were not meant to be that way.
    They were meant as a joke.
    But I really don't think it was necessary to call me "morqueer" and "azzhole".
    And sure I would care to a point, Because I do like afterdawn, I enjoy reading the articles and forums.
    But anyway I think this has gone too far as it is.    opology accepted and i ,as well, will apologize to you.

    13.9.2007 22:00 #104

  • cappyx

    although i enjoy both formats i have always wondered about hd-dvd software cost. while b) is a whole new process that uses all new factory equipment to manufacture hd-dvd is manufactured using the same equipment that is used for sd-dvd. my question then is

    ?why does hd-dvd software cost the same as b)? form what i read it should be cheaper.

    13.9.2007 22:03 #105

  • ronnybuck

    Why worry about all the new DVD players. With Verizon on the move providing the ultimate of Phone, Internet and now HD Digital TV we will be able to watch first run movies at home. If you have to go to the restroom you don't have to disturb others what happened when you get back. Just use the Pause button. I am sure it will be a lot cheaper this way, saving gas, going out in the weather and the expensive stale popcorn. Instead we can eat steak or whatever is desired while watching. To get the full advantage of this we will need to spend about $5000 for a HD TV and Sound system and pay about $100 a month for the verizon connection. Let's hope they do not charge too much for the movie. Oh, some idiot digging with a back hoe could end it all.

    14.9.2007 06:16 #106

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by ronnybuck: Why worry about all the new DVD players. With Verizon on the move providing the ultimate of Phone, Internet and now HD Digital TV we will be able to watch first run movies at home. If you have to go to the restroom you don't have to disturb others what happened when you get back. Just use the Pause button. I am sure it will be a lot cheaper this way, saving gas, going out in the weather and the expensive stale popcorn. Instead we can eat steak or whatever is desired while watching. To get the full advantage of this we will need to spend about $5000 for a HD TV and Sound system and pay about $100 a month for the verizon connection. Let's hope they do not charge too much for the movie. Oh, some idiot digging with a back hoe could end it all.i sort of already have this with dish network a ppv hd channel or two. the problem is the audio is no where near b) or hd-dvd. b) offers losseless 5.1 uncompressed audio on a good number of thier dvds running up to 48khz/24bit dish networks audio is no where near this i believe at best the 1.5mb dd5.1 audio is all.

    14.9.2007 08:14 #107

  • morguex

    @cappyx
    Apology accepted and no hard feelings.
    Now I have a question for you, I am thinking of buying a Hi-def player, (blu-ray or HD), just not sure which one to buy.
    Wanna keep the price @ around $800-1000, I've look at a few brands.(wanna kinda stay away from box store stuff)
    Since you have over 35 yr's experience with A/V equipment, what do you recommend.
    I was looking at the intergra HD-DvD (DHS-8.8) player on the net, As I own all integra products now, so I am kinda leaning toward this one.
    And it falls in my price range.

    14.9.2007 08:27 #108

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: @cappyx
    Apology accepted and no hard feelings.
    Now I have a question for you, I am thinking of buying a Hi-def player, (blu-ray or HD), just not sure which one to buy.
    Wanna keep the price @ around $800-1000, I've look at a few brands.(wanna kinda stay away from box store stuff)
    Since you have over 35 yr's experience with A/V equipment, what do you recommend.
    I was looking at the intergra HD-DvD (DHS-8.8) player on the net, As I own all integra products now, so I am kinda leaning toward this one.
    And it falls in my price range.    it has always been my experience that "like components play nice together, better". honestly right now the formats are at war. my personal beliefe is that we are going to have 2 formats this time until there is something completly new. however depending on what your connection options are (multi channel or hdmi). as far as b) right now in my opinion the most solid stand alone unit on the market is the panasonic b10a on sale this week for 540 at cc. however take note that the new bd1.1 rev initiates 10/31/07 but what this means is any new manufactured players released after this date must meet 1.1 however all older models are still 1.0. if you have any interest in bd1.1 i'd wait at this point as all of the current units will most likely not be fw upgradeable to 1.1 the only exception to this may be the ps3 (honestly if you can deal with the bit of fan noise my first recomendation for a b) player is a ps3 simply the out of box value is amazing it's just so much more than a simple b) player) as far as hd-dvd if i were to get a quality unit i think the integra to match everything is my first choice followed by the toshiba xa2. personally i simply bought the a2 as it is a decent quality unit at 238 on amazon. i went this choice because i have full hdmi connectivity (the a2 and 20 do not have mca connectivity) and since i do not really know who will win, lose or draw on this format war i'd rather eat 238 bucks compared to 700 for the toshiba:)
    *b)
    >stay far away from the sony s300 it's a real piece of junk, i tried one and it was terrible lock ups, freezes, skips and still a 30 second boot time.
    >panny b10a: plays everything i throw at it that is compatible without a hitch. 9 second boot time 7.1 multi channel analogs for those who want them, hdmi connectivity runs very whisper quiet and has panny's known quality and reliability very sought after unit.
    >ps3: b) player, upscaler, game console, sacd player, network connectivity, wifi out of box, accessable and standard sata hdd user replaceable, blu tooth controler and b) remote, however no multi channel analog, at times the fan can get a bit noisy for some people(it never bothers me). personally i believe i got one heck of a bargain at 599 for the 80g unit for everything it does however in my ht room i use the panny as i already owned it prior to the ps3. if i had full hdmi connectivity when i originally bought my b) player i would have went ps3 instead of changing out my panny i simply found a onkyo dv-sp502 sacd player on amazon clearenced at 99 dollars and just add it to the system.
    >the problem most people have with the ps3 is they can't get by that "see it as a game console" thing and for what it is a "multi media center" i also do like no disk drawr just feed the player and it sucks in the dvd and starts up. i have the ps3 in my office and use it every day for something.

    food for thought:
    since you can get the hd-dvd at a great price on amazon and if you have hdmi connectivity perhaps consider the a2/1080i or a20/1080p and a b) player. the advantage here is you get both formats for about 800 dollars vs being stuck with one or the other. thing is the audio is a million times better with the new formats and once you see the picture and hear the difference in audio you really start wanting that other format.

    hope this helps

    ps if you need cables at a great price try this : monoprice.com

    14.9.2007 09:00 #109

  • morguex

    Thanks for the advice cappyx, I did see the Toshiba hd-a2 on sale for 399.00 at futureshop and they also had the ps3 for 499.00.
    I was gonna ask about the ps3 for a blu-ray player, bought thought I might get laughed at. Thinking about it again, I guess 1000.00 or so for a HD-DvD player is high considering that we have no idea who's gonna win this so called format war. It would suck to spend a grand on it and then have blu-ray win. AT least with your idea I would have both and also a pretty nice game console also.
    I do have a lcd tv with hdmi inputs, so there's no problem there.
    As for a reciever with hdmi(for the audio), I'll wait awhile for that.
    Peace

    14.9.2007 11:47 #110

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: Thanks for the advice cappyx, I did see the Toshiba hd-a2 on sale for 399.00 at futureshop and they also had the ps3 for 499.00.
    I was gonna ask about the ps3 for a blu-ray player, bought thought I might get laughed at. Thinking about it again, I guess 1000.00 or so for a HD-DvD player is high considering that we have no idea who's gonna win this so called format war. It would suck to spend a grand on it and then have blu-ray win. AT least with your idea I would have both and also a pretty nice game console also.
    I do have a lcd tv with hdmi inputs, so there's no problem there.
    As for a reciever with hdmi(for the audio), I'll wait awhile for that.


    Peace
    Morguex,
    The toshiba a20 is 308 at amazon. the problem with not having hdmi on your audio equipment is you will not be able to enjoy the upper end audio formats of either as the a20 and ps3 are hdmi only. the only way is with the xa2 toshiba (557 at amazon) or panny b10a (539 at cc) assuming you have the multi channel analog inputs. with the a20 or ps3 and no hdmi for your audio you would miss out on dolby true-hd, dts-hd-master, 5.1 uncompressed pcm which is phenominal. you could still use the optical cable but you will be limited to dd5.1 and dts at 1.5m no where near the other audio formats. what you could do, if you are running independant amps is check out the onkyo 805 and use it as a pre-amp. it switches 3 hdmi devices (more if you buy another switch) and can pass 7.1 preamp to your system and act as the centerpiece for your system. it will breath new life and allow you to keep using your amps. integra will be comming out with thier own pre-amp fairly soon however the onkyo 805 has raving reviews and for the money this avr can't be beat. cc will ocasionaly run a saturday sale on these for 899. any way feel free to keep in contact to share information. check the onkyo 805 out at cc see what you think.

    bam! it just hit me while sitting here. you have a lcd tv you should definetly go ps3. you have no worries of burn in and you can get the best of all worlds and one heck of a gamming system.

    best wishes, cappy

    14.9.2007 22:26 #111

  • cappyx

    Morguex,

    that onkyo 805 i was telling you about in the last post is 809 dollars this week at amazon and free shipping. it is a really good price for this avr and as i had stated you could use this as a preamp and get your hdmi connectivity with it.

    i just got the onlyo sacd player i ordered from amazon, hooked it up and played Pink Floyd Dark Side Of The Moon in 5.1 pcm sacd and i have never heard this cd sound anything like this. the 5.1 audio is really impressive. i patched it in using the mca input and the whole room is filled with music. my wife came home and asked why one of the pictures was crooked:)

    15.9.2007 11:10 #112

  • morguex

    @cappyx
    I checked out the onkyo 805 on the net, Thats a very nice machine, Even looks pretty.
    What about the Integra DTR-5.8A, seems very similar to the onkyo unit, only thing is it dosen't do upconversion and only 2 HDMI inputs, but it seems like a nice machine also.
    One more question, Can you use a hdmi 1.2 ouput with a hdmi 1.3a input?
    lol@ crooked picture, trust me my neighbours don;t like me either sometimes, but hey when I load up Eagles DvD live In Melbourne in DTS(god I hope they release this in dts-hd), I Like to hear it loud.
    Peace

    15.9.2007 12:39 #113

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: @cappyx
    I checked out the onkyo 805 on the net, Thats a very nice machine, Even looks pretty.
    What about the Integra DTR-5.8A, seems very similar to the onkyo unit, only thing is it dosen't do upconversion and only 2 HDMI inputs, but it seems like a nice machine also.
    One more question, Can you use a hdmi 1.2 ouput with a hdmi 1.3a input?
    lol@ crooked picture, trust me my neighbours don;t like me either sometimes, but hey when I load up Eagles DvD live In Melbourne in DTS(god I hope they release this in dts-hd), I Like to hear it loud.
    Peace    lol my neighbor has shown up at my door in his pajamas to ask me to please lower the bass:)
    i personally own the 805 it is one heck of a avr and at the money it really can't be beat. the thing weighs 50 lbs and it is actually incredible with no outboard amps. hdmi 1.3a is backwards compatible to all including 1.0 as well. you want 1.3a as all the next gen stuff will need 1.3a to have full use of it.
    believe me when i tell you at 809, free shipping and no taxums this 805 is a steal. i know you like integra however the integra will not be 809 dollars and this avr really gives you 150%. if i were in your spot now i'd put the hd-dvd and b) on hold and get the 805 as it will add the hdmi connectivity you need for the next gen of equipment comnming. and the 805 is 1.3a!!! the remote that comes with the 805 is the best remote i have ever had it can be code programed as well as learn and it is 100% backlit. I really can't say enough about what a great machine this 805 is what i can say is the new yammy that is releasing this fall that is comprable is 1700 compared to 809. i simply don't know how onkyo can make this avr at this cost however every forum about this avr is raving about what a great reciever, pre-amp, and 3 hdmi 1.3a inputs. it also has 3 macro buttons that are very nice. you will not need a harmony with this unit!

    best regards, cappy

    15.9.2007 15:21 #114

  • morguex

    @cappyx
    I checked out a few more reviews on the onkyo 805, This thing is amazing. After reading these reviews, I gotta hear Dolby hd and dts-hd, I checked some pricing, The cheapest I can find it for in canada is 1299.00,I tried a few American online retailers, but I can't find one who ships to canada.
    If I could find one who will ship to canada, it will still be cheaper even with exchage rate and shipping.

    15.9.2007 17:47 #115

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: @cappyx
    I checked out a few more reviews on the onkyo 805, This thing is amazing. After reading these reviews, I gotta hear Dolby hd and dts-hd, I checked some pricing, The cheapest I can find it for in canada is 1299.00,I tried a few American online retailers, but I can't find one who ships to canada.
    If I could find one who will ship to canada, it will still be cheaper even with exchage rate and shipping.    honestly i can not say enough good things about this avr. i don't know how onkyo is selling it at this price but it is truely an amazing reciever. i love the thing i have made it the centerpiece of my av system. functionality, clarity and audio realism is all in this unit. i just can't believe for the money that it is a new generation machine and it just keeps performing. i have a panny plasma and this thing loves pannys it has a lyp-sync function which seems to be performing with my plasma to keep hd programing in correct sync with the audio. I have to say i have really never been this impressed with a avr at this price level. if you have an obtainable way to get this avr i do really recomend it. i used it last night to play the floyd sacd and it was incredible i just was blown away at the audio i was getting from this avr and a infinity ps212 sub at the cost factor. by the way the infinity ps212 sub can be had for 288 from amazon market place not bad for a sub that sells for 479 elsewhere. at 809 i was thinking of buying one of these 805's for my ps3 in my office. right now i have all of my office av tied into my creative extigy into a klipsch pro5.1 however it does not accept hdmi and i would like to have the sacd functionality of my ps3 unlocked in my office as well.

    i know that it is more costley to get items in canada however i still recomend you first get the 805 to ad the hdmi functionality to your integras and then later worry about hd-dvd and b).

    trust me when i say the audio formats available in hd-dvd and b) just bury the old sd-dvd audio formats. once you hear them you will not ever want to go back.

    best wishes, cappy

    15.9.2007 18:48 #116

  • morguex

    @cappy
    I found a tx-sr705 for 600.00 us on e-bay.
    It seem very similar to the 805.
    Whats you opinion on the 705?
    Thanks

    16.9.2007 14:04 #117

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: @cappy
    I found a tx-sr705 for 600.00 us on e-bay.
    It seem very similar to the 805.
    Whats you opinion on the 705?
    Thanks    i hear good things about the 705 a lot of people just get this one for pre-amp only. i personaly prefer the 805 it's got a lot more bang for not much more money. i know it's a bit tough after you told me the canada price is 1299 i almost fainted. actualy the retail price in the states in the main stores is 1199 unless on sale. some of the differences to note:

    >705= has lesser dacs the/ 805 uses burr-brown
    >705 thd=.08 /the 805 thd is .05
    >705= thx select cert/ 805= thx ultra 2 cert
    >705= sn=100db/ 805=110db

    personaly even if you are only going to use the pre-amp section i would wait and shoot for the 805. how about yahoo or googiling the 805 and trying to find an e-tailer that will ship to canada? i looked at abt however they only ship to the 48 states.

    let me know what you decide,
    best wishes, cappy

    16.9.2007 19:44 #118

  • morguex

    Hey Cappyx, How are you?
    Well I think I just struck gold, I found a brand new tx-sr805 on ebay for $733.00. I'm going to bid on this unit for sure.
    Total with tax and shipping is approx. $910.00.
    Much better than any price I can find in canada.
    Wish me luck.

    Talk to you later


    http://www.danasoft.com/sig/MorguexsPlace.jpg

    28.9.2007 18:58 #119

  • morguex

    P.s.
    I,ve decided to get a hd-dvd for now and then pick up a ps3 for blu-ray.
    Can't wait to watch and hear Batman Begins in HD-DVD :-)
    I have no doubt it will be a treat for the eyes and ears.

    Thanks for all your help



    http://www.danasoft.com/sig/MorguexsPlace.jpg

    28.9.2007 19:02 #120

  • cappyx

    Originally posted by morguex: P.s.
    I,ve decided to get a hd-dvd for now and then pick up a ps3 for blu-ray.
    Can't wait to watch and hear Batman Begins in HD-DVD :-)
    I have no doubt it will be a treat for the eyes and ears.

    Thanks for all your help    no problem and best of luck on that auction let me know how it works out for you.

    the ps3 will include this feature however for my main ht room i had to buy an external sacd player and i love the thing! the 805 really can do wonders with the mca input and sacd. i have been plucking titles new and used like genesis duke, abacab, trick of the tail, pink floyd dsotm is still my favorite though. my favorites are the hybrid discs as they normaly have playable tracks for all devices. looks like the 60gb ps3 is dissapearing from the stores the 80gb has replaced it at the old 599 shelf price. still it's a great deal. when you buy your ps3 also pick up the optional blu-tooth remote for it.
    any way best of luck on your bid

    28.9.2007 22:50 #121

  • morguex

    Hi Cappy
    I got a quick question and I need a simple straight foward answer.(all this reading has got me kinda confused)
    I've been doing alot of reading about Dobly digital HD and Dolby digital Plus, Now I assume Dolby Digital hd is better than Dolby digital plus. The reason I ask is because most HD-DvD's seem to have Dolby Digital plus as there main audio encoding. Is there a big diffrence between regular Dolby digital and Dolby Digital plus?
    Thanks
    P.S. I did'nt bother with the TX-sr805 on ebay, shipping was gonna be almost 400.00(brokage fees, taxes and so on, damm ups) I'll hold off til the holiday season, I'm sure it'll be on sale by then.

    4.10.2007 18:30 #122

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