AfterDawn: News

Torrentspy must preserve data from 'RAM'

Even though we already reported recently that Torretspy blocked users from the United States to keep logs it is being forced to hand over to the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) as empty as possible, there is an extra detail to this case that is very interesting. As per Torrentspy's privacy policy, it never logged tracking information on its users.

Torrentspy had fought the MPAA's requests to force Torrenyspy to log user activity and provide it to the trade group, arguing that privacy laws in the Netherlands (where the servers are located) prevented it from both maintaining and disclosing logs. The site also argued that log data wasn't available since it is only exists in RAM for a period of time and is never permanently stored.



The magistrate judge didn't agree with the argument and now neither did Judge Florence-Marie Cooper. She disagreed that data in the RAM is not "stored", saying the storage of data in RAM, even as temporary, makes it electronically stored information governed by federal discovery rules. She also dismissed concerns that the ruling could have a significant impact as far as record-keeping obligations.

"The Court notes that this decision does not impose an additional burden on any website operator or party outside of this case," reads the order. "It simply requires that the defendants in this case, as part of this litigation... begin preserving and subsequently produce a particular subset of the data in RAM under Defendants' control." Since Torrentspy doesn't log, it doesn't really affect this case, but the example has been set for data stored temporarily in RAM

Source:
Ars Technica

Written by: James Delahunty @ 28 Aug 2007 21:36

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• 20 comments

• webe123

  Ever since private torrent sites have been targeted by the FBI, I do not think that modern sites even store any info they can even use temporarily.
  
  So SCREW 'EM!

  28.8.2007 22:23 #1

• thekingo7

  This is the same problem thats been going on since the mid 80s, judges and politicians passing laws and ruling on technology they don't understand.

  29.8.2007 04:18 #2

• ZippyDSM

  *confused*
  Isn't ram info mostly dump and garbled caching data?

  29.8.2007 05:55 #3

• webe123

  Originally posted by ZIppyDSM: *confused*
  Isn't ram info mostly dump and garbled caching data?Yes, that is why I think it would be useless to them anyway.

  29.8.2007 06:17 #4

• bomber991

  Originally posted by thekingo7: This is the same problem thats been going on since the mid 80s, judges and politicians passing laws and ruling on technology they don't understand.Yep, pretty much. Oh well, just wait another 30 years for 20 year olds like me to become 50, and then we'll be the ones passing the laws.

  29.8.2007 08:38 #5

• ZippyDSM

  A friend told me that this means nothing, they cant get the ram data because they no longer take US IPs and the judge has no authority to take data from outside the US.
  
  thoughts?

  29.8.2007 08:44 #6

• plutonash

  huh? once the computer or the ram is removed for inspection the memory is wiped clean. Nothing is bringing it back

  29.8.2007 09:09 #7

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by plutonash: huh? once the computer or the ram is removed for inspection the memory is wiped clean. Nothing is bringing it backthere are programs that can take dump data from ramm.

  29.8.2007 09:23 #8

• mitchls

  Quote:Originally posted by plutonash: huh? once the computer or the ram is removed for inspection the memory is wiped clean. Nothing is bringing it backthere are programs that can take dump data from ramm.Only while the system is running plus the program would have to be running constantly logging everything (which is what Torrentspy don't do) as RAM memory is volatile and anything can be overwritten at any time.
  
  the USA laws are powerless to demand any information from the way Torrentspy operate and they don't like it thats all.
  
  and it sounds like the Judge need to break-out PCs For Dummies- Law Edition.

  29.8.2007 09:53 #9

• ZippyDSM

  plutonash
  Did you read the whole thing?
  
  
  It sounds like she made the point that the "data" is there,however since its closed to normal US users they can't do anything about it.
  
  Quote:The magistrate judge didn't buy that argument, and in her opinion reaffirming the magistrate's order, neither did Judge Florence-Marie Cooper. Judge Cooper took issue with TorrentSpy's argument that data in RAM is not "stored." She noted RAM's function as primary storage and that the storage of data in RAM—even if not permanently archived—makes it electronically stored information governed by federal discovery rules.
  
  Judge Cooper also noted the language of the discovery rule governing electronically stored information, which states that the rule is "expansive" and includes "any type of information that is stored electronically." She also dismissed concerns that the ruling would have a significant impact as far as record-keeping obligations. "The Court notes that this decision does not impose an additional burden on any website operator or party outside of this case," reads the order. "It simply requires that the defendants in this case, as part of this litigation... begin preserving and subsequently produce a particular subset of the data in RAM under Defendants' control."
  
  Since TorrentSpy is no longer doing business in the US, the judge's ruling will have little real impact on this case. It could, however, have far-reaching ramifications beyond this case. Under this interpretation, any data stored in RAM could be subject to a subpoena, as at a basic level it is a "medium from which information can be obtained" just like a hard drive.
  
  

  29.8.2007 10:02 #10

• armorthis

  I don't see how the United States could even have the right to obtain things like servers from outside of their own country.
  
  That, AND, torrent websites don't have anything illegal on their hard drives, The seeders are the people who have the illegal content, websites just provide a link to it.

  29.8.2007 12:41 #11

• Jlhfit

  Originally posted by armorthis: I don't see how the United States could even have the right to obtain things like servers from outside of their own country.
  
  That, AND, torrent websites don't have anything illegal on their hard drives, The seeders are the people who have the illegal content, websites just provide a link to it.They can Try all day but in the end it does even matter...lol... I guess the judge is just as ignorant as the MPAA themselves... Even if they have logged users and/or IPS.. do they not realize that most IP's change and are reassigned to others these are called "Dynamic IPS"... I have recieved several letters telling me that "blah blah blah ...please stop downloading blah blah blah." from my ISP.Its just a cover to cover their own ass... It works like this...
  MPAA pays of judges,the offender appeals, the MPAA demands, the offender says "i dont have logs" the judge say.. "uhhhh yeah you do cause my computer at home keeps all my kiddie porn".. The "offending site" says "what an idiot". The MPAA crys some more... The judges wacks off some more.. The Site says "f*ck you, I dont own any "files", we just host to allow users to share" The ISP's are being told to tell their customers to stop downloading "pirated material". The ISP "yawns and says whatever", they send out letters.. people like me say "whatever kiss my azz" I write a response back saying "I will stop downloading the material, it was my first time and I will never do it again. I have also deleted the material".....LOL>LOL>LOL..... "right" The ISP can careless once you write them back, cause now they have a letter from you releasing the ISP from fault, the the website says "HAHAHHAHA.... idiots" ..omg I can go on and on and on all day...... IN THE END.. I still sit at home downloading my movies,games,software,music and porn.....and I am still enjoying every single bit of it............

  29.8.2007 17:27 #12

• Parodius4

  Well Torrent Spy each month they ask for the data in the ram, should pull the ram out of the machine and send it to them. Then they will see how stupid they sound.

  31.8.2007 03:25 #13

• thekingo7

  Originally posted by Parodius4: Well Torrent Spy each month they ask for the data in the ram, should pull the ram out of the machine and send it to them. Then they will see how stupid they sound.Then they should ask for compensation because server is quite expensive. They would run up quite a bill.

  31.8.2007 03:47 #14

• D40

  Originally posted by armorthis: I don't see how the United States could even have the right to obtain things like servers from outside of their own country.
  Have you never heard of The New World Order? The ruling investment classes world wide are talking to each other through groups like CFR and Trilateral Commission, and collaberating on their idea of a one world government consisting of a global fascist police state. There is a segment in the video entitled America - Freedom to Fascism that talks about this plan.
  [url=http://www.freedomtofascism.com][/url]
  The movie is primarily about the demise of US sovereignty but make no mistake this is a global plan. Very soon you could find yourself dragged into court from any country to any country. Very scarey!

  31.8.2007 07:05 #15

• WierdName

  This is retarded! They should go ahead send them dumps. After a couple months, those retards will get the hint that the data is useless and that it is doing nothing but taking up craploads of space. After a very short while, they will probably drop the whole thing, which they are going to have to do anyways because if torrentspy has stopped all server to US access, the MPAA no longer has any jurisdiction. The only thing they could possibly force them to hand over is past records, which apparently they don't have. Of course, the same idiot that ordered the logging of the RAM will probably order they to run software to recover any data still left in the RAM... which any moron can tell you would only work on a HDD/flash memory, etc. RAM is immediately deleted once the power to it is cut, not to mention new data is written over very frequently. Mitchls said it well, "...and it sounds like the Judge need to break-out PCs For Dummies- Law Edition."

  31.8.2007 14:24 #16

• CTerrian

  What's to prevent a user, who rents a server outside the US, and remotes in to that server to download from Torrentspy. Then download from the server to his local computer?

  1.9.2007 08:39 #17

• borhan9

  The fact is that torrentspy is one of many sites out there and users can always move to sites that do not have these kinda issues. Also users can use I.P Blockers.

  4.9.2007 13:51 #18

• ZippyDSM

  WierdName
  I believe the point of the judges ruling was to state that "data is being is kept on the computer" and that they should just hand it over, be it ramm or logs its irrelevant.
  
  CTerrian
  The judges ruling only counts for US IPs anythign outside is beyond the courts reach.

  4.9.2007 14:07 #19

• lilfree22

  im tiered of them tryin to mess up all the good stuff on the net man if people want to share let us but yeah ram would be useless unless they came up with some crazy new tech wich i doubt
  

  
  
  
  lilfree ey!!! if you got that on yo shout out box you coo with me if not then your not or i 4got lol
  

  5.9.2007 19:13 #20