EFF shows how RIAA lawsuits have failed

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has published a comprehensive report on the history of the Recording Industry Association of America's campaign against file sharing in the United States. The intriguing report proves how even after four years and 20,000 targets, the use of file-sharing and Internet music piracy in general has simply failed to decline in the U.S..

"Despite the RIAA's legal campaign, file-sharing is more popular than ever," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Fred von Lohmann. "History will treat this as a shameful chapter in the history of the music industry, when record companies singled out random music fans for disproportionate penalties. Artists must be compensated, but these lawsuits aren't putting money in any creator's pocket."

Attacks on file-sharing by the RIAA has led a lot of people to safer and less detectable methods such as burning and exchanging CDs among friends and sharing on members-only "darknets." The EFF also called on Universities to help artists get compensated for the use of their work but also to protect students from costly legal problems by insisting on a blanket license for their students, collecting a reasonable regular payment to allow sharing to continue.

"This is about money, not morality," said von Lohmann. "With a blanket licensing solution, the RIAA can call off the lawyers and the lobbyists, and universities can get back to education instead of copyright enforcement."

Download the full report (PDF): http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/riaa_at_four.pdf

Written by: James Delahunty @ 29 Aug 2007 20:33

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41 comments

ShoeBark

Quote:"History will treat this as a shameful chapter in the history of the music industry, when record companies singled out random music fans for disproportionate penalties. Artists must be compensated, but these lawsuits aren't putting money in any creator's pocket."Amen!

29.8.2007 22:31 #1

nobrainer

so what will happen is total control of accessible sites by the government after the mafia lobbying to combat file sharing leading way to a total shut down of the internet because of the usual scare tactics from all lobbies.

1. CHILD PORN/PAEDOPHILES
2. TERRORIST/COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST (whichever one the usa thinks will work the best to scare the populous!)
3. PIRACY (but forgetting that drugs cant be sent via p2p and the real pirates with guns never get targeted as they shoot back!)

so get ready for the trusted internet only, all to protect YOU from corruption! coming to a country near you sometime soon, ah yes all those annoying stories of western atrocities and scandals will also be deemed bad in the happy media only network.

29.8.2007 23:46 #2

MightyOne

There's going to have to be a breaking point here.
The solution cannot be just to Charge everyone you can who illegally downloads because it can easily resort to jail time.
That will cost the government in many ways, or the people really. Costs alot of money to keep someone in jail.

And yet...no one benefits.
Cost of living is so high everywhere...so many are willing to take the chance now. Nobody can afford to live the American dream

30.8.2007 06:25 #3

dude845

Doesn't the RIAA loose more money hiring a lawyer and paying for a court case :/.. So screwed up.

30.8.2007 06:47 #4

plutonash

No really. The RIAA has several Law firm contracted with them. Before the Napster days they mostly they mostly just wrote up contracts and defended the RIAA from their own artists in which they stole money from. Now they have these same guys working on suing p2p users and extorting money

30.8.2007 08:29 #5

webe123

Originally posted by nobrainer: so what will happen is total control of accessible sites by the government after the mafia lobbying to combat file sharing leading way to a total shut down of the internet because of the usual scare tactics from all lobbies.

1. CHILD PORN/PAEDOPHILES
2. TERRORIST/COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST (whichever one the usa thinks will work the best to scare the populous!)
3. PIRACY (but forgetting that drugs cant be sent via p2p and the real pirates with guns never get targeted as they shoot back!)

so get ready for the trusted internet only, all to protect YOU from corruption! coming to a country near you sometime soon, ah yes all those annoying stories of western atrocities and scandals will also be deemed bad in the happy media only network.
Well, we will see if it is the music industry that depends on customer dollars to stay alive or the customers themselves that say "screw you" to the music industry .... that wins!

I just don't think what you describe is going to happen. WHY?
Because it is the music industry that depends on sales that is vulnerable. People can just go elsewhere to get their tunes, but the industry has no place else to go. Of course people have already started tword p2p en mass anyway, so no matter what kind of laws they get passed, they will be meaningless. Just look at the "war on drugs" and see how great THAT is going!

If they can't even stop illegal drugs from comming into the US, how are they going to stop people who are becomming smarter about the way they share their music online?

They can PASS all the laws they want....ENFORCING them is another story!

30.8.2007 10:39 #6

DVDdoug

How to they know if the lawsuits are failing? I'll bet there would be much more "sharing" if there was no inforcement. But, nobody knows how much.

It's just like the "lost sales" claims. Everybody knows there are some lost sales due to illegal downloads, but nobody really knows how many of those songs would have been paid for if there was no "sharing".

Right now, it's easier get songs legally. I can go to iTunes or Napster and buy a song in a couple of minutes, or I can order the physical CD. It's going to take someone longer to find the song "for free", and then after downloading it they might find out it's the wrong song or poor quality. IMHO, If there was no enforcement, you would be able to find free songs faster than legal songs, and you would find them in any format of your choice.

30.8.2007 11:07 #7

webe123

Originally posted by DVDdoug: How to they know if the lawsuits are failing? I'll bet there would be much more "sharing" if there was no inforcement. But, nobody knows how much.

It's just like the "lost sales" claims. Everybody knows there are some lost sales due to illegal downloads, but nobody really knows how many of those songs would have been paid for if there was no "sharing".

Right now, it's easier get songs legally. I can go to iTunes or Napster and buy a song in a couple of minutes, or I can order the physical CD. It's going to take someone longer to find the song "for free", and then after downloading it they might find out it's the wrong song or poor quality. IMHO, If there was no enforcement, you would be able to find free songs faster than legal songs, and you would find them in any format of your choice.It does not take ANY TIME for someone to find the songs they want on free p2p...so your claim there is absolutely false!

You apparently don't know where to look!

30.8.2007 13:29 #8

WierdName

Originally posted by DVDdoug: How to they know if the lawsuits are failing? I'll bet there would be much more "sharing" if there was no inforcement. But, nobody knows how much.

It's just like the "lost sales" claims. Everybody knows there are some lost sales due to illegal downloads, but nobody really knows how many of those songs would have been paid for if there was no "sharing".

Right now, it's easier get songs legally. I can go to iTunes or Napster and buy a song in a couple of minutes, or I can order the physical CD. It's going to take someone longer to find the song "for free", and then after downloading it they might find out it's the wrong song or poor quality. IMHO, If there was no enforcement, you would be able to find free songs faster than legal songs, and you would find them in any format of your choice.If you know where to look, you can download high quality songs for free with your available bandwith being the only thing to slow you down. And the popularity of such places make it even easier because there are more peers to get said file(s) from. Instead of those claims you listed, you should have stated the fact of the probability of viruses and being tracked by the RIAA so they can sue you out of house, home, car, poor house, cardboard box, tree, and finally life.

EDIT- grammer

30.8.2007 15:14 #9

Unfocused

I've never had any problems finding what I want to DL. And yes, if the seeder/leecher stats are correct, there are legions of people illegally downloading.

30.8.2007 16:15 #10

georgeluv

How many more of our brothers will we see legally decimated financially by private corporations while bought politicians sit idly by before someone throws the first firebomb through the front office window of the riaa?

40,000?

80,000?

8,000,000?

30.8.2007 16:16 #11

EvilDeeds

This is the problem with the US... it's too damn big. The RIAA has gotten away with mafia tactics.

In a country where a techie gets jailed for uploading 1 film on bittorrent, has his job prospects destroyed with a criminal record and computer usaged monitored.... but some airhead bimbo called Nicole Richie gets off with 2 hours jail time for driving drugged up and drunk the wrong way down a freeway. Land of the corporation - not the free. I hope you guys stop the business' running the US before it's too late. Eventually the rest of the net will start closing it's doors on you, just like torrentspy had to (so it could protect the rest of us!).

This isn't an attack on americans btw, it's a plea for you to sort your corporations out... they work for you, not the other way round!! :)

31.8.2007 07:28 #12

cappyx

sounds similar to the war on drugs you shut down one source and several new ones open up. once again lower the cost of the media and put it in a paper sleeve and piracy will have no purpose.

31.8.2007 08:21 #13

georgeluv

you can still get in torrentspy very easily, you just use torpark to go on torrentspy then select english then download the torrent. then run the torrent, everything is fine. this ruling is jsut going to teach a big chunk of people how to tunnel out, thats all.

31.8.2007 09:52 #14

Byron9

31.8.2007 11:28 #15

webe123

Originally posted by AtiLaw: This is the problem with the US... it's too damn big. The RIAA has gotten away with mafia tactics.

In a country where a techie gets jailed for uploading 1 film on bittorrent, has his job prospects destroyed with a criminal record and computer usaged monitored.... but some airhead bimbo called Nicole Richie gets off with 2 hours jail time for driving drugged up and drunk the wrong way down a freeway. Land of the corporation - not the free. I hope you guys stop the business' running the US before it's too late. Eventually the rest of the net will start closing it's doors on you, just like torrentspy had to (so it could protect the rest of us!).

This isn't an attack on americans btw, it's a plea for you to sort your corporations out... they work for you, not the other way round!! :)
Get your head out of your ass! In the first place, not evreyone in the US is for these corporations and the power they have. But if YOU think you are so damn smart...let's see you either A. come over here and show us HOW to shut down these corporation's you speak of...or B. Keep your DAMN MOUTH SHUT! Either way I don't care.

If it was as easy as you make it out to be, they would have been shut down a long time ago stupid! There are people fighting them...people like the EFF, soccer moms and even a class action lawsuit against the RIAA! What the hell do you WANT?

And if you think that Americans are worried about some dumbass spyware ridden torrent site shutting users out from the US, you are SADLY mistaken!

There are PLENTY of places Americans can go besides torrentspy. And there always WILL BE...weather you want to believe it or not. And regardless of how dumb the media mafia acts!

31.8.2007 13:15 #16

EvilDeeds

>> Get your head out of your ass!

It's not, which is why I am able to see things outside of it.

>> In the first place, not evreyone in the US is for these corporations and the power they have.

Believe it or not, I actually see that, but it's a few groups in a massive country

>> But if YOU think you are so damn smart...let's see you either A. come over here and show us HOW to shut down these corporation's you speak of...or B. Keep your DAMN MOUTH SHUT! Either way I don't care.

You cared enough to have a go at me, so I guess there is a choice I have to make..... errrrmmmmmmmm....... b??

>> If it was as easy as you make it out to be, they would have been shut down a long time ago stupid! There are people fighting them...people like the EFF, soccer moms and even a class action lawsuit against the RIAA! What the hell do you WANT?

More people fighting them... that would be nice. and I know the EFF are fighting them, and I love reading stories on the soccer mum who seems to be kicking their ass... and I never said it was easy.

>> And if you think that Americans are worried about some dumbass spyware ridden torrent site shutting users out from the US, you are SADLY mistaken!

Some are upset... but I'm glad the majority of you are coping well! lol.. I personally dont use them, I like my newsgroups. :)

>> There are PLENTY of places Americans can go besides torrentspy. And there always WILL BE...weather you want to believe it or not. And regardless of how dumb the media mafia acts!

It's whether... and good... I'm very happy for you. Well done.

31.8.2007 13:27 #17

rlessmue

Wow. Just chill dude. It's not "our" country - against "your" country. It's about the RIAA feeling that they can do what they please and get away with it. Basicly it comes down to this:
1) The police need to stop people who are speeding.
So they get radar guns to "clock" people who are going to fast.
2) People find out about the "radar guns" and get radar detectors and avoid the police.
3) The police find out that their radar guns are not as effective, so they get "better" radar guns.
4) People find out about the "better" radar guns and get better radar detectors.
.... and so the cycle continues.

So the same when Napster came out, the "police" didn't like it so they found they "stopped" Napster from doing what it is doing. That didn't stop the issue, because people found another way around it. Servers in Germany, P2P, CD/DVD swapping, Torrents, the list goes on. Basicly - If they shut down one thing / idea, another one pops up in it's place. Good luck... something else will take the place of what you are trying to stop...

Can't we all just get along :)

31.8.2007 15:41 #18

Y2kBug

Bottom line on this is they (RIAA and the movie guys) that this is all to put money back into the artists pocket yet i havent seen the artist getting any money.I go to jail, my family suffers finacial loss from me not working anymore and the RIAA and its lawyers get bigger paychecks.where is the fairness in that?

31.8.2007 17:43 #19

WierdName

Originally posted by Y2kBug: Bottom line on this is they (RIAA and the movie guys) that this is all to put money back into the artists pocket yet i havent seen the artist getting any money.I go to jail, my family suffers finacial loss from me not working anymore and the RIAA and its lawyers get bigger paychecks.where is the fairness in that?THE ARTIST ARE GETTING MONEY! Because of the RIAA's hard efforts to stop piracy, the artists sell more so they make more. See? You must be blinded by reality. You should look at it through the eyes of the RIAA. It really closes... I mean, opens your eyes.

31.8.2007 17:53 #20

YOBUZZB

If I buy a music cd or movie dvd, I own it. It's mine! I will share it with whomever I please or not at all. That's my choice because that cd/dvd is my property. If I decide to take it out and stomp the crap out of it, would that make the RIAA/MPAA happy? Why do they care so much about what I do with "MY" property? We are looking for ways to save money. The corporations are looking for ways to save money. If they can find away to get something for nothing, how fast do you think they'll do it? Things that make you go hmmmm.... Oh! and by the way, there's not an artist out there that's starving from not being paid from "so called lost sales". If memory serves, they get an enormous amount of free crap too! Why? So we'll go out and buy it! Hmmm... Can you say hypocrites? I know you can....

31.8.2007 18:19 #21

Mez

I can't believe all this negitivity over the most upbeat article about p2p this year. They will eventually shut down public p2p but the damage is already done. Starting with Napster enough tunes were shared that large numbers of people had huge collections. p2p probably amplified the 'problem' or solution at least a thousand fold. We have millions of people sitting on huge collections. Now dark nets and even 'sneeker nets' (where you walk a collection to someone else) will continue to spread the music.

DVDdoug, I am sure persons buying from Napster or iTunes do not know junk when they hear it. They don't sell better than 120 BR. Most freebee stuff is at least that good often it is 320. I am all for ripping CDs, and capturing old vinyl. I know where there is a salvation army that sells vinyl There you can rip it your own way. Of course if you rip it with itunes whoops! I forgot to capitalize the T. Do you know why they capitalize the second letter instead of the first? That is to warn smart people so stay clear of them. If you rip with that trashy software you will get the same low quality tunes you buy from them. 120 BR. Of course, if you use itunes to load your high quality tunes onto your ipod itunes down grade the music for you. They make sure you don't have any good stuff. That is why it takes so long to down load. I know maybe ipods may not be able to produce high quality music. I still don't like them going behind my back and doing what they please to my tunes. The compression algorythems are poor. That means they can add size and reduce quality at the same time. I hate that company! They will lose their fat market the the Chinese. Just like the lost the computer market to the PCs. The Chinese are making better products at a tenth yes a TENTH the price. Yes, the products are better, I hope! I just bought one for grins. I paid more for postage than for the mp4 player.

31.8.2007 18:42 #22

H0bbes

Poopoo heads! ;-)

31.8.2007 22:04 #23

EvilDeeds

My samsung player rapes anything the iPod could do! :) Wouldn't touch iPod with a barge-pole.

1.9.2007 00:09 #24

vegasNERD

To be sure, though, it must be scary to be slapped with a lawsuit...
Espescially when the music is gained under a false pretense of 'sharing'...I guess this is sorta what McCarthyism felt like.

1.9.2007 07:22 #25

Mez

The worst part is usually, the guilty party holding the bag is ignorant about what is going on. Kids down load P2P engines for free and start downloading. Most P2P will continue to run in the backround after you close the app. Most families are not technical enough to understand what they are doing. Most parents would not recognize a P2P app if they even saw it running. Many don't even know what P2P is. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but it does make it look bad.

1.9.2007 07:50 #26

vegasNERD

The worst part is in this huge metropolitan city I live in, there's only one true music store. Not to mention if your debit card # has been stolen and exploited by whomever, you're that much more less apt to make online transactions. Kinda sad when you think about it. Free commercial radio plays probably the exact same stuff free as the stuff downloaded.

1.9.2007 08:09 #27

Mez

There was talk that the RIAA wanted radio stations to pay royalties to them.

1.9.2007 10:14 #28

ZippyDSM

It will be interesting when goverment and corporations fully control the net, I mean how much will sheeple be brain washed IRL to let them do it.

1.9.2007 10:18 #29

WierdName

Originally posted by Mez: There was talk that the RIAA wanted radio stations to pay royalties to them.As a matter of fact, they did get internet radio to have to pay royalties. I'm pretty sure standard over the air radio stations are still fine though.

1.9.2007 11:38 #30

webe123

Originally posted by AtiLaw: It's not, which is why I am able to see things outside of it.No, you are not able to see clearly at all...so do what I said. If you do, you MIGHT see that it is not the average consumer responsible the DRM that ison a lot of products...it is the media companies that insist on it...so put the blame where it belongs!

Originally posted by AtiLaw: Believe it or not, I actually see that, but it's a few groups in a massive countrySo I will repeat it for you...put the BLAME where the blame belongs...not the consumer, the media companies.

Originally posted by AtiLaw: You cared enough to have a go at me, so I guess there is a choice I have to make..... errrrmmmmmmmm....... b??I cared enough to tell you a few things because you had them completely WRONG and were making false statemments about people in the US rising up against media companies...when there are already people that are. Take that as you want to...I don't care. But blaming consumers for something the media mafia started is stupid.

Originally posted by AtiLaw: More people fighting them... that would be nice. and I know the EFF are fighting them, and I love reading stories on the soccer mum who seems to be kicking their ass... and I never said it was easy.If you think there should be more involvement...then get your lazy ass out there and do something. Quit expecting everyone else to do it for you! Or are you afraid to try?

Originally posted by AtiLaw: Some are upset... but I'm glad the majority of you are coping well! lol.. I personally dont use them, I like my newsgroups. :)I use newsgroups also, but for those that still use torrents, this means absolutely nothing. There are sites that have already taken over...so it is torrentspy's loss...not americans.

Originally posted by AtiLaw: It's whether... and good... I'm very happy for you. Well done.I was not speaking of me. I was speakinmg about people who use torrents.

The fact is that you made some very arrogant and stupid remarks like countries shutting americans out because of the stupidity of the media mafia and THEN blaming ordinary Americans for it and saying THEY should do something about it!

You still have your head in your ass if you think that is true.

1.9.2007 12:24 #31

webe123

Originally posted by rlessmue: Wow. Just chill dude. It's not "our" country - against "your" country. It's about the RIAA feeling that they can do what they please and get away with it. Basicly it comes down to this:
1) The police need to stop people who are speeding.
So they get radar guns to "clock" people who are going to fast.
2) People find out about the "radar guns" and get radar detectors and avoid the police.
3) The police find out that their radar guns are not as effective, so they get "better" radar guns.
4) People find out about the "better" radar guns and get better radar detectors.
.... and so the cycle continues.

So the same when Napster came out, the "police" didn't like it so they found they "stopped" Napster from doing what it is doing. That didn't stop the issue, because people found another way around it. Servers in Germany, P2P, CD/DVD swapping, Torrents, the list goes on. Basicly - If they shut down one thing / idea, another one pops up in it's place. Good luck... something else will take the place of what you are trying to stop...

Can't we all just get along :)
The reason I responded to that poster the way I did was because he BLAMED ordinary americans for the actions that the media mafia had taken, then had the gall to act like it was THEIR FAULT because they did not take strong enough action against them! I say BULLSHIT!

He apparently can't read about the numerous lawsuits that "ordinary americans" have taken against these giant corporations.

1.9.2007 12:28 #32

vegasNERD

c'mon guys, lets show some solidarity. Those pricks would stick it to any ONE of us if given the chance.....Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna dub to a cassette in a basement somewhere in the middle of the desert. SHH!
LOL

1.9.2007 13:14 #33

rlessmue

Quote:Originally posted by rlessmue: Wow. Just chill dude. It's not "our" country - against "your" country. It's about the RIAA feeling that they can do what they please and get away with it. Basicly it comes down to this:
1) The police need to stop people who are speeding.
So they get radar guns to "clock" people who are going to fast.
2) People find out about the "radar guns" and get radar detectors and avoid the police.
3) The police find out that their radar guns are not as effective, so they get "better" radar guns.
4) People find out about the "better" radar guns and get better radar detectors.
.... and so the cycle continues.

So the same when Napster came out, the "police" didn't like it so they found they "stopped" Napster from doing what it is doing. That didn't stop the issue, because people found another way around it. Servers in Germany, P2P, CD/DVD swapping, Torrents, the list goes on. Basicly - If they shut down one thing / idea, another one pops up in it's place. Good luck... something else will take the place of what you are trying to stop...

Can't we all just get along :)
The reason I responded to that poster the way I did was because he BLAMED ordinary americans for the actions that the media mafia had taken, then had the gall to act like it was THEIR FAULT because they did not take strong enough action against them! I say BULLSHIT!

He apparently can't read about the numerous lawsuits that "ordinary americans" have taken against these giant corporations.
============
I somewhat agree. Stereo-Typing runs rampant through those who are not informed completely about the situation that they are basicly placing their bias on (but are we -ever- really completely informed!?). All I'm saying is that some people have a tendency to draw their own pre-conceived conclusions about the way people from a country other than their own live, act, run their lives, what they buy, the music they listen to, and even the way they look. I do believe that current global situations and actions have a way in influncing all cultures - no matter what country you live in. So, if your source of information is limited or "governed" by what you can read (or what you believe in) or by the amount of information you can get hold of, your view point and knowledge about the subject matter will be limited - or in this case, not as well informed. But most of the time, people are pretty lazy and don't want to take the effort to find-out the real truth... and just agree with what the media feeds them. So, in finishing my thesis, I would like to say thank-you for listening to my limited in-sight and knowledge about the way the RIAA works...I think their goal (RIAA), is that the whole world is guilty and YOU will have to prove that you do not own any illegal music....Remember...we are ALL in this together.

Cheers... I have to go, I hear a pint at the pub calling...

1.9.2007 14:18 #34

sparkery

I think they should close down all the libraries because people go there and share books... .in broad daylight!! The artist and publishers are losing money every day! This is P2P and should be closed.

1.9.2007 21:50 #35

sparkery

I think they should close down all the libraries because people go there and share books... .in broad daylight!! The author and publishers are losing money every day! This is P2P and should be closed.

1.9.2007 21:58 #36

WierdName

Originally posted by sparkery: I think they should close down all the libraries because people go there and share books... .in broad daylight!! The author and publishers are losing money every day! This is P2P and should be closed.Hmmmm... you are meaning P as in person right? If so, that is P2P and should be stopped. Although, on a realistic level, the people don't keep the book. Only one person has it at a time.

EDIT- You know what? I have the ultimate way to stop piracy altogether. Here it is, you ready? Ok, how about this: the RIAA, MPAA, and others get together and force all software developers, including those that create the OS, to remove all copy functions and never again implement them. That way, nothing can ever be copied again and therefore, it won't be possible to engage in piracy. Excellent plan eh? The sad (well, maybe thats a bad choice of word) part is that the RIAA, MPAA, etc. would probably try that... I can see it now, "a new bill was passed in legislature today that prohibits all copy functions on computers."

1.9.2007 23:22 #37

nobrainer

Originally posted by WierdName : Originally posted by sparkery: I think they should close down all the libraries because people go there and share books... .in broad daylight!! The author and publishers are losing money every day! This is P2P and should be closed.Hmmmm... you are meaning P as in person right? If so, that is P2P and should be stopped. Although, on a realistic level, the people don't keep the book. Only one person has it at a time.

EDIT- You know what? I have the ultimate way to stop piracy altogether. Here it is, you ready? Ok, how about this: the RIAA, MPAA, and others get together and force all software developers, including those that create the OS, to remove all copy functions and never again implement them. That way, nothing can ever be copied again and therefore, it won't be possible to engage in piracy. Excellent plan eh? The sad (well, maybe thats a bad choice of word) part is that the RIAA, MPAA, etc. would probably try that... I can see it now, "a new bill was passed in legislature today that prohibits all copy functions on computers."its funny how sony created the copy generation with the legal battles with vcr's, now they are the ones trying to stop it by implementing drm into every technology created and have more, pro drm lobbyists than there are congress member!

Track What Companies Have Edited Wiki http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/ (very heavy load atm)

2.9.2007 12:33 #38

EvilDeeds

>> No, you are not able to see clearly at all...so do what I said. If you do, you MIGHT see that it is not the average consumer responsible the DRM that ison a lot of products...it is the media companies that insist on it...so put the blame where it belongs!

Erm, no... the RIAA is americas responsibility, it says so in the name, yes the media companies are the ones to blame for lots of nasty stuff - that much is obvious, but the average consumer puts up with it - if they didn't then the media companies wouldn't be getting away with it.

>> So I will repeat it for you...put the BLAME where the blame belongs...not the consumer, the media companies.

And I repeat again to you, I know it's the media companies doing stuff - so you should be doing something about it. Do you take as much time writing replies to me as you do writing to companies complaining about things like DRM and mafia tactics on average consumers.

>> I cared enough to tell you a few things because you had them completely WRONG and were making false statemments about people in the US rising up against media companies...when there are already people that are. Take that as you want to...I don't care. But blaming consumers for something the media mafia started is stupid.

Right, so you are the center of the universe, you decide what is right and wrong?? Plain and simple really, if people dont put up with it, companies wouldnt try and do it. That is not wrong... you are obviously too bent on proving me wrong to listen to that... there are groups working towards a common goal - I already agreed on that, my point was that there needs to be more.

>> If you think there should be more involvement...then get your lazy ass out there and do something. Quit expecting everyone else to do it for you! Or are you afraid to try?

I'm not lazy, and I do get involved. I have been to protests (most recent was stopping the BBC from using M$ DRM for their online service) and I sign petitions (lots of them). I also vote with my feet, so I boycot Sony (Japanese, so it's not just america!) for their DRM in CD's, closing people like liksang for no reason etc... I also don't buy CDs that have known DRM, I don't buy DVD's that contain "Get the facts" compulsary 10 minute ad's, and I make sure they know it by sending complaints about things I accidently buy. So maybe you should actually start looking at how the world works, then when somebody challenges your perception think about it, THEN flame them. Incidently, most of this falls on deaf ears because not enough people do it - not just americans... but this story was just about america being blocked by spytorrent in reaction to american legislation forcing them to break the rules of their own territory... which is why I tried to open some of the ignorant "who cares, their loss" comments on here (by americans). To be honest, I care too much about this - so I'm gonna just give up after this post... it's obviously too much for some people to grasp.

>> I use newsgroups also, but for those that still use torrents, this means absolutely nothing. There are sites that have already taken over...so it is torrentspy's loss...not americans.

Read my last comment! :)

>> The fact is that you made some very arrogant and stupid remarks like countries shutting americans out because of the stupidity of the media mafia and THEN blaming ordinary Americans for it and saying THEY should do something about it!

Riiiiiight, so companies often deny access to an entire country - lets be clear though, it was legislation that essentially forced spytorrent to do this, not the RIAA... obviously somebody who makes the laws and runs the courts in the US are in the pockets of the RIAA - how does that not scare you?? I'm not going to play the blame game... but like I said, the RIAA wont listen to the rest of the world, they are an american body that answers to americans - and you are essentially holding your hands up and saying it's not america's responsibility... again, there is something in the name that contradicts that!!

>> You still have your head in your ass if you think that is true.

Wow... constructive... if you had put that amount of creativity in your insults into actually doing something like complaining to the RIAA directly maybe we would get somewhere.

SOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo in conclusion, I think people in general (not just americans) have a responsibility to complain and stop groups/companies in their own countries acting like they own us. But we are each responsible for our own lot, in the UK we have the BPI, so I complain to them... in the US you have the RIAA (thats where you come in). If I responded to you and said the BPI isn't my problem, you should sort them out what would be your reply?? I know the BPI would tell you to go f**k yourself (maybe not word for word though!) because they answer to british authority, not americans.... which is pretty much what spytorrent just did to the US courts.

Bored now... <gone>

2.9.2007 13:45 #39

Mez

AtiLaw
Quote:[/>> No, you are not able to see clearly at all...so do what I said. If you do, you MIGHT see that it is not the average consumer responsible the DRM that ison a lot of products...it is the media companies that insist on it...so put the blame where it belongs!
It is a free world. People are not oblgated to see things your way. If people want to buy music with DRMs, it is their money. I agree is no one bought it they would stop selling it. Even if they did, what would that accomplish? That would not even effect the RIAA in the least. What is effecting them is a large portion of the public is ripping their own music off vinyl and CDs and playing that instead of the originals. They can't count on the public continuing to buy the same stuff over and over again. That coupled with the low volume of music that is compelling enough to purchase has put them in a bind. Even without music sharing the music industry is hurting. File sharing has made the situation much worse for them.

Watch out what you wish for...

I think we all underestimate what the music industry has given the public other than the hard time that they are giving us now. They are just trying to survive. If they go by the way of the dodo bird who will produce the music to share? Who ever vends the music will be a next generation music industry and will be far more technologically savvey.

4.9.2007 03:13 #40

borhan9

I bet the riaa would be loving this being brought out to the public.

9.9.2007 23:17 #41

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