AfterDawn: News

DVD Forum approves 51GB HD DVD disc?

According to an article posted on Screen Digest, the DVD Forum has approved a 51GB HD DVD disc. The disc, which consists of three layers of 17GB each, was reportedly approved for production by the DVD Forum on August 31st. The extension to the HD DVD standard was submitted to the DVD Forum back in April of this year.

The HD DVD group has not proved the technical feasibility of the disc and there are no details on whether any currently available HD DVD hardware is "triple-layer-ready". A rumor that has been around for months claims that many HD DVD players available will be able to play the triple layer disc after a firmware update, but the group has not commented.



Toshiba had talked about a triple layer 45GB disc back in May 2005, but by pushing capacity to 51GB the group may aim to get it out while Blu-ray dual-layer discs offer 50GB capacity. Of course, Blu-ray is not "stuck" at 50GB just as HD DVD is not stuck with 30GB.

We will post an update if there is confirmation or denial of the report.

Source:
Screen Digest

Written by: James Delahunty @ 10 Sep 2007 19:50

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• 20 comments

• H0bbes

  The plot thickens... :-p

  10.9.2007 20:01 #1

• ZippyDSM

  there a few troubles with this BWC with gen 1-2 players,it dose open up the future for HDVD ,and the HDVD camp can go into full assault mode by offering free frimware updates via net/DVD download or fee disc by mail.
  
  I wonder how bad the ratio of good pressings tho.

  10.9.2007 21:29 #2

• JaguarGod

  LOL, I misread the topic as "DVD Forum approves 51GB HVD"...
  
  I read before that the 51GB HD DVDs were going to be for certain special releases and not for every movie. 51GB is a lot of space and more that you need for a movie. I guess you can have more audio streams and more extras.
  
  This is nice and people like stuff like this and it will help them compete.

  10.9.2007 23:26 #3

• xtago

  TDK have 200gig Blu-ray disks.

  11.9.2007 01:32 #4

• BIGnewb

  http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story...b_blu-ray_media

  11.9.2007 03:02 #5

• vtowner

  Yea but the 200GB discs won't come into play in the movie industry cuz that's way too much space for a movie. The movies now usually don't even take full capacity of the 30GB or 50GB. These 200GB discs are more aimed at techy people who want to store a lot of data on one disc.

  11.9.2007 03:07 #6

• hughjars

  The word on avs is that we just have to wait another 30 days (for a movie announcement?) and there will be a big public announcement on this.
  
  .....and as for claims of 75gb, 100gb or 200gb Blu-ray discs?
  LMAO.
  There are no 75gb, 100gb or 200gb discs.
  There are only a handful of prototypes in aa couple of labs, all years away from making any impact on this, if ever at all.
  
  It would just be too little too late and could only serve to alienate the existing BD user base and confuse the public given they won't work on existing players and would need incredibly expensive hardware to operate if they ever do come!
  
  Then you'd also need to pray that they have the slightest relevance to real-time movie play-back......or that any of those remaining Blu-ray movie studios would even bother with them if so few can use them etc etc.
  
  They can barely get their BD 50gb dual layer disc to replicate economically nevermind anything else.

  11.9.2007 04:04 #7

• xtago

  Originally posted by hughjars: The word on avs is that we just have to wait another 30 days (for a movie announcement?) and there will be a big public announcement on this.
  
  .....and as for claims of 75gb, 100gb or 200gb Blu-ray discs?
  LMAO.
  There are no 75gb, 100gb or 200gb discs.
  There are only a handful of prototypes in aa couple of labs, all years away from making any impact on this, if ever at all.
  
  It would just be too little too late and could only serve to alienate the existing BD user base and confuse the public given they won't work on existing players and would need incredibly expensive hardware to operate if they ever do come!
  Maybe you didn't read what I had wrote TDK have made a 200gig Blu-Ray disk, they could sell it right now their prototype Blu-rays are larger than 200gigs, my understanding is that you could go up to 30 layers on Blu-Ray which equals 750gigs as the largest Blu-Ray disk you could goto.
  
  The Blu-ray drives don't need a firmware update they can read up to 8 layers right now, which = 200gigs.
  
  If they were to make a larger sized Blu-Ray then you might need a new firmware update, who knows as there havn't been any press releases about Blu-Rays larger than 200gigs though TDK said they want to test out using more layers so expect even larger Blu-ray disks to be made.
  
  My oirginal post was to simply expand on what the larger Blu-ray disk size was.

  11.9.2007 04:43 #8

• Riotard

  xtago for a start you aare compeltly wrong!
  
  hughjars is correct in this case!
  
  this 200GB disc! there are only a few prototypes in the world for a start!
  
  There is is NO DISC YET MADE THAT CAN HOLD 750GB its a theory mate that they technically can! 30 layers! they woudl need a new disc palyer alltogether for taht mate, the disc does grow in size when they had more layers! especially 30!
  
  adding 1 layer to somethign wont affect the thickness much for a firmware update would be able to make it read! an 8 layered disc however woudl need a new player although to read it!
  
  Another thing There is no need for 200Gb for a movie! they can barely reach 30GB for a movie!
  
  Mate you can't go around making fake facts out of no where, there isn't a 200GB BR disc that coudl be put into mass productiona t this tiem and no way could current BR players read it! Its just stupid even suggestign that!
  
  Anotehr thing they ahve discs i beleive that go to 750GB they are the next next gen formate, UV ray and Light crystals, obviosuly these are 10 years or so off, but frankly i can't see how anyone coudl use more then 500GB on a hard drive and need BR discs or HD DVD discs to write onto!
  
  ANotehr thing do you no how long it woudl take to write a 200GB BR disc fully with 8 layers goign at 1x!
  
  A BLOODY LONG TIME!
  
  Next time don't say stupid comments, then think your right after ppl have burned you!

  11.9.2007 08:01 #9

• plutonash

  Wow Hughjar was right and it finally happened. While I think 34 GB is the sweet spot due to TrueHD I think this is great news and maybe the thing that bring Disney over since they were all about extra feature and space. Since all BD releases have little to no interactive features and have to restort to "faking it" ala Descent, since BD-J is screwed to hell. So lets wait and see if Disney may dump Blu-ray just as Paramount did. Also this thing is done and working unlike the phantom 200 GB BD disc so please stop spreading lies.

  11.9.2007 08:44 #10

• ZippyDSM

  Don't forget people after about 40GB (this includes 2 or 3 variates of multi channel sound in 2-5 langaues) that HOLLYWOOD itself dose not want a bigger disc, that would mean they could put more product on it and have the consumer buy "less".
  
  This could be the hidden nails that will finish off BR, bear with this train of thought, if BR won then every 5 or so years you get a expanded disc type up to maybe 150GB in less than 20 years and have 2 or 6 generation jumps to use them and up speeds.
  
  Can you see the industry and the consuemrs try and sale 50$+ seasonal discs?
  
  Knowing the industry they are not going to lower "realitive" price much and consumers are not going to buy 40$+ discs in large numbers.

  11.9.2007 09:11 #11

• borhan9

  this is was going to be approved regardless if we are increasing the sizes of hdd then discs also need to increase its a no brainer.

  11.9.2007 18:42 #12

• xtago

  Originally posted by Riotard:
  this 200GB disc! there are only a few prototypes in the world for a start!
  
  There is is NO DISC YET MADE THAT CAN HOLD 750GB its a theory mate that they technically can! 30 layers! they woudl need a new disc palyer alltogether for taht mate, the disc does grow in size when they had more layers! especially 30!Well that's not exactly what the news reports are saying,
  the 100Gig Blu-ray got shown back in May last year and is meant to be released for sale this year and 200gig Blu-rays should be in a press release this year as well as back in 2004 Sony had 200gig blu-Ray demo disks at a trade show.
  
  The Blu-ray disk spec is meant to allow for 30 layers of 25gig each, the TDK 100gig disk is meant to have 3 layers at 33gig each.
  
  30 layers of 25gigs each = 750gig all up these disks havn't been made but might come out for sale one day if the specs are correct.
  
  Originally posted by Riotard:
  adding 1 layer to somethign wont affect the thickness much for a firmware update would be able to make it read! an 8 layered disc however woudl need a new player although to read it!
  Well this news release doesn't say that only Toshibas HD-DVD players can read 3 layer HD-DVD disks after you do a firmware update to them, all other brand players can't read them or after a firmware might be able to read them.
  
  so owning an LG HD-DVD player doesn't mean you can read 3 layer HD-DVD disks even after a firmware update.
  
  Originally posted by Riotard:
  Another thing There is no need for 200Gb for a movie! they can barely reach 30GB for a movie!
  
  Mate you can't go around making fake facts out of no where, there isn't a 200GB BR disc that coudl be put into mass productiona t this tiem and no way could current BR players read it! Its just stupid even suggestign that!
  
  Anotehr thing they ahve discs i beleive that go to 750GB they are the next next gen formate, UV ray and Light crystals, obviosuly these are 10 years or so off, but frankly i can't see how anyone coudl use more then 500GB on a hard drive and need BR discs or HD DVD discs to write onto!lol, well you go and tell TDK that they are making stuff up and not to tell the press about it. :)
  
  Who talking about movies, I could easiy fill a 200gig Blu-Ray disk right now, but I have over 1 Tb of HD space here already and running out of some space, I'm thinking of brabbing a Blu-Ray burner just to get some quick disk space happening, 4-8gig just doesn't really cut it anymore when your've got at least 100+gigs to back-up in the one hit.
  
  Your thinking of those 1 terrabyte disks, yeah they will be good but they have to be made first.
  
  Originally posted by Riotard:
  ANotehr thing do you no how long it woudl take to write a 200GB BR disc fully with 8 layers goign at 1x!
  
  A BLOODY LONG TIME!
  
  Next time don't say stupid comments, then think your right after ppl have burned you!No idea but Blu-Ray burners start at 2.5x and you can get 4x Blu-ray burners as TDK make 4x blank 25-50gig Blu-Ray disks.
  
  I'd guess it'd only be the 16mins as 2.5x blu-ray would be writing probably 2meg a spin.
  
  1x Cd-ROM is 300kb each spin
  1x DVD rom is 600kb each spin
  
  DVD writes about double of what a CD-ROM spin will write, Blu-ray would be over double.

  12.9.2007 02:59 #13

• hughjars

  LMAO.
  
  HD DVD gets DVD Forum approval for the 51gb disc and xtago wants to sit here pretending the real issue is that 75gb, 100gb or 200gb Blu-ray discs are set to hit the shops at any moment and will be usable by all existing Blu-ray players.
  
  Hilarious, if somewhat (obviously) desperate.

  12.9.2007 07:49 #14

• emugamer

  Originally posted by vtowner: Yea but the 200GB discs won't come into play in the movie industry cuz that's way too much space for a movie. The movies now usually don't even take full capacity of the 30GB or 50GB. These 200GB discs are more aimed at techy people who want to store a lot of data on one disc.Although the LOTR Platinum 12 disc set (including all the extras) would be nice on a single disc ;-)

  12.9.2007 08:09 #15

• hughjars

  Oh dear, it just gets worse for Blu-ray.....
  
  Denon says the 'profile 1.1' discs might not work on existing 'profile 1.0' Blu-ray players.
  
  If this turns out to be the case (or even if many players have huge problems with it) Blu-ray is in enormous trouble.
  
  (is that the real reason for the continual delays with it?)
  
  Quote:JT: The profile itself is the next step in the Blu-ray evolution. HD DVD is what I call a "baked format", meaning it's basically done. There are some copy protection things, but that's later, and they’re not going to affect performance and playback of material. For Blu-ray, on the other hand, Profile 1.1 is just the next step — there's actually a Version 2 some time next year. That's going to deal with players and the software, so it's two-sided. But back to Profile 1.1. It mandates that players must have secondary audio and video processing for picture-in-picture capabilities, be able to support external storage of some type — or internal storage, it's really an option, I believe — for downloaded Web material. Current Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players do not have to have any “connect” port. Those that do, it's really for firmware update, but that’s the only thing it's really good for. Where HD DVD, has HDI, it's an interactive version. And even that port is required to go to a movie’s web site or a dedicated space to download extra material. When our player comes out, the first thing people will notice on the front panel is that is has an SD card slot. We give you an SD card, and obviously, you can buy others. You would take that to your computer, go to the movie website on the card and download this material, toss it into the player, and then be able to access that simultaneously with the movie playback.
  
  Q: Will that load the information to the disc's menu system?
  
  JT: Most likely. I haven't seen it in true operation yet; once I get it, obviously, I'll know. But that's the premise. So you can have running pictures of the director, of the actors doing commentary or whatever other material the studio feels that they want to give you to make it a truly interactive experience. After that, it's standard Blu-ray.
  But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile, they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players.
  
  Q: Really?
  
  JT: It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs.
  The BD portion [of the DVD-3800BDCI] is going to be the newest and latest and greatest available, but the biggest concern for us was not to forget about SD, standard definition.
  So in reality, for a lot of your readers and your customers and a lot of the people out there that check the site, this is like a DVD-3930CI with Blu-ray added. [But without DVD-Audio or SACD – Ed.]
  
  
  
  http://www.listenup.com/content/partner_...adge.aug.07.php
  
  - Denon says they are not releasing their player until later next year and that they are staying 'format neutral and releasing a multi-format player later on.
  
  But [b]it is frankly astounding to know that they are still 'working hard' to ensure 'profile 1.1' discs & players work with 'profile 1.0' discs and players at this stage![/i]
  
  We all knew 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' extras & features would not work on all the current 'profile 1.0' players but to know that basic operation is still in doubt and being worked (hard) upon is incredible.
  No wonder they keep delaying 'profile 1.1' & 'profile 2.0'.
  
  If it comes down to it will they just go for it & leave behind the existing owners or will they abandon those supposedly 'advanced extras' they tout
  (which btw HD DVD has had since day 1)?
  
  That must be deeply worrying for anyone who has bought into Blu-ray so far and must place a large quesrtion mark over Blu-ray as a viable format.
  My how things have changed, what a difference a month makes, eh?
  
  LMAO.

  12.9.2007 12:36 #16

• hughjars

  Wow, not one of the Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub wants to debate this, what a surprise, not.
  
  I suppose they'll be claiming Denon have been paid off too, huh?

  12.9.2007 17:32 #17

• error5

  Well back on topic (and hughjar's chest-thumping aside):
  
  I think we can remove the question mark from the thread's title. The Steering Committe of the DVD Forum has officially approved the physical specifications of HD DVD-ROM (51 Gigs). From the resolutions of the 39th Steering Committee Meeting today Sept. 12, 2007:
  
  http://www.dvdforum.org/39scmtg-resolution.htm
  
  The triple-layer twin format (which is different from the 51 Gig disc) has also been approved.
  
  Now we wait for the movie releases. I just have a feeling the TL Twin will have a bigger effect on sales than the TL51 and will be the real star of the show.

  12.9.2007 18:21 #18

• hughjars

  Originally posted by error5: Well back on topic (and hughjar's chest-thumping aside) - My "chest-thumping"?!
  
  Well given that this info is from Denon (and hardly some no-name so-called 'insider' or unsubstantiated rumour) and that it was others here taking this OT with a stack of waffle about what they imagine Blu-ray might do at some undetermined point in the future I think that's a tad uncalled for.

  13.9.2007 05:04 #19

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by error5: I just have a feeling the TL Twin will have a bigger effect on sales than the TL51 and will be the real star of the show.I think you have a point there. If they can get the TL Twin off the ground with reasonable manufacturing costs, acceptable yields and glitch-free playback then the transition from DVD to HD will be easier.

  13.9.2007 07:55 #20