Despite Bourne, Blu-ray still wins week

After taking a week off for the holiday season, the official HD disc sales data are in from Nielsen VideoScan, and the results are not surprising.

Despite very strong sales of the HD DVD-exclusive "Bourne Ultimatum", Blu-ray won the week ending December 16th by a 61:39 margin. "Ultimatum" outsold Blu-ray's best title, "POTC: At World's End" by an almost 2:1 ratio, but Amazon's Blu-ray BOGO (buy one get one free) sale helped bring old favorites such as "300", "Spider-Man 3", and "Casino Royale" to sales they haven't seen in a while.

This upcoming week should be interesting to see considering Amazon and Best Buy have had BOGO sales running on HD DVD titles.

Source:
EngadgetHD

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 28 Dec 2007 18:12

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66 comments

Rudeboi

Blu-Ray FTW

28.12.2007 23:34 #1

b18bek9

i dont know why u post blu ray is selling more movies when they should by alot figuring new and older movies are blu ray only. Sony has a bigger bunch of studios so of course its gonna sell more movies why do u need a study to find that out and also HD DVD has only a couple movies that are HD exclusive so its not a surprise that sonys winning this format war. Sad to say it but the anti consumer has the upper hand...oh well pays to have the best of both worlds so picking up a dual format player or one of each standalone is the way to go. Or just download HD rips until the wars over.

29.12.2007 00:04 #2

Rudeboi

Originally posted by b18bek9: picking up a dual format player or one of each standalone is the way to goSo your willing to spend $1000 for a dual format instead of buying the winning format or even waiting til the format war is over? In the future, if HD DVD loses, all those HD DVD movies will eventually be made into Blu-ray. And as a plus, the actual blu-ray format won't die for another decade or so because PS3 games are made on it, HD DVD, possibly will when the war is over. I dont think shelling out $1000 for a dual format player makes alot of sense. As well, saying "well LG has a Dual Format player for my computer for only $400". Well does your computer have a good enough video to play HD movies? And a Dual-Core processor is probably needed now, as well as having a widescreen monitor, thats a given anyways.

I say, just wait.

29.12.2007 00:13 #3

juankerr

What's also interesting is that the numbers show that BluRay won the Harry Potter derby. Both the single disc Order of the Phoenix and the Years 1 - 5 Gift set on BluRay outsold their HD DVD counterparts.

This contradicts the numbers that Ken Graffeo put out last week. There's speculation that the numbers he released included units sold to rental chains.

Dave Vaughn leaked the latest numbers from Nielsen yesterday (week ending December 23rd).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=958172&page=9

For the second straight week it's Blu 61: HD 39. Harry Potter on BD again outsold the HD DVD version. Bourne gets great 2nd week sales but a strong showing from The Simpsons plus good catalog sales give Blu the win. Out of the top 20 titles, 14 were BluRay. The HD DVD BOGO's weren't enough. Maybe this week's amazon and Best Buy HD deals could do it?

29.12.2007 00:22 #4

red2tango

Originally posted by juankerr:

What's also interesting is that the numbers show that BluRay won the Harry Potter derby. Both the single disc Order of the Phoenix and the Years 1 - 5 Gift set on BluRay outsold their HD DVD counterparts.

This contradicts the numbers that Ken Graffeo put out last week. There's speculation that the numbers he released included units sold to rental chains.

Dave Vaughn leaked the latest numbers from Nielsen yesterday (week ending December 23rd).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=958172&page=9

For the second straight week it's Blu 61: HD 39. Harry Potter on BD again outsold the HD DVD version. Bourne gets great 2nd week sales but a strong showing from The Simpsons plus good catalog sales give Blu the win. Out of the top 20 titles, 14 were BluRay. The HD DVD BOGO's weren't enough. Maybe this week's amazon and Best Buy HD deals could do it?thank you for clearing that up with the false info we got.hd-dvd is still trailing,despite bluray having no big hits at the moment other than pirates of the caribbean.warner obviously is second guessing their decision.CES will tell all.

29.12.2007 03:42 #5

duckNrun

SO the win is partly attributed to GIVING AWAY FREE (as in free beer) movies. Based upon that logic if Ford gave away a Kazoo with every car they sell you would be able to say that Kazoo's are the biggest selling toy item when in fact logic would dictate this is not so. But when people talk about their beloved HD formats this logic is thrown out the window and the numbers count. lol

Also as others have pointed out here with the number of BD capable hardware out there a win ratio of 61:39 is hardly impressive at all. This equates out to less than a 2:1 lead for a format that has upwards of 8-10x the players out there.

So lets look at it this way (and conservativly even):

Premise:

There are 8M BD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a BD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 10M)
There are 2M HD DVD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a HD DVD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 1.5M)

This means that BD SHOULD be selling at the very least 4 TIMES as many discs as HD DVD. If you reduce the above ratio of 61:39 you come up with BD selling 1.5 times more discs with 4-5x more players in circulation. Another way of looking at it is to say that of all HD players out there anywhere from 10%-25% (more likely at 15%) are HD DVD and that this 10%-25% makes up 39% of all HD movie sales.

This means that while HD DVD has less players in peoples homes those people with HD DVD are buying more movies per player than people with BD players. This is something that should be considered by all the players involved. At this rate if the HD DVD HW sales increased by 1/2 of what is now out there these numbers would significantly become closer if not flip flopped.

One question of interest would be HOW MANY people who own HD players own BOTH formats. For dual format consumers the decision on which disc to buy would more likely come down to firstly the price of the disc in either format and secondly (for a much smaller percentage of users) the extras included in both formats.

Regardless of any of this though to claim that a format with 4-5x the available hardware out there is winning because it sells 1.5 times more movies is hardly the whole picture.

And btw... I own neither format.

29.12.2007 05:13 #6

NexGen76

Originally posted by duckNrun: Also as others have pointed out here with the number of BD capable hardware out there a win ratio of 61:39 is hardly impressive at all. This equates out to less than a 2:1 lead for a format that has upwards of 8-10x the players out there.

So lets look at it this way (and conservativly even):

Premise:

There are 8M BD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a BD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 10M)
There are 2M HD DVD players out there (includes ALL HW capable of playing a HD DVD disc-- actual numbers may be closer to 1.5M)

This means that BD SHOULD be selling at the very least 4 TIMES as many discs as HD DVD. If you reduce the above ratio of 61:39 you come up with BD selling 1.5 times more discs with 4-5x more players in circulation. Another way of looking at it is to say that of all HD players out there anywhere from 10%-25% (more likely at 15%) are HD DVD and that this 10%-25% makes up 39% of all HD movie sales.

There is a reason to BD not having a massive lead look at the HD titles from both formats they aren't putting out no more than 15 to 20 titles a month so there isn't a bigger selection to choose from.CE don't care about this numbers play BS from Toshiba they want to see numbers & how many HD Capable HD units are in house wholes & the bottom line is BD out sold HD-DVD for a hold year without HD-DVD outselling BD for one week 65%BD 35%HD thats strong.Not only that BD has sold better in every country these are just US figures outside the US this really isn't a format war with BD crushing HD in Europe & Jap.

29.12.2007 06:01 #7

hughjars

LMAO

Another desperately weak Blu-ray 'win'.

They have a 10:1+ advantage in the number of players and yet they can't even manage a 2:1 lead in movie disc sales.

Hilarious.

The Blu-ray lead is only 1.56:1 - which incidentally works out to the 'since inception' number too.

It's also a fact that the BDA has sponsored over 20 BOGO sales already in 2007.

HD DVD has just run just 2 - both this month.

You'll find that HD DVD offer a pretty restricted (tho still good) selection on it's BOGO whilst Blu-ray's BOGOs have included huge blockbuster films like the Pirates Of the Caribbean films, Casino Royale, Night At the Museum, X-Men: Last Stand, and many others.
They've also included recent releases like 28 Weeks Later, The Fly, Day After Tomorrow just a mere 2 weeks after their debut.

It must be costing Blu-ray a fortune (and adding costs to an already costly format for the producers).

Only a few weeks to CES 2008.
Can't wait.

29.12.2007 06:23 #8

nobrainer

@ hughjars

totally agree mate over 6 1/2+ million DRM-ray players sold, and less than 1 million hd-dvd players and DRM-ray only manages a pitiful lead, it shows how the general public just dont care about hi-def content and are happy with dvd but out of the two formats ppl that own hd-dvd players purchase more titles per unit than they do for sony's DRM-ray players.

then you have all the bogof (by one get one free) offers that has been a unit fixing strategy since the start with coupons in US ps3's and blu-ray players to enable consumers to get extra titles for heavily reduced prices that were counted towards the total sales, desperation from the MPAA to fix it so their format of choice wins the war because of the anti consumer DRM bundled with Blu-Ray, that the mafia cops want so badly to lock us out of content WE own!

no matter what the news you can be assured of nextgen spinning and cherry picking for sony but what do you expect from a sony blogger!

ppl don't let the MPAA control the hardware as well as the software Blu(DRM)-RAY is all about locking content down, it has the most anti consumer, propertarian, orwellian DRM schemes to date even more invasive that sony's xcp rootkit or sony's secuROM.

@ nextgen

what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart) in the uk stocks any blu-ray titles in store, nor do they stock blu-ray players or ps3's but they do however stock hd-dvd pc's. most retailers other a few in the cities ain't even bothering to stock Hi-Def media as there is not a viable market in the UK yet.

Tor: anonymity online HIDE your IP from the spies, post and browse anonymously! http://www.torproject.org/

The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.

The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX.

29.12.2007 06:36 #9

hughjars

Originally posted by nobrainer: @ nextgen

what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart) in the uk stocks any blu-ray titles in store, nor do they stock blu-ray players or ps3's but they do however stock hd-dvd pc's. - That's one of the funniest claims from the Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub of all.

If high def movie sales (of both formats) are currently tiny in the USA (and, with both formats having less than 4% of total movie disc market sales, they most definitely are) then they are to all intents and purposes invisible in the UK & the rest of Europe.

This is just the Blu-ray gang (once again) trying to (ab)use ratios and percentages to talk up their preferred format.
They steer as far away from discussing any actual numbers sold as they can cos suddenly it exposes their ridiculous exaggeration.

The truth still stands, the existing numbers of discs sold right now are so tiny that any big movement in the market (from the producer end of things) would blow them away very quickly.

We're about to see that as the Blu-ray house of cards begins to tumble.

CES 2008 and the events there will be the first stage in this.
Then the coming $100 Chinese HD DVD players (that will replace those same Chinese producer's/brand's regular DVD players - which are still out-selling both high def formats by a country mile) will be the next really major step that consumers will see.

Blu-ray is set to be nothing more than a stagnating PS3 proprietary format (with relatively tiny amount of additional standalone & PC burner activity glued on).

29.12.2007 07:08 #10

nobrainer

@ hughjars

tesco stock all game machines in store bar the ps3, and the shelf space is dedicated to 360 and wii games, with ds psp and ps2 with a smaller share no HD films just plain old dvd's for as little as �5

the book section is larger than the game section, but i suppose that says something about british ppl over americans, sry america dont mean to stereotype but you keep falling for the Spin and piffle on the tube and iraq is all about OIL ffs please learn history about mesopotamia! read some noam chomsky or such like and become a "god dam commie" or is that enlightened to the central banks control over the government!

http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/

tesco, every little helps!

29.12.2007 07:18 #11

DjDanio

Originally posted by nobrainer:
what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart)... Be honest, you don't really know what you're talking about.

Firstly, Asda = Walmart. And Asda is an awful place, really cheap and nasty.

Secondly, i think it has even been said on here, that blu ray is outselling Hddvd in europe.

Thirdly, There are so few people out there buying HD films it doesn't really matter which one is selling more etc. These sorts of story about blu ray and HD DVD are getting BORING!!!!

29.12.2007 07:29 #12

nobrainer

Originally posted by DjDanio : Originally posted by nobrainer:
@ nextgen

what are you talkin about blu-ray winning in euro, you aint got a clue, not a single tesco(tesco = walmart) in the uk stocks any blu-ray titles in store, nor do they stock blu-ray players or ps3's but they do however stock hd-dvd pc's. most retailers other a few in the cities ain't even bothering to stock Hi-Def media as there is not a viable market in the UK yet.Be honest, you don't really know what you're talking about.

Firstly, Asda = Walmart. And Asda is an awful place, really cheap and nasty.

Secondly, i think it has even been said on here, that blu ray is outselling Hddvd in europe.

Thirdly, There are so few people out there buying HD films it doesn't really matter which one is selling more etc. These sorts of story about blu ray and HD DVD are getting BORING!!!!sry you misunderstood my sentence, yes asda is owned by walmart, but tesco has the market share in the uk as walmart does in america!

the leading supermarket = tesco

this is old data and i would'nt be surprised if now tesco has over 40% market share, i will endeavour to source up to data information for your mince pies!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4694974.stm

SUPERMARKET SHARE
Tesco: 30.6%
Asda: 16.6%
Sainsbury's: 16.3%
Morrison's: 11.1%
Somerfield: 5.4%
Waitrose: 3.7%
Iceland: 1.8%
Source: TNS

http://www.flex-news-food.com/pages/6607..._market_dj.html

Originally posted by above link: 11/01/2007
London, Jan. 10 - Tesco PLC's market share in the U.K. grocery market for the 12 weeks to December 31 has risen to 31.4%, according to Taylor Nelson Sofres World Panel market share data Wednesday.
Daily News Alerts

Asda, a subsidiary of the world's biggest retailer Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) of the U.S., saw its sales increase 5% in the period. Its market share stood at 16.6%.

J Sainsbury PLC (JSAIY) has narrowed the gap on Asda to 0.2%, TNS said. J Sainsbury's market share was 16.4%.

William Morrisons grew at 4%, while Waitrose had an 11% year on year increase, giving the retailer a 3.9% Christmas market share.

Somerfield PLC dipped from 4.1% to 3.9%.

MY POINT WAS: even the leading retailer in the uk does not stock Hi-Def media in any stores nor does it stock PS3's!

29.12.2007 08:33 #13

vinny13

If there's so many Blu-Ray players, why would Blu-Ray be dumped? What would happen to the 6 million or so owners that bought one in the US alone?

Besides, how could HD-DVD possibly win if its been beaten every week of the year, INCLUDING THEIR EXCLUSIVE RELEASES?

Like, some guy has to be damn retarded to go with a format that sells less and will piss of a much larger group. Even when I ask random people at places at FutureShop and BestBuy they all say Blu-Ray is doing much better.

29.12.2007 10:34 #14

nobrainer

@ vinny13

its not about the amount of hardware that will be the deciding factor, its about units sold against the hardware base, so at the moment hd-dvd is the clear leader of sales of hi def media because more ppl that own hd-dvd players actually purchase films which is what the movie industry is about remember, units sold per unit of hardware = �$�$�$�$�$�$�$�$$�$�$�$�$�$�$�$��$�$�$�$ from each person!!!!!!

i would personally rewrite your closing sentence to "DRM-Ray has the potential to do much better" but do ppl purchase the ps3 to watch movies or has sony's (MPAA) anti consumer DRM media lockdown, gamble failed to work?

29.12.2007 11:18 #15

NexGen76

Originally posted by nobrainer: @ vinny13

its not about the amount of hardware that will be the deciding factor, its about units sold against the hardware base, so at the moment hd-dvd is the clear leader of sales of hi def media because more ppl that own hd-dvd players actually purchase films which is what the movie industry is about remember, units sold per unit of hardware = �$�$�$�$�$�$�$�$$�$�$�$�$�$�$�$��$�$�$�$ from each person!!!!!!

i would personally rewrite your closing sentence to "DRM-Ray has the potential to do much better" but do ppl purchase the ps3 to watch movies or has sony's (MPAA) anti consumer DRM media lockdown, gamble failed to work?
Thats got to be the most asinine comment i've heard on this site.CE look at the bottom line Blu-Ray has sold more players & disc than HD-DVD just leave the BS spinning alone.Show me where they haven't.Why would any company go with a format that hasn't outsold its rival in Hardware & Software & has only 35% share of the HD market.

29.12.2007 11:50 #16

Pop_Smith

First, although this may sound weird, I would like to see the sales of Ultimatum, POTC: AWE and the Harry Potter series on vanilla DVD just to get a real picture of how well either format has penetrated the market.

Personally I don't believe that "Free" discs in the BOGO sales should be counted. Sure, it is another disc pushed though but it wasn't actually bought therefore unless the discs are way overpriced Blu-Ray is losing money with every disc (or every couple of discs) sold.

I am not sure if HD DVD had any BOGO sales, although Best Buy did have something in an ad on a BOGO sale for HD DVD, but if you eliminate the "Free" discs from Blu-Ray's side then the actual amount of discs bought is closer to 39:30.5 or ~1.28:1 ratio with HD DVD leading according to the numbers in this news article.

Regardless, it looks like we will have to wait until CES (or way later, possibly never) before a real victor is established in the war to take over vanilla DVD as the chosen format.

Peace

29.12.2007 12:53 #17

hughjars

Originally posted by Pop_Smith: First, although this may sound weird, I would like to see the sales of Ultimatum, POTC: AWE and the Harry Potter series on vanilla DVD just to get a real picture of how well either format has penetrated the market. - High def of both flavours combined is under 4% of the total retail movie disc market.

That really does put the sweeping grand claims of the Blu-ray (we already won) crowd into perspective.

Originally posted by Pop_Smith: Personally I don't believe that "Free" discs in the BOGO sales should be counted. - Well it's a legitimate marketing tactic and consumers can (at least in the short-term) benefit - but I would agree that it ought to be made crystal clear and transparent what is going on and which weeks are not a straight battle (and are effectively 'bought).

Originally posted by Pop_Smith: therefore unless the discs are way overpriced Blu-Ray is losing money with every disc (or every couple of discs) sold. - We already know from what Viacom/Paramount has said that Blu-ray is a more difficult and more costly format to work with and produce.

Unfortunately the Blu-ray gang simply either cannot understand the role costs play in a products profitability
(or they just determinedly ignore that aspect of the business, hence all the focus on the small lead and supposed 'millions' of sales/customers Blu-ray has - which is garbage, the last BDA stats showed 4 million Blu-ray discs in total sold to 2.7 HD DVD).

Originally posted by Pop_Smith: I am not sure if HD DVD had any BOGO sales - This month (Dec 07) HD DVD held their first and second BOGO deals.

Blu-ray has had 20 this year (which is how come they 'bought' the week Transformers appeared etc etc - without the distorting effects of the repeated Blu-ray BOGOs HD DVD has won several weeks this year).

Originally posted by Pop_Smith: Regardless, it looks like we will have to wait until CES (or way later, possibly never) before a real victor is established in the war to take over vanilla DVD as the chosen format.

Peace - Yeah, CES is the beginning of the end and it will gather pace throughout this year.

Inexpensive HD DVD will replace current regular DVD and for much the same money.

Blu-ray is on the way to be a stagnate PS3 game console proprietary format, a potential market of several million still worth selling to but the movie studios will end up following the money and peeling away leaving (in the end) Sony to prop up the more costly (and therefore less profitable) format for as long as they will.

29.12.2007 13:34 #18

sciascia

Quote:
- High def of both flavours combined is under 4% of the total retail movie disc market.
Regardless of the numbers SDVD is putting up, it is going to be replaced, and that is the bottom line. We are not debating the sales of SDVD, infact, they mean nothing in this war. SDVD could start selling hand over fist (which is probably will towards the very end of its life span) but it will still be replaced. I always see you bringing this up but it really means nothing, don't you think?

29.12.2007 14:06 #19

nobrainer

Originally posted by sciascia : Quote:
- High def of both flavours combined is under 4% of the total retail movie disc market.
Regardless of the numbers SDVD is putting up, it is going to be replaced, and that is the bottom line. We are not debating the sales of SDVD, infact, they mean nothing in this war. SDVD could start selling hand over fist (which is probably will towards the very end of its life span) but it will still be replaced. I always see you bringing this up but it really means nothing, don't you think?it shows the purchasing trends, and is very relevant because it shows that ppl don't care about Hi-Def films, because ppl are happy with DVD's contrary to what sony says which is the war is won, but the war hasn't even started and by the time ppl think about changing there will be another format to choose from as technology moves very fast, you know! and in all reality who wants to purchase DRM-Ray films that sony want full control over!

29.12.2007 14:37 #20

ljbanner

Originally posted by vinny13: If there's so many Blu-Ray players, why would Blu-Ray be dumped? What would happen to the 6 million or so owners that bought one in the US alone?

Besides, how could HD-DVD possibly win if its been beaten every week of the year, INCLUDING THEIR EXCLUSIVE RELEASES?

Like, some guy has to be damn retarded to go with a format that sells less and will piss of a much larger group. Even when I ask random people at places at FutureShop and BestBuy they all say Blu-Ray is doing much better.they could go back to playing video games as this is what blu was intended for

29.12.2007 18:02 #21

borhan9

Quote:This upcoming week should be interesting to see considering Amazon and Best Buy have had BOGO sales running on HD DVD titles.I would like to see what happens after this.

29.12.2007 18:58 #22

26r0cK

Since there's so many BOGO wit blu-ray you'd probably think that maybe the price of one Blu-ray movie is actually the amount of 2. So really a Blu-ray movie is about $15 a piece. Producing disc isnt too expensive. and if that were tru then HD-DVD had be rippin many ppl off witout offering alot of BOGO til now lol. Just my thought ehehe XD

29.12.2007 23:17 #23

NexGen76

Originally posted by 26r0cK: Since there's so many BOGO wit blu-ray you'd probably think that maybe the price of one Blu-ray movie is actually the amount of 2. So really a Blu-ray movie is about $15 a piece. Producing disc isnt too expensive. and if that were tru then HD-DVD had be rippin many ppl off witout offering alot of BOGO til now lol. Just my thought ehehe XDLets not forget the week Bourne & Harry Potter launched they both was included for HD-DVD bogo sell & HD-DVD still didn't outsell BD that week minus no BD bogo that week, how much more does Warner & Universal need to make the switch.

29.12.2007 23:22 #24

jove

Originally posted by Rudeboi: Blu-Ray FTWwhat does ftw mean?

30.12.2007 03:54 #25

jove

Damn it. Im tired fo this. The article says Blu Ray still sold more than Hd dvd this week, here comes the fanatism yelling yeah but Sony this Sony that Sony's evil and Toshiba... give it a rest already. Panasonic got more patents we all know that. And also Disney and Fox support it so why I dont see people saying their just as evil as well? It gets tiring after a while to read the same thing over and over of how Sony's got an evil anti consumer plan and got such a tight grip in hollywood that it deliberatly 'forced' Fox, Disney, Apple, Panasonic and all the blu ray exclusives companies, to just release films on Blu Ray...

30.12.2007 04:13 #26

nobrainer

The public domain is a disgrace to the forces of evil says, SONY, DISNEY AND FOX! lets DRM everything and claim rights for 170 years so our culture does not advance unless we get PAID!

Originally posted by nextgen76: Originally posted by 26r0cK: Since there's so many BOGO wit blu-ray you'd probably think that maybe the price of one Blu-ray movie is actually the amount of 2. So really a Blu-ray movie is about $15 a piece. Producing disc isnt too expensive. and if that were tru then HD-DVD had be rippin many ppl off witout offering alot of BOGO til now lol. Just my thought ehehe XDLets not forget the week Bourne & Harry Potter launched they both was included for HD-DVD bogo sell & HD-DVD still didn't outsell BD that week minus no BD bogo that week, how much more does Warner & Universal need to make the switch.lets not forget that >7 million drm-ray players, vs <1 million hd-dvd players and there is only a 60/40 split in sold media nextgen.

imho, both formats should be allowed to continue with studios being forced to make titles equally on both formats and let the public decide not sony and the other DRM loving MPAA, drm-ray supporters

@ jove

FTW = for the win, its mmorpg txt chat but it makes newbs fell like 1337 sauce. (you ever tried googling things)

re: sony evil, sony, disney and fox are the leading companies pushing propertarian, orwellian, anti consumer DRM lockouts and have the most lobbyists pushing congress to tighten the IP laws (DMCA), abolish fair use, criminalise ppl that use or even own software to circumnavigate any form of DRM and protect them from law suits when they run code on ppl's computers that cause damage and threaten your privacy by reporting information back to sony HQ about your computer usage (google: sony xcp).

sony, disney and fox are the MPAA they use piracy to scare monger ppl then make DRM secuROM, xcp and sell it to movie/game/cd makers and get paid from all sides and get fat while its the consumers that lose out as we are told we are pirates by sony for wanting to play our legally purchased cd's on our ipods because sony want 1 licence per device per user to quadruple their profits from each household, kinda like the military industrial complex.

Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing" October 02, 2007

funny look on copywrite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKI_w_VBoTQ

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/29/steal-this-film-part.html

30.12.2007 07:35 #27

hughjars

Originally posted by nobrainer: sony, disney and fox are the MPAA they use piracy to scare monger ppl then make DRM secuROM, xcp and sell it to movie/game/cd makers and get paid from all sides and get fat while its the consumers that lose out as we are told we are pirates by sony for wanting to play our legally purchased cd's on our ipods because sony want 1 licence per device per user to quadruple their profits from each household, kinda like the military industrial complex.

Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing" October 02, 2007

funny look on copywrite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKI_w_VBoTQ

" target="_blank">http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/29/ste...rt.html

- Nice Post.

Too true & very well put nobrainer .

The fact that the PS3/Blu-ray fanclub (cos they have been pulling this kind of sh*t with games on the game console too) refuse to even admit or see this (or, worse, will actually soft-soap & excuse it) and still claim to prefer the (by far) worst case of the 2 competing new high def formats is IMO simply staggering.

The DRM issues alone are IMO a huge reason to have nothing to do with Blu-ray.

HD DVD is by no means perfect either but with AACS broken (and reputedly broken to the extent that any new revisions & changes to it are no longer a problem) it is by far the 'better' of the 2.

The fanclub pretend that this kind of thing will only effect 'pirates' which is, of course, utterly crazy - particularly seeing as how their beloved CE company is staffed, run & directed by the kind of pedantic 'all-legalese-and-zero-common-sense' lunatics who effectively think we are all 'pirates.

But naturally they have nothing but empty platitudes when legitimate owners have 'issues' when equipment that isn't recognised by the current various 'security system' firmwares and so the DRM/'security' stops you using your 100% legally owned stuff.

It's bad enough having the loonies in the CE companies developing and implementing this sh*t without their fanclub actually cheering it on.
It's absolute insanity.

(or rather it would be it wasn't for the fact that some of the fanclub at least are nothing of the sort but are simply here - and in various other places - to try and shape opinion and play-down any awkward comments/stories about their employer......if you really think that's too far-fetched then check out 'phase hydra' and see the ridiculous levels to which those guys have stooped)

30.12.2007 11:59 #28

Franster

As a person who supports both formats (I've got a PS3 and a HD DVD player), I don't see the problem with both of them beating the hell out of 1 another for the benefit of the consumer. I'll take a cheaper product if they fight it out to the bitter end and I hope they do. Why does it matter who really wins as long as the consumer wins in the end?

Both formats have pros and cons, but that's with everything. The average consumer who buys this stuff doesn't give a damn about the evil corporation behind it. Given half the chance, each corporation would fleece you and have you thrown in jail if you told them that they were backing up their movies. But, it's odd since Sony has the hard protection (BD+), that a lot of people are attacking them and saying they're unfair. Unfair is backing up a title from a video store or selling copies of the movie. Protecting your property is quite fair.

30.12.2007 16:17 #29

hughjars

Originally posted by Franster: The average consumer who buys this stuff doesn't give a damn about the evil corporation behind it. - True......right up until that CE corp's layers of pointless 'security' means that they have 'issues' with their own bought and paid for pieces of equipment not working properly with each other.

It's a scam, a gravy-train of BS making some people $ millions and shafting the paying punters.

From HDCP monitors that aren't recognised to general software conflicts to easily defeated and then repeatedly reworked 'security', it's all just anti-consumer BS which in the end is unnecessary and ineffective (it just pi$$es off the consumer, the real industrial 'pirates' got around it all long ago).

.....and what about when they expect you to buy new 'keys' after they stop supplying them FOC, hmmmmm?

Quote:BD-MV playback at HD quality has very strict copy protection integrated and managed by the Advanced
Access Content System License Administrator (AACS LA), and software manufacturers are required to
include the AACS key management in the play back software.
These AACS play back keys are only valid for a predefined and limited period of time. Customers
generally have to buy new AACS keys every 15 months.

With the Plextor PX-B900A/T3KB the customer can playback BD movies produced until April 2009.
To play back movies produced after April 2009, the customer has to purchase a renewal of the key.
http://www.plextor.be/press/datasheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf

Not so many people have woken up to this & are clued in to this yet but if Blu-ray wins this little tussle you better get used to it.

Originally posted by Franster: Given half the chance, each corporation would fleece you and have you thrown in jail if you told them that they were backing up their movies. - Well actually that's not right.

Look at what Warner have been saying lately about how DRM is a counter-productive waste of money and their moves to sell DRM-free music on Amazon.

Originally posted by Franster: But, it's odd since Sony has the hard protection (BD+), that a lot of people are attacking them and saying they're unfair. - It's a purpose designed POS software (with the possibility of infinite variation & rebuilding) coming from Sony (with their track-record).

Yeah, imagine anyone questioning them and that.

Originally posted by Franster: Unfair is backing up a title from a video store or selling copies of the movie. - If only it were that simple.

Drop the "selling" part.
Then drop the copying movies out of a rental store
(who on earth still uses them anyways?)

I don't know anyone who sells copies and I've never sold a copy I've made in my life (and nor do I intend to either).
The only people I know of doing that are not paying customers like maybe you or I but the sort of guys who sell at flea-markets or in bars.

DRM isn't stopping them and pi$$ing me off in a futile attempt to do so is IMO BS.

As far as I'm concerned that is all absurd misdirection anyways, they know the serious 'industrial pirates' are not affected one little bit, it's the likes of you and me that are the real ones who get affected, everytime.
The sad truth is that as far as the nutter element goes "backing up" a copy of what you already own is considered theft - as nobrainer's links show only too clearly.

It's like cops going after the very easy pickings.
It does nothing to stop the serious crimes but it looks good to the people who frame the laws, set targets and do their little charts.

I mind that sort of BS, maybe you don't?

Originally posted by Franster: Protecting your property is quite fair. - Of course it is.

The problem arises over what constitutes 'my property'.

Unless you're one of those DRM/security obsessed nutters who consider that any copy (for "protecting my - bought & paid for - property", right?) is a genuine case of theft.

Those nutcases have no concept (despite pretending otherwise) of either 'fair use' or 'managed copy'.
Every copy is 'theft' according to them.

That's what we're up against and I'm afraid that anyone wheedling around in circles trying to justify this lunacy for those greedy b@stards just isn't convincing anyone.

30.12.2007 20:23 #30

hermes_vb

And they say the war will be over soon. With a 60:40 split there's still a compelling reason to keep on fighting.

31.12.2007 00:34 #31

nobrainer

@ hughjars

RE: warner dropping DRM:

You forget that sony make many forms of DRM and sell it to these companies, where as Warner do not. Sony also a member of AASC LA stand to gain from the resale of aacs HeX codes and with the hacks destroying it even before release expect new codes every 90 days, and if you fail to update your hardware you will be blocked from all media from that point in time onwards!

AACS, HDMI HCDP and DB+ are the answer to the net problem that is impossible to stop so they are going to put DRM into all our hardware making all media content incompatible unless it has their watermark on it.

31.12.2007 06:18 #32

ripxrush

YAWN!..............

lol this is too funny! the same argument EVERY Blu Ray vs HD DVD article! same excuses on both sides! someone works figures 1 say some one else looks @ them another then someone brings PS3 & Xbox in . lol it is just funny! I have an HD DVD player (friend got it) i will probobly have a Blu Ray player in the next year i don't care as long as i get my damn movie in HD!

31.12.2007 21:25 #33

NexGen76

Top 10 Reasons to Buy Blu-ray
Are you leaning Blu-ray or HD DVD in this brewing format war? These ten points make the case that Blu-ray is best.

December 05, 2007 | by Chuck McKenney

Blu-ray vs HD DVD remains one of the hottest topics in the world of consumer electronics. With both sides vying for the top spot, it�s become clear neither will quit until their format is deemed King of High-Def. This can be overwhelming to the average consumer. No one wants to invest in the format doomed for extinction. We reached out to the Blu-ray Disc Association and asked for ten reasons why Blu-ray is best. (In case you missed it, we did the same thing with HD DVD - �Top 10 Reasons to Buy HD DVD�.)

1. Today�s best movies - With support from the 6 of the 8 major Hollywood studios, the biggest hits are on Blu-ray. Through October 2007, 19 of the year�s 20 best selling high definition movie titles are available on Blu-ray Disc - the majority of them available in high definition only on Blu-ray Disc. Titles such as 300, the Harry Potter Series, the Matrix Trilogy are just some of the titles currently available or coming soon to Blu-ray Disc. And, titles such as the Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, the Spiderman Trilogy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Cars and Ratatouille are available in high definition only on Blu-ray Disc.

2. The broadest range in player options - The biggest names in consumer electronics, particularly in DVD and HDTV - Hitachi, LG, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp and Sony - all support Blu-ray Disc, giving consumers a range of hardware choices from their favorite brands. HP, Acer, Sony VAIO, Panasonic, Philips and Pioneer offer consumers an array of desktop, notebook and computer drive choices.

3. Every Blu-ray Disc player delivers full 1080p picture quality, the benchmark for high definition.

4. Blu-ray delivers the best possible picture quality of any high definition source. Because of its superior storage capacity (50GB - 6 times more than dual-layer DVD), Blu-ray Disc can use higher bit rates, which allows pristine video, uncompromised audio quality, and compelling interactive features.

5. It sounds as spectacular as it looks. With support for the latest audio codecs, including Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD Master Audio and uncompressed linear PCM, Blu-ray can deliver true lossless audio so you hear every sound with crystal clarity.

December 05, 2007 | by Chuck McKenney

6. Blu-ray uses BD-J (BD-Java) to create a new entertainment experience. From pop-up and animated menus to picture-in-picture and interactive features right in the movie, Blu-ray brings a new dimension to home entertainment in a way that let�s viewers enjoy the features on their own terms. Enable them when you want to interact with your favorite film or save them for later when you just want to relax and enjoy the film.

7. Blu-ray�s capacity advantage means the high-quality that consumers demand from high definition can be maximized in every area. There is enough room on the disc for a full feature film with the best possible picture quality, 7.1 surround sound lossless audio (with multiple channels) and a host of bonus features, without having to sacrifice in one area to make room for another. And, 50GB is just the beginning. Blu-ray has room to grow as the creative community develops increasingly innovative (and space intensive) content and features.

8. Blu-ray gives gamers a big bang for their buck. Playstation 3 is the only gaming console built on a high definition platform, so every PS3 doubles as a Blu-ray player for your favorite high definition movie titles. With recent price drops and a host of new gaming titles scheduled for release, the PS3 is great for gamers as well as for those interested enjoying great high definition movies.

9. The discs can take a beating. Anyone with kids is painfully aware that DVDs are not always handled with care, causing potential damage and playability problems. Blu-ray Discs have a special hard coating that helps to protect discs from scratches, fingerprints and a myriad of other punishments that kids (and adults) can dish out.

10. Blu-ray is the safe buy. Counting set top players and PS3s, there are more than 3 million �Blu-ray households� in North America alone, and this number grows on a daily basis. On the software side, Blu-ray Disc is the best selling high definition format in the United States by a margin of 2 to 1 thus far in 2007, with a similar sales advantage in Europe and an even greater advantage in Japan. Blu-ray Disc is the safe bet to become the successor to DVD.

Top 10 Reasons to Buy HD DVD
Have yet to pick a side in the Blu-ray/HD DVD format war? Here are ten reasons why you should go with HD DVD.

1. HD DVD offers the high-definition experience at the most affordable price�this holiday season HD DVD players start under $200 with seven free movies.

2. HD DVD boasts six times the resolution and pristine audio quality (up to 7.1 surround sound) compared with standard DVD.

3. A superior audio experience is guaranteed on every HD DVD player because of the format�s mandatory support for next-generation audio technology including Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD. Even if your current home theater sound system doesn�t support the new audio technologies, you�ll still get the best quality audio experience on it because any HD DVD player can decode these codecs.

4. All HD DVD movies are encoded at 1080p so you can enjoy them on any 1080p HDTV or projector, even if you own a 1080i HD DVD player. How? Because the de-interlacing process that produces the �full HD� 1080p picture quality of the source content is handled by the HDTV, rather than inside the player.

5. For gamers, Xbox 360 offers an affordable HD DVD player addition that can be found for as low $169, with at least six free HD DVD movies�one in the box and a mail-in offer for five free flicks.

6. Every HD DVD player is guaranteed to have picture-in-picture and content storage capabilities, along with an Internet connection to deliver innovative web-enabled features that connect your entertainment experience with online communities and special features.

7. Only HD DVD offers combo discs (standard DVD version on one side, high-def version on the other) that can be used in any DVD player throughout the house or even in the car.

8. Today there are close to 400 HD DVD movies to choose from, with titles like Transformers, Shrek 3, The Bourne Ultimatum, and a five-movie Harry Potter box set available this holiday. Some of the leading retailers have started to offer select titles for under $17.

9. You can get HD DVD on PC notebooks from Acer, HP, Gateway, and Toshiba with prices starting below $900. Product plans call for 5 million HD DVD-enabled notebooks expected in the market by the end of 2008.

10. HD DVD is the only next generation high-definition format approved by the DVD Forum, the same organization of companies that brought you the original DVD format.

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/t..._to_buy_blu_ray

HD-DVD point 2,4,5 are laughable.

31.12.2007 21:59 #34

stumpied

@ NextGen76

What on earth does that post prove or add anything of value to this "conversation"?

If you think 2,4,and 5 are laughable for the HDDVD, what does that make all the other "claims" by the Blu Ray side?

That was the most useless and laughable post I have seen to date and shows your obvious bias.

I could care less which side "wins", I just don't understand why people act like they have some vested interest in making their choice be the one that wins.

I'm pulling for HD DVD, but if that doesn't happen, I'll still get up every morning and live my life. I suggest many should do the same already.

31.12.2007 22:18 #35

NexGen76

Originally posted by stumpied: @ NextGen76

What on earth does that post prove or add anything of value to this "conversation"?

If you think 2,4,and 5 are laughable for the HDDVD, what does that make all the other "claims" by the Blu Ray side?

That was the most useless and laughable post I have seen to date and shows your obvious bias.

I could care less which side "wins", I just don't understand why people act like they have some vested interest in making their choice be the one that wins.

I'm pulling for HD DVD, but if that doesn't happen, I'll still get up every morning and live my life. I suggest many should do the same already.I don't see anywhere on this tread were you added anything of value but your ranting & raving this is a Forum.If i was trying to be bias why would i add HD-DVD.This was nothing more than info that was given to that site from each format.Life has nothing to do about posting in a discussion forum its you that need to first learn what a forum is for Second put a hand brake over your mouth before you talk.

31.12.2007 22:43 #36

stumpied

If you're not bias or at least don't want to appear so, then why not point out the laughable points about the BD "superior storage capacity" or the bluray "safe buy" claims? What happens when all those players that are not profile 1.1 compliant are rendered useless?

Just cause you don't see me post a million times don't think i'm not knowledgable on the subject.

I just refrain from posting the same garbage over and over like some people every time they see an article with the words HD DVD or Blu Ray in the title.

To each their own though. . .keep posting what you wish.

31.12.2007 23:15 #37

varnull

F.. or T .. he .. W .. in :lol:

regardless.. hd is still for richs c**** so 95% of the planet really don't give a f***

+140 rp to varnull...

just gotta say.. that's still by far the best sig image on AD

1.1.2008 00:32 #38

Sazaziel

I am so sick and tired of this Blue Ray vs. HD DVD bullshit. From what I remember I bought my HDTV for the enhanced look of my video games not movies. My regular DVDs play fine and are a whole lot cheaper. I already where glasses so why the hell would I be worried about watching an HD movie. But if I had to choose then I'd rather choose Toshiba's HD DVD over Sony's Blue Ray any day. I just can't support those money grubbing bastards over at Sony.

1.1.2008 09:52 #39

hughjars

Wow, I've seen some lame claims in this 'debate' but that little list has to be one of the most laughable.

We're now just a few days away from the start of the end of all this.

Even Sony et al are winding down the rhetoric - and that ought to be indication enough that they know there is bad news coming for them.

Note the Fox senior exec who said after CES 2008 there would be one high def format.

Here is the quote -
Quote:14th Dec 2007:
�The table is probably set for high-def in 2008,� says Dunn. �I think by CES it will be pretty clear there will be one format.�
http://www.variety.com/VR1117977725.html

Note that even tho he is a Fox exec he does not go on to claim that single format would be Blu-ray.

That ought to be hint enough of some of the surprises we have in store during CES 2008 & in the 1st half of 2008 (some deals will not 'go live' until later in the year).

Tough luck Blu-ray/PS3 fans, it's HD DVD that is firmly coming through now.
The decisions have been made and the deals done and it's not looking good for Blu-ray
(no matter how much you want to whine about the retail movie disc sales situation during 2007).

I'm really looking forward to discussing the CES news when it breaks!

1.1.2008 12:37 #40

tester22

I've said it before and I'll say it again...........

BOTH FORMATS ARE DEFINITIVELY HERE TO STAY FOR GOOD PEOPLE!!! Get ready to buy either 1. a blu-ray AND HD-DVD player or 2. a dual format player.

1.1.2008 15:44 #41

vinny13

I don't see any way possible how HD-DVD could win this format "war".It's supported by basically one company. It takes triple layer discs to compete with a dual layer. It has few good exclusives. They're outsold every week. There are far more BR players in homes. I could go on and on with just this basic stuff. I've even noticed that every store I've been to(Wal-Marts, Targets, Futureshops, Best Buys, ect.) have a much larger selection of Blu-Ray titles and few HD-DVD titles.

The only thing going for them is lower production costs, but that's made up for by Blu-ray selling more and more titles.

1.1.2008 20:10 #42

NexGen76

Originally posted by vinny13: I don't see any way possible how HD-DVD could win this format "war".It's supported by basically one company. It takes triple layer discs to compete with a dual layer. It has few good exclusives. They're outsold every week. There are far more BR players in homes. I could go on and on with just this basic stuff. I've even noticed that every store I've been to(Wal-Marts, Targets, Futureshops, Best Buys, ect.) have a much larger selection of Blu-Ray titles and few HD-DVD titles.

The only thing going for them is lower production costs, but that's made up for by Blu-ray selling more and more titles.Bingo ! my friend, i have notice that best buy has put out a notice to all BB store to increase there BD section maybe they know something that we don't.While HD-DVD section don't even cover a half.

1.1.2008 20:30 #43

vinny13

Ya around here they have their own Blu-Ray display stands with little TVs talking about it and it also has just a few HD-DVDs on them because they had nowhere else to put them. The ratio in these stores are like 6:1.

2.1.2008 01:31 #44

tester22

Whatever!, Blu-ray is technologically superior to HD-DVD but they're both extremely COMPARABLE to the practical implementation of the end-user. The end-user wouldn't and shouldn't give a sh*t as long as the format has a large capacity, displays HD in 1080 and is supported for a long time. IF the end-user DOES CARE then they're just being a pain in the ass and looking to pick a fight and bitch about something............which is really nothing.

There are only about 60-70 more titles on Blu-ray than on HD-DVD and both formats have awesome movies. Granted, the selection on one may appeal to the masses a bit more, but this just goes without saying. HD-DVD is much more aggressive in it's marketing campaign and as I said ..............BOTH FORMATS ARE HERE TO STAY BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!

This is not a re-creation of the VHS/BETA issue. Similar but not the same. Now it's effortless to make a hardware player play both formats and thus an easy solution is totally tangible, in fact, PRACTICAL.

2.1.2008 13:27 #45

tester22

Oh........and that whole list is laughably stupid, just like the list creator is I'm sure.

Top 10 reasons to buy HD-DVD??

Gimme an F'en break. None on that list give a reason to buy HD-DVD over Blu-ray so what's the F'en point of making that list. That name should be changed to "Top 10 reasons to go HD" ....................DUMBASS!

2.1.2008 13:35 #46

Sazaziel

Blah Blah Blah....!!! Here we go with idiots arguing on the net again. Point blank CDs are CDs, DVDs are DVDs, etc. I don't give a crap about the format war. As far as I'm concerned you 2 are arguing about a bunch of nothing. Let me put my point across plain and simple.....whether its dvd, hd dvd, or blu ray it's the same movie. Even the old movies remade into the new formats are the same damn movie. Is HD technology for movies a waste of time...yes (in my opinion). It's like watching porn on regular DVD and then watching it in HD..... I can care less about the freckles on her hooters....the point is that it's still a damn recognizable pair of big hooters that turn me on. You guys are arguing like you could recognize a bad boob job in hd or blu ray. My God!!!!

3.1.2008 18:05 #47

juankerr

Dave Vaughn leaked the Nielsen numbers again this time at HD digest:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31587&page=77

For the week ending December 30, 2007:

BluRay - 61
HD DVD - 39

For the third week in a row it's 61:39 in favor of BluRay. That makes it a 2007 sweep for BluRay.

What surprised me is that even with the first 2 spots on the weekly Top 5 PLUS the big amazon HD DVD BOGO PLUS the Best Buy 3 for 2 deal, HD DVD couldn't muster a win.

Quote:
Top 5:

The Kingdom
The Bourne Ultimatum
POTC 3
Simpsons Movie
Rush Hour 3
I guess Dave was correct in suggesting that amazon doesn't move as much HDM numbers as B&M stores thus the limited effect of the BOGO.

Added:

At a later post Dave gave out the week's numbers for HP5 and PE.

Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix
Blu - 58
HD - 42

Planet Earth
Blu - 56
HD - 44

3.1.2008 21:33 #48

eatsushi

Originally posted by juankerr: For the week ending December 30, 2007:

BluRay - 61
HD DVD - 39

For the third week in a row it's 61:39 in favor of BluRay. That makes it a 2007 sweep for BluRay.Actually it's 54 weeks straight for BD including the last 2 weeks of 2006

Originally posted by juankerr: What surprised me is that even with the first 2 spots on the weekly Top 5 PLUS the big amazon HD DVD BOGO PLUS the Best Buy 3 for 2 deal, HD DVD couldn't muster a win.I have a couple of theories:

1. The catalog titles on BluRay are selling extremely well. This negates the strong 1st week sales of The Kingdom and 2nd/3rd week sales of Bourne Ultimatum.

2. A lot of people got PS3's or BD standalones for Christmas and the new PS3 owners are using them to watch BD movies.

I also agree with Dave's theory that amazon's numbers, even with their BOGO's, may not be large enough to sway the Neilsen's. It'll be interesting to see the catalog sales numbers in the next issue of HMM.

4.1.2008 10:47 #49

juankerr

Interesting theories, eatsushi.

Dave also leaked the Top 20 overall bestsellers:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=31587&page=93

1. 300 Blu-ray
2. TRANSFORMERS HD-DVD
3. POTC AT WORLDS END Blu-ray
4. CASINO ROYALE Blu-ray
5. PLANET EARTH HD DVD
6. BOURNE ULTIMATUM HD DVD
7. 300 HD DVD
8. SPIDER MAN 3 Blu-ray
9. PLANET EARTH Blu-ray
10. RATATOUILLE Blu-ray
11. POTC DEAD MANS CHEST Blu-ray
12. DEPARTED Blu-ray
13. HARRY POTTER ORDER OF THE PHOENIX Blu-ray
14. POTC BLACK PEARL Blu-ray
15. LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD Blu-ray
16. BATMAN BEGINS HD-DVD
17. APOCALYPTO Blu-ray
18. HP ORDER OF THE PHOENIX HD DVD
19. FF2 RISE OF SILVER SURFER Blu-ray
20. SIMPSONS MOVIE Blu-ray

Only six of the top 20 are HD DVD - 3 exclusive and 3 dual format.

4.1.2008 13:15 #50

vinny13

This proves that Hughjars logic makes no sense.

4.1.2008 13:18 #51

juankerr

According to Reuters Warner is going BluRay exclusive:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080104/tc_n...QnU3yRg_k2s0NUE

Quote:"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.

Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases.

4.1.2008 16:08 #52

tester22

Ummmmmmm...................a "sweep" as you said 'juankerr' means NOTHING SOLD FOR HD-DVD. Just like a world series 'sweep' means one team wins all. Those numbers are meaningless regarding whether or not one stays or goes. They are both substantial numbers..............too substantial to have one go away.

Besides HD-DVD has not made one single ad that I have ever seen. No commercials no paper ads. Blu-ray has heavily done so and of course they are selling more. It's to be expected by anyone that doesn't have their head up their arse. Fortunately those who do KNOW WHO YOU ARE. They are both here to stay and everyone better get the idea in their head that dual format players or having two players is going to be a necessity.

"Sweep" my ass....................PUTO!

4.1.2008 16:09 #53

juankerr

"Sweep" means 52 weeks for BluRay - zero for HD DVD.

4.1.2008 16:13 #54

eatsushi

Originally posted by juankerr: According to Reuters Warner is going BluRay exclusive:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080104/tc_n...QnU3yRg_k2s0NUE

Quote:"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.

Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases.Here's the article from HD Digest:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/W..._Exclusive/1325

Quote:Breaking: Warner Goes Blu-ray Exclusive
Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 04:01 PM ET

It's official: Warner has announced it will drop its support of the HD DVD format, and will begin releasing its next-gen titles on Blu-ray exclusively.

4.1.2008 16:20 #55

eatsushi

Originally posted by tester22:
"Sweep" my ass....................PUTO!No need for personal attacks.

The Nielsen numbers are released weekly. BluRay won each and every week in 2007 plus the last 2 weeks of 2006.

"Sweep" is the correct term.

4.1.2008 16:24 #56

tester22

This is crap and I will find out EXACTLY what's up with those trumped up 'lists' that you all keep posting. First, NOT A DAMN website has properly or accurately sited Nielsen's supposed "list of high def. DVD sales" and seconds, none of you generally site either. So until someone can actually show ON NIELSEN'S SITE AS TO THE SALES OF ONE VS. ANOTHER, then PIPE THE F' DOWN. I have sent an email and put a call into the director of marketing for Nielsen's Videoscan department and we will truly find out. In the meantime, that BS list that 'juankerr' dropped like a stinking load doesn't seem to be the same as what's on Nielsen's site which are shown as "DVD sales" in general.

1 -- The Simpsons Movie TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX HOME ENT 12-18-2007
2 1 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix WARNER HOME VIDEO 12-11-2007
3 2 Bourne Ultimatum UNIVERSAL HOME ENTERTAINMENT 12-11-2007
4 4 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End DISNEY/BUENA VISTA HOME VIDEO 12-04-2007
5 3 High School Musical 2 DISNEY/BUENA VISTA HOME VIDEO 12-11-2007
6 5 Superbad SONY PICTURES HOME ENTT 12-04-2007
7 -- Underdog DISNEY/BUENA VISTA HOME VIDEO 12-18-2007
8 8 Ratatouille DISNEY/BUENA VISTA HOME VIDEO 11-06-2007
9 7 Planet Earth - The Complete Collection WARNER HOME VIDEO 04-24-2007
10 -- Halloween GENIUS PRODUCTS INC 12-18-2007

4.1.2008 16:35 #57

eatsushi

The DVD sales you listed are regular DVD sales - not high-def media (HD DVD or BluRay). For up to date Nielsen numbers for HD DVD and BluRay subscribe to Home Media Magazine or get their weekly digital edition:

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/

OR watch the weekly numbers as leaked by Dave Vaughn at avsforums or highdefdigest.com.

The problem is they may not mean that much in a few months now that Warner has announced BluRay exclusivity.

4.1.2008 16:41 #58

tester22

And that's BS too...........sweep in one year???????????? Why don't you just sway the facts to favour you all the time like...........in the past 60 minutes, 100 days or 4 full moons ago. Sweep applies to the ENTIRE FRAKKIN' TIME. Up until the end of 2006 or early 2007 (when BD started actually advertising, HD-DVD was doing better and quite well overall. They are BOTH HERE TO STAY and those that honestly believe that if one wins.........then the other will fold and revamp their manufacturing line. ppfffttt. Some people really are twits and good thing they generally don't go into business for themselves.

Ask yourselves this..........If you were President or CEO or inventor of HD-DVD, at 35-40% the sales of a competitor..........would you fold? Yeah....right.......good thing that those who actually say "yes" aren't running Apple, who by the way only has ABOUT 10% of the market.

4.1.2008 16:42 #59

tester22

Originally posted by eatsushi: The DVD sales you listed are regular DVD sales - not high-def media (HD DVD or BluRay). For up to date Nielsen numbers for HD DVD and BluRay subscribe to Home Media Magazine or get their weekly digital edition:

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/

OR watch the weekly numbers as leaked by Dave Vaughn at avsforums or highdefdigest.com.

The problem is they may not mean that much in a few months now that Warner has announced BluRay exclusivity.
Just as I stated in my last comment so READ UP!!! You have proved nothing except that you can't read accurately.

Highdefdigest can't even site the supposed 'figures' from Nielsen and they are by no means a "proven reputable and accurate and indisputable" website. He is a regular guy who has a site for his supposed findings.

I'm not saying one way or another, just saying that there's no documentation from Nielsen.

I'm only saying they're both here to stay.

For the record........I am well aware that BD is outselling HD-DVD but the figures are fudged.

4.1.2008 16:48 #60

vinny13

They arn't both here to stay because they are 2 very different formats even though they produce the same outcome. It's not like DVD-R and DVD+R... I still don't know what the difference is between the 2.

4.1.2008 17:04 #61

tester22

That's why they're both here to stay. Paramount presently only backs HD-DVD and others could change too. Blu-ray requires a complete revamp of the existing manuf'g lines of DVD stamping and therefore that is why some will not go that route.

4.1.2008 17:38 #62

eatsushi

Here's the official announcement from Warner:

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/...1700383,00.html

Quote:In response to consumer demand, Warner Bros. Entertainment will release its high-definition DVD titles exclusively in the Blu-ray disc format beginning later this year, it was announced today by Barry Meyer, Chairman & CEO, Warner Bros. and Kevin Tsujihara, President, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group.

"Warner Bros.' move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term and the most direct way to give consumers what they want," said Meyer. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

Warner Home Video will continue to release its titles in standard DVD format and Blu-ray. After a short window following their standard DVD and Blu-ray releases, all new titles will continue to be released in HD DVD until the end of May 2008.

"Warner Bros. has produced in both high-definition formats in an effort to provide consumer choice, foster mainstream adoption and drive down hardware prices," said Jeff Bewkes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Time Warner Inc., the parent company of Warner Bros. Entertainment. "Today's decision by Warner Bros. to distribute in a single format comes at the right time and is the best decision both for consumers and Time Warner."

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," said Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future."

4.1.2008 17:42 #63

NexGen76

Originally posted by tester22: That's why they're both here to stay. Paramount presently only backs HD-DVD and others could change too. Blu-ray requires a complete revamp of the existing manuf'g lines of DVD stamping and therefore that is why some will not go that route.Dude just kill it.Its over so lets move on numbers isn't important right now because we have gotten the results.So that proved the numbers wasn't fud as you say.

4.1.2008 19:47 #64

binkie7

@tester22
Knock it off and chill. There is no need for personal attacks. Just because they call it a 'format war' doesn't mean to do so literally.

Forum Rules
Do this before posting

4.1.2008 22:42 #65

vinny13

Originally posted by binkie7: @tester22
Knock it off and chill. There is no need for personal attacks. Just because they call it a 'format war' doesn't mean to do so literally.Ya jeez...

5.1.2008 00:51 #66

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