CES 2008: Retailers not ready to declare Blu-ray victory

Regardless of how Sony and the rest of the Blu-ray camp think Warner Brothers' decision to get on board means, according to retailers they haven't won anything yet.

"I don't think we're in a position to go out and declare a winner," said Steve Eastman, Target Corp'svice president of consumer electronics, in an interview. He added that he doesn't believe the majority of consumers are willing to choose either side as long as both exist.

Gary Severson, senior vice president in charge of electronics for Wal-Mart Stores Inc. agrees, saying "If we were able to have one united message and say: 'Here's high definition TV, here's a high definition DVD, here's the medium to play on it,' it's a much cleaner story to customers that the industry can push, that every retailer can push and the customer goes, 'OK I get it.'"

Due to a lack of physical shelves with Limited space to stock the competing formats, online retailers aren't necessarily as concerned as their brick and mortar counterparts. "We don't have to choose," said Paul Ryder, vice president of the electronics store for online retailer Amazon.com. "I don't have to say I don't have enough room on my shelf."

Source: Reuters

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Written by: Rich Fiscus @ 9 Jan 2008 23:27

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20 comments

Ludikhris

I don't think they are right. When you see the majority of movies in one format the decision will become easier. True that consumers will be agnostic for the next few months until it all sets in, but come next christmas season there will be a radical difference.

10.1.2008 01:04 #1

Gradical

agnostic?, not sure that applies, obviously you misread the post

Quote:"I don't think we're in a position to go out and declare a winner," said Steve Eastman, Target Corp'svice president of consumer electronics, in an interview. He added that he doesn't believe the majority of consumers are willing to choose either side as long as both exist. what he means, is that outside the magical land of afterdawn and such sites, out there in the real world, people just dont care that much at HD-DVD or Blu-Ray since theyre fighting for the market, you can compare this to the times that dvd appeared, just because people tend to learn from theyr mistakes, i for one got stuck with a freakin betamax, got that frikin thing called laser disk, allmast wanted to cry when i got an MD player (cry from frustration from the incompatibility of such a gadget), got a sega saturn and a launch day xbox 360 (which of course died)....

long story short, im tired of being riped off either by the most evil or the least evil as some of oure more distinguished debaters in this site name them.

Besides that, you have that the diference from the usually worn up vhs tapes vs the brand new dvdś not just in image but in sound + no rewinding (remember those days lmao just to remember the bitter ladie from the video store charging me for not rewinding hahahaha), it was just way too cool.

Now, i must read thousands of posts in a forum to convince myself either bluray or HD-DVD... mmmm i bet that discourages must of the not so much tech freaks. lets see if it just ever HD gets to dominate the market.

As far as i care, i be a lot more interested in instant streaming technology that would let me see any movie of the big movie studios on demand, i mean just out off nowhere i want to see indiana jones, boom. Maybe i want to see a jackie chan flick, who cares as long as i dont have to drive to the store nor wait 2 days to get my movie, that, if you ask me would win any format war dvd, HD-DVD, blu-ray.

10.1.2008 01:25 #2

ripxrush

I agree with "gradical" I still have a few Laser disks in my closet that i found a few weeks ago! lol... Anyways I also agree with the stores a lot of people who are not into the newest tech stuff dotn care who wins for any reason they are the ones that need the decision madfe for them! My wife dosent know the difference between Bluray & HD-DVD just that the 360 has an HD add on & the PS3 comes with a HD player in it! not knowing the differences. I thought i had explained but the other day she asked if our HDTV is useless cause HD_DVD;s aren't doing so good! This is just 1 example but i can tell you that out of approx 20 co workers MAYBE 2 know that there is a difference & i bet a lot of people don't know (i know at least 1) that don't know that you have to have an HD DVD player to play HD DVD's not a SD DVD player! So until there i sonly 1 & less & less movies are being released on SD DVD there will always be some who dotn want or understand the HD wars! I know people who didn't get a DVD player till the movie that came out only came out on DVD that tye wanted. THEN & only Then did they get a DVD Player!

10.1.2008 02:03 #3

nobrainer

In the uk our largest retailer is Tesco, they have over a 35% share of the market and they currently do NOT stock any blu-ray's or hd-dvd's or ps3's in store, so this just shows how many ppl actually care about downgrading their equipment to hobbled by DRM junk. Thanks MPAA for killing of a format because of your goal to licence, and not SELL all media.

The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.

The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX.

10.1.2008 04:16 #4

Shegax

This is a big DUH! look the retailers have to sell their stock of players and Hd dvds, besides since when did retailers decide what the next format was going to be? This is my conclusion, the stores would rather not get the word out that HD dvd is going under. (perceivably at least) So your average customer isn't really in the know, and they don't come as we do and comment on threads such as these. Keep in mind that we are on top of the tech news all the time, and we can't expect everyone else to be the same way. The retailers count on this and know average consumers talk about things and hear things first from their friends, and word of mouth. So it will be a while, before they get the idea that HD dvd is going under, in the meantime they spend and wasted a lot of money for the new age dvd players that will not play a format that is supported in the future.

10.1.2008 06:20 #5

juankerr

I read the original news article and I see that the general message is:

Retailers want to have only one HD format.

This decreases confusion, simplifies inventory, and makes it easier to push HDM. See what the Best Buy, Circuit Cuity, and WalMart have to say:

http://www.reuters.com/article/technolog...lBrandChannel=0

Quote:"We are very excited to see progress of any type, and we see this as significant progress," said Circuit City Chief Executive Officer Phil Schoonover at CES.

Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson also said at the conference that the decision makes it "a lot easier to see the likelihood that we get to one format, and it makes it easier for us as retailers to help push it to that one format."

"If we were able to have one united message and say: 'Here's high definition TV, here's a high definition DVD, here's the medium to play on it,' it's a much cleaner story to customers that the industry can push, that every retailer can push and the customer goes, 'OK I get it,'" Wal-Mart's Severson said

"It would be our hope that by this Christmas there would be a clearer choice for the customer, instead of battling back and forth" between the formats, said Gary Severson, senior vice president in charge of electronics for Wal-Mart Stores Inc's (WMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research) U.S. stores.

10.1.2008 07:01 #6

Amir89

Irregardless of whether the general public is aware of it or even cares, Blu-Ray has won.

70% of the home video market=Lion's Share. It's over. They have technically won, it'll just take some time before you start seeing more and more Blu-Ray titles and players flooding the market. For now it seems the formats are neck and neck, but it'll change shortly.

Sure it takes time for newer formats to pick up and prices to fall, but Blu-Ray won't require the 3-4 years DVD's needed to become a recognised format.
Everyone has a PC and DVD Player these days.
Most of the general public is much more aware of optical technology than people were in the 1990's, and thanks to strong campaigning from Sony (PS3), movie studios and in general, word of mouth. I'd say give it a few more months and you'll see Blu-Ray start to take a dominant stance.

10.1.2008 07:13 #7

odb992001

The only reason sony has all the movie studio backing blu ray is because they paid the big studio's to came to blu ray. If sony blu ray and hd dvd let us the customers choose, we would have the say so of who wins. But sony don't want that to happen again. cause of betamax and mini disc, so sony came out paying the top movie studio's. I don't trust sony, they are going to take control of the software and the hardware and sat the price high for the movies, which is high already blu ray movie 49.99 that is crazy just for one damn movie, and u see they don't want to come down on there prices for the blu ray player or the ps3. if it wasn't for hd dvd sony player would still be 800 to 1000 dallors. sure blu ray can hold 50GB but how many blu ray movie use 50GB. it's good to have all that space but people think if i go with blu ray more space means the movies will look better than hd dvds 30GB. NO it won't, blu ray use 10 year old mpeg2. don't let sony fool u, sony tells u all is s**t and people run with it. HD DVD give u a combo disc, one side hd the other side SD movie and thats not freakin 49.99. I went to bestbuy and got a three pack hd dvd for 44.99 three good hd movies. four brothers, shooter, and the italian job. people don't let sony control this. There tv's and everything is to expensive. I have one more thing to say about sony, i use to buy there stuff. But when it came to get the ps3 4 to5 months before it came out. The ceo of sony said the ps3 will be expensive so if our fans of the ps2 want's to get the new ps3. the will have to do some OVERTIME at work. That there was a slap in the face to me, U don't tell your fan of your console no dumm shit like that. and thats why the ps3 is not doin good. Xbox360 for me. people don't let them control us with this blu ray, Let us choose what we want and not sony putting talk in our ears. Take the time to read up information on both BLU RAY and HD DVD

10.1.2008 10:13 #8

ikari

I don't understand why people would be surprised if Sony did pay off Warner to switch formats. Isn't Big business mentality basically, "What is in it for me" and if it was money and/or lower authoring costs for Warner, so be it.

An excellent example of this is cars and their need for fossil fuels. There have been 100's if not 1000's of alternatives and variations of those alternatives to get cars off of fossil fuels. Why haven't we? <Conspiracy Theory> Because the Oil Industry doesn't want us to. They will buy political power and try to stop anyone that tries. </Conspiracy Theory> It is no different with Sony.

Besides, I could be wrong, but I heard that there was another HD format in the works to be released in 2009. Sadly, I am sure the HD Format War is far from over. HD DVD/Blu-Ray is just the beginning. The victims will be us, the consumer.

10.1.2008 10:48 #9

vinny13

Meh... In a couple months they'll pick a definite winner if they want to get anywhere.

10.1.2008 13:06 #10

tester22

Quote:agnostic?, not sure that applies, obviously you misread the post

Quote:"I don't think we're in a position to go out and declare a winner," said Steve Eastman, Target Corp'svice president of consumer electronics, in an interview. He added that he doesn't believe the majority of consumers are willing to choose either side as long as both exist. what he means, is that outside the magical land of afterdawn and such sites, out there in the real world, people just dont care that much at HD-DVD or Blu-Ray since theyre fighting for the market, you can compare this to the times that dvd appeared, just because people tend to learn from theyr mistakes, i for one got stuck with a freakin betamax, got that frikin thing called laser disk, allmast wanted to cry when i got an MD player (cry from frustration from the incompatibility of such a gadget), got a sega saturn and a launch day xbox 360 (which of course died)....

long story short, im tired of being riped off either by the most evil or the least evil as some of oure more distinguished debaters in this site name them.

Besides that, you have that the diference from the usually worn up vhs tapes vs the brand new dvdś not just in image but in sound + no rewinding (remember those days lmao just to remember the bitter ladie from the video store charging me for not rewinding hahahaha), it was just way too cool.

Now, i must read thousands of posts in a forum to convince myself either bluray or HD-DVD... mmmm i bet that discourages must of the not so much tech freaks. lets see if it just ever HD gets to dominate the market.

As far as i care, i be a lot more interested in instant streaming technology that would let me see any movie of the big movie studios on demand, i mean just out off nowhere i want to see indiana jones, boom. Maybe i want to see a jackie chan flick, who cares as long as i dont have to drive to the store nor wait 2 days to get my movie, that, if you ask me would win any format war dvd, HD-DVD, blu-ray.
I was thinking the same thing about "agnostic" but then looked up the word. Ludikhris must have just learned its 'other' meaning and is all happy-go-frakkin'-lucky about it and showing it off to make himself look smart. He's also the kid in H.S. class that raised his hand every time he knew an answer just so the other kids would know he knows and therefore think he is smart. It's 'other' definition "technically" means **non committal or uncertain**. The definition that us 'normal' people are more familiar with **one who believes it impossible to know if GOD exists**...................TERRIBLE choice of word(s)

"Good for you Lukikhris...............now put your hand down."

10.1.2008 16:48 #11

Ludikhris

Okay... actually I was using it as a metaphor.... general consumer believes in no HD-God yet because they don't believe proof exists yet. Proof will exist soon though. I guess they just have another meaning of the word that works in place of the metaphor... I'll put my hand down now.

11.1.2008 01:42 #12

LOCOENG

tester22, you just got a two week vacation for your flaming of others.

Don't forget about your Buddies The rules ~ http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487

11.1.2008 04:11 #13

Gradical

hahaha its getting really fun to post in afterdawn lately, ican even feel the adrenaline everytime i post anything, with all the bans lately, cant blame the moderators though, anyone can see how any of this comment can make some people flip out

11.1.2008 12:38 #14

Amir89

People back formats like English soccer hooligans back Manchester..
Time to tone down the aggressiveness people.

Current Specs:
Intel82801BA Mobo, Intel D 945G @3.4Ghz, 2x2Mb L2 Cache, 1Gb DDR2 SD RAM @677Mhz, 250Gb WD Caviar @10,000Rpm, GeForce7600GT 512MB GDDR2, ASUSTek Tiger Digital/Analog TV Tuner, Samsung SyncMaster941BW 19" LCD, LG H20L DVD�R/RW DL LightScribe, LG GSA-4167B DVD�R/RW DL, Logitech Z-5500 505Watt 5.1 Surround

12.1.2008 08:51 #15

borhan9

Well things are heading for a blu-ray victory, however we will really find out the victor sometime this year. Retailers will make the final decision. It will be in regards to what will be the most cost effective format to run.

12.1.2008 23:40 #16

nobrainer

Originally posted by borhan9: Well things are heading for a blu-ray victory, however we will really find out the victor sometime this year. Retailers will make the final decision. It will be in regards to what will be the most cost effective format to run.It's the MPAA deciding on DRM-Ray not consumers, because of the extensive DRM structure over HD-DvD but its consumers who will decide the ultimate outcome, and its heading towards DVD and the next format winning.

solid state is just around the corner and SD is a lot cheaper that any DRM-Ray or Hd-DvD media!

BD+ has not been compromised, yet
Originally posted by link: Despite SlySoft announcing that BD+ was compromised, and promising an update to its AnyDVD HD software, -- which enables you to rip a Blu-ray discs -- here we are a few months later and the latest is that SlySoft recommends that you buy HD DVD. But with Warner recently going blu, a question at the Blu-ray press conference was "did BD+ have anything to do with their decision?" And while Warner's answer was "no", afterwards it was brought to our attention by a Fox employee that BD+ has not been compromised. But, if that's true, then where do these HD Fox titles distributed via illegal means come from? The situation is actually hilariously ironic, as in love with BD+ that Fox seems to be, high quality transfers of their movies still make it onto the internet because of the European releases of HD DVD -- not distributed by Fox and thus not Blu-ray exclusive -- are only protected with AACS. So if you think about it, without BD+, users would have to buy Fox titles to get them on their computer for other uses, but as it stands, it makes more sense for them skip laying down any cash and download the movies instead, nice job guys.

Anyway remember the last Hi-Def War sony claimed victory of! Toshiba�s "DVD-Audio" vs Sony�s "Super Audio CD"

.
There is an interesting read about Drm-Ray, and how older Drm-Ray stand alone players are being made obsolete because of Profile 1.1 and 2.0 being incompatible over at beta news!

CES Trend #1: If the format war is over, what has Blu-ray really won?

Originally posted by hyperlink: But ideally, technology wars should be decided on the sole basis of a product's ability to meet the need of its users. And here, Blu-ray and HD DVD each have their advantages and disadvantages.

Blu-ray, for example, is now in the throes of moving from Profile 1.0 to the incompatible Profile 1.1 to Profile 2.0, a format which is expected to introduce still further incompatibilities.

And although Sony and its partners stand to pick up additional revenues from users who decide to upgrade to newer Blu-ray drives, there's every possibility that some of them might migrate over to the HD DVD side, too.

Moreover, Blu-ray products are reportedly more costly to make than those that follow the HD DVD format -- and in many cases today, the price of a Playstation doesn't even cover Sony's manufacturing costs.

So if Blu-ray is in fact going to win the war, it'd really better happen fast, to prevent the kind of price erosion that might interfere drastically with production and profitability.

Blu-ray: Early adopters knew what they were getting into
Originally posted by linky: Blu-ray may have taken a commanding lead in the next-generation format war, but the group has a big problem looming: early supporters of the format will be left out in the cold when the Blu-ray Disc Association introduces BD Profile 2.0

Unlike HD DVD, which mandated features such as local storage, a second video and audio decoder for picture-in-picture, and a network connection from the very beginning, the companies behind Blu-ray took a different approach. Initial hardware players lacked these capabilities in order to keep costs down.

In addition, the BD-J interactivity layer, based on Java, has continued to evolve since the introduction of Blu-ray Profile 1.0. This means that early players may have a buggy implementation and perhaps more importantly, they are not powerful enough to play the latest films properly.

When BetaNews asked developers of BD Live whether they were concerned about a backlash from early adopters who supported the format from the beginning, we were told: "They knew what they were getting into."

When BetaNews asked why these manufacturers rushed out players that were not fully capable and potentially buggy due to their BD-J implementation, the Blu-ray partner pointed blame across the room to HD DVD. "We should have waited another year to introduce Blu-ray to the public, but the format war changed the situation," he said. HD DVD was already coming and the BDA had no choice but to launch Blu-ray.
so basically if your purchase Drm-ray player sub 2.0 it might not work in the future when another ver arrives and the great quote "They knew what they were getting into" will be said again OMG........

The BPI Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.

The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.

The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX.

13.1.2008 06:20 #17

vinny13

Ok we get the point.

(+[PSP]%) = 3.52M33-4

"I get no respect, I tell ya!"

13.1.2008 09:53 #18

timmybear

we're in the digital age of ipod and such, all movies will soon be available by download in HD to watch on our divx players. ha

15.1.2008 12:40 #19

eatsushi

Originally posted by timmybear: we're in the digital age of ipod and such, all movies will soon be available by download in HD to watch on our divx players. haDigital SD or HD downloads and VOD will directly compete with rentals (Blockbuster and Netflix). There are people who will still want to have the actual disc in their hands. I for one wouldn't want my rights to watch a movie stored in a server somewhere.

Steve Jobs just outlined the new Apple TV model in his Macworld keynote. HD movie rentals are $3.99 for catalog titles and $4.99 for new releases. You have 30 days to start watching but once you do you have only 24 hours to finish the movie. You can watch it as often as you like in that 24 hours. After that the movie is deleted from your device.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/live-...e-jobs-keynote/

As you can see, this is a direct competitor to movie rentals not for movie purchases. This is why Netflix has started a similar service.

15.1.2008 13:09 #20

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