AfterDawn: News

Steve Jobs calls Zune and Blu-ray "failures"

Apple CEO Steve Jobs was recently interviewed by CNBC's Jim Goldman and he had a few bold statements to make. For one he called rival Microsoft's Zune media player a "failure" as well as proclaiming that although Blu-ray may have won the format war over HD DVD it had most likely lost the HD content distribution battle.

When Goldman asked Jobs if he had heard Microsoft executive Robbie Bach's comments that the new Zune would be a worthy alternative to the iPod line Jobs went off. "Was he inebriated? Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?" he added.



When the discussion moved onto Blu-ray he said he believed that the format had won the war over HD DVD but that both formats would lose to HD downloads. Although he is one of the more prominent people to proclaim that, analysts have repeatedly said that the battle only accomplished one thing: Making enough time for streaming HD to become a viable option.


Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 18 Jan 2008 18:45

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• 52 comments

• hughjars

  It took Apple 3 months to pass Blu-ray's movie sales numbers with it's download service.
  
  Their customers obviously couldn't care less about the Apple movies being 720p & not having that bloated waste that is uncompressed audio.
  
  So much for those who claimed downloads wouldn't be big.

  18.1.2008 18:59 #1

• AXT

  He is a cocky bastard thats for sure. How can you call the Zune 2 a failure when it offers more that the iPod for the same price. Even the Zune 1 was not half bad in term of what it offered over the iPod. There is a horde of other MP3 player that are better than the iPod. Apple better study what happened between AMD and Intel carefully if they don't want M$ to do the same thing to them.

  18.1.2008 19:20 #2

• dragnandy

  i never really liked anything from apple. only exceptions are macs,which i think are ok, but i would still prefer pcs. Apple ipods are only on the top of the music players because they advertise it. There are hundreds of better alternatives than ipods that offer more and are cheaper.

  18.1.2008 19:35 #3

• juankerr

  hughjars' post needs some clarification.
  
  Although Apple TV is capable of 720p output, the movies on iTunes store are still only DVD quality. (I personally prefer the 720p content from XBox Live.)
  
  Jobs revealed at Macworld this month that a new HD movie "rental" service will become available LATER this year for your Apple TV box. You can "rent" HD movies for $4 for catalog titles and $5 for new releases. You have 30 days to view the movie but once you start it you have 24 hours to watch it as often as you want. After that it's deleted from your box.
  
  I see download services such as Apple TV as direct competitors to the large rentral chains such as Netflix and Blockbuster. (This is why Blockbuster's stock dropped on Wall Street when the new Apple TV services were announced.) Downloads won't be competing with actual disc sales but against movie rentals.
  
  There are people who still want the physical media in their hands. These people prefer not to have their rights to watch a movie stored in a server somewhere.
  
  http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/more-...vie-hd-rentals/
  
  Quote:It wasn't exactly crystal clear during Steve's keynote today, but apparently, there's a fair bit of red tape attached to these movie rentals. First off, since the Apple TV hardware is remaining the same, users can still only expect 1,280 by 720 resolution on the high-end, and although 100 HD movies are reportedly ready to be viewed, not a single TV show can say the same. Furthermore, a note at the bottom of the Apple TV's revised tech specs points out that "Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound is not available with all HD rentals," so there's that. We've also learned that HD movie rentals will be available exclusively through the Apple TV, and considering that only rentals made from iTunes can be moved to other devices, any downloads originating from the Apple TV (including everything in high-definition) won't be making their way onto your iPod, iTunes library, etc. Depressing, we know.

  18.1.2008 19:36 #4

• Gehnma

  Funny thing is ZD net has an artical relating to this...
  [url=http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959&tag=nl.e622][/url]
  Its a big piece of crap. Who wants media that is not on some sort of hard copy... disc or any other format. I don't want to DL purely digital video, I want a hard copy. Same reason totally digital software DL's havent completely taken off. People want that extra insurance of an actual item in hand.
  
  F*ck these guys I'm tired of thier rants about pure digital DLed media.

  18.1.2008 19:55 #5

• aj123

  Originally posted by Gehnma: Funny thing is ZD net has an artical relating to this...
  [url=http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959&tag=nl.e622][/url]
  Its a big piece of crap. Who wants media that is not on some sort of hard copy... disc or any other format. I don't want to DL purely digital video, I want a hard copy. Same reason totally digital software DL's havent completely taken off. People want that extra insurance of an actual item in hand.
  
  F*ck these guys I'm tired of thier rants about pure digital DLed media.you can just download the media onto a usb drive, or something simialr.
  also, its better then the hassle of having and taking care of hard copies.

  18.1.2008 20:32 #6

• WierdName

  What a completely unjustifiable statement. For him to claim that the Zune and Blu-ray are failures is quite ironic too. I mean, first, who is he to talk about the Zune?! I have had a 6Gen iPod for just a little while and I've already had problems with it not playing songs or skipping after playing partway. Also, it turns out that this is by no means an isolated incident. Apparently, MANY people have had this problem even with songs purchases FROM iTUNES! It turns out that the problem is the song file itself and the only way to fix it is just get another copy of the song. And yet, the official Apple support forums says many times that you should check that you have updated iTunes and firmware, format and re-copy everything back to it, etc. For the several hundred price tag, the thing should be PERFECT. Instead, it just seems to be an extremely overpriced piece of hardware that is flawed just as the next piece. Then, he claims that Blu-ray is a failure. I would like to know what successful HD media he has put out. I mean, for him to be bashing on what he thinks sucks, where's his physical product? Sure he has less than perfect downloadable content, but where is his physical disk medium?
  // End rant

  18.1.2008 20:35 #7

• gallagher

  Quote:Then, he claims that Blu-ray is a failure. I would like to know what successful HD media he has put out. I mean, for him to be bashing on what he thinks sucks, where's his physical product? Sure he has less than perfect downloadable content, but where is his physical disk medium? His physical medium is Blu-ray. Remember, Jobs is the largest single stockholder of Disney, which backs Blu-ray.
  
  So if Jobs didn't like Blu-ray, he sure didn't show it with Disney fully backing it and shutting HD-DVD out. Probably did it just to stand against Microsoft.

  18.1.2008 20:40 #8

• chaos_zzz

  Quote:Originally posted by Gehnma: Funny thing is ZD net has an artical relating to this...
  [url=http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959&tag=nl.e622][/url]
  Its a big piece of crap. Who wants media that is not on some sort of hard copy... disc or any other format. I don't want to DL purely digital video, I want a hard copy. Same reason totally digital software DL's havent completely taken off. People want that extra insurance of an actual item in hand.
  
  F*ck these guys I'm tired of thier rants about pure digital DLed media.
  
  you can just download the media onto a usb drive, or something simialr.
  also, its better then the hassle of having and taking care of hard copies.dude hoe many people will be smart enough to transfer hd content??
  i guess not much cuz let's be honest most ppl when it comes to tech need a manual every step of the way
  
  what could u do use a external hd? or some big flash drive? and then what u don't connect a Hard drive to a Tv, face it hard copies are way better when it comes to enjoying them

  18.1.2008 21:31 #9

• error5

  Originally posted by hughjars: Their customers obviously couldn't care less about the Apple movies being 720p & not having that bloated waste that is uncompressed audio.I wonder how you could make such a sweeping statement at this time.
  
  The high def 720p movie download/rental service for Apple TV was just announced at Macworld on the 15th (3 days ago) and the software upgrade to access this service won't be available for another 2 weeks.
  
  http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/live-...e-jobs-keynote/
  
  You're comparing a digital download service that hasn't launched yet to an HD medium that has been selling for more than a year.

  18.1.2008 22:13 #10

• SProdigy

  Ugh, now we have Apple haters to add to the MS, Sony, etc...
  
  I've owned 3 different iPods, including the Mini, Nano 2nd Gen and Video. (First 2 were for working out and the other for holding ALL of my music.)
  
  I think the biggest problem with the iPod is the learning curve, which is awkward, but not steep. It does not offer your typical volume or on/off buttons, but once the consumer "learns" how to use it, there's no going back. Apple typically find the best way to mesh hardware with software, and the iPod is a rousing success BECAUSE OF iTunes.
  
  Of you that own a Zune, how do you like the WMP11 ripoff ZunePlayer? I'm a MS fan/defender of software, but WMP and ZunePlayer are just to cumbersome compared to iTunes, which thinks for you.
  
  And the Zune cannot compare to the iPhone/Touch models. Over the holidays an uncle of ours got a Nano for the kids and Touch for himself so he could listen to his music and browse the web with WiFi. The experience went something like this: "How do you turn this on? Oh... How do you unlock... *slides finger on "button"* Oh... wow, that is really neat. Hey check this out everyone..." and the learning experience grows and grows. He's never ripped a CD in his life, but in minutes, he popped one in his PC, fired up iTunes and had it on his iPod with no hassle at all.
  
  I'm not totally knocking the Zune, as it is a clever little device with nice features, but there are lots of other junk players out there, and when it comes to 3rd party accessories, you're going to have a tough time finding them for anything but the iPod. The other uphill battle for the Zune is the rabid Apple loyalists who will buy anything Job's can slap into metrosexual-looking, contemporary packing. In that regard, Steve can be as conceited as he would like to.
  
  (Leaves floor open to Blu-Ray fanatics to take over.)

  19.1.2008 00:27 #11

• ChiknLitl

  Quote:Originally posted by hughjars: Their customers obviously couldn't care less about the Apple movies being 720p & not having that bloated waste that is uncompressed audio.I wonder how you could make such a sweeping statement at this time.
  
  The high def 720p movie download/rental service for Apple TV was just announced at Macworld on the 15th (3 days ago) and the software upgrade to access this service won't be available for another 2 weeks.
  
  http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/live-...e-jobs-keynote/
  
  You're comparing a digital download service that hasn't launched yet to an HD medium that has been selling for more than a year.I'm not sure but I thought he was being sarcastic. Doh!

  19.1.2008 00:42 #12

• WierdName

  Originally posted by SProdigy: Ugh, now we have Apple haters to add to the MS, Sony, etc...
  
  I've owned 3 different iPods, including the Mini, Nano 2nd Gen and Video. (First 2 were for working out and the other for holding ALL of my music.)
  
  I think the biggest problem with the iPod is the learning curve, which is awkward, but not steep. It does not offer your typical volume or on/off buttons, but once the consumer "learns" how to use it, there's no going back. Apple typically find the best way to mesh hardware with software, and the iPod is a rousing success BECAUSE OF iTunes.
  
  Of you that own a Zune, how do you like the WMP11 ripoff ZunePlayer? I'm a MS fan/defender of software, but WMP and ZunePlayer are just to cumbersome compared to iTunes, which thinks for you.
  
  And the Zune cannot compare to the iPhone/Touch models. Over the holidays an uncle of ours got a Nano for the kids and Touch for himself so he could listen to his music and browse the web with WiFi. The experience went something like this: "How do you turn this on? Oh... How do you unlock... *slides finger on "button"* Oh... wow, that is really neat. Hey check this out everyone..." and the learning experience grows and grows. He's never ripped a CD in his life, but in minutes, he popped one in his PC, fired up iTunes and had it on his iPod with no hassle at all.
  
  I'm not totally knocking the Zune, as it is a clever little device with nice features, but there are lots of other junk players out there, and when it comes to 3rd party accessories, you're going to have a tough time finding them for anything but the iPod. The other uphill battle for the Zune is the rabid Apple loyalists who will buy anything Job's can slap into metrosexual-looking, contemporary packing. In that regard, Steve can be as conceited as he would like to.
  
  (Leaves floor open to Blu-Ray fanatics to take over.)Wow, so many comments filling head... gonna... explode. I guess I'll just leave it to I have had a very bad experience with iTunes. The whole "thinking for you" is extremely annoying to me because it just doesn't do what I want it to do. Not to mention it locking up every time you connect/disconnect your iPod. Furthermore, the mindset that the iPod is an extension of your library is the exact opposite of my mindset. The reason I have an iPod is so I can put all my stuff on the iPod without having to let it take up space on my computer. The thing is that I just expect more from the product that cost way more than other players of the same quality. iTunes just seems to expect the user to do what it wants to do. Sure nothing is perfect, but I just don't like Jobs acting like his whole line of products is superior to everything else.

  19.1.2008 00:42 #13

• vinny13

  Quote:Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?Nope... My friends don't even know what a Zune is. They all have iPods,even the guys that don't listen to music :S
  
  Zune isn't going to get anywhere unless they start advertising like Apple(on a bigger scale). They gotta get "the word" out better.
  
  I myself have a 30GB Video and it was a little odd ad first, but now it's all I know. They aren't cheap but it's not like they're crap. I really like mine anyways(except for the HDD part, oh well). I need a bigger one now :P
  
  Oh, and if you're going to use iTunes, use it on OS X if ever possible... On my Mac partition it runs very fast and stuff and on all of my PCs including the other half of my iMac it runs like gabbage. They've never been able to get it right, for me anyways. I'm pretty sure you all knew that by now though right?

  19.1.2008 00:47 #14

• Markman29

  Apples "HD" content still looks like crap compared to bluray on my tv so unless they can magically make movies in 1080p that would be a decent size for downloading, i wouldnt call bluray a complete failure.

  19.1.2008 00:58 #15

• DDR4life

  @SProdigy
  Quote:I'm not totally knocking the Zune, as it is a clever little device with nice features, but there are lots of other junk players out therelol. love that great "back-handed" compliment.
  Seriously, though, I received a Zune for Christmas, and I'm totally enjoying it.

  19.1.2008 04:06 #16

• rosedog

  DL=DRM'd crap. Anyone touting this as "the way" needs their heads checked. But then again Jobs and his minions(fanboys) only want this because they have no other way to compete. Then again why are they trying to compete? They're nothing more that a greedy middle man who provides you with nothing more than LIMITED content.
  
  JOBS STFU and go make me an apple pie. I can't wait till I read the headline that Amazon.com over takes itunes.

  19.1.2008 04:31 #17

• OFI

  Meh I love my Zune 1, people ask when they see it if it is an Ipod, I just say no it's like an Ipod, does all the same stuff but at half the price :P

  19.1.2008 04:34 #18

• nervuli

  Those peeps who want to rent actual discs do you like to watch and listen skipping films and sounds too? I wouldn't like to rent a movie and see how the disc is destroyed with scratches.
  
  For a downloadable movie it doesn't matter if the movie is rent like 200 times it's still in same mint condition it was in the first place.
  
  It's also cheaper and faster too for instance if you need a car to rent movies.

  19.1.2008 06:08 #19

• rainofire

  Downloading things has a limit. My computer doesn't only hold videos, it also holds files, music, picture and programs. Meaning I wouldn't have enough space for HD movies, well yea I can buy a new HDD, but that like $250 for a 500gb, and HD movies have pretty BIG sizes. Plus the videos also have prices. An I don't know what is the average size for 1080p videos, but I'm sure their above 4gb. To me thats pretty big.
  
  And how LONG will it take to download something that big? 4-6 hours if you have internet connection as fast as japan. An average person would rather have a hard copy. And blu-ray has a scratch proof surface,so it won't get damage that easily. And I only know one person that has a zune, I don't really like the design of it. Rather stick to an ipod.

  19.1.2008 07:18 #20

• Amir89

  Why back either? Their both absolutely horrible portable media players in my opinion.
  
  One one hand you get an overpriced, over styled, typical piece of Apple hardware that tries so hard to be different it falls flat on its ass. It costs twice to threes more than an equivalent player from iRiver or Creative yet has a 20% failure rate among most models, horrible battery life, insanely overpriced and useless accessories and pointless capacities like 80Gb-160Gb.... ?? Who honestly needs to carry around with them that much music?
  Couldn't see a use for that unless your planning to circumnavigate the Earth in a wooden raft.
  
  
  On the other hand MS go out and design a proprietary Mp3 player which technically sounds a lot better than Apple with wireless syncing, wide codec support and a decent price, but then they give it a typical "MS makeover" and load with so much DRM, proprietary software and nonsense that your swimming in bloatware. Apparently you can't even use the Zune as a USB storage device...
  
  Their both so overhyped and ridiculously pointless I don't see why everyone makes such a big deal out of them.
  

  Current Specs:
  Intel82801BA Mobo, Intel D 945G @3.4Ghz, 2x2Mb L2 Cache, 1Gb DDR2 SD RAM @677Mhz, 250Gb WD Caviar @10,000Rpm, GeForce7600GT 512MB GDDR2, ASUSTek Tiger Digital/Analog TV Tuner, Samsung SyncMaster941BW 19" LCD, LG H20L DVD±R/RW DL LightScribe, LG GSA-4167B DVD±R/RW DL, Logitech Z-5500 505Watt 5.1 Surround
  
  

  19.1.2008 08:16 #21

• chaos_zzz

  Originally posted by rainofire: Downloading things has a limit. My computer doesn't only hold videos, it also holds files, music, picture and programs. Meaning I wouldn't have enough space for HD movies, well yea I can buy a new HDD, but that like $250 for a 500gb, and HD movies have pretty BIG sizes. Plus the videos also have prices. An I don't know what is the average size for 1080p videos, but I'm sure their above 4gb. To me thats pretty big.
  
  And how LONG will it take to download something that big? 4-6 hours if you have internet connection as fast as japan. An average person would rather have a hard copy. And blu-ray has a scratch proof surface,so it won't get damage that easily. And I only know one person that has a zune, I don't really like the design of it. Rather stick to an ipod.add the fact that not all pc's can actually play an Hd file, so stevie what where u saying? blu ray get the player pay a monthly fee watch as much movies as u want :0

  19.1.2008 08:47 #22

• dblbogey7

  According to George Ou over at ZDNet low bitrate 720p downloads come with a caveat:
  
  Quote:The only time 4 mbps 720p will look better than 8 mbps 480i is when the video on the screen is almost entirely stationary or it’s a low-complexity video such as animation movies. Under most normal circumstances, the low bit-rate 720p so-called “HD” video will be inferior though many companies are betting that consumers won’t know any better...
  
  ...consumers must be aware of the fact that they’re slightly worse than a 1080p up-converted DVD. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959&tag=nl.e622
  
  So it's up to you to decide:
  
  $230 for the Apple TV box
  $4 - $5 for a movie that you can watch within a 24 hour period then it's deleted from your box.
  Picture quality that's inferior to upconverted DVD and inferior to broadcast HD.

  19.1.2008 09:50 #23

• NexGen76

  Quote:According to George Ou over at ZDNet low bitrate 720p downloads come with a caveat:
  
  Quote:The only time 4 mbps 720p will look better than 8 mbps 480i is when the video on the screen is almost entirely stationary or it’s a low-complexity video such as animation movies. Under most normal circumstances, the low bit-rate 720p so-called “HD” video will be inferior though many companies are betting that consumers won’t know any better...
  
  ...consumers must be aware of the fact that they’re slightly worse than a 1080p up-converted DVD. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959&tag=nl.e622
  
  So it's up to you to decide:
  
  $230 for the Apple TV box
  $4 - $5 for a movie that you can watch within a 24 hour period then it's deleted from your box.
  Picture quality that's inferior to upconverted DVD and inferior to broadcast HD.Very informal post i'll choose either HD format before i choose Apple.
  
  
  juankerr
  
  Thxs for cleaning that up,Great info also.

  19.1.2008 10:28 #24

• Shinraboy

  Okay, so you release a laptop as thin as a sheet of paper and an 8GB phone (technology which has been around for over 2 years in Japan, without the touchscreen)and now you're the man? Give me a break, Apple went through 5 generations of iPods before they got it right, Zune is just starting and it's gaining popularity. As for Blu-Ray, that's starting too, who's leading in sales again? Oh, yeah, Blu-Ray! And didn't a huge company just sign on exclusively with Blu-Ray? Steve, get your sh!t straight and don't be cocky!

  19.1.2008 11:14 #25

• jove

  yell drm now yall... hate on apple go on... its a rental thing huh go on hate on them

  19.1.2008 11:28 #26

• ZippyDSM

  One could stipulate tat they are failures for not quickly saturating the market and making money.

  19.1.2008 13:25 #27

• nervuli

  I'm with Steve Jobs on this Zune thing. I don't know anyone who owns Zune either.
  
  Nobody has ever even mentioned the word Zune. I don't even know where to buy Zune if I somehow on drunken state would think so :D
  
  iPods on the other hand are everywhere (I have iPod Shuffle too)

  19.1.2008 14:04 #28

• kdt74

  Originally posted by OFI: Meh I love my Zune 1, people ask when they see it if it is an Ipod, I just say no it's like an Ipod, does all the same stuff but at half the price :PStrange, I could swear that the Zune costs exactly the same as the equivalent iPod.

  19.1.2008 14:55 #29

• kdt74

  Originally posted by Amir89:
  . It costs twice to threes more than an equivalent player from iRiver or Creative yet has a 20% failure rate among most models, horrible battery life, insanely overpriced and useless accessories and pointless capacities like 80Gb-160Gb.... ?? Who honestly needs to carry around with them that much music?
  Couldn't see a use for that unless your planning to circumnavigate the Earth in a wooden raft.
  Really? I can get a brand new 80GB player for $80-$160? Where can I get a 160GB player for $110-$170? Where can I get a player with the features of the 8GB touch for $90-$180?
  
  
  Quote:
  On the other hand MS go out and design a proprietary Mp3 player which technically sounds a lot better than Apple with wireless syncing, wide codec support and a decent price, but then they give it a typical "MS makeover" and load with so much DRM, proprietary software and nonsense that your swimming in bloatware. Apparently you can't even use the Zune as a USB storage device...
  
  Their both so overhyped and ridiculously pointless I don't see why everyone makes such a big deal out of them.Actually the Zune itself only supports MPeg/H.264. The software converts everything else.

  19.1.2008 14:59 #30

• ZippyDSM

  zune wiki
  
  Quote:functions as management software for the device and library and as a client to the online music store. The old version was a modified version of Windows Media Player 11, and the latest version is built from the ground up, with additional DirectShow decoders for AAC, MPEG-4 and H.264, it supports the following formats — for audio: MP3 (.mp3), AAC (Low complexity) (.aac, .mp4, .m4a, .m4b, .mov), WMA (.wma); for video: MPEG4 (in .mp4, .m4v and .mov containers), H.264 (in .mp4, .m4v and .mov containers), WMV (.wmv), ASF (.asf); and for still images: JPEG (.jpg). It synchronizes music, pictures, videos and podcasts to the device.

  19.1.2008 15:19 #31

• macmante

  My goodness, such a commotion. I hate to break anyones heart but Steve Jobs is right. I have read and literally "felt" the waves of emotion pouring off of some of you. It boils down to this folks, if you bought a PC (any brand at all) you bought junk. Windows (which you paid for) is also junk. You see I have been paying very close attention to the wants of the public at large since the old BETAMAX vs. VHS thing. Again I hate to break it to you but Beta was better, video and audio. VHS tapes and machines were cheaper. But it comes down to this, Joe Public doesn't want GOOD, he wants CHEAP. You have a taste for the cheapest hardware (a PC) and all that huge body of free software for the PC and its mostly garage-made, home-brewed, unbridled crap). You get what you pay for. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple. Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate. After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.

  19.1.2008 16:30 #32

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by macmante: My goodness, such a commotion. I hate to break anyones heart but Steve Jobs is right. I have read and literally "felt" the waves of emotion pouring off of some of you. It boils down to this folks, if you bought a PC (any brand at all) you bought junk. Windows (which you paid for) is also junk. You see I have been paying very close attention to the wants of the public at large since the old BETAMAX vs. VHS thing. Again I hate to break it to you but Beta was better, video and audio. VHS tapes and machines were cheaper. But it comes down to this, Joe Public doesn't want GOOD, he wants CHEAP. You have a taste for the cheapest hardware (a PC) and all that huge body of free software for the PC and its mostly garage-made, home-brewed, unbridled crap). You get what you pay for. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple. Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate. After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.you do of coarse realize that leopard is as fcked up as vista/ME in comparison to XP to ME/Vista in comparison to OSX to leopard..... not to mention nothing worthwhile runs on a mac and its propitiatory double premium hardware....
  
  
  I cut my MS chains I refuse to pay for thier products I dont and when I got I keep my bolt cutters handy and remove the WGA crap,the main reason everyone uses MS products is because everything is made for them.
  
  As for copy cating.....ummm.....it started around the time one businessmen got jealous of another and copied his stick....so drop the elitist vitriol already......sheeshh....
  
  
  And if you want to bitch about money grubbing look at the Ipod and Itunes and tel me they are not gouging people off tho things!

  19.1.2008 16:51 #33

• vinny13

  WTF are you talking about!?
  
  Leopard is much better then Tiger! If anything, it's just a big update, which solved many of the problems I was having! To me, Tiger was like Vista. It wasn't as messed up, but there were some pretty extreme annoyences... One I had was everytime I plugged in my iPod or PSP and was viewing their folders and such, after a couple clicks the finder would chrash and all of my folders closed! I'd always have to re-open them and such, but ever since I downloaded Leopard, all of those annoying problems have disappeared :)
  
  BTW I think M$ is more gabbage then Apple just because they're charging $200 for a load of BS that no one wants to deal with(Vista) lol
  
  And I have to agree with the point that Apple has made some pretty great things, one being the first to make a laptop with wireless internet and their Base Station.
  

  (+[PSP]%) = 3.52M33-4
  
  "I get no respect, I tell ya!"

  19.1.2008 17:10 #34

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by vinny13: WTF are you talking about!?
  
  Leopard is much better then Tiger! If anything, it's just a big update, which solved many of the problems I was having! To me, Tiger was like Vista. It wasn't as messed up, but there were some pretty extreme annoyences... One I had was everytime I plugged in my iPod or PSP and was viewing their folders and such, after a couple clicks the finder would chrash and all of my folders closed! I'd always have to re-open them and such, but ever since I downloaded Leopard, all of those annoying problems have disappeared :)
  
  BTW I think M$ is more gabbage then Apple just because they're charging $200 for a load of BS that no one wants to deal with(Vista) lol
  
  And I have to agree with the point that Apple has made some pretty great things, one being the first to make a laptop with wireless internet and their Base Station.They didn't invent he wheel mouse.....took them forever to get 3 button mice....
  
  Mmm I might have got tiger and leopard revesered, oh and windoses is only 130-200 so meh XP i far more stable and compatible than any other OS out including ME2.
  
  The main problem with MAC will forever be locked hardware and lack of software support,if they ca buy a a emulation system that can run 3D games and open the ahrdware to work with most vendors I would try it but I'll take windose simple because its cheaper in EVERYTHING.

  19.1.2008 17:24 #35

• PetahG

  U know..Im not a hater of apple or MS, I just hate when ppl go after something and buy something, just cuz everyone has it.
  Im not goan buy an ipod because all my friends have it. I did buy a Zune because it was 30 gigs for 130 bucks
  thats a pretty good deal to me..I do agree that itunes seems more organized and better than the zune software but what I hate on ipods is that it has the click wheel which i honestly hate and i think the apples break easily, just stop working all of a sudden, more than any other mp3 player.
  And I dont mind the size of the zune, lots of ipod users tell me ohh its so big. So what, at least i feel like im holding something stronger...
  I would have bought a 30 gig creative because I absolutely think thats the best brand of mp3 players but it was too expensive.

  20.1.2008 00:44 #36

• oappi

  ...streaming HD to become a viable option.
  Hah i would like to see ppl with download cap try to download movies over 8gb´s... not to mentione the bandwidth requirments for the service side and torrent tech is still far away from minds of distributeurs. What i have heard most ppl in states can not even have 8mb/s connection so it would be faster to drive the store and buy the damn dics and you can watch it multiple times. downloaded content can easyly be lost when your hdd crashes.
  
  Steaming hd can be the future, but a distant future. Most ppl just dont have enought bandwidth to get real 1080 picture in reasonable time.
  
  i have phone to play my mp3 s i dont need my pockets to be filled with crap that can only do one thing. Phones are grate now a days they are phones, cameras, tv ,radio, mp3 player etc on one device.

  20.1.2008 07:28 #37

• vinny13

  Quote:Originally posted by vinny13: WTF are you talking about!?
  
  Leopard is much better then Tiger! If anything, it's just a big update, which solved many of the problems I was having! To me, Tiger was like Vista. It wasn't as messed up, but there were some pretty extreme annoyences... One I had was everytime I plugged in my iPod or PSP and was viewing their folders and such, after a couple clicks the finder would chrash and all of my folders closed! I'd always have to re-open them and such, but ever since I downloaded Leopard, all of those annoying problems have disappeared :)
  
  BTW I think M$ is more gabbage then Apple just because they're charging $200 for a load of BS that no one wants to deal with(Vista) lol
  
  And I have to agree with the point that Apple has made some pretty great things, one being the first to make a laptop with wireless internet and their Base Station.They didn't invent he wheel mouse.....took them forever to get 3 button mice....
  
  Mmm I might have got tiger and leopard revesered, oh and windoses is only 130-200 so meh XP i far more stable and compatible than any other OS out including ME2.
  
  The main problem with MAC will forever be locked hardware and lack of software support,if they ca buy a a emulation system that can run 3D games and open the ahrdware to work with most vendors I would try it but I'll take windose simple because its cheaper in EVERYTHING.They "lack" stuff because they aren't as big as windows but they are getting bigger. I have everything I need anyways. Bit torrent, Halo, NFSU 2, iWork, iLife, and 13340 NES games.
  
  If you want cheap then why don't you build your own computer and then put linux on it :P

  20.1.2008 10:41 #38

• sciascia

  I use Windows, and I like it. I've used Tiger and liked it too. The only thing holding me back from getting a MAC is that I couldn't do half the things I do on my PC on one. I'm sure I could do alternatives, but that is moronic.
  
  As for the whole Zune v. Ipod thing, I've seen some Zunes around campus, but not nearly as many Ipods. I've seen reviews saying the new Zune is a great alternative, but I think Apple has a grip on the market. Regardless of the make of your mp3 player, when someone asks you about it they always call it in Ipod. People always ask me if my Creative (Now mind you it doesn't even have a color screen and is an inch thick) is an Ipod and it was made five years ago. I do have a Nano, and I used it a lot, but now that I got a decent sized micro SD card for my Samsung phone, there is no use for the Nano.

  20.1.2008 11:03 #39

• rosedog

  Originally posted by macmante: My goodness, such a commotion. I hate to break anyones heart but Steve Jobs is right. I have read and literally "felt" the waves of emotion pouring off of some of you. It boils down to this folks, if you bought a PC (any brand at all) you bought junk. Windows (which you paid for) is also junk. You see I have been paying very close attention to the wants of the public at large since the old BETAMAX vs. VHS thing. Again I hate to break it to you but Beta was better, video and audio. VHS tapes and machines were cheaper. But it comes down to this, Joe Public doesn't want GOOD, he wants CHEAP. You have a taste for the cheapest hardware (a PC) and all that huge body of free software for the PC and its mostly garage-made, home-brewed, unbridled crap). You get what you pay for. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple. Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate. After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.@ Fanboy
  
  Sorry to burst your apple pie but they were not the first with touch screen phones. Their piss pour attempt at it is even funnier.
  
  Your arguement about GOOD vs. CHEAPER is dumb too. If that were the case HD-DVD wouldn't be on its death bed reading DO NOT RESUSCIATE.
  
  On imitating/stealing...Good thing Apple didn't have to pay Creative a butt load of money huh? I wonder how many apple pies you can buy with $100 million dollars?
  
  Apple is the biggest ME TOO out there.
  
  Find your inner ZEN and respect yourself.

  20.1.2008 14:40 #40

• vinny13

  Originally posted by rosedog:
  
  @ Fanboy
  
  Sorry to burst your apple pie but they were not the first with touch screen phones. Their piss pour attempt at it is even funnier.
  It wasn't the first (so you say, i don't know), but I definatly wouldn't call it piss poor since so many people want one... I want one just because it has so much support right now with emulators and such... They're just too expensive with the plans and all and do not have enough space for me right now. Otherwise, I think its a pretty great phone, especially for a first attempt.

  20.1.2008 15:36 #41

• DXR88

  Oh My God People Get real you let this fanboy make one comment and you guys all over him you did just what he wanted. Your spamming for him.
  
  As for Mister Jobs Get real buddy Your Apple is going out i dont get it. this is the new age of media is it not. yet the old greedy Suits want some piece of the pie they dont deserve RIAA/MPAA/THE BIG 4
  Did THey make the music? Did they make the Movies? No.
  
  As for you guys That dont know the Kenbak-1 was the first Personel computer. created by a man named John Blankenbaker. even IBM's were a mere imatation. on another note Microsoft Has never made there own hardware. and the only computer Steve Jobs made was his apple 2 computer.his freind Steve Wozniak made the first apple computer. after this, apple corp. went to Motorola for is cheapchips and after they wrote off apple's contract because of violations. apple corp. then went to G series processors.

  20.1.2008 19:31 #42

• scorpNZ

  PC's are cheap not because of being crap ( pc's & mac's use the same crossover hardware like chips,harddrives etc..lmao) but because of competition from other manufacturers duh!,yeah anyway who give a toss what jobs or anyone else says, anything that has software is bound to have massive bugs in it right down to bloody cellphones..lol.. as for blue-ray winning the format war pffffft i'll believe it when it's official,what's the song "don't believe the hype"

  20.1.2008 20:32 #43

• xtago

  Originally posted by macmante: My 2001 Mac iBook gives me NO TROUBLE AT ALL. My XP machine always needs something. Windows is a me-too product that did not exist until Apple showed the world how a computer SHOULD operate. I have NO respect for imitators and copy-cats but immense respect for innovators like Apple.
  
  Every freakin cell phone maker is all "me-too" over a touch screen after Apple again shows the world how these things should operate.
  
  
  After the iPod hit the scene and gained huge numbers of users was when Microsoft came along as if to say, "Well here's a pool party I want to break-up and I'll try to take over now with crap because people are so stupid that I think I can get something good away from them, I can make all the money." What's next a Microsoft cell phone for heaven sake? Every time you lay your hand on a mouse like it or not, you have Apple to thank because they invented the thing. Ever hear of a thing called "Desktop Publishing"? Guess what, Apple invented that too. Apple set me free. Microsoft is all about chains. Why you people love them is because you have a taste for crap.
  Learn your Operation Systems mate.
  
  Windows is based on the Amiga OS a much cleaner and better system than what Apple had at the time, fully multitasking back when MS DOS/Windows and Mac OS could only run 1 program at a time, also had support for 65,000 colours back when windows only support 16 and then 32 colours and Mac OS only did 16 colours.
  
  Amiga OS had a 2 button mouse, the Mac has never had a 2 button mouse.
  
  Symbian Phones have had a touch screen well before the Iphone and winCE/WM05/6 were out.
  
  Apple only brought out Ipods after Creative had their HDD MP3 players out for few years and Apple had the gall to sue Creative over Creative using their user interface, even though Creative had come up with the design, what BS.
  
  I think Apple people need to get their hand off it sometimes and actually look around at the new age gadgets before proclaiming Apple to be the designer of all these gadgets.

  21.1.2008 04:25 #44

• twosocks

  whoa those are harsh words. ipod might be on top now... but steven should remember that once you're on top theres no where to go but down.

  22.1.2008 12:28 #45

• vinny13

  Originally posted by twosocks: whoa those are harsh words. ipod might be on top now... but steven should remember that once you're on top theres no where to go but down.Or they could just stay at the top...
  

  (+[PSP]%) = 3.52M33-4
  
  "I get no respect, I tell ya!"

  22.1.2008 12:46 #46

• WierdName

  Quote:Originally posted by twosocks: whoa those are harsh words. ipod might be on top now... but steven should remember that once you're on top theres no where to go but down.Or they could just stay at the top...Ya... that's what they all think right before they smack face first into the ground. You can only be on top for so long before you screw up.

  22.1.2008 17:12 #47

• Bozobub

  Actually, Xerox invented the first true window-based GUI (Wiki here)
  
  The genaeology from there is the Lisa (o.O $10,000 PC zzz)and then the mac. The Apple Lisa (Wiki here) pretty much finalized the basic GUI concepts for the Mac and was begun in 1978 >.>
  
  So, hmmm.

  27.1.2008 07:15 #48

• Bozobub

  Oh, the final irony is, the first several iterations of the Mac's OS were writeen by... Microsoft xD. That's exactly why Apple sued; They claimed (rightly) that he'd taken what he used for Windows from his work on the Apple OS. Well, duh. =/

  27.1.2008 07:21 #49

• arekisu

  I wanted to try out the Zune before i got my ipod, but as it's only sold in the US i went for the ipod. I think that if MS go international with the Zune, it will give the ipod a real run for the top spot.

  27.1.2008 16:36 #50

• madman91

  LOL
  
  microsoft vs. apple fanboys go at it
  
  who really cares about it all? buy what you like and stick with it

  3.2.2008 21:06 #51

• borhan9

  I am starting to like Steve not because his the boss of Apple but because he says wat he thinks and does not care of the ramifications i guess thats wat u can do when ur loaded :P

  16.2.2008 18:15 #52