AfterDawn: News

Toshiba confirms dropping of HD DVD

Toshiba has officially announced that the company will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. After many unofficial announcements by different sources, the company has confirmed in a press release that the development of HD DVD has ended. Toshiba will be reducing the shipments of HD DVD players towards the cessation by the end of March 2008.

First reported by the Japanese public broadcaster NHK and after that by a source from Toshiba, Warner and couple of major retailers, such as Best Buy, Netflix and Wal-mart, dropping HD DVD was too much for the camp. Toshiba promises that it will still provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.



"While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for High Definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation.

In the press release Toshiba assures that, as a member of DVD Forum, the dropping of their high-definition format will not affect the commitment to DVD. The company also said it will look forward to working with their HD DVD partners, naming Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Animation, Microsoft, Intel, and HP.

Written by: Matti Robinson @ 19 Feb 2008 5:42

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• 118 comments

• ZippyDSM

  Now as long as they stick to this statement we can move on.

  19.2.2008 05:50 #1

• ringwar

  Die HDDVD Die!!!

  19.2.2008 06:05 #2

• connolly

  Watch ebay in the next few days for a flood of HD-DVD players. It's the new "must have" paperweight for this season.

  19.2.2008 06:09 #3

• gozilla

  wow, this is scary. sony finally won a format war. must be a bit of a kick in the balls for HD-DVD owners.

  19.2.2008 06:39 #4

• wolfmanz

  Quote:wow, this is scary. sony finally won a format war. must be a bit of a kick in the balls for HD-DVD owners.More of a kick in the balls to Fair Use
  
  Sony still Sucks!

  19.2.2008 06:49 #5

• BuddhaJ

  This is a sad day for HD DVD. HD DVD had a product that was good for the consumer and good for the business. Congrats to Blue Ray for dominating 1% of the total DVD market. By the time you start to take over the market movies that you can download and play on your tv will take over as the new medium. To the Blue Ray users I wish you the best luck and hope your hardware will keep up with the profile changes that Sony will introduce here within a few weeks after winning.
  
  edit- Now I can't wait for people to rip Blue Ray movies and passing them around on the internet that can be burned onto HD DVD.

  19.2.2008 06:54 #6

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by BuddhaJ: This is a sad day for HD DVD. HD DVD had a product that was good for the consumer and good for the business. Congrats to Blue Ray for dominating 1% of the total DVD market. By the time you start to take over the market movies that you can download and play on your tv will take over as the new medium. To the Blue Ray users I wish you the best luck and hope your hardware will keep up with the profile changes that Sony will introduce here within a few weeks after winning.
  The world is filled with fascists ^_~

  19.2.2008 06:55 #7

• vinny13

  Lol great nice pic :P

  19.2.2008 07:29 #8

• error5

  I guess I was wrong. Toshiba didn't announce any BluRay plans at their press event.
  
  http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/live-...rence-in-tokyo/
  
  The numbers they revealed were interesting though:
  
  Quote:Q: How many HD DVD players and recorders, exactly, did you sell?
  A: 600,000 players in the US -- 300,000 of which were Xbox 360 HD DVD drives. 100,000 units were sold in Europe. And about 10,000 players and 20,000 recorders in Japan. So about 730,000 units worldwide.
  Standalone players/recorders:
  US - 600k units
  Europe - 100k units
  Japan - 30,000 units
  
  Xbox 360 drives (worldwide) - 300k
  PCs with HD DVD (worldwide) - 300k

  19.2.2008 08:27 #9

• odb992001

  So now blu-ray is the winner, with HD-DVD gone the prices for the blu-ray will not come down in price or the movies. if u want to go to your local store and buy movies for ur ps3 that coast that much then go ahead. HD-DVD was good and at a good price. And yes both formats looks the same, they'er both hi-def. sony new it was going to loose the war, but MONEY played a good part for them. so now the ps3 can now try to sell more than 360. they have no games but they will have movies. LOL thats was sony plan. Why u think the ps3 came down in price within 8 months of its release. no one wanted the high price system with no good games, so just sale it as a blu-ray player.

  19.2.2008 08:35 #10

• lxhotboy

  Quote:More of a kick in the balls to Fair UseI really dont see anything that was unfair. Dealing with reality two companies had format differences and each promoted what they believed to be the better of the two. I think someone just pick up one of those really large family size paks of HATERAIDE at Sam's for a really good price. Microsoft even knew what was going on. Why do you think they really never chose to release an Xbox 360 with the HDdvd built inside for consumers willing to pay the extra $$$. Microsoft had enough sense to at least make an add on. Now they will probably eventually release a BLueRay add on and then when production cost drops enough an xbox 360 with BLUERAY built in.

  19.2.2008 08:35 #11

• error5

  Originally posted by odb992001: HD-DVD was good and at a good price. Part of the problem that HD DVD had was that Toshiba artificially deflated hardware prices to a point that they were losing several hundred dollars per unit sold - not a good proposition for investors and stockholders.
  
  Plus the prices were so low and therefore unprofitable that other CE manufacturers weren't interested in developing and making HD DVD players. This left Toshiba practically alone. Note: the Venturer and the Onkyo were rebadged Toshiba models.

  19.2.2008 08:40 #12

• Icanbe

  Originally posted by connolly: Watch ebay in the next few days for a flood of HD-DVD players. It's the new "must have" paperweight for this season.Why?
  
  will all the HD-DvD movies people have suddenly stop playing?
  Will the players people have suddenly stop working?

  19.2.2008 08:42 #13

• Sudds

  Originally posted by odb992001: So now blu-ray is the winner, with HD-DVD gone the prices for the blu-ray will not come down in price or the movies. if u want to go to your local store and buy movies for ur ps3 that coast that much then go ahead.HDDVD and BD discs in Zaffi or Virgin are the same price...

  19.2.2008 08:55 #14

• z0diac

  Personally I wishd HD-DVD had won - I just hate the name "bluray". Sounds retarded...
  
  Plus Blu-Ray discs put their data RIGHT below the surface of the media, so they're much more prone to scratch damage. On the upside, they hold more data.
  
  I'm just glad all the confusion on what format to buy is now over. But "Blu-Ray" still sounds stupid. :P

  19.2.2008 08:59 #15

• juankerr

  Originally posted by z0diac: Plus Blu-Ray discs put their data RIGHT below the surface of the media, so they're much more prone to scratch damage. I suggest you google "DURABIS."

  19.2.2008 09:11 #16

• beastly1

  i find it hard for me to believe that microsoft will come out with a blu ray add on theres no way that sony will let the compatition get a step ahead xbox is already a better game system

  19.2.2008 09:27 #17

• Gnawnivek

  Quote:Originally posted by connolly: Watch ebay in the next few days for a flood of HD-DVD players. It's the new "must have" paperweight for this season.Why?
  
  will all the HD-DvD movies people have suddenly stop playing?
  Will the players people have suddenly stop working?true true, i have the same thinking BUT... you do want the format to continue regardless the fact that existing hardware still works even if the format war is over. Why? Well, for one thing, what if my hd-dvd player is broken by next year? Oh no, the horror... what will happen to my hd-dvd collections? I don't wanna buy a "last gen" hd-dvd player. By next year, there will be new BD players, slicker and cheaper (just like the evolution of dvd players).

  19.2.2008 09:31 #18

• d0nd

  great.

  19.2.2008 09:45 #19

• horrabin

  Fist, let me clarify that I own players and discs in both formats - I'm a movie fan so it was ridiculous for me to "choose sides" - I want to watch movies in high-def with great sound - simple. However, I do own more blu-ray than hd-dvd, but that's only because of the larger studio backing. Again, simple but, even though I supported both formats, I'm glad this 'war' has finally ended and a single format can be concentrated on.
  But I will admit that, after reading posts on this site for months, I absolutely cannot wait to see how some of the fanatical HD-DVD supporters (hughjars, for one) spin this bit of news. Considering sales should speak for themselves, I'm convinced that I'll see some excellent, creative and completely off-the-hook theories including payoffs, manipulation, mafia connections and maybe even alien abductions.
  Honestly, I can't wait.

  19.2.2008 09:45 #20

• hughjars

  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: what if my hd-dvd player is broken by next year? - That's highly unlikely - when did you last DVD player die right after the guarantee expired?
  
  Players are not that fragile - unless you ill-treat them - they tend to either work or no work and anything that's going to let go usually does pretty quickly.
  
  Even if it did, buy another one, even cheaper.
  You can still get Betamaz, VHS & Laserdisc players, you know?
  
  Or buy another HD DVD player cheap now to tuck away.
  
  The last resort might be to find someone importing HD DVD China players (these are mechanically identical to our HD DVD except for firmwares & a badge on the case).
  
  Anyhoo
  
  Terrible pity about HD DVD.
  
  But I think some people will end up very sorry.
  
  Region coding will now come in everywhere and BD+ will too (no prizes for guessing why they held off using it much so far).
  
  That's the sharing community shafted & the BD ownership broken up into nice little easily exploited groupings.
  
  You do know that sometimes you really should be careful what you wish for, right?
  
  The only good thing as far as I can see is that it's all too late for Blu-ray anyways.
  They will not have a mass-market-friendly range of final spec players until well into next year (which means they are 3 years in already).
  
  HD TV services with a DVR are the big deal & selling with almost every HD TV this time around anyways.
  Blu-ray has missed the bus on this one, thankfully.

  19.2.2008 09:50 #21

• Gnawnivek

  Originally posted by odb992001: So now blu-ray is the winner, with HD-DVD gone the prices for the blu-ray will not come down in price or the movies. if u want to go to your local store and buy movies for ur ps3 that coast that much then go ahead. HD-DVD was good and at a good price. And yes both formats looks the same, they'er both hi-def. sony new it was going to loose the war, but MONEY played a good part for them. so now the ps3 can now try to sell more than 360. they have no games but they will have movies. LOL thats was sony plan. Why u think the ps3 came down in price within 8 months of its release. no one wanted the high price system with no good games, so just sale it as a blu-ray player.you know, you made the price drop on the PS3 sounds like a bad thing for consumers... price drops are always good, even i don't like the product, i still applaud for the price drops.
  
  And yes, MONEY is everything, why do you think Sony is pushing Blu-ray so hard? If the hd-dvd camp is doing similar pushing, do you honestly think the war is over by now? No way, at least another year or so (and yes, more confusion among consumers, but at the competition continues, which mean more promotions :)
  
  For the record, i love my PS3 and i don't think there are no games to play. I'm addicted to PJ Monsters at the moment, a $8 game which i certainly get every penny's worth. Of course, given that the PS3 is a media monster, obviously, i don't use it just for games.

  19.2.2008 09:53 #22

• Icanbe

  oops!

  19.2.2008 09:54 #23

• Icanbe

  Quote:Quote:Originally posted by connolly: Watch ebay in the next few days for a flood of HD-DVD players. It's the new "must have" paperweight for this season.Why?
  
  will all the HD-DvD movies people have suddenly stop playing?
  Will the players people have suddenly stop working?well, for one thing, what if my hd-dvd player is broken by next year? Oh no, the horror... what will happen to my hd-dvd collections?Very true that could happen, but not likely.
  But now I guess all the HD-DvD players sitting on store shelves are gonna be nice and cheap. I'll buy another one and keep it in storage.
  

  http://www.dvdspot.com/member=morguex

  19.2.2008 09:58 #24

• club42

  Quote:Part of the problem that HD DVD had was that Toshiba artificially deflated hardware prices to a point that they were losing several hundred dollars per unit sold - not a good proposition for investors and stockholders. Agreed. A company can only do that for so long without seeing results. The price drop and the Paramount deal were their only two punches and they didn't have the effect Toshiba had hoped for. They also should have advertised much more aggressively. Well I hope Sony will figure out that the disk prices are what is keeping people away from Hi-def. Dvd set the standard for price and convenience.

  19.2.2008 10:00 #25

• horrabin

  Originally posted by z0diac: Personally I wishd HD-DVD had won - I just hate the name "bluray". Sounds retarded...
  
  Plus Blu-Ray discs put their data RIGHT below the surface of the media, so they're much more prone to scratch damage. On the upside, they hold more data.
  
  I'm just glad all the confusion on what format to buy is now over. But "Blu-Ray" still sounds stupid. :P
  Actually, the hd-dvd discs were more prone to scratching - blu-ray discs have a thicker protective coating - you can feel the difference between the two. I recently read that Netflix was having a tough time because of hd-dvd discs having such a short lifespan - I'll see if I can find the link for you.
  
  Oh, and "blu-ray" may sound stupid but, in reality, so does "hd-dvd" considering it's a redundant name or, to the less informed, implies that dvd's can't handle high-definition content - the only difference is the amount of space.

  19.2.2008 10:02 #26

• hughjars

  Originally posted by horrabin: Actually, the hd-dvd discs were more prone to scratching - No more "prone" than a regular DVD.
  
  They are physically identical in that respect.
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: blu-ray discs have a thicker protective coating - .....and there is no reason why (besides greed) that that coating should not be applied to all disc products.
  
  Blu-ray has it out of total necessity, not as some sort of 'perk'.
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: I recently read that Netflix was having a tough time because of hd-dvd discs having such a short lifespan - They are no different to DVD.
  
  Netflix switched cos they got a hell of a good deal on stock & replacements.

  19.2.2008 10:10 #27

• Gnawnivek

  Quote: - That's highly unlikely but even if it did, buy another one, even cheaper.
  You can still get Betamaz, VHS & Laserdisc players, you know?No, i didn't know and that's my point... Not only i didn't know, even if i know, i'm not dumb enough to think it's all good. Yes, it's probably cheap on the secondary market, but there's still no supports/warranties. And, worse of all, the players are not streamlined, i.e. you're buying the last gen (i'm sorry, you gotta have some sort of fetish love for your softwares to do something like that).
  
  
  Quote:Or buy another HD DVD player cheap now to tuck away.
  True, i can buy another, but i'm not going down that road... My hd-dvd collection is fairly small, about 50 discs or something. I'm gonna keep them as they are, by the time my hd-dvd add-on dies, the movies should be available on BDs already, so if i really like them, double dip.
  
  Quote:But I think some people will end up very sorry.
  i guess i'm not one of those some people then...
  
  Quote:Region coding will now come in everywhere and BD+ will too (no prizes for guessing why they held off using it much so far).
  
  That's the sharing community shafted & the BD ownership broken up into nice little easily exploited groupings.I'm sorry, i live in the US and i think US makes more mvoies and usually better than over seas (i know this is very flaming, but stop and think for a moment, i said usually). So, region coding is quite irrelevant for me (for small number of popular over sea movies, like Pan's Labyrinth, they get released over here anyway, so basically, i'm all covered). Besides, i agree with the notion that if it's man made (or woman), then it can be broken (or flawed). So yes, BDs can be cracked/hacked, just matter of times. Stop complaining, just b/c BDs are harder to crack/hack, you can use that reason to hate the format. Where is that "love the challenges" attitude?
  
  Quote:You do know that sometimes you really should be careful what you wish for, right?
  you sound like everyone who got a BD player or a PS3 is a Sony fanboy/fangirl... Does it ever occur to you that people buy the product b/c they actually like it?
  
  Quote:
  The only good thing as far as I can see is that it's all too late for Blu-ray anyways.
  They will not have a mass-market-friendly range of final spec players until well into next year (which means they are 3 years in already).
  
  HD TV services with a DVR are the big deal & selling with almost every HD TV this time around anyways.
  Blu-ray has missed the bus on this one, thankfully.Let's just put it this way... HD DVRs are still expensive, not to mention the channels are limited. HD TVs with DVRs are meaningless, it's like a TV with VCR build in rather than TV with dvd player build in). Unless you're talking about HD TVs with HD DVRs. Just to let you know that not all DVRs can record HD programs... Also, the PS3 (of course, the center of Blu-ray) didn't really miss the bus on this one, it's already happening in Japan.

  19.2.2008 10:21 #28

• Sazaziel

  Oh no here we go again. Look people and BD fanboys all across afterdawn.... Blu Ray may have won the format war with HD DVD or has it. Let's get back to reality here. What has Blu Ray actually won? Nothing. People will view movies in whatever format they can so it doesn't matter. These same studios agreeing to publish movies on BD aren't stupid. That's why the movies are still being published on standard DVD as well. People on here act as if HD DVD was a total loss. The player still doubles as an upconverting DVD player and Blu Ray will never take the place nor the popularity of standard DVD to the value based consumer. The war is over but it was all a sham as well as a waste of money and time. They both still play DVD. BD fans just seem to have purchased a very high priced one. Now it's gonna turn out just like I stated. Were all gonna be on here trying to find out how to back up and burn BD in which currently isn't possible. Now that we gave away some of our freedom for a format...we just gave Sony the right to pretty much do whatever they want with DRM on BD. So good luck with that "fair use right" cause things are about to be tough. That HD DVD player that you didn't want to buy in favor of BD....I highly suggest you purchase it right away. Cause for people, programmers at Slysoft, and many others like me.....they are going to be on our asses. Congrats.... you've just sold your soul. For any of you HD DVD owners out there I would just stick to the standard DVD versions of the newer movies. Just keep adding to your existing DVD collection.

  19.2.2008 10:32 #29

• ukchap

  blu-ray is so much better and sony is the best...im glad the better format one...you cant keep compete with the one and only...sony...

  19.2.2008 10:35 #30

• horrabin

  Originally posted by hughjars: - .....and there is no reason why (besides greed) that that coating should not be applied to all disc products.
  
  Blu-ray has it out of total necessity, not as some sort of 'perk'.Relax. I wasn't implying that it was a 'perk' - I was merely stating a fact - if the coating is needed, then I would say it's a good thing that it's provided - maybe other manufacturers should follow the lead.
  
  Originally posted by hughjars:
  - They are no different to DVD.
  
  Netflix switched cos they got a hell of a good deal on stock & replacements.
  I'm no expert, believe me - I was simply recounting that I'd read that hd-dvd's suffered a higher failure rate during the rental processes. In fact, a few responses to the posts actually accused blu-ray fanbois of damaging the discs intentionally. That's how ridiculous things get.
  Also, I wasn't trying to say that was the reason behind Netflix's switch. In fact, I wasn't trying to address that in the least. However, regardless of what some people want to believe, occasionally (and I'm not saying this is the case here because there's no way for anyone other than insiders to know) business decisions are really made based on sales and demand. I know that's a crazy notion but it has been known to happen.

  19.2.2008 10:38 #31

• tin23uk

  Quote: - you sound like everyone who got a BD player or a PS3 is a Sony fanboy/fangirl... Does it ever occur to you that people buy the product b/c they actually like it?well said, i have a ps3 and i love it but i dont see myself as a fan boy ot that big into gaming but i was in the market for a console and the ps3 looked like a better deal to me, the last time i played xbox was about 5 years ago, what i saw on the screen looked fine but i couldnt get the hang of the controller so i stuck with what i know (playstation).
  
  i wasnt looking for a highdef movie plyer but i figured you get one bundled with the ps3 a no extra aftersale cost, if i had bought the 360 and later decided i wanted to watch movies it would cost me around $470 (system + add on player) which is more than he 40gb ps3 and only slightly less than the 80gb.

  19.2.2008 10:49 #32

• Gnawnivek

  Quote:Quote: - you sound like everyone who got a BD player or a PS3 is a Sony fanboy/fangirl... Does it ever occur to you that people buy the product b/c they actually like it?well said, i have a ps3 and i love it but i dont see myself as a fan boy ot that big into gaming but i was in the market for a console and the ps3 looked like a better deal to me, the last time i played xbox was about 5 years ago, what i saw on the screen looked fine but i couldnt get the hang of the controller so i stuck with what i know (playstation).
  
  i wasnt looking for a highdef movie plyer but i figured you get one bundled with the ps3 a no extra aftersale cost, if i had bought the 360 and later decided i wanted to watch movies it would cost me around $470 (system + add on player) which is more than he 40gb ps3 and only slightly less than the 80gb.Kudos... i bought my PS3 for pretty the same reasons, but more... I know that i'll be doing a lot of home made HD films (you know the usuals, kids' b'days, graduations etc...) and i'm all for the AVCHD format. So, the PS3 handles my BD/gaming needs as well as priceless AVCHD segments. Also, upgrading to a 250 gb hdd on the PS3 is cheap and simple (try to do that on the X360... well, now you know why i left my X360 at 20gb).
  
  Of course, i don't have anything against folks happy with the dvd formats, but you're missing something, Hi-Def! If anyone still think dvd or upconverted dvds are comparable to hi-def (not price, but quality), well, obviously, HD is not for you.

  19.2.2008 11:16 #33

• hughjars

  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Let's just put it this way... HD DVRs are still expensive - No they aren't.
  
  In the UK Sky TV are now doing their HD TV box for £99 = $198.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: not to mention the channels are limited. - It still works out a lot cheaper than the occasional expensive Blu-ray disc & an expensive Blu-ray player (God knows which stand-alone you'd want to buy .....and no, I don't want a game console)
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: HD TVs with DVRs are meaningless, it's like a TV with VCR build in rather than TV with dvd player build in. Unless you're talking about HD TVs with HD DVRs. - Why would anyone with an HD TV not want HD on their HD TV all the time?
  
  Even their ability to upscale regular SD TV works out pretty good.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Just to let you know that not all DVRs can record HD programs. - Mine does, it has a 320gb HDD which allows plenty of room for them and they can easily be upgraded to 1TB if necessary.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Also, the PS3 (of course, the center of Blu-ray) didn't really miss the bus on this one, it's already happening in Japan. - You can try and preach away til your heart's content but Japan is not the centre of the universe and they often do things few others pick up on.
  They didn't ditch Betamax there until 2002!
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Of course, i don't have anything against folks happy with the dvd formats, but you're missing something, Hi-Def! - Like as if a Blu-ray device is the only route to high def.
  
  *rolls eyes*
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: If anyone still think dvd or upconverted dvds are comparable to hi-def (not price, but quality), well, obviously, HD is not for you. - Anyone with a 32" - 50" HD TV is going to be just fine with HD TV services, downloading high def, downloading ripped high def encodes and upscaled SD DVD
  (which with a 90:1 content advantage - that's both high def formats combined so it's really 180:1 compared to Blu-ray - we'll all be watching new SD DVDs for a long time to come anyways - as well as our existing SD DVD collections).
  
  We don't 'need' Blu-ray and it most certainly is not the only way to get good high def content.
  
  In fact some Blu-ray movies are so underwhelming that it honestly is really hard to see much of an improvement over upscale
  (unless you are in the tiny minority & have a truly massive HD TV - which most of us will never bother with).

  19.2.2008 11:35 #34

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by error5: The numbers they revealed were interesting though:
  
  Quote:Q: How many HD DVD players and recorders, exactly, did you sell?
  A: 600,000 players in the US -- 300,000 of which were Xbox 360 HD DVD drives. 100,000 units were sold in Europe. And about 10,000 players and 20,000 recorders in Japan. So about 730,000 units worldwide.
  US - 600k units
  Europe - 100k units
  Japan - 30,000 units
  
  Xbox 360 drives (worldwide) - 300k
  PCs with HD DVD (worldwide) - 300kIs that all they sold? 730K units worldwide. This is straight from the horse's mouth right?
  
  No wonder HD DVD couldn't get any leverage with the Nielsen numbers. Just goes to show that cheaper players don't neccesarily mean better sales. It also means that amazon rankings mean absolutely nothing.

  19.2.2008 11:41 #35

• Gnawnivek

  Hughjar, you're really something... first you whine about Blu-ray, now that it won the format war, you onto something else, HD DVRs. For goodness sake, your freaking HD DVR logics can be easily applied to your beloved hd-dvd format as well.
  
  Now, with your DVR posts, so what it cost $200, it's not like you don't have to pay monthly premiums for it. Secondly, no, my DVR doesn't do HDs and my TV does. Do like like a HD DVR? Sure, as long as my bill is under $50 a month for TV programs. You have to understand that it's not that people don't want HD TVs with HD DVRs, even with $200 HD DVRs, you still have to pay the premium and that's the turn off point for me.
  
  Also, i realized that close captioning is not available in HD broadcast (yes, i'm one of the anal ones who like to know what was being said, especially watching something for the 2nd time, Boston Legal is a perfect example, love the Brit accent, but need to slow down a bit to understand the words). Perhaps this is fixed, perhaps not. Look, until hard drive format of the movies/shows have extras, subtitles, different language tracks, i'll stick to physical discs for the time being.
  
  If you like your HD DVR, kudos to you... You know, if that's so mighty and all (the DVR), the first physical format to die is dvd and i don't see that happening at all.

  19.2.2008 11:56 #36

• MrXenu

  Well said hughjars! Am in total agreeance that BR is definatly not the way forward, for the consumer!
  
  BR is going to turn pretty anti consumer as the 'war' is now over!
  
  Besides HD DVD are still extremely good, especially for upscaling, with there cost good compared with other upscalers, so there is no reason to get rid of them!
  
  I'm sad the war didn't last long enough for M$ to get the onlien download service working better, even though they ahve already started a deal with paramount! Would have liked to see that take off! Alsa the war didn't last long enough!
  
  If M$ bring out a 360 with a BR player in it, that is cheaper than the PS3, i can see the PS3 being destroyed!

  19.2.2008 11:59 #37

• Sazaziel

  Quote: - Anyone with a 32" - 50" HD TV is going to be just fine with HD TV services, downloading high def, downloading ripped high def encodes and upscaled SD DVD
  (which with a 90:1 content advantage - that's both high def formats combined so it's really 180:1 compared to Blu-ray - we'll all be watching new SD DVDs for a long time to come anyways - as well as our existing SD DVD collections).
  
  We don't 'need' Blu-ray and it most certainly is not the only way to get good high def content. hughjars.....love your way of thinking. Point blank....Blu ray is not needed in order to watch HD content. Paramount is going the same route Microsoft is with the Xbox Live HD content download service. Along with this fact and the massive dvd collection that I have. I for one will not be starting my collection over in Blu ray and even as I have hd dvd it still didnt mean that I would waste more money to purchase movies that I already have.
  But hey the people chose and dealing with Sony as always they will pay for it...literally and in any way they can get the money. So you BD fans better stay on the up and up or you'll find your @$$#$ in a lawsuit.

  19.2.2008 12:09 #38

• NexGen76

  Who didn't see this coming after the Warner announcement I'm glad to move on but i wonder are the HD-DVD owners going to get support with some of Toshiba firmwares bricking people players & what about dual format movies that are freezing?
  
  
  I fine it laughable of people bring up upscaled DVD's...Not even in the same neighborhood as Blu-Ray or HD-DVD so stop it because you can't find anyway to justify it.
  
  
  Also downloading BD or HD movies are not what its cracked up to be & you could see your government knocking on your door downloading illegal content you don't own not to mention 720p files are 5 to 7 gigs 1080p files run 10gigs or more who in there right mind going to download all these files without getting a little notice from there ISP or MPAA? Just buy a Blu-Ray player & stop being cheap & buy movies but do some research before you buy it.The risk is not worth the reward.

  19.2.2008 12:09 #39

• Ntolerant

  R.I.P. HD-DVD
  
  And to the individual that said that said about "data being right below surface of media"............Ummmmm............you need to back that claim up with something of substance because I don't think anyone thinks that is true AND regardless IF it is and IF you can confirm that, Sony's discs are virtually indestructible scratch proof. That is a fact and undisputed.

  19.2.2008 12:13 #40

• eatsushi

  ..and the hits keep coming.
  
  Universal is gearing up to go Blu
  
  http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/ht...rticle_id=12118
  
  Quote:At least one of the two studios exclusive to HD DVD is already gearing up to join the other team.
  
  "While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment.
  
  "The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. Universal will continue its aggressive efforts to broaden awareness for hi-def’s unparalleled offerings in interactivity and connectivity, at an increasingly affordable price. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
  Can Paramount be far behind?

  19.2.2008 12:18 #41

• Gnawnivek

  Originally posted by MrXenu: Well said hughjars! Am in total agreeance that BR is definatly not the way forward, for the consumer!why is not for the consumer? just b/c it got complicated layers of copy right protection does make it anti-consumer. Hell, if one of my BDs can't play due to that reason, i'll be (anybody would) all over this.
  
  Originally posted by MrXenu:
  BR is going to turn pretty anti consumer as the 'war' is now over!
  err, i don't understand... so BD is pro-consumer before and now all sudden anti-consumer b/c it won the format war? Look, just b/c BD won the war, it doesn't mean the prior BDs all sudden stop playing.
  
  Originally posted by MrXenu:
  Besides HD DVD are still extremely good, especially for upscaling, with there cost good compared with other upscalers, so there is no reason to get rid of them!
  sigh, nobody said it's not a good upconverter... the point is, the initial purchase is not intended for upconverting, it just turned this way unfortunately. Personally, i'm okay with this reasoning, but it's really a self consolation argument.
  
  Originally posted by MrXenu:
  I'm sad the war didn't last long enough for M$ to get the onlien download service working better, even though they ahve already started a deal with paramount! Would have liked to see that take off! Alsa the war didn't last long enough!
  Again, this has nothing to do with the HD format war... sigh, on-line downloads are on-line downloads, for goodness sake, it just need a hard drive. So even hd-dvd format dies, on-line demands will still continue the way it is...
  
  Originally posted by MrXenu:
  If M$ bring out a 360 with a BR player in it, that is cheaper than the PS3, i can see the PS3 being destroyed!#1, not gonna happen
  #2, even if it does, it will not destroy the PS3 (you gotta be a X360 fanboy to really believe that)
  
  on the other hand, if MS doesn't do something about the X360, it will be destroyed... such as, better option for hdd upgrade, lower Live fees (or even free), RRoD reputation...

  19.2.2008 12:38 #42

• Gnawnivek

  Quote:..and the hits keep coming.
  
  Universal is gearing up to go Blu
  
  http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/ht...rticle_id=12118
  
  Quote:At least one of the two studios exclusive to HD DVD is already gearing up to join the other team.
  
  "While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment.
  
  "The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. Universal will continue its aggressive efforts to broaden awareness for hi-def’s unparalleled offerings in interactivity and connectivity, at an increasingly affordable price. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."
  Can Paramount be far behind?Paramount can't do it yet, b/c they got the deal with MS, unless the terms of the contract can be changed or there's a big IF somewhere...

  19.2.2008 12:45 #43

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Paramount can't do it yet, b/c they got the deal with MS, unless the terms of the contract can be changed or there's a big IF somewhere...I think Paramount is looking for the keys to the warehouse where they kept the BluRay copies of Blades of Glory.

  19.2.2008 12:55 #44

• hughjars

  Originally posted by NexGen76: downloading BD or HD movies are not what its cracked up to be & you could see your government knocking on your door downloading illegal content you don't own - Thanks for that Nextgen but you can keep your threats and you ridiculous '1984' day-dreams to yourself.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Hughjar, you're really something... first you whine about Blu-ray - Er, having legitimate concerns about the regional coding & security intent behind Blu-ray is not "whining".
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: now that it won the format war, you onto something else, HD DVRs. - ....and you'd find, if you looked, that I have been saying for an age that HD TV services are the most likely winner this time around.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: For goodness sake, your freaking HD DVR logics can be easily applied to your beloved hd-dvd format as well. - ........and I have never disputed that HD DVRs alter the market profoundly.
  
  The difference with HD DVD was that thanks to the Twin disc (and to a lesser degree the combo) the switch to high def could be made without leaving anyone behind.
  That can never happen with Blu-ray.
  
  As usual you are not comparing like with like.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Now, with your DVR posts, so what it cost $200, it's not like you don't have to pay monthly premiums for it. - S'funny, first up the Blu-ray fanclub came along sneering at those who don't want to pay Blu-ray prices as 'cheap' but now they imagine they have won something they change tack and are into attacking the 'format' they know is deadly to mass Blu-ray adoption.
  
  Predictable and typical.
  
  My Satellite TV (all channels) is cheap and very affordable and I am by no means very well off.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Secondly, no, my DVR doesn't do HDs and my TV does. - Then stop missing out (I think was your phrase) and get an HD DVR.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Do like like a HD DVR? Sure, as long as my bill is under $50 a month for TV programs. - Don't be so cheap.
  
  My Sky package costs £53/$106 mth for all channels.
  
  But then I like HD on my TV all the time and I want an HD DVR that also upscales all the SD TV to my HD TV.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: You have to understand that it's not that people don't want HD TVs with HD DVRs, even with $200 HD DVRs, you still have to pay the premium and that's the turn off point for me. - I can assure you that it is not working that way here in the UK.
  
  HD TVs are shifting Sky HD services at a rapid rate.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Look, until hard drive format of the movies/shows have extras, subtitles, different language tracks, i'll stick to physical discs for the time being. - Good for you.
  
  I'd lay large amounts of money that given the choice of spending £99/$198 on an HD DVR or £300/$400 on a PS3 (there are no final profile stand-alones for anyone to even look at) and an expensive occasional Blu-ray movie disc @ £18 - £24/$36 - $48 a pop most people will go for the HD DVR with their new HD TV.
  
  HD on your HD TV all the time, you just can't beat it - and certainly not with an occasional movie......which once you've seen it how many more times are you going to watch it in the same month?
  
  HD TV services make a lot more sense and offer so much more content.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: if that's so mighty and all (the DVR), the first physical format to die is dvd and i don't see that happening at all. - Well that's where you're wrong.
  
  The 2nd death in this format war will be Blu-ray, it just isn't aware of it yet and hasn't fallen over yet.
  
  SD DVD will outlast it, largely because it is so very much cheaper & so many of us have large SD DVD collections
  (and they look pretty good upscaled on our 32" - 50" HD TVs).
  
  HD DVD had a chance because it was the complete product & it got cheap enough fast enough.
  Blu-ray isn't & it won't do that.
  
  I like high def as much as anyone.
  
  .....the problem is that with all the 'strings' Blu-ray comes with I'd just really rather not bother with it.
  
  I'll just go elsewhere for my high def content.
  Thanks. ;)
  
  (and I suspect a hell of a lot of us early-adopting HD DVD owners will do likewise)
  
  BTW Paramount have gone in with Microsoft (like many of the studios) and signed up to do the XBox HD downloads.
  We already saw iTunes take only 3 months to catch & pass Blu-ray's sales.
  
  So much for those who claim the nth degree of audio or visual quality is all to the mass-market and that downloads aren't going to amount to much!
  
  The big irony is that we could have had 720p high def on DVD9 years ago and that may well be what we end up with as the dominant form.
  
  It'll be interesting to see if Universal go for region coding & BD+.

  19.2.2008 12:58 #45

• horrabin

  Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
  Paramount can't do it yet, b/c they got the deal with MS, unless the terms of the contract can be changed or there's a big IF somewhere...Paramount sku's have already been turning up in some CE systems.
  
  here's a short article from engadget.

  19.2.2008 13:00 #46

• UkWizard

  Ah well a ps3 for me then. So what will happen with hd-dvd releases then will they stop or is it just the hardware that's being stopped. What about the people who already have hd-dvd players

  19.2.2008 13:11 #47

• 2colors

  I still can't believe BR won. I really thought people would go for the lower cost involved with HDDVD. Now BR can do what they want with prices & BD+ since theres no competition anymore. I really liked the quality of the HD-A20. And to have them send updates in the mail , I thought was great(or the online download). Amazons had a sale going on 50% off of HDDVDs. 14.99 average is less than a regular DVD. I hope the price keeps dropping. I've got a combo BR/HD player in my new computer, but will never buy BR movies because Sony never paid me off. I'll stick with DVD'S & HDDVD'S.

  19.2.2008 13:17 #48

• horrabin

  Originally posted by hughjars:
  I like high def as much as anyone.
  
  .....the problem is that with all the 'strings' Blu-ray comes with I'd just really rather not bother with it.
  
  I'll just go elsewhere for my high def content.
  Thanks. ;)
  
  (and I suspect a hell of a lot of us early-adopting HD DVD owners will
  You know, I just don't understand all the hate. I'm in the states and so I guess none of the blu-ray 'strings' will affect me. I mean, dvd's have region codes and none of that has ever made a difference to me and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, it won't matter on blu-ray, either.
  
  As I've stated, I'm into this for the movies - 1080p - uncompressed audio - plenty of special features - period. I understand brand loyalty but in this case it's moot. I had both formats - now I'll concentrate on blu. No big deal. Hey, Toshiba was the co-creator of the Cell processor in my PS3, anyway so, in a way, I'm still loyal to both sides.
  
  And as far as a lot of hd-dvd early adopters going elsewhere for high-def content, even if they all went, I really don't think 749,999 adopters (minus me, of course) are going to make much of a difference. Then again, if, for whatever reason, they feel so inclined because of some irrational dislike for Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer (only to name a few in the BDA) then I don't think they were in this for the movies to begin with.
  
  Honestly, I truly wish someone could explain the reasons behind the hate and fanaticism over something as innocuous as an entertainment medium.

  19.2.2008 13:27 #49

• hughjars

  Originally posted by horrabin: You know, I just don't understand all the hate. - Well there's your first error.
  
  It's not "hate".
  
  It's a reasoned legitimate series of concerns over the intent behind Blu-ray.
  
  They began intending to recover the margins they once 'enjoyed' when DVD began and their BD+ and watermarking 'security' indicates further drift towards robbing the consumer of their rights.
  
  (.....and note how quickly 'managed copy' has disappeared from this discussion - it was supposed to be one of the legitimate benefits of high def).
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: I'm in the states and so I guess none of the blu-ray 'strings' will affect me. - How do you know?
  
  They haven't really gotten going with it yet.
  
  Would region coding not be something you would be affected by?
  Would a system of 'fair use' & 'managed copy' be something you would not benefit from?
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: I mean, dvd's have region codes and none of that has ever made a difference to me - That's because multi-region DVD has become a norm now, just like the security on DVD has been negated long ago.
  
  Blu-ray has really only just started - but it started by deliberately trying to turn the clock back.
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, it won't matter on blu-ray, either. - You might be inclined to take this stuff on trust but I won't.
  
  There is no 'rule' that says matters will not get worse.
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: if, for whatever reason, they feel so inclined because of some irrational dislike for Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer (only to name a few in the BDA) then I don't think they were in this for the movies to begin with. - You're just using the words "irrational dislike" to avoid addressing the whole matter of previous behaviours (the Rootkits) and the potential Blu-ray has in this regard
  (with the enormous space it allows for all sorts of horrific 'security' possibilities).
  
  Originally posted by horrabin: Honestly, I truly wish someone could explain the reasons behind the hate and fanaticism over something as innocuous as an entertainment medium. - It is not "fanaticism" to be aware of the creep towards ever greater and more expensive (and ultimately pointless) 'security'.
  
  This is particularly so when there is the obvious (ab)use of children in this.
  Their 'football team' (blissfully unaware) type support for a game console has been deliberately used in this to help the push these options through.
  
  The fact that at some undetermined point in the future it may be avoided or overcome is no good reason to willingly embrace it right at the start.

  19.2.2008 13:47 #50

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by horrabin:
  Honestly, I truly wish someone could explain the reasons behind the hate and fanaticism over something as innocuous as an entertainment medium.Good post horrabin.
  
  I think this format war has seen different types of personalities on both sides of the fence:
  
  1. The true high-def movie fan/AV enthusiast/early adopter. This is the guy who has invested a good amount of money on his equipment and has built up his home theater to take advantage of every single technical advance out there: 1080p/24fps, Dolby True HD, DTS HD-MA, etc. These guys appreciate a good movie no matter what format its on. Therefore they usually are dual format people and have both HD DVD and BluRay in their racks. They will continue to support whichever format wins.
  
  2. The brand loyalists/format fanatics. Sad to say but these are the ones who would rather see the other side fail than see high-def media succeed. "If we can't win then neither can you." They already know how good high def media can look in their systems yet they would rather go with what are obviously inferior media such as HD DVR's or low bitrate downloads or even upconverted DVD's.
  
  3. Other types such as the undecideds, the format newcomers, and the innocent bystanders.
  
  The loyalists and fanatics are IMO hopeless cases. It's useless to even try to reason with them.
  
  What BluRay has to do now is the try to get those in the 3rd category to join the fold. It won't be easy but I think the BDA may just have the marketing muscle to do it.

  19.2.2008 14:06 #51

• Sudds

  Thee only problem being with downloadable content is space, time taken to download that content as well, people with there broadband capped, people who dont have broadband and are stuck with or prefer dial-up (god knows why...)
  Granted 500gig hdd are rife these days, and i think 1 terabite drives are on there way, but frankly, i dont think i want a couple of ugly external drives hogging my living room.
  Ask yourself, would you delete content that you downloaded and paid for? I certainly wouldnt, so then thee other option would be to burn it to disc, which sort of brings you back to square one...
  I prefer discs myself, and can say, if they are looked after and not thrown at your arse, they,ll last you a lifetime.

  19.2.2008 14:09 #52

• hughjars

  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Not only i didn't know, even if i know, i'm not dumb enough to think it's all good. Yes, it's probably cheap on the secondary market, but there's still no supports/warranties.
  - Then if warranties & support are your problem buy an LG.
  
  LG are not dropping HD-DVD:
  
  http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.p...c-players.phtml
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: And, worse of all, the players are not streamlined, i.e. you're buying the last gen (i'm sorry, you gotta have some sort of fetish love for your softwares to do something like that). - LMAO
  
  You liked the fetish comment, huh?
  
  If your concern is playing HD DVDs then there are alternatives once the Toshibas go.
  
  You'll also find Toshoba have said they will continue to update firmwares etc as required (and no doubt LG will too).
  
  Originally posted by eatsushi: Sad to say but these are the ones who would rather see the other side fail than see high-def media succeed. "If we can't win then neither can you." They already know how good high def media can look in their systems yet they would rather go with what are obviously inferior media such as HD DVR's or low bitrate downloads or even upconverted DVD's. - .....and why should we accept high def at any cost, hmmmm?
  
  You might disagree with my choices but to pretend that it is merely some unfounded game-saying against the other format just because the one I preferred lost out is ridiculous.
  
  I backed HD DVD because of what it offered.
  
  Just because HD DVD has lost out I will not back Blu-ray, Blu-ray has a hell of a lot wrong with it IMO.
  
  Those 'issues' are not something I will go along with and ignore over (usually) tiny differences in a/v quality.

  19.2.2008 14:09 #53

• horrabin

  Originally posted by hughjars:
  Would region coding not be something you would be affected by?
  Would a system of 'fair use' & 'managed copy' be something you would not benefit from?Originally posted by hughjars:
  - You might be inclined to take this stuff on trust but I won't.
  
  There is no 'rule' that says matters will not get worse.
  
  - You're just using the words "irrational dislike" to avoid addressing the whole matter of previous behaviours (the Rootkits) and the potential Blu-ray has in this regard
  (with the enormous space it allows for all sorts of horrific 'security' possibilities).
  
  - It is not "fanaticism" to be aware of the creep towards ever greater and more expensive (and ultimately pointless) 'security'.
  
  This is particularly so when there is the obvious (ab)use of children in this.
  Their 'football team' (blissfully unaware) type support for a game console has been deliberately used in this to help the push these options through.
  
  The fact that at some undetermined point in the future it may be avoided or overcome is no good reason to willingly embrace it right at the start.Fine - I give. Just like you'll never see things from my perspective, I'll obviously never see things from yours. I'm not as serious minded or conspiracy driven - the things that tend to occupy the worry areas of my brain are much larger than movie media security or whether a video game system was used to help sales of a new media format. I realize Sony had the rootkit debacle but that still wouldn't have affected me and says nothing about Panasonic, Pioneer or the other blu-ray supporters. I like movies - I like video games and if something goes wrong with one of them, I replace it. I worry about things like our economy (and God knows I spend a lot to support it) or Darfur and when I don't want to worry I watch a movie or play a video game.
  Now, when your security issues grow so large that I can't watch or play, then I'll have some major issues, but as long as I can go to Amazon on a Monday, preorder a movie like, "The Dark Knight", receive and watch it in high def on Friday and then put in on a shelf to be enjoyed whenever I see fit, thereafter, then I really don't have any problems.

  19.2.2008 14:32 #54

• Gnawnivek

  Approximately $100 USD a month and that's not cheap? And it doesn't even have close captioned feature/subtitles, audio options, or multi-language tracks? Sorry, on a limited budget, that's the first thing on the list to go. While i can afford it, but i don't see the benefit for me at all... You see, it's not like you can suspend your service for a month here or there, you have to pay even you don't watch anything for the month (you have this freedom with physical media purchases). Anyhow, everybody's cup of tea is different so move on...
  
  I don't understand the argument that hd-dvds are cheaper, do you mean the players? B/C the softwares are priced same, except in hd-dvd, there are combos (which i hate, only if it's on a separate disc in the same case and for the same price). As you can see, cheaper player doesn't give hd-dvd an upper edge!
  

  So many dvds, not enough times...

  19.2.2008 14:33 #55

• Oner

  Originally posted by horrabin: ....dvd's have region codes and none of that has ever made a difference to me and I'm pretty sure that, eventually, it won't matter on blu-ray, either.
  
  As I've stated, I'm into this for the movies - 1080p - uncompressed audio - plenty of special features - period. I understand brand loyalty but in this case it's moot. I had both formats - now I'll concentrate on blu. No big deal. Hey, Toshiba was the co-creator of the Cell processor in my PS3, anyway so, in a way, I'm still loyal to both sides.
  
  And as far as a lot of hd-dvd early adopters going elsewhere for high-def content, even if they all went, I really don't think 749,999 adopters (minus me, of course) are going to make much of a difference. Then again, if, for whatever reason, they feel so inclined because of some irrational dislike for Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer (only to name a few in the BDA) then I don't think they were in this for the movies to begin with.
  
  Honestly, I truly wish someone could explain the reasons behind the hate and fanaticism over something as innocuous as an entertainment medium.
  Originally posted by horrabin: Fine - I give. Just like you'll never see things from my perspective, I'll obviously never see things from yours. I'm not as serious minded or conspiracy driven - the things that tend to occupy the worry areas of my brain are much larger than movie media security or whether a video game system was used to help sales of a new media format. I realize Sony had the rootkit debacle but that still wouldn't have affected me and says nothing about Panasonic, Pioneer or the other blu-ray supporters. I like movies - I like video games and if something goes wrong with one of them, I replace it. I worry about things like our economy (and God knows I spend a lot to support it) or Darfur and when I don't want to worry I watch a movie or play a video game.
  Now, when your security issues grow so large that I can't watch or play, then I'll have some major issues, but as long as I can go to Amazon on a Monday, preorder a movie like, "The Dark Knight", receive and watch it in high def on Friday and then put in on a shelf to be enjoyed whenever I see fit, thereafter, then I really don't have any problems.
  Excellent posts but you are wasting your time and words upon on deaf ears, as no point that anybody has made in MANY different threads has EVER been acknowledged as true by some...not even a small post saying that people where right that Blu-Ray would win. Seriously.
  

  
  
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  19.2.2008 14:52 #56

• windsong

  Good, now maybe we will see Jurassic Park on Blu. That is if Universal gets off their asses..

  19.2.2008 15:06 #57

• res2cue

  why bother "reducing" shipments? Who's going to buy and HD DVD products now?

  19.2.2008 15:10 #58

• Gnawnivek

  Originally posted by hughjars: Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Not only i didn't know, even if i know, i'm not dumb enough to think it's all good. Yes, it's probably cheap on the secondary market, but there's still no supports/warranties.
  - Then if warranties & support are your problem buy an LG.
  
  LG are not dropping HD-DVD:
  
  http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.p...c-players.phtml
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: And, worse of all, the players are not streamlined, i.e. you're buying the last gen (i'm sorry, you gotta have some sort of fetish love for your softwares to do something like that). - LMAO
  
  You liked the fetish comment, huh?
  
  If your concern is playing HD DVDs then there are alternatives once the Toshibas go.
  
  You'll also find Toshoba have said they will continue to update firmwares etc as required (and no doubt LG will too).
  
  Originally posted by eatsushi: Sad to say but these are the ones who would rather see the other side fail than see high-def media succeed. "If we can't win then neither can you." They already know how good high def media can look in their systems yet they would rather go with what are obviously inferior media such as HD DVR's or low bitrate downloads or even upconverted DVD's. - .....and why should we accept high def at any cost, hmmmm?
  
  You might disagree with my choices but to pretend that it is merely some unfounded game-saying against the other format just because the one I preferred lost out is ridiculous.
  
  I backed HD DVD because of what it offered.
  
  Just because HD DVD has lost out I will not back Blu-ray, Blu-ray has a hell of a lot wrong with it IMO.
  
  Those 'issues' are not something I will go along with and ignore over (usually) tiny differences in a/v quality.
  Fine Hughjar fine, however your views are constructed, maybe only you can see them... and no thanks on the LG recommendation, why would anyone want to continue buying a dead format hardware? Put it this way, you got the player but there's no software, simple! Even LG continue with hd-dvd players, so what? At this point, i'm happy about my hd-dvd collection and yes, i'm pissed that there will be no more supports/warranties from Toshiba. Who gives a damn about LG? Do i have a LG hd-dvd player? No! Do i want one? No! Do i even care at this point? No!
  
  I think the mod is right, i'm gonna go browse some BD titles and actually enjoy something tonight rather than trying to understand what you're saying Hughjar.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  So many dvds, not enough times...

  19.2.2008 15:48 #59

• horrabin

  Originally posted by Oner:
  Excellent posts but you are wasting your time and words upon on deaf ears, as no point that anybody has made in MANY different threads has EVER been acknowledged as true by some...not even a small post saying that people where right that Blu-Ray would win. Seriously.Thanks and I realize what you're saying.
  
  I'm just really happy that I don't live in the same dystopia as some of the other folks who peruse this locale.

  19.2.2008 15:48 #60

• camaro17

  if anyone says anything about hughjarsim gonna kisk their a$$, i hate how people rip on him, i gave that up, whats the point, do you guys get anything out of it besides fights and bans? just leave him alone ok. he didnt pick the looser format, he just picked the format he believed in and the market turned it around, so everyone thats gonna make a bad comment about him piss off!
  
  Peace(to all including hd-dvd fans)

  19.2.2008 15:52 #61

• hughjars

  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Approximately $100 USD a month and that's not cheap? - Do you know how many 100 HD movies, major live sports events & TV shows that is a month.....compared to what, the 3, 4 or 5 BD discs (if there are still deals going on, if I was lucky) I could buy?
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: And it doesn't even have close captioned feature/subtitles, audio options, or multi-language tracks? - As an English speaker I don't need subtitles (and where the movie is non-English subs are provided).
  
  I do get audio options, 2ch stereo or 5.1 Dolby Digital.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: You see, it's not like you can suspend your service for a month here or there, you have to pay even you don't watch anything for the month (you have this freedom with physical media purchases). - Why would I want to do that?
  I watch umteen movies in HD every month (as well as large amounts of National Geographic HD, Discovery HD, Sky Anytime HD, Sky Movies HD, Sky Sports HD, BBC HD, Channel 4 HD.
  
  I get a lot out of it and I have never taken a month off in over 15yrs as a subscriber, as you might imagine.
  
  In any event I can drop parts of my package if I wanted to, month by month.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Anyhow, everybody's cup of tea is different so move on... - Indeed, that's one reason why many like myself will never buy a PS3 for our high def.
  
  We just do not want a game console.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: I don't understand the argument that hd-dvds are cheaper, do you mean the players? - Of course. Player pricing is enormously different.
  
  Even with the old claim that the cheapest HD DVD players are 'only' 720p/1080i that quickly became irrelevant as the 1080p HD A/EP30 prices fell sharply.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: B/C the softwares are priced same, except in hd-dvd, there are combos (which i hate, only if it's on a separate disc in the same case and for the same price). - Lots of people liked combos.
  They disliked the price differential of course.
  They made for a very handy little disc that was very versatile and you did not have to double-dip when wanting to play a movie on you SD DVD kit (which so many of us still have).
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: As you can see, cheaper player doesn't give hd-dvd an upper edge! - TBH I don't think any those obvious qualities had anything to do with it in the end.
  
  I have a sneaking suspicion that Warner were telling the truth.
  They wanted one format quickly.
  They tried to get 2 other studios to move to format neutrality with them if they went HD DVD exclusive (Fox & Disney are the likely 2) cos they believed that would see HD DVD have enough studio support in addition to it's cost advantages etc etc to win as the single format in short order.
  
  When the studios refused and that did not happen they just went Blu-ray.
  
  I think they know Blu-ray is set to be the single disc-based format but one stuck mainly revolving around the PS3 niche, although with sales larger than they would have got with HD DVD alone for a long time.
  The vast pile of money that was on the table compensated them for the loss of the HD DVD sales their no longer being neutral would take from them.
  
  Like I said my view is that both formats have lost, it's just not so obvious yet.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: no thanks on the LG recommendation, why would anyone want to continue buying a dead format hardware? - Well you were the one here asking about new hardware if your HD DVD player broke down and when it was pointed out that HD DVD hardware would still be available you then complained about a lack of support & warranties.
  
  I supplied you with info on LG continuing to support HD DVD so you would be able to get a player with a full warranty and support.
  
  Sorry, I took you at your word & didn't realise you were not serious.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Put it this way, you got the player but there's no software, simple! - Hardly.
  
  There are almost 500 HD DVD titles in the west out now (800+ worldwide).
  I personally own just less than 10% of that total.
  
  There's plenty of content I can still get and would want to play.
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: Even LG continue with hd-dvd players, so what? At this point, i'm happy about my hd-dvd collection and yes, i'm pissed that there will be no more supports/warranties from Toshiba. Who gives a damn about LG? - Er, you're the one who complained about what might happen in future with your HD DVD player.
  
  If it is still in warranty then Toshiba will still support it - just as they have said they will still issue firmware support where needed.
  
  If it's out of warranty then you will still have the option of a new player.
  
  That's why I mentioned the LG. Isn't it obvious?
  
  Originally posted by Gnawnivek: i'm gonna go browse some BD titles and actually enjoy something tonight rather than trying to understand what you're saying Hughjar. - Enjoy!
  
  Unfortunately you seem unable to work out that this is an exchange of view.
  I understand your view but I don't agree with it.
  
  But I don't understand why you'd bring up stuff about HD DVD players breaking down and not being able to buy replacement players with a proper warranty and then when I supply info to satisfy that enquiry you talk as if that info is irrelevant.

  19.2.2008 16:00 #62

• hulud86

  YES its finally officially over!!!

  19.2.2008 16:09 #63

• NexGen76

  Originally posted by hughjars: Originally posted by NexGen76: downloading BD or HD movies are not what its cracked up to be & you could see your government knocking on your door downloading illegal content you don't own
  
  - Thanks for that Nextgen but you can keep your threats and you ridiculous '1984' day-dreams to yourself.I'm sorry if you have no respect for copyright laws but what i said wasn't a threat its a promise & you see it yourself everyday on this site news tread ,so if you like living on the edge so be it.How can anyone have a open mind to what you post when you are promoting piracy but have a problem with copy protection & call Blu-Ray anti-consumer? Go figure that one.So i guess because HD-DVD copy protection has been cracked that make it consumer friendly.
  
  
  How is it that you don't have a problem with SD DVD having region coding but have a issue with BD having it? That don't make any sense Hughjars does it?

  19.2.2008 16:12 #64

• Icanbe

  Quote:
  Fine - I give. Just like you'll never see things from my perspective, I'll obviously never see things from yours. I'm not as serious minded or conspiracy driven - the things that tend to occupy the worry areas of my brain are much larger than movie media security or whether a video game system was used to help sales of a new media format. I realize Sony had the rootkit debacle but that still wouldn't have affected me and says nothing about Panasonic, Pioneer or the other blu-ray supporters. I like movies - I like video games and if something goes wrong with one of them, I replace it. I worry about things like our economy (and God knows I spend a lot to support it) or Darfur and when I don't want to worry I watch a movie or play a video game.
  Now, when your security issues grow so large that I can't watch or play, then I'll have some major issues, but as long as I can go to Amazon on a Monday, preorder a movie like, "The Dark Knight", receive and watch it in high def on Friday and then put in on a shelf to be enjoyed whenever I see fit, thereafter, then I really don't have any problems.
  @Horrabin
  You are 100% right, there are much more important things to worry about in life than a 12cm piece of plastic.
  
  As long as I can go to a store and purchase my movies or video games and pop in my machine and play them, I'm more than content.
  
  Last point, Why do you think these companies put so much protection on their products in the first place? To stop blant theft of their products, Don't get me wrong I have no problem with people making legitment backup copies, But lets face it, there is so much theft of these products, people almost force the companies to do this type of thing.
  @NEXGEN76
  I agree with you about d/ling these kinda files, It will get you caught sooner or later, Like you said, don't be so cheap, just go buy your stuff or do without.

  19.2.2008 16:14 #65

• nMIK3

  Enjoy this hilarious video regarding HD format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD!

  19.2.2008 16:20 #66

• hughjars

  Originally posted by nextgen76: I'm sorry if you have no respect for copyright laws - No, I don't.
  
  They have become thoroughly corrupted and do nothing to protect the artist as they were originally intended.
  They are merely a vehicle for an abuse of power over people who have done nothing criminal but want to see or hear music or a movie at the tme of their own convenience.
  
  Originally posted by nextgen76: but what i said wasn't a threat its a promise & you see it yourself everyday on this site news tread ,so if you like living on the edge so be it. - Your big-brother fascist state isn't here yet.
  There are way too many of 'us' for 'them' to monitor all thetime.
  
  Originally posted by nextgen76: How can anyone have a open mind to what you post when you are promoting piracy - How is saying I am all for file sharing 'promoting piracy'?
  
  I have never copied, sold on and profited someone else's work - which is what actual piracy is.
  
  Originally posted by nextgen76: but have a problem with copy protection & call Blu-Ray anti-consumer? - Blu-ray has several layers of copy protection (that's simply a fact).
  
  It is anti-consumer.
  It was intended to restore profit margins to the CE corps to levels they had when DVD began.
  It has a system of region coding designed to ensure each market can be controled and milked much more easily.
  It also treats every consumer as a potential thief.
  
  Originally posted by nextgen76: So i guess because HD-DVD copy protection has been cracked that make it consumer friendly. - Obviously. That and the lack of region coding.
  
  Originally posted by nextgen76: How is it that you don't have a problem with SD DVD having region coding but have a issue with BD having it? - Er, because you'd have to be about 5 or the most inept twit ever to get caught up in SD DVD region coding.
  
  Like it's copy protection it's region coding is meaningless.
  
  Originally posted by nextgen76: That don't make any sense Hughjars does it? - If you'd actually though about for a few seconds it really ought to have.
  
  I guess that just says more about your own critical thought processes though.

  19.2.2008 16:28 #67

• vinny13

  Originally posted by nMIK3: Enjoy this hilarious video regarding HD format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD!
  LMAO a classic :P
  

  (+[PSP]%) = 3.52M33-4
  
  "I get no respect, I tell ya!"

  19.2.2008 16:34 #68

• Sazaziel

  Blu ray winning the so called "format war" is fine with me but it undermines the point of the Sony backed intentions. If I am understanding this correctly...what do all of us as members have in common on AfterDawn (even before there was any government intervention)? This link in this post has me totally agreeing with sags. This is why I am here. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/198934
  
  I agree with any BD fan. It looks and sounds good as well as did HD DVD but, there is no conspiracy behind the intentions of a company like Sony. This is one big corporation that has its hand in almost everything consumer based worldwide. Like every global corporate giant the motivation will always be the same....money! Is there anyone on this site who felt it was wrong for any of us to backup a product that we paid for...or if a newbie couldn't figure it out we would post our help. I remember when Resident Evil 2 came out and dvd decrypter nor anydvd could break the new ARccoS. It took me 12 hrs to crack including coming up with a valid PDL file to bypass the protection. Those were the days. If anyone on this site doesn't believe in that type of freedom...then what are you here for.
  
  Anyways for any of you tech geeks like myself who are willing to understand more about the blu ray security and why it hasn't been compromised you can check out info from pc programmers in this link. www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/01/bluray_cracked.html
  
  I'm way beyond my whole point but I'm just stating that until it is compromised...anyone supporting BD will be paying out of pocket. For the record some of you need to get your facts straight. The Durabis coating is not indestructible. In june of 2007 the coating was found to be rotting on the disc which in turn made the discs vulnerable but the data still played on the players. Thats why a quality control program was implimented into the BD cam last month.

  19.2.2008 16:37 #69

• Sudds

  LMFAO!!!
  That is pure class right there!
  

  
  
  3.03 OE-C
  3.40 OE-A
  Gameboots
  Recovery 1.50
  Remote Play for 3.71 M33-3
  VIA6421 SATA Drivers

  19.2.2008 16:41 #70

• SProdigy

  Holy freakin' cow are some people ornery in here!
  
  For those of you who read my comments, I have not adopted either side in this format war. I've always stood upon the fact that I can upscale SD DVD's or enjoy my newly purchased DirecTV HD-DVR.
  
  I have moved in the last month, so I can honestly tell you that both Armstrong, and Time Warner Cable HD services are SERIOUSLY lacking. DirecTV is offering more channels, plus the DVR advertises 80 hours of recording, and can be upgraded by adding an external eSata drive or removing the original internal drive. (Plus the advertised OTA add-on coming shortly will allow my DVR to work with ALL OTA local channels, some that are not carried by DTV.)
  
  Not to mention that with the use of TVersity, I can stream content from my PC to either my HD-DVR or my Xbox 360.
  
  Several good points were made by HughJars and others on here:
  
  - The name "Blu-Ray" is stupid.
  - There is a ton of non-BD HD content out there if you know where to look.
  - Blu-Ray Forum IS looking to recoup profits they have lost from discounted DVD prices, PLUS "PIRACY" (oh no, not that DIRTY word!)
  
  Yes, "they" believe that the internet (invented by Al Gore) is responsible for their losses. By jacking up the size of the discs, they take longer to download (discouraging to some), plus the new media gives them an excuse to create a DRM format that cannot be implemented with DVD, and "should" be unbreakable. (This promise has swayed some of the studios.)
  
  I am looking forward to the remaining HD-DVD studios reaction and seeing if they will decide to go "Blu". Don't forget, studios such as Disney weren't staunch DVD supporters at first, and went the Divx route. With HD discs having trouble topping VHS sales, I can't see these studios quickly sinking more money into HD ventures immediately.

  19.2.2008 16:44 #71

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by SProdigy: I am looking forward to the remaining HD-DVD studios reaction and seeing if they will decide to go "Blu". Universal has already announced its intention to release movies in BluRay format.
  
  http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/U...s_Goes_Blu/1483
  
  An announcement from Paramount/Dreamworks is expected shortly.
  
  http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/19/par...lms-on-blu-ray/
  
  Originally posted by SProdigy: I can't see these studios quickly sinking more money into HD ventures immediately.
  They don't want to be left out of the profits either.

  19.2.2008 16:54 #72

• Sazaziel

  NextGen76 not to take shots at you but you might want to watch what you say by stating someone is promoting piracy. Thats almost as if you were accusing every member on this site of piracy but, of course in your opinion. For example....if I let you borrow a disc of mine so you could copy it to file or burn it to disc I wouldn't accuse you of promoting piracy especially considering that I am taking something that I purchased and shared it with you. If you believe differently than why are you here.
  
  Piracy had always been the illegal sales of a copyrighted product for profit. Companies considered file sharing as piracy by changing the rules themselves. We called it as it is...file sharing. It was once purchased and then shared freely to everyone who wanted it. Since companies felt they made no profit from it they in turn called us the criminals.
  
  Sorry everyone...not to get off subject.

  19.2.2008 16:59 #73

• canuckerz

  Originally posted by SProdigy: - The name "Blu-Ray" is stupid.
  - There is a ton of non-BD HD content out there if you know where to look.
  - Blu-Ray Forum IS looking to recoup profits they have lost from discounted DVD prices, PLUS "PIRACY"
  1.)Hey I like the name; you can speak for yourselves but not everyone.
  2.)Of course, it's called the Internet.
  3.)Any company would do that, what is the point of having a company if you don't make a profit in the end. It's not like either of the formats were open source so you can't say that HD-DVD supporting companies wouldnt have done the same if they had won. Sony isn't the only supposed big bad company out there no matter what one would want to believe.

  19.2.2008 17:47 #74

• Leningrad

  Ever since from the time when it was announced that Warner is dropping HDDVD I knew that inevitably HDDVD will eventually founder. It will not be long before Paramount and Universal will make a response to Toshiba's decision. Simultaneously, we will start seeing Blu-Ray movies replacing the HDDVD boxes at your local retailer. More interesting is the consumer response that will be generated sooner or later, In order to avoid that fury I believe Toshiba should contract its backers to produce HDDVD movies until the production of all HDDVD devices- Player or Recorder- has ceased. This way hopefully to decrease the impact of the consumer anger. But of course, It is Toshiba's problem and not mine. Personally, It was stupit to introduce this format anyway. Blu-Rays victory had its roots not in the PS3 but its technical advantage. Consumers are like guinea pigs (They always want the best), If it was true that Toshiba made matching or better technical specs they wouuld have more of a advantage in the market. But the format war is over (which is good), we will not be seeing dumb articles overflowing our news providers about whose backing and not.
  
  I always knew Blue-Ray would win because its 'better'

  19.2.2008 19:14 #75

• Ludikhris

  1) I had a discussion with some "common consumer" friends about HDDVD and BluRay and though I believed HDDVD a better name due to its assimilation with DVD they overwhelming said BluRay sounds like a new step in technology and more "futuristic" than HDDVD which just sounded like some new twist on the same old thing. I found it interesting.
  
  Hughjars your last comment sounds like a personal attack against nexgen to me. I'd watch out, people are getting in trouble for less than that on these hot topics.

  19.2.2008 20:24 #76

• Ludikhris

  Oh yeah and about this whole "HDTV + DVR and Upscaling Vs BluRay or HDDVD" in my super premium taste HDTV is crap right now. Here in Seattle we have a handful of channels available and none of them are very good. Good movies are only on premium channels and even then you selection is what "they" want you to watch that month. Upscaling is a duct tape solution for real HD. If you aren't watching DL HD, BluRay, or HD-DVD then you are "settling". I am not going to settle for second best. Are you?

  19.2.2008 20:29 #77

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Leningrad: Ever since from the time when it was announced that Warner is dropping HDDVD I knew that inevitably HDDVD will eventually founder. It will not be long before Paramount and Universal will make a response to Toshiba's decision. Simultaneously, we will start seeing Blu-Ray movies replacing the HDDVD boxes at your local retailer. More interesting is the consumer response that will be generated sooner or later, In order to avoid that fury I believe Toshiba should contract its backers to produce HDDVD movies until the production of all HDDVD devices- Player or Recorder- has ceased. This way hopefully to decrease the impact of the consumer anger. But of course, It is Toshiba's problem and not mine. Personally, It was stupit to introduce this format anyway. Blu-Rays victory had its roots not in the PS3 but its technical advantage. Consumers are like guinea pigs (They always want the best), If it was true that Toshiba made matching or better technical specs they wouuld have more of a advantage in the market. But the format war is over (which is good), we will not be seeing dumb articles overflowing our news providers about whose backing and not.
  
  I always knew Blue-Ray would win because its 'better'Not really despite the cost of it BR/Sony played a better game and bought off more companies and still despiting having nearly 10X more players they only sold 2-3 more films.
  
  BR didn't win they bought the market by force, but thats just part of how its played.

  19.2.2008 20:35 #78

• SamNz

  alright, damn this is a long thread.
  Blu-ray may be filled with DRM etc, but its more than likely that the average joe consumer wouldn't be too bothered by it, and all those that bitch bout how u cant copy/rip it, are prolly too poor to buy originals.
  THANK GOD THE FORMAT WAR ITS OVER FOR THE MOST PART

  19.2.2008 22:34 #79

• Leningrad

  Originally posted by Ludikhris: 1) I had a discussion with some "common consumer" friends about HDDVD and BluRay and though I believed HDDVD a better name due to its assimilation with DVD they overwhelming said BluRay sounds like a new step in technology and more "futuristic" than HDDVD which just sounded like some new twist on the same old thing. I found it interesting.
  
  Hughjars your last comment sounds like a personal attack against nexgen to me. I'd watch out, people are getting in trouble for less than that on these hot topics.Yes I actually think HDDVD is a better name than Blu-Ray. Even the name 'blu' is misleading, the laser is violet.

  19.2.2008 23:19 #80

• banshee07

  Quote:Originally posted by Ludikhris: 1) I had a discussion with some "common consumer" friends about HDDVD and BluRay and though I believed HDDVD a better name due to its assimilation with DVD they overwhelming said BluRay sounds like a new step in technology and more "futuristic" than HDDVD which just sounded like some new twist on the same old thing. I found it interesting.
  
  Hughjars your last comment sounds like a personal attack against nexgen to me. I'd watch out, people are getting in trouble for less than that on these hot topics.Yes I actually think HDDVD is a better name than Blu-Ray. Even the name 'blu' is misleading, the laser is violet.
  405nm (blue laser) laser is blue

  19.2.2008 23:29 #81

• SProdigy

  Originally posted by Ludikhris: Oh yeah and about this whole "HDTV + DVR and Upscaling Vs BluRay or HDDVD" in my super premium taste HDTV is crap right now. Here in Seattle we have a handful of channels available and none of them are very good. Good movies are only on premium channels and even then you selection is what "they" want you to watch that month. Upscaling is a duct tape solution for real HD. If you aren't watching DL HD, BluRay, or HD-DVD then you are "settling". I am not going to settle for second best. Are you?I half agree. Good points. I was settling before I got my DirecTV. Because I have a DVR, I am recording what "I" want, and watch it on "my terms, so I wouldn't consider it settling, however, you do make some valid points, and I feel your pain. Like I said, I was with 2 other cable providers in the last 10 months, and never had more than a dozen or so "non-premium" HD channels to watch up until I made the switch a few weeks ago.
  
  I'm not going out on a limb and stating that the selection on DirecTV is perfect either, but at least they are making an effort. It's the networks themselves. Mark Cuban (founder of HDNet) had a blog awhile back about how most of the content on the HD channels are not, in fact, "HD". That's the real kick in the pants, plus some of the OTA channels (ABC for instance) have their programs flip in and out of HD from time to time (has happened while watching Lost quite a few times.)

  19.2.2008 23:29 #82

• hade

  Originally posted by eatsushi:
  
  I think this format war has seen different types of personalities on both sides of the fence:
  
  1. The true high-def movie fan/AV enthusiast/early adopter. This is the guy who has invested a good amount of money on his equipment and has built up his home theater to take advantage of every single technical advance out there: 1080p/24fps, Dolby True HD, DTS HD-MA, etc. These guys appreciate a good movie no matter what format its on. Therefore they usually are dual format people and have both HD DVD and BluRay in their racks. They will continue to support whichever format wins.
  
  2. The brand loyalists/format fanatics. Sad to say but these are the ones who would rather see the other side fail than see high-def media succeed. "If we can't win then neither can you." They already know how good high def media can look in their systems yet they would rather go with what are obviously inferior media such as HD DVR's or low bitrate downloads or even upconverted DVD's.
  
  3. Other types such as the undecideds, the format newcomers, and the innocent bystanders.
  
  The loyalists and fanatics are IMO hopeless cases. It's useless to even try to reason with them.
  
  What BluRay has to do now is the try to get those in the 3rd category to join the fold. It won't be easy but I think the BDA may just have the marketing muscle to do it.
  im surprised that no one really commented on this post, but then again i probably shouldn't be. interesting breakdown and i'd have to agree with what was said.
  
  i think the BDA may have it a little easier than some think. demand for HDTVs is increasing, prices for HDTVS are decreasing, blu-ray demand is increasing, blu-ray player prices are deceasing, and when you consider the number of American households that don't own an HDTV, well i think you see the larger picture. i guarantee you that every time a retailer sells an HDTV the salesman will be pushing Blu-ray. certainly its fair to say, its quite hard for retailers to sell blu-ray to nonHDTV owners when compared to HDTV owners. so in essence the increasing market demand for HDTVs will help influence/push Blu-ray onto the masses. im not positive but i do not think that the MAJORITY of American HouseHolds own an HDTV which only supports my reasoning. i could be wrong, but i see this market making huge strides in the next year or so. especially if we see some affordable players this holiday season, like we saw with HD-DVD.
  
  there was a news article about an expected 10% increase in ps3 sales simply from the outcome of the format war.
  
  now the only announcement im waiting on is when paramount is going Blu
  
  Quote:"While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment.EDIT: AD needs a story on UNIVERSAL'S TRANSITION to BLU-RAY

  20.2.2008 00:04 #83

• DieMPAA

  Finally, we can have some peace and quiet.

  20.2.2008 00:53 #84

• juankerr

  Watch the Funeral of a Dead Format (courtesy of G4):
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDs5ZvJKhhk

  20.2.2008 08:23 #85

• juankerr

  A no-brainer but here's the announcement from amazon.com. Their stance will be similar to that of Best Buy.
  
  http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/...=20080220005406
  
  Quote:Amazon.com to Support Blu-ray as the Digital Format of Choice for Customers
  SEATTLE--(BUSINESS WIRE)--In an effort to help demystify high-definition entertainment for consumers, Amazon.com, Inc. (NASDAQ:AMZN) today announced its support for Blu-ray as the digital format of choice for customers. As part of this announcement, Amazon.com will more prominently promote Blu-ray hardware and software products on its website.
  
  “The high-definition landscape is rapidly changing, and consumers are looking for guidance on how to make the best high-definition buying decisions,” said Peter Faricy, vice president of movies and music at Amazon.com. “Our customers have clearly voiced their support for the Blu-ray format. Blu-ray titles have increased from just over half of our high-definition sales to over three-quarters of our high-definition sales since early January. In order to best serve our customers, Amazon is recommending Blu-ray as the preferred digital format and will continue to carry the ‘Earth’s Largest Selection’ of Blu-ray products.”
  
  Amazon.com currently carries a wide array of Blu-ray hardware and software products including players, Blu-ray discs, and the Sony PlayStation 3. For the hundreds of thousands of HD DVD owners who may still wish to purchase products for that format, Amazon will continue to carry a wide assortment of HD DVD products, including the broadest selection of HD DVD movie titles.
  

  20.2.2008 09:03 #86

• error5

  Originally posted by hade: im surprised that no one really commented on this post, but then again i probably shouldn't be. interesting breakdown and i'd have to agree with what was said. hade: I also agree with what was said.
  
  You have to ask: If the fanatics are now trumpeting HD-DVR's and upconversion, then why did they buy into HD DVD in the first place? Seems quite puzzling, isn't it?
  
  The more open-minded HD DVD supporters that I know are now planning their first BluRay players purchase. They still want physical media and appreciate the technical equivalence of the two formats. Upconversion is simply a no-go for them.

  20.2.2008 09:38 #87

• Icanbe

  Originally posted by error5:
  The more open-minded HD DVD supporters that I know are now planning their first BluRay players purchase. They still want physical media and appreciate the technical equivalence of the two formats. Upconversion is simply a no-go for them.Excatly error5
  
  I own a HD-DvD player and purchased a blu-ray player a couple weeks ago, I'm more than happy with the blu-ray player so far(seems to even look a little better than HD-DvD,shhhhhhhh).
  
  I want the physical media, I really don't want to have to go out a buy a new H/D every time I fill one up with movies.
  
  And your right upconversion looks ok, but it just seems to lack the clarity and clean look of HD-DvD and Blu-ray.
  
  But anyway, if people refuse to buy a blu-ray player, I guess it's their loss.
  
  Peace
  

  http://www.dvdspot.com/member=morguex

  20.2.2008 10:27 #88

• Gnawnivek

  Error5, yeap yeap, i don't understand those fanatics as well...
  
  Like i said, all of those "upconverting" arguments are pretty much self consolations. And for those arguments like "it's not like the hd-dvds will stop working or something..." Sorry, it's pretty much self consolations as well. Of course they still work, nobody is saying they won't! Like i said, there will be no supports for it and that's the blow where it hurts... What does that mean? Well, there will be no new titles (yeah, stick to what's out there is a really good choice), and no streamlined hd-dvd players down the road (will we ever see a slimmed hd-dvd player?). So what LG still gonna make hd-dvd players? Do you honestly think hd-dvd still has a chance of coming back after all the blows?
  
  As to preferring HD DVRs, sure, that's another way of getting HD contents, no arguments there. However, like i said before, it will not replace BD or hd-dvd (i.e. those formats will not die b/c HD broadcasts availability). If DVR or HD DVR is the preferred way, then DVD is a dying format by now isn't it?
  
  As to the Blu-ray name, i don't find it stupid at all... It has no association to dvd, which serves the intended purpose. Hi-Def is not dvd! Hi-Def contents can be stored on DVD discs (shorter playing time), but in general, dvds are not meant or known for Hi-Def contents.
  
  Now, as to why AD members supporting a format that's harder to hack and what nots... Well, maybe for once, some people don't really want to backup discs anymore? b/c waste of time, but still like to see/hear people can do it? And what about the all for the challenge attitude huh? What about all those talks about "how long do you think BD gonna get cracked?"
  
  I have something to confess... In the past, when i backup my dvds, i actually enjoy the process of being able to backup the disc more than actually watching the contents on the disc. I still remember the jumping boy, good stuffs... However, i have to say, life is too short for something like that :)
  
  
  

  So many dvds, not enough times...

  20.2.2008 10:40 #89

• eatsushi

  Add another one to the list of Blu hardware makers - OPPO:
  
  http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/20/opp...blu-ray-player/
  
  Quote:Oppo next to create a new Blu-ray player
  Posted Feb 20th 2008 8:19AM by Richard Lawler
  Oppo fans left on the HD format sidelines can rejoice, as word comes that the company will add a Blu-ray player to its well-received line of DVD upscalers. According to the VP of product development, the company is "very early" in their development cycle, and we should expect more details sometime this summer. While sooner would definitely be better than later, we can't argue with a timeline that leads us to expect nothing less than a fully featured BD Live compatible player from a company with a reputation for delivering more bang for the buck.

  20.2.2008 12:12 #90

• BluKiller

  well hd-dvd isnt "officialy" dead yet... but i think we all know whos going to win

  20.2.2008 21:21 #91

• Ludikhris

  I guess that depends on your definition of "dead". Mine is "discontinued".... so in my world, it's dead.

  20.2.2008 21:46 #92

• vinny13

  Originally posted by Ludikhris: I guess that depends on your definition of "dead". Mine is "discontinued".... so in my world, it's dead.lol :P

  20.2.2008 23:20 #93

• hade

  it is being reported that PARAMOUNT has OFFICIALLY GONE BLU.
  
  Quote:Paramount Home Entertainment quietly came onboard via a statement sent exclusively to The Hollywood Reporter on Wednesday: "We are pleased that the industry is moving to a single high-definition format, as we believe it is in the best interest of the consumer," the statement reads. "As we look to (begin) releasing our titles on Blu-ray, we will monitor consumer adoption and determine our release plans accordingly.now all 6 major studios are BLU
  
  hopefully they release Transformers on Blu-ray soon.
  
  Also Amazon has announced they too have made Blu-ray their high definition format of choice. surely nothing surprising but those looking for an HD-DVD player may want to pick one up soon. retailers are beginning to dump stock and i personally don't see players lasting too long.
  
  the xbox 360 add-on is being rumored to see yet ANOTHER PRICE CUT, this time dropping all the way down to $50.
  
  also here is an article about BestBuy's revamped site promoting Blu-ray. the heading reads as follows: Quote:Format War Over: Blu-ray Wins! We've got your Blu-ray needs covered.link

  21.2.2008 01:59 #94

• juankerr

  Thanks hade.
  
  In anticipation of the increased need for BD replication, CINRAM is adding 15 BD50 capable BluRay replication lines to its Olyphant PA facility. They currently have 2 BD50 lines running at this time and the additional 15 will increase their capacity to an estimated 2.5 million discs per week. It's likely that they'll be getting the Oerlikon lines from Singulus (Germany).
  
  (Insider info from Kosty at avsforums.)

  21.2.2008 07:16 #95

• n3v3rD1e

  I do have one very important question that I am wondering if ANYONE TRULY KNOWS A DEFINITIVE ANSWER; that is 'what is going to happen AND WHEN to the movies that were exclusively released on HD-DVD?' Sony will no doubt have to put those as priority and get them manufactured on Blu-ray I would think.

  21.2.2008 14:28 #96

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by n3v3rD1e: I do have one very important question that I am wondering if ANYONE TRULY KNOWS A DEFINITIVE ANSWER; that is 'what is going to happen AND WHEN to the movies that were exclusively released on HD-DVD?' Sony will no doubt have to put those as priority and get them manufactured on Blu-ray I would think.Sony has no control whatsoever on what and when the other formerly HD DVD studios release. For example the HD DVD exclusive title Transformers was released by Paramount/Dreamworks. It's up to Paramount (and not Sony) to decide if and when they'll release that title on BluRay. It's also up to Paramount to decide what to include in the BluRay release.

  21.2.2008 14:36 #97

• n3v3rD1e

  Quote:Originally posted by n3v3rD1e: I do have one very important question that I am wondering if ANYONE TRULY KNOWS A DEFINITIVE ANSWER; that is 'what is going to happen AND WHEN to the movies that were exclusively released on HD-DVD?' Sony will no doubt have to put those as priority and get them manufactured on Blu-ray I would think.Sony has no control whatsoever on what and when the other formerly HD DVD studios release. For example the HD DVD exclusive title Transformers was released by Paramount/Dreamworks. It's up to Paramount (and not Sony) to decide if and when they'll release that title on BluRay. It's also up to Paramount to decide what to include in the BluRay release.Yeah..........that makes sense now that you clarified it. Thanks! There were a bunch of HD-DVD exclusives I thought (could be wrong though) and it would be appropriate to put those on BD. That would also be very convincing to me to go out and shop for a BD player.

  21.2.2008 14:49 #98

• Gnawnivek

  Quote:Quote:Originally posted by n3v3rD1e: I do have one very important question that I am wondering if ANYONE TRULY KNOWS A DEFINITIVE ANSWER; that is 'what is going to happen AND WHEN to the movies that were exclusively released on HD-DVD?' Sony will no doubt have to put those as priority and get them manufactured on Blu-ray I would think.Sony has no control whatsoever on what and when the other formerly HD DVD studios release. For example the HD DVD exclusive title Transformers was released by Paramount/Dreamworks. It's up to Paramount (and not Sony) to decide if and when they'll release that title on BluRay. It's also up to Paramount to decide what to include in the BluRay release.Yeah..........that makes sense now that you clarified it. Thanks! There were a bunch of HD-DVD exclusives I thought (could be wrong though) and it would be appropriate to put those on BD. That would also be very convincing to me to go out and shop for a BD player.yeah, that's why people still hold on to the hd-dvd players, the transition period gonna last for a while... i brought the hd-dvd add-on just b/c of this reason, you don't know how long some of the hd-dvd exclusives gonna hit Blu-ray.

  22.2.2008 12:25 #99

• angfern

  I betted on Sony's Betamax, a far superior tape product at its introduction but lost to the folks that wanted a gazillion hours on one tape regardless of quality. Decided then not to bet on Sony again.
  
  Now I bet on Toshiba, purchasing two HD-DVD players that will become paper weights because I guessed wrong again.
  
  Hey, I do the same thing with stock picks...buy high....sell low.
  
  I'll add this to my "I have no idea what I am doing" list.
  
  

  23.2.2008 23:44 #100

• vinny13

  Originally posted by angfern: I betted on Sony's Betamax, a far superior tape product at its introduction but lost to the folks that wanted a gazillion hours on one tape regardless of quality. Decided then not to bet on Sony again.
  
  Now I bet on Toshiba, purchasing two HD-DVD players that will become paper weights because I guessed wrong again.
  
  Hey, I do the same thing with stock picks...buy high....sell low.
  
  I'll add this to my "I have no idea what I am doing" list.
  
  You must be great at poker :P

  24.2.2008 01:03 #101

• Gnawnivek

  The Betamax thing is interesting to know... i have to confess, i didn't know about the Betamx vs VHS format war at all till people mentioned when hd-dvd and BD are introduced. Honestly, it's interesting to know, but you can't really use that old format war to predict the outcome of the new format war. There's another variable in the equation, i.e. dvd... of course, before dvds are accepted by the mass, there are other formats, like divx... anyhow, what i'm saying is, there will be people who don't know what HD-DVDs are just like i didn't know what Betamaxes were... It's pretty sad isn't it? At least Betamax is well known :)

  24.2.2008 10:09 #102

• computarm

  I knew the war could have went either way between Blu-ray and HD-DVD, However I felt Sony was Probably going to win because of their huge presence in the movie industry. I got tired of hearing about the stupid war that should have never been on podcast. Of course I watch TV on an antenna because Satellite and Cable Companies insist on bundling a bunch of crap channels into their packages and you have to take more expensive packages even to get the few non-premium channels that are any good. Ala carte the channels and I would be there.

  24.2.2008 11:53 #103

• ronnybuck

  I read and listen about the HD and BluRay and what it boils down too Sony is paying to get their format in use. I guess they are still sore over the Betamax. They must remember the public speaks with their pocketbooks. If they cannot afford to buy it they will not. I grew up and got used to the snowy so called analog TV's and finally got cable where I live, which still has the snowy pictures but more channels of it. The reason they get by with it because it is a monopoly. I did buy a Offair Digital tuner to see what the hype there was. I had to repair my old antenna as the Tuner did not work very well with Rabbit ears or the fancy settop expensive futurastic ones they said I needed. With my old antenna with rotor I get all the local stations most of the time. What the TV Stations are worried about is about 40 million families who do not have access to cable or can afford satellite service with marginal ways to receive Digital reliably. Their lively hood is the local commercials of the nearest Foodmart, gas stations and many others that the stations make most of their operational costs from. I am sure these folks cannot afford Sony's expensive Blu-Ray products as was the Betamax. That is why the VHS won, but to bribe this time is criminal.

  24.2.2008 20:15 #104

• vinny13

  Well I'm pretty sure enough people could afford it as it has outsold the cheaper HD-DVD for the fast year...

  24.2.2008 20:19 #105

• ronnybuck

  Don't you understand that Sony has been paying under the table to make this happen. The people buying them are charging them. It's the folks who have to pay cash that will not buy them. I will wait for the price to drop considerably before I do. Only thing I owe on is my car and that is financed with 0% interest. BestBuy CEO consider us deadbeats becasue we pay our cards off every 30 days. If I cannot I don't buy it. That is why so many are in deep financial trouble and the housing markets are tanking. People simply do not see all the interest on interest charges they are paying. I learned my lesson a long time ago, leave the store cards alone. A Visa at a local credit union is the safest way to go. I had a Bestbuy Card and due to the fact you cannot pay in their stores it got lost in the mail. They hit me with a $30 late fee and after a dozen calls got it back but learned my lesson and canceled it. My credit union is down the road and the cashier is better looking.

  24.2.2008 20:32 #106

• vinny13

  Originally posted by ronnybuck: Don't you understand that Sony has been paying under the table to make this happen.Ya as if Toshiba did nothing. The way you put it is wrong. Obviously they both were making "under the table" deals, but to those that were being dealt with, they felt that Sony made the better offer.
  
  Like with the Warner... I'm pretty sure they didn't play dumb and just let Sony have them. Obviously there must of been some kind of bidding war and Sony went over their spending limit.
  
  *Or I should say Blu-Ray in general as it's not just Sony, the company everybody hates usually for stupid reasons :P

  24.2.2008 21:12 #107

• ronnybuck

  I don't think the reasons are stupid. Again it is a matter of economics. Sony produts are more expensive and not that much better for the price. If you don't buy an extended warranty on the new stuff repairing it especially locally is hard. The cheapest is to take it to the dump. I worked in the TV Repair industry for years and Sony was the hardest to get parts and they were very expensive. Sharp was just about as bad. Many stores quit selling them for that reason. For years most depended on RCA and Zenith for reliability and getting them fixed locally. Parts centers carried just about everything except Sony and Sharp parts, they were so proprietary. Can you imagine the shipping costs for repair this day and time? I drive around town and see more and more big screen sets along with the CRT types on curbs waiting for the trash trucks. My son lives in Japan and they are not selling Plasma screens because they do not last as long as LCD. But I thought the plasma had a better picture but recently at Sam's club the newer LCD's are looking good to me and cheaper. I may use my Tax Rebate and get one. I don't know if you know Clark Howard a talk radio personality but he says do not buy exteded warranties as the big screens last a lot longer now. There are only 2 repair shops in this area and one of them wants a minimum $300 to look at one. Repairing is extra. I just take care of my own and occassionly family but retired and have no place to put them.

  24.2.2008 21:40 #108

• wrowe

  The whole thing is just ridiculous in my opinion. As soon as the whole world buys BluRay they will have to come out with some other absolutely fantastic system, because the market for BluRay will be saturated. My guess is this will probably take about a year.
  It's like buying a computer...it's obsolite by the time you get it home.

  25.2.2008 01:28 #109

• ronnybuck

  Amen brother. The word is that there will be something bigger and better. How about a pull down screen that can be viewed from both sides or Halographic where you can stand in the middle of the action. When through viewing the screen can disappear into the ceiling and all you have is a little black box not some big hulking dark thing that collects dust all day. The future is just around the corner.

  25.2.2008 09:43 #110

• BluRay

  I expected the format war to end, but only after years of battle!
  
  I did not expect it to come this quickly, I woke up and bam! in front of me, "HD-DVD dropped by Toshiba".
  
  If you take a look at my nick, you will know who I was supporting...

  25.2.2008 13:03 #111

• vinny13

  Originally posted by BluRay: I expected the format war to end, but only after years of battle!
  
  I did not expect it to come this quickly, I woke up and bam! in front of me, "HD-DVD dropped by Toshiba".
  
  If you take a look at my nick, you will know who I was supporting...Lmao :P

  25.2.2008 16:17 #112

• goodswipe

  Wow, this article has produced over 5 pages of rants, just amazing....
  

  "look honey, it said goodswipe! oh wow, that's amazing."

  25.2.2008 16:22 #113

• kmiecjc

  I am glad the better one won.

  14.3.2008 09:23 #114

• TSRSteve

  Originally posted by goodswipe: Wow, this article has produced over 5 pages of rants, just amazing....I know, it took me an hour to read them all. I think Horrabin had the best post though, he had some good points in there. He deserves a cookie.
  
  
  

  19.3.2008 12:30 #115

• goodswipe

  LOL, and I thought I was the king of posting images, good one! Man, that cookie sure does look appetizing!
  

  "look honey, it said goodswipe! oh wow, that's amazing."

  19.3.2008 12:33 #116

• Amir89

  Good riddance!
  
  Finally died the death it sorely deserved.
  HD-DVD was a like a man that been shot in the leg, stabbed 10 times, beaten over the head with a baseball bat and doused in gasoline and was crawling along the floor..
  
  In other words, clinging onto life.
  
  Now the forums can be at peace again :)
  

  Current Specs:
  ASUS Leucite P5LP-LE Mobo, Intel D 945G @3.4Ghz, 2x2Mb L2 Cache, 1Gb DDR2 SD RAM @677Mhz, Seagate Barracuda 250Gb @7,200Rpm, GeForce7600GT 512MB GDDR2, ASUSTek Tiger Digital/Analog TV Tuner, Samsung SyncMaster941BW 19" LCD, LG H20L DVD±R/RW DL LightScribe, LG GSA-4167B DVD±R/RW DL, Logitech Z-5500 505Watt 5.1 Surround
  
  

  21.3.2008 02:24 #117

• borhan9

  The war is over and hd dvd is dead now but why are they still trying to beat a dead horse. Why do you still try to invest in a format that has its day in the sun. Focus on Blu-Ray and make the new machine Blu-Ray ready.

  9.4.2008 17:45 #118