AfterDawn: News

Sony set to introduce Profile 2.0 Blu-ray players

Sony has announced that its first Profile 2.0 Blu-ray players will be debuting this summer.

The BDP-S350 will be Sony's first new player since the demise of HD DVD last week and will feature an Ethernet port allowing it to connect to a home network. Curiously, the player will not be able to access online Blu-ray content until Sony releases a BD-Live upgrade for the player. The company says the player will retail for about $400 USD. The new BDP-S550 will cost about $100 more but will be BD-Live capable from the get go.



Both players will be the first of Sony's line to have picture-in-picture (PIP) content although some Panasonic players already have the feature meaning the new players are not the first of their kind.

More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up.



Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 26 Feb 2008 16:47

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• 72 comments

• DDR4life

  First post, yeah!
  
  Quote:More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up.
  lol.

  26.2.2008 17:02 #1

• goodswipe

  Wow, all the same features HD DVD offered but, at a much higher price, just mind boggling. ;)

  26.2.2008 17:07 #2

• plutonash

  I'm sorry to say this but this player is garbage I can already guarantee it won't support most advance audio. Argh what a piece of $h1t.

  26.2.2008 17:12 #3

• juankerr

  Originally posted by plutonash: I'm sorry to say this but this player is garbage I can already guarantee it won't support most advance audio. Argh what a piece of $h1t.Correction. They do support advanced audio - Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio.
  
  The S350 supports advanced audio bitstream transmission and the S550 supports both onboard decoding and bitstream transmission.
  
  http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/630898
  http://www.electronichouse.com/article/s...lu_ray_players/
  
  Quote:BDP-S350
  Firmware – Street Date Summer 2008
  Video Decoder – Sigma SMP8634 Rev C
  24fps - Yes
  Audio Decoding
  Dolby Digital - Onboard
  DTS - Onboard
  Dolby Digital Plus - Onboard/Bitstream
  DTS – HR - Onboard/Bitstream
  PCM - Onboard
  Dolby True HD – Bitstream
  DTS HD Master Audio - Bitstream
  Analog Out Channels – 5.1
  HDMI Channels – 7.1
  HDMI Version – 1.3
  Profile – 1.1/2.0 ready with added memory port
  Ethernet - Yes
  
  BDP-S550
  Firmware – Street Date Fall 2008
  Video Decoder – Sigma SMP8634 Rev C
  24fps - Yes
  Audio Decoding
  Dolby Digital - Onboard
  DTS - Onboard
  Dolby Digital Plus - Onboard/Bitstream
  DTS – HR - Onboard/Bitstream
  PCM - Onboard
  Dolby True HD – Onboard/Bitstream
  DTS HD Master Audio - Onboard/Bitstream
  Analog Out Channels – 7.1
  HDMI Channels – 7.1
  HDMI Version – 1.3
  Profile – 2.0
  Ethernet - Yes
  

  26.2.2008 17:19 #4

• 21Q

  Meh, I'm a slow mover to knew formats. I didn't a dvd player until 3 years ago. I still don't own any dvd's. But ... that doesn't mean I don't own any movies.

  26.2.2008 17:48 #5

• redux79

  Now that sony's done they're part to win the format war they finally have time to focus on their format and player specs.
  Quote:More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up.
  Double the price for features that hd-dvd had in 2006... Now that’s the sony I remember.

  26.2.2008 17:50 #6

• nonoitall

  Now that Blu-ray has won, it's time for them to beat the competition.

  26.2.2008 18:01 #7

• MrXenu

  Originally posted by nonoitall: Now that Blu-ray has won, it's time for them to beat the competition.I beleive the ps3 was the reason it was won, because taht was the cheapest BR player and had decentish spec's for its price.
  
  There is no competition price wise, because Sony are lapping up all the consumers with the PS3!
  
  Persoanlly I don't see why other companies in the BDA should allow this now they have won the format war with HD DVD
  
  If i was one of the BDA i'd be demanding hte ps3 prices were risen, so that everyone doesn't buy a ps3 as their BR palyer!

  26.2.2008 18:28 #8

• domie

  What's wrong with all you guys ? Late developers spelling and eloquent expression in english classes were cancelled at school this week ?

  26.2.2008 18:36 #9

• Ludikhris

  Those complaining how BR players are too expensive are very ignorant. What about the companies that are not Sony that make BR players? Truth be told, it's still in the early adoption phase. HD-DVD was gasping for air when they fire saled the players. I'd rather have BR make a profit and be around for awhile so I can enjoy it. Two conditions will make prices go down.
  
  1) Mass market adoption of the format
  2) BR dies
  
  I'd opt for #1 so we still have a HD media around.
  
  The prices would be about the same if HD-DVD was the only tech around and never had BR to compete with it.

  26.2.2008 19:25 #10

• gallagher

  Reminds me of the Beta. Beta was steroe from the get go and had all sorts of features for editing. VCR's were mostly mono and had jack for editing.
  
  Ironically Sony was the better one then and they suck now. I guess they learned the lesson. Build the suckier product and people will buy.

  26.2.2008 19:59 #11

• hendrix04

  yes, i am so glad sony won the format war so we can wait to buy a blu-ray player when they finally get the spec settled.

  26.2.2008 20:02 #12

• goodswipe

  Originally posted by Ludikhris: Those complaining how BR players are too expensive are very ignorant. What about the companies that are not Sony that make BR players? Truth be told, it's still in the early adoption phase. HD-DVD was gasping for air when they fire saled the players. I'd rather have BR make a profit and be around for awhile so I can enjoy it. Two conditions will make prices go down.
  
  1) Mass market adoption of the format
  2) BR dies
  
  I'd opt for #1 so we still have a HD media around.
  
  The prices would be about the same if HD-DVD was the only tech around and never had BR to compete with it.Ignorant? Hardly, Blu-ray has always been more expensive then HD DVD. Even before the fire sales started. Blu's entry level player has always been at least 100 dollars more then HD DVD's.

  26.2.2008 20:08 #13

• saltynuts

  Quote:Originally posted by Ludikhris: Those complaining how BR players are too expensive are very ignorant. What about the companies that are not Sony that make BR players? Truth be told, it's still in the early adoption phase. HD-DVD was gasping for air when they fire saled the players. I'd rather have BR make a profit and be around for awhile so I can enjoy it. Two conditions will make prices go down.
  
  1) Mass market adoption of the format
  2) BR dies
  
  I'd opt for #1 so we still have a HD media around.
  
  The prices would be about the same if HD-DVD was the only tech around and never had BR to compete with it.Ignorant? Hardly, Blu-ray has always been more expensive then HD DVD. Even before the fire sales started. Blu's entry level player has always been at least 100 dollars more then HD DVD's.
  
  
  
  i agree with you if people dont like the price they can bitch and moan if that makes them feel better about how they spend their money.
  
  ludikhris you are ignorant if you think for one second that all people should see blu-ray as a great deal because it is not.

  26.2.2008 20:20 #14

• DXR88

  Well Sony needs to stop being MoneySuckers An give us a BD-player Profile Upgrade and they can do it iv seen it done Before.
  
  
  Oh and on another note make sure Sony That this is the last And Fully not bug ridden update they make.
  
  i dont wanna here in the next month or so the profile 3.x is out and all my profile 3.x disc's wont work on profile 2.x player's
  
  cause following Sony recent upgrade your Firmware in are products every Week fettish. will see a BD profile 2.1 and a 2.2 mabey even a 2.3.
  
  Sony do thing's right the first time. like old time saik. Please dont be another Microsoft update your computer every Day cause we Fu** up somthing else Service.

  26.2.2008 22:50 #15

• elfman12

  The BR spec is such a screwed-up product. This will keep evolving for at least the next 18 months... at a time when a solid single spec would help win over trepidatious consumers.
  
  But this is what 'the consumer" wanted, so let's see how "the consumer" responds.

  26.2.2008 22:58 #16

• ripxrush

  they won but hopefully they don't kill them selves with all of this spec change BS they are doing!

  27.2.2008 01:31 #17

• Ludikhris

  I far from believe BluRay is a good deal for everyone. Those that complain are the ones that are not ready to adopt yet. They are the people that want the technology the price just hasn't met their equilibrium price to make it worth it. Many PS3 owners (like myself) just had BR packaged as an extra on something else. For that reason I am already in, though I buy few movies due to price. It should just be understood that we are in the adopting stage still. I think people forget that.
  
  I remember the first 40" plasma tv I saw was 720p and $10000. I thought they were insane for charging that much. Guess what? They aren't that price anymore. You can expect the same to happen with BR players. As they gain more market penetration and become older technology they will go down in price.

  27.2.2008 01:44 #18

• A_Klingon

  Originally posted by domie: What's wrong with all you guys ? Late developers spelling and eloquent expression in english classes were cancelled at school this week ?Oh! Oh!, Domie! Ish you makin' funs of me agins ??? [grrrr...]
  
  4 you're infermations, I schpeeks vurry WELL Engrish, and I is *rait* El-A-quints & stuff, & don't needs no Engrish glasses.. [er..] ...Classes
  
  You know, it's funny, really. Whatever happened to the basic concept of:
  
  a) Liking a movie.
  b) Purchasing a disc of that movie.
  c) Putting the disc in one's home player, and then .... [oh my god],
  d) Just watching the damn thing ???
  
  In other words, I don't give a fiddler's fudge about "internet interactivity" with Sony's (or anyone else's) discs. 'Interactivity' is the last thing I need or want when (trying) to enjoy a motion picture. I don't want to provide 'input'. I don't give a damn about all these 'advanced features designed to enhance the consumer's viewing experience'. .
  
  If I wanna go on the internet, I'll go on the internet. If I wanna watch a movie, I'll watch a movie. Since when did doing one, need (or even want) to depend on doing the other?
  
  I think Sony is too wrapped-up in it's own overbloated technology. We're talking about an optical movie-disc format here - folks seem to lose track of what that means.
  
  Most of us work very hard all day. When we come home, tired and cranky, we like to relax, put our feet up, and (maybe) let someone else do our 'thinking' for us. At least for the duration of a good film. We don't - necessarily - want to have to 'think' about _anything_. That's what we shell-out the hefty $$$ for to the Hollywood Movie Industry - to ENTERTAIN US for a short bit. (Do our entertainment-thinking for us).
  
  Isn't that what truly GREAT movies are all about? To have trusted and respected actors/actresses help us 'escape' for just a short time?
  
  We don't want to have to make sure our player's firmware upgrade is sufficiently-modern-enough to enjoy the latest disc we just bought, or make certain we've connected our players to the internet, or 'registered' the farking disc on their official website, or are using a 'legit' (authorized) retail disc, or used the right interconnect cable, or hard-wired our PC's into the set-top player, or .....
  
  So..... I guess it's *all* a BLU-Ray world now. Fine. I just hope they (Sony) don't expect me to hook up my (or any other manufacturer's) player to anything other than a decent HI-Def monitor & cool audio system.
  
  Every additional "feature" or unwanted/un-needed 'extra' built-in to your new player just costs you money and adds to the complexity of everything, & only serves to detract you from doing what you probably most wanted to do in the first place - simply_enjoy_a_good_movie. Has Sony (or even some of YOU out there), lost track of that?
  
  Sony needs to Royally Dump ALL their players that don't natively incorporate Profile 2.0 - and any other firmware upgrade necessary to enjoy ANY Blu-Ray movie for the forseeable future. In other words - especially now that they've bought their way (Warner-$400 Million, does the word "Payola' ring a bell?) - into the mainstream, they NEED to provide:
  
  a) STABLE, reliable Home Players that work for every Blu-Ray disc ever made
  b) Set their standards in concrete STONE
  c) Stop f----ing around with ongoing-&-ever-evolving upgrades and updates just because they can't get their technical s--t together
  
  And they need to be able to reliably discern the difference between a consumer's legitimate desire (and RIGHT!) to simply enjoy a movie, instead of doing a hundred other unrelated things that have nothing to do with watching that movie.
  
  Scho ..... don'ts you make no more funs of my well Engrish! (I wents 2 schkools, -I just nevir tooks no classes). :-)
  
  Love & Peace 2 All.

  27.2.2008 03:04 #19

• ZippyDSM

  Sony needs to plan ahead a bit and make the newer specs and software retroactive IE upgradable, theres no excuse not to, but then again money schemes and consumer unfriendliness run on the same boat.

  27.2.2008 05:59 #20

• Sazaziel

  Blu Ray may never have a final spec due to the fact of the BD+ security feature will constantly upgrade itself every time the keys are cracked. It will always become a work in progress.

  27.2.2008 08:04 #21

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Sazaziel: Blu Ray may never have a final spec due to the fact of the BD+ security feature will constantly upgrade itself every time the keys are cracked. It will always become a work in progress.depends if they put so much effort in BD+, the spec needs tweaking because they launched it un finalized....

  27.2.2008 08:08 #22

• juankerr

  Originally posted by Sazaziel: Blu Ray may never have a final spec due to the fact of the BD+ security feature will constantly upgrade itself every time the keys are cracked. It will always become a work in progress.BluRay player profiles have nothing to do with BD+.
  
  There seems to be some confusion here so here's a couple of good reads so people can educate themselves:
  
  BluRay Profiles Explained:
  http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868226
  http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/J..._Explained/1186

  27.2.2008 08:09 #23

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Originally posted by Sazaziel: Blu Ray may never have a final spec due to the fact of the BD+ security feature will constantly upgrade itself every time the keys are cracked. It will always become a work in progress.BluRay player profiles have nothing to do with BD+.
  
  There seems to be some confusion here so here's a couple of good reads so people can educate themselves:
  
  BluRay Profiles Explained:
  http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868226
  " target="_blank">http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/J...ed/1186
  
  
  Profile is part web based content(pointless IMO),Java is another thing they are tweaking.
  I hope they get it all tweaked and finished.

  27.2.2008 08:13 #24

• juankerr

  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Profile is part web based content(pointless IMO),Java is another thing they are tweaking.
  I hope they get it all tweaked and finished.The player profiles are already finalized. All the CE makers have to do is put them in the machines.
  
  The java tweaking you're referring to is related to the special features found in the discs.

  27.2.2008 08:32 #25

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by juankerr: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Profile is part web based content(pointless IMO),Java is another thing they are tweaking.
  I hope they get it all tweaked and finished.The player profiles are already finalized. All the CE makers have to do is put them in the machines.
  
  The java tweaking you're referring to is related to the special features found in the discs.which nuked a couple movies until they fixed it...
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  27.2.2008 08:36 #26

• juankerr

  Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
  which nuked a couple movies until they fixed it...Which movies?

  27.2.2008 08:48 #27

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
  which nuked a couple movies until they fixed it...Which movies?
  were there not some issues with java menu systems in a couple movies 6ish+ months back?
  
  still I think I can count he BR movie playing issues on 1 maybe 2 hands, thats not to bad for a totally new product.
  
  finalizing the spec and software will ease my worries over BR I still worry about BD+...but tis not in sonys hands anymore so it can;t be that bad till the crackers break the system and make most net enabled units say most movies are fake when they are not LOL

  27.2.2008 08:53 #28

• juankerr

  Oh yes I remember now. Descent and Dragon's Lair from last year.

  27.2.2008 09:03 #29

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by juankerr: Oh yes I remember now. Descent and Dragon's Lair from last year.ya not hearing many other play issues which is good, the next year should be good beyond that their might be a huge issue with the BD+ system other than that I can't see BR failing itself other than rising hardware/movie prices.
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  27.2.2008 09:07 #30

• juankerr

  The reason why you're seeing less and less problems is better quality control especially with respect to software compatibility.
  
  BluFocus and Eye Media's Blu-Qual:
  
  http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12640.cfm
  http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/23/my-...-with-blu-qual/

  27.2.2008 09:34 #31

• vinny13

  At least these new players aren't too much more expensive then what the ones out right now are :)
  
  Hopefully they'll probably drop $100 or 2 after a few months...

  27.2.2008 12:05 #32

• goodswipe

  A bit off topic here but, does the BD-J technology on Blu-ray work the same as iHD on HD DVD? Does it have the same look to it?
  

  "look honey, it said goodswipe! oh wow, that's amazing."

  27.2.2008 15:00 #33

• eatsushi

  Originally posted by goodswipe: A bit off topic here but, does the BD-J technology on Blu-ray work the same as iHD on HD DVD? Does it have the same look to it?Here's a quick comparison from highdefdigest forums:
  
  Quote:BD-J is full blown Java, HDi is a high level scripting language.
  
  HDi is quick to develop for, but very limited in it's abilities
  
  BD-J is less accessible, except for "proper" programmers, and takes more time to get right, but is infinitely more flexible and powerful. It's also proper OO (object oriented), and encourages reusable code.
  
  Now we are on the verge of a single format, studios can finally invest more resources in BD-J to get the full capabilities out of the SDK, meaning much better features.
  I'm not a programmer but I get the impression that BD-J has a lot more potential as to what can be done. The downside is that it's more difficult and expensive to develop and program. HDi was a quick and easy solution developed by MS.

  27.2.2008 15:47 #34

• goodswipe

  So what HDi does for the interactive menus on HD DVD, BD-J does the same for Blu-ray's menus?
  
  I've never actually sat down and messed with a Blu-ray player so, I wasn't sure that it had the interactive menu. I'm looking at picking up a BD player soon so, I guess I'll get to play around with it then.
  
  Thanks
  

  "look honey, it said goodswipe! oh wow, that's amazing."

  27.2.2008 16:09 #35

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Originally posted by goodswipe: A bit off topic here but, does the BD-J technology on Blu-ray work the same as iHD on HD DVD? Does it have the same look to it?Here's a quick comparison from highdefdigest forums:
  
  Quote:BD-J is full blown Java, HDi is a high level scripting language.
  
  HDi is quick to develop for, but very limited in it's abilities
  
  BD-J is less accessible, except for "proper" programmers, and takes more time to get right, but is infinitely more flexible and powerful. It's also proper OO (object oriented), and encourages reusable code.
  
  Now we are on the verge of a single format, studios can finally invest more resources in BD-J to get the full capabilities out of the SDK, meaning much better features.
  I'm not a programmer but I get the impression that BD-J has a lot more potential as to what can be done. The downside is that it's more difficult and expensive to develop and program. HDi was a quick and easy solution developed by MS.ya BR is not cheap or simple to produce for, maybe in 3 to 4 it will be but for now its tricky.

  27.2.2008 16:36 #36

• DXR88

  Java Code is simple once you get past the learning curve it holds.
  
  High level Coding witch HDi did does not make it limited.
  
  Java uses resuable code how does this make it hard to programme for
  
  Clearly Im missing Somthings there.

  27.2.2008 16:40 #37

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by DXR88: Java Code is simple once you get past the learning curve it holds.thus why its a cost/time issue upgrading to it,once moved to it its going to take alil while for the added cost to be absorbed and lowered into the total production cost.
  
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  27.2.2008 16:44 #38

• oappi

  who needs standalone player anyway? buy sata bd drive for your computer that should do it =).

  27.2.2008 17:16 #39

• sgriesch

  "You know, it's funny, really. Whatever happened to the basic concept of:
  
  a) Liking a movie.
  b) Purchasing a disc of that movie.
  c) Putting the disc in one's home player, and then .... [oh my god],
  d) Just watching the damn thing ???
  
  In other words, I don't give a fiddler's fudge about "internet interactivity" with Sony's (or anyone else's) discs. 'Interactivity' is the last thing I need or want when (trying) to enjoy a motion picture. I don't want to provide 'input'. I don't give a damn about all these 'advanced features designed to enhance the consumer's viewing experience'. .
  
  If I wanna go on the internet, I'll go on the internet. If I wanna watch a movie, I'll watch a movie. Since when did doing one, need (or even want) to depend on doing the other?"
  
  
  
  You said it man. They need to stick with the basics. First, fix that SLOW loading problem. Then, drop the price of the thing. It just plays movies, nothing more. They should have learned from HD DVD that having a lower price will indeed let them sell more players. Now that the movie studios are not taking sides, this seems like the next logical step. If they want special features, make a high-end version of it. Most people just want the higher quality format, not "new innovative BS".

  27.2.2008 19:43 #40

• A_Klingon

  Quote: You said it man. They need to stick with the basics.Thnx for replying, sgriesch. I was hoping someone would. (Oh, man!, where did you find the handle, "sgriesch" ??? <gg>
  
  I too wish Sony would just get their 'basics' together rather than try to impress us with unproven or even unwanted extras. They're trying to provide Too Much Too Fast. If they really wanted to 'enhance my viewing experience' they might want to release a half-decent movie once in a while (oh my god! what a radical concept, eh?) And they wouldn't even need BD+ or Java or Root Kits or anything else to accomplish it.
  
  I don't know what the hell 'JavaScript' is, nor do I care. (I guess it's now an integral part of Blu-Ray). I once went to the official Java website, and after jumping through a dozen hoops and barriers, they (the Java-Folks) *finally* let me download a standalone version of Java to install offline at my convenience. (Normally, you're supposed to install it online like 90% of Microsoft's crap). Now that I "have" Java, I haven't got a clue what it does or what it's supposed to accomplish. I only know it's one Hell of a bloated piece of software and quite a CPU-Hog.
  
  As so many others have pointed out, Blu-Ray may have Won-The-Current-Format-War, but will it really supplant the tried-&-true (regular) DVD system? (Probably, at least for a niche market). Regular DVD is pretty-well entrenched worldwide. Just because Sony payola'd their way out of the current 'war', doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna be the mainstream HD format. I fear that Blu-Ray could wind up as a very small market concern, much like the late-&-lamented Laser-Disc format. (Or their own SACD format (Super Audio CD), or Hi-Res Audio-DVD with Meridian Lossless Packing. How many people buy that stuff these days, and HOW many titles are available TO buy? (Not many, I can tell you).
  
  12" Laser Discs. GREAT STUFF, but only limited in overall market appeal. (I had a magnificent, horrifically-expensive Pioneer LaserDisc Player, but when Laser Disc rentals became extinct in my area, I sold off the player and was damned lucky to have found a buyer.)
  
  However, if some enterprising, intelligent, software 'reverse-engineers' (may god bless them; I kiss their feet) ever DO manage to crack BD+, (my fingers are crossed for Clone-DVD, DVD-Fab, etc.), I may have to rethink my position.
  
  Thanks for replying, sgriesch. -- Klingy --

  28.2.2008 16:43 #41

• A_Klingon

  [Addendum]
  
  Oh, I just wanted to mention......
  
  I was chatting today with a buddy of mine who works for 'Roger's Video' (Video rental outlet here in Canada similar to 'BlockBusters').
  
  He said that the local WalMart is flogging-off their remaining stock of HD-DVD players for a mere $50 bucks each.
  
  HA! :-)

  28.2.2008 16:50 #42

• sgriesch

  @ Klingon - Java is just a code language that is widely used. My wife is a software developer. SHe's always talking about it.
  
  My suggestion for Sony is to make an entry-level Blu-Ray player that is less than $150. That would get the attention of some of the new consumers to the market. With more people getting Hi-Def TV's, they will like the quality, and possibly buy a reasonable priced player. The other issue would be to fix the price of the discs. They really should be around $15, not $30 or $35. That's a big turn-off for me now. I own both HD DVD and Blu-Ray, and have very few movies, because I refuse to shell out the money for them.

  28.2.2008 20:20 #43

• A_Klingon

  Quote:@ Klingon - Java is just a code language that is widely used. Yes, it's everywhere (like in this browser), but the standalone Java install file I downloaded (I would have 2 dig around to find the original) was Huge in size and required a reboot. (Java itself is just basically text, isn't it?) but it has powerful command capability.
  
  Anyway....... now that it's here with us, I hope Blu-Ray catches on in a big way, and Sony manages to straighten out its hefty DRM issues. I have yet to take the plunge. :)

  29.2.2008 05:35 #44

• Ryu77

  A_Klingon, are you referring to the Java Runtime Environment install package? It is a 13.9mb archive which installs to the Windows Program Files directory as 70.1mb... I am thinking that this might not be it as I don't consider 70.1mb as huge... But just thought I'd ask.
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  29.2.2008 06:28 #45

• A_Klingon

  Yep, I think that's it, Ryu77.
  
  "Java Runtime Environment Version 5.0 Update 1.exe"
  15, 814, 200 bytes.
  
  OK, perhaps not as big as I had remembered, but as you say, it swells upon installation, and I have no idea how it affects the Windows Registry. Also, this may be quite an older version. (Nothing in the software world stays static for very long).
  
  I've no idea what it does or what it's supposed to do, but it (seems) transparent enough most of the time.
  
  I've noticed on some websites, that - when a Java screen kicks-in, you are pretty much at the mercy of it. (You can only click - on certain functions for example - it can be user-restrictive; it sort-of "takes over", if that is the right phrase. It can block your browser window right off the screen if it wants to.
  
  In the Blu-Ray world, I think Java is just another means for User Control. I could be wrong. It may indeed provide additional features or options for the viewer (I myself would rather just have a good movie to watch without all the hoopla), but I think it's just mostly another way for Sony to exert control over how people use their system.
  
  (But hell, what do I know?) ;-)

  29.2.2008 11:03 #46

• sgriesch

  "It may indeed provide additional features or options for the viewer (I myself would rather just have a good movie to watch without all the hoopla), but I think it's just mostly another way for Sony to exert control over how people use their system."
  
  
  We use AutoCad 2008 at my office, and I am always getting kicked out of the program. I then receive a "Java Runtime Error", (which from what I have read means that there is some bad code writing or a conflict with another program). It sucks when you lose 20 minutes worth of work.
  Anyways, I'm with you on the movie hoopla. Make a good product at a good price, and it will be well received. Those who steal it probably would have in the first place. If Sony doesn't change what they are doing, then I take no pitty on them. It would be their own fault. They would be the cause of the piracy. Oh, and it's only a matter of time before the current DRM is by-passed. That's how it always works. Sony better hurry to change or the consumer will tell them to shove off.

  29.2.2008 14:51 #47

• r0b0t3ch

  "More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up."
  
  
  FIGURES! Cheaper was better apparently.

  29.2.2008 17:07 #48

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by r0b0t3ch: "More interestingly, HD DVD players have had PIP and Internet capabilities since 2006 meaning Blu-ray is still catching up."How does that relate to Java? Java uses a "Virtual Machine" to accommodate various interactive features on Blu-ray players. How are they still catching up? I believe this is a more advanced interactive feature set than HD-DVD offered.
  
  Definition: Java generally refers to a combination of three things: the Java programming language (a high-level, object-oriented programming language); the Java Virtual Machine (a high-performance virtual machine that executes bytecodes on a specific computing platform, typically abbreviated JVM); and the Java platform, a JVM running compiled Java bytecodes, usually calling on a set of standard libraries such as those provided by Java Standard Edition (SE) or Enterprise Edition (EE). Though coupled by design, the language does not imply the JVM, and vice versa.
  
  However, I do agree with some of what A_Klingon said. I have never been one to use the advanced features of a DVD and I doubt I will start now. If I put a disc in to watch a movie, I'm pretty sure I have made the decision to simply watch a movie! I just want to be blown away with crisp, life-like images and roaring, cinema like sound! :-D
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  29.2.2008 18:07 #49

• DXR88

  Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
  audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space
  
  and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.
  
  when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you puke

  29.2.2008 22:09 #50

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by DXR88: Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
  audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space
  
  and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.
  
  when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you pukeI'm not a novice. I know how much space the streams take up. However, I am not sure how much you think is correct, is actually correct. The main movie often takes up more than 10gb of space. Include 5 or so languages in Dolby@640kbps, add a main track in Dolby TrueHD and another 5.1 PCM track, then add a video stream with an ABR of say 18mbps... According to my calculations, that takes up quite a bit more than 10gb.
  
  Now about filling 10gb with DRM, I'd love to see that! What sort of code are they running? Is my Blu-ray player going to transform into Optimus Prime?
  
  Oh and about the rootkits... OMG! Drop it already. How long ago was that? Sony screwed up big time! I am quite sure they know it. However, it is in the past, let's leave it there. Do you like it when someone brings up a mistake you did years ago?
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  1.3.2008 00:12 #51

• DXR88

  Originally posted by Ryu77: Originally posted by DXR88: Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
  audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space
  
  and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.
  
  when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you puke
  
  I'm not a novice. I know how much space the streams take up. However, I am not sure how much you think is correct, is actually correct. The main movie often takes up more than 10gb of space. Include 5 or so languages in Dolby@640kbps, add a main track in Dolby TrueHD and another 5.1 PCM track, then add a video stream with an ABR of say 18mbps... According to my calculations, that takes up quite a bit more than 10gb.
  
  Now about filling 10gb with DRM, I'd love to see that! What sort of code are they running? Is my Blu-ray player going to transform into Optimus Prime?
  
  Oh and about the rootkits... OMG! Drop it already. How long ago was that? Sony screwed up big time! I am quite sure they know it. However, it is in the past, let's leave it there. Do you like it when someone brings up a mistake you did years ago?perhaps your right but what does it matter,eh.
  
  what made you think i was refering to sony when i said rootkits.
  sony is not the only company who had left the bad rootkit expression on people's faces.

  1.3.2008 08:24 #52

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by DXR88: perhaps your right but what does it matter,eh.
  
  what made you think i was refering to sony when i said rootkits.
  sony is not the only company who had left the bad rootkit expression on people's faces.Maybe because this is a Blu-ray thread. Maybe because you referred to "they" in regards to rootkits straight after you mentioned DRM. By the way, which other companies are you referring to?
  
  Oh, and it is not perhaps I am right... I am right! I made a post that was from a knowledgeable position. It matters because you made a post that was based on false ideas. I tried to be fair about my initial reply. Why can't people be humble enough to accept that someone else knows something they don't? How else can you learn?
  
  I guess I am just a little frustrated with all these Sony haters (most of which are Kids) on here that are either out of their league and/or try to make points that just don't have any merit.
  
  As I said before, I am open minded enough to accept it when I am wrong. Can someone please provide some sort of proof that Sony plan to use a DRM that would somehow restrict a genuine Blu-ray disc from regular use?
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  1.3.2008 09:16 #53

• RNR1995

  F $ony keep all your crap
  thank you

  1.3.2008 12:11 #54

• domie

  Originally posted by RNR1995: F $ony keep all your crap
  thank youOh dear ! Mr.Dictionary deserted us again ?

  1.3.2008 16:33 #55

• RNR1995

  Quote:Originally posted by RNR1995: F $ony keep all your crap
  thank youOh dear ! Mr.Dictionary deserted us again ?What's that supposed to mean?

  1.3.2008 16:38 #56

• DXR88

  interesting did i upset you,Ryu77.
  
  well instead of bashing me why dont you further my education, by posting some links to as where you got so much great information.
  
  unless of coarse you cant because it was in your mind.

  2.3.2008 07:48 #57

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Ryu77: Originally posted by DXR88: perhaps your right but what does it matter,eh.
  
  what made you think i was refering to sony when i said rootkits.
  sony is not the only company who had left the bad rootkit expression on people's faces.Maybe because this is a Blu-ray thread. Maybe because you referred to "they" in regards to rootkits straight after you mentioned DRM. By the way, which other companies are you referring to?
  
  Oh, and it is not perhaps I am right... I am right! I made a post that was from a knowledgeable position. It matters because you made a post that was based on false ideas. I tried to be fair about my initial reply. Why can't people be humble enough to accept that someone else knows something they don't? How else can you learn?
  
  I guess I am just a little frustrated with all these Sony haters (most of which are Kids) on here that are either out of their league and/or try to make points that just don't have any merit.
  
  As I said before, I am open minded enough to accept it when I am wrong. Can someone please provide some sort of proof that Sony plan to use a DRM that would somehow restrict a genuine Blu-ray disc from regular use?Dude...man love you and all that...but....BD+ is a live key system that they can turn a flag on and ban players and discs from working.
  
  the ban can be done in 2 ways new movies will be flagged not to work some players and net enabled players can be blacklisted and flagged from playing movies.
  
  its just what BD+ dose and thankgod they sold it off to macrovision!
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  2.3.2008 07:55 #58

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by DXR88: interesting did i upset you,Ryu77.
  
  well instead of bashing me why dont you further my education, by posting some links to as where you got so much great information.
  
  unless of coarse you cant because it was in your mind.Relax little Man. I don't get upset so easy but I will stand my ground when it's called for. Your initial reply was a little condescending towards a post (the Java post I made) that I felt was on topic and not even the slightest bit confronting. I posted facts that don't need links for verification. Many people here at Afterdawn could verify that the information I posted was accurate while yours was not.
  
  Your post...
  
  Originally posted by DXR888: Ryu77, what did you think all that extra space was for movies(laughs)
  audio(laughs) that could easly have been done within 10 gigs of space
  
  and you not going to put a pure stream on any 25-50 gig discs pure stream are just to large.
  
  when this new disc technology came out i knew the were ether going to be filled with unwanted garbage or the first 10 gigs filled with drm. they already have discs filled with enough rootkits to make you pukeMy post...
  
  Originally posted by Ryu77: I'm not a novice. I know how much space the streams take up. However, I am not sure how much you think is correct, is actually correct. The main movie often takes up more than 10gb of space. Include 5 or so languages in Dolby@640kbps, add a main track in Dolby TrueHD and another 5.1 PCM track, then add a video stream with an ABR of say 18mbps... According to my calculations, that takes up quite a bit more than 10gb.
  
  Now about filling 10gb with DRM, I'd love to see that! What sort of code are they running? Is my Blu-ray player going to transform into Optimus Prime?
  
  Oh and about the rootkits... OMG! Drop it already. How long ago was that? Sony screwed up big time! I am quite sure they know it. However, it is in the past, let's leave it there. Do you like it when someone brings up a mistake you did years ago?What part of this needs links for verification? I will happily post them if you feel that you really need them.
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  2.3.2008 09:29 #59

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Dude...man love you and all that...but....BD+ is a live key system that they can turn a flag on and ban players and discs from working.
  
  the ban can be done in 2 ways new movies will be flagged not to work some players and net enabled players can be blacklisted and flagged from playing movies.
  
  its just what BD+ dose and thankgod they sold it off to macrovision!Thanks Zippy... We need more love here at Afterdawn. Let's share the love Brothers and Sisters! :-P
  
  I understand the concept of BD+ and what it could potentially do. However, the key word is "potentially". When you see a Police Officer walking down the street, do you think "Hey, he's got a gun... He's going to shoot everybody".
  
  Ok, my point is this. If Blu-ray did actually start locking down players etc. then it would only be from pirated discs. As much as people want to scream about this. It's really irrelevant. You are playing a pirated disc... Shame on you! :-P Now I am not saying that I am a Saint and obtain everything through legitimate channels, but I am humble enough to respect the rights that the companies reserve to protect their material from being distributed illegally. I believe that if you are playing genuine Blu-ray discs then you will never see any problems. The proof I am asking for is that they will lock down players to a single genuine Blu-ray disc. How on Earth is that going to work in the Rental sector? That will crush a big chunk of their business. As I said many times, if I am wrong about this... It's quite simple really, I will stop supporting Blu-ray products. Until that day actually comes. I will enjoy my HD movies in all their visual and audio glory while the skeptics stick with SD.
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  2.3.2008 09:50 #60

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Ryu77: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Dude...man love you and all that...but....BD+ is a live key system that they can turn a flag on and ban players and discs from working.
  
  the ban can be done in 2 ways new movies will be flagged not to work some players and net enabled players can be blacklisted and flagged from playing movies.
  
  its just what BD+ dose and thankgod they sold it off to macrovision!Thanks Zippy... We need more love here at Afterdawn. Let's share the love Brothers and Sisters! :-P
  
  I understand the concept of BD+ and what it could potentially do. However, the key word is "potentially". When you see a Police Officer walking down the street, do you think "Hey, he's got a gun... He's going to shoot everybody".
  
  Ok, my point is this. If Blu-ray did actually start locking down players etc. then it would only be from pirated discs. As much as people want to scream about this. It's really irrelevant. You are playing a pirated disc... Shame on you! :-P Now I am not saying that I am a Saint and obtain everything through legitimate channels, but I am humble enough to respect the rights that the companies reserve to protect their material from being distributed illegally. I believe that if you are playing genuine Blu-ray discs then you will never see any problems. The proof I am asking for is that they will lock down players to a single genuine Blu-ray disc. How on Earth is that going to work in the Rental sector? That will crush a big chunk of their business. As I said many times, if I am wrong about this... It's quite simple really, I will stop supporting Blu-ray products. Until that day actually comes. I will enjoy my HD movies in all their visual and audio glory while the skeptics stick with SD.Either way what it will do is brick alot of hardware of software not to mention legit used copies at least it would if handled heavy handedly and with it begin out of sonys hands I do not think it will be a issue.
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  2.3.2008 09:57 #61

• DXR88

  Yes Ryu77 please enlighten me with your knowlogable links.
  
  the more info i have the better....

  2.3.2008 12:07 #62

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by DXR88: Yes Ryu77 please enlighten me with your knowlogable links.
  
  the more info i have the better....Are you kidding me?
  
  Which piece of information did you need links for?
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  2.3.2008 16:16 #63

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Ryu77: Originally posted by DXR88: Yes Ryu77 please enlighten me with your knowlogable links.
  
  the more info i have the better....Are you kidding me?
  
  Which piece of information did you need links for?
  I believe him wants BD+ info, specific to how ti will blacklist things would be nice.
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  2.3.2008 16:25 #64

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: I believe him wants BD+ info, specific to how ti will blacklist things would be nice.Isn't that what I'm asking for?
  
  If you read my post I stated I was right about 1) A main (HD) movie taking up more than 10gb of space. 2) DRM not taking up 10gb on a disc. 3) Sony rootkit epidemic was years ago (about 3 I believe). As opposed to DXR888's previous post stating the opposite with the above information.
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  2.3.2008 16:37 #65

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Ryu77: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: I believe him wants BD+ info, specific to how ti will blacklist things would be nice.Isn't that what I'm asking for?
  
  If you read my post I stated I was right about 1) A main (HD) movie taking up more than 10gb of space. 2) DRM not taking up 10gb on a disc. 3) Sony rootkit epidemic was years ago (about 3 I believe). As opposed to DXR888's previous post stating the opposite with the above information.ya but you both are arguing for the same thing but from both ends of the argument 0-o
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  2.3.2008 16:40 #66

• Ryu77

  Now, I am confused... Zippy, I don't know if you understand what was actually discussed between DXR888 and I. You need to see from the Java post that I made... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/633032/3836195
  
  In regards to bitrates and main movie sizes. See here... http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338
  
  You will see that the main movies are on average about 25gb each (fourth column from left). Some even hit the 40gb mark.
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  2.3.2008 16:57 #67

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Ryu77: Now, I am confused... Zippy, I don't know if you understand what was actually discussed between DXR888 and I. You need to see from the Java post that I made... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/633032/3836195
  
  In regards to bitrates and main movie sizes. See here... http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338
  
  You will see that the main movies are on average about 25gb each (fourth column from left). Some even hit the 40gb mark.ah that could be it LOL
  
  

  For all the console/game fanboys out their.
  http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles...Console-Rundown
  Oh god I can't stop laughing!!!
  ---
  And for the format nazi's I bring you HHD DVVD BVD's!!
  

  2.3.2008 17:01 #68

• DXR88

  thankyou Ryu77 that would be the info i wanted.
  
  however those bitrates are not from pure steams they still use compression algorythme's in other words they still wouldent fit on a BD Disc if they were pure streams.
  
  Mpeg-2 is a dvd format whats up with that..?

  2.3.2008 18:43 #69

• Ryu77

  Originally posted by DXR88: thankyou Ryu77 that would be the info i wanted.
  
  however those bitrates are not from pure steams they still use compression algorythme's in other words they still wouldent fit on a BD Disc if they were pure streams. Ok, now I can see that you were serious about needing some education. If we can get past the initial hurdle of abruptness, it's time to go to School... :-P
  
  I never at any point said they use a "pure" video stream. That was never part of our discussion. Yes, you mentioned it but that was not what I commented on. If they did indeed use uncompressed RGB for 1080p content, then you would need a box set of Blu-rays for a single movie... lol. With that being said, the audio offered is "pure". Each disc often includes PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) 5.1. This is uncompressed 6 channel audio, which requires a bitrate of 4608kbs (for 48khz/16 bit). The other two audio formats of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD use a lossless compression algorithm, which means that the audio is identical to the studio original at a more efficient bitrate (smaller size).
  
  Originally posted by DXR888: Mpeg-2 is a dvd format whats up with that..?The new formats (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) support three video codecs as mandatory. These are mpeg2, VC-1 & AVC (h264). The mpeg2 used in Blu-ray is exactly the same one that we have seen for so many years on regular DVD discs. However, just like any other codec there are profile levels. DVD uses what is referred to as "Main Level" mpeg2. HD-DVD and Blu-ray use "High Level" mpeg2. These levels basically allow for greater resolutions & larger bitrate ranges etc.
  

  
  
  "A winner sees an answer for every problem... A loser sees a problem with every answer"

  2.3.2008 20:32 #70

• DXR88

  thanks for clarifing Ryu77

  2.3.2008 21:48 #71

• borhan9

  Well now that HD-DVD is dead and buried we will see what blu-ray and the manufacturers will bring out with their blu-ray players all the little wonderful extra functions that will keep consumers happy.

  19.4.2008 20:18 #72