PlayStation Home censors choice "offensive" terms

According to the San Francisco Chronicle, the Sony PlayStation Home virtual world uses a severe filter that censors choice "offensive" words.

The problem however is that some of the words that are filtered don't make much sense. A few of the censored words include "Jew", "Christ", "gay", "lesbian", "bisexual" and most other terms relating to homosexuality.

At its most ridiculous, the filter censors the word "hello" because it begins with the banned word "hell."

The filters were discovered by Michael Marsh, a beta user who tried to create a Gay/Straight Alliance club within the service. Marsh contacted Sony on December 11th, before Home went public, but nothing came of it.

For its part, Microsoft employs a filter as well on Xbox Live profiles which bans words such as gay, lesbian and bisexual. However, unlike Sony, words can begin with banned words.

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 29 Dec 2008 18:06

Advertisement - News comments available below the ad

61 comments

jony218

Whats the problem? It's a kid's game. Just don't use the banned words and all will be fine.

29.12.2008 18:12 #1

Globe08

Censorship blows but its a neccesary evil so what can you do.Not a fan of the overprotectiveness of religon though,seems too much.

29.12.2008 18:17 #2

Globe08

Originally posted by jony218: Whats the problem? It's a kid's game. Just don't use the banned words and all will be fine.
Kids game?how so? Not arguing just trying to see where your coming from.

29.12.2008 18:20 #3

kikzm33z

Oh God..
It's like RuneScape all over again.

29.12.2008 18:40 #4

Tecbot

its not a game its a social network to meet people to game with or just hang out and talk...people can be 5 years old on it or watching it theres not much need for people using inappropriate words/content on it.

even if they made certain rooms available to certain people i doubt that would work out its just going to be a better place if offensive content is minimalized as much as possible.

not saying people dont deserve there own room but i just dont think the ps3 home network is a appropriate area to do these sort of things.

29.12.2008 18:46 #5

Leningrad

bull everyone knows how to circumvent that stuff.

g.ay

bise.xual

Their attempt to censor that stuff is futile.

29.12.2008 18:56 #6

beanos66

Originally posted by jony218: Whats the problem? It's a kid's game. Just don't use the banned words and all will be fine.Not a kids game, over 18's only allowed

and the only reason this filter exists is because of some loudmouth christian fundamentalist groups (who are in the minority) with deep pockets buying up all the senators and congressmen

29.12.2008 19:06 #7

spiesfan

censorship is for losers

29.12.2008 19:09 #8

JaguarGod

What about people from Lesbos? They cannot refer to themselves as Lesbians? And I guess if your name is Christian, Christine, etc,,, you are screwed?

29.12.2008 19:21 #9

muccione

Quote:Originally posted by jony218: Whats the problem? It's a kid's game. Just don't use the banned words and all will be fine.Not a kids game, over 18's only allowed

ANYONE with a PSN account or sub account can "play" AND everyone has there own "place" and can make any type of private club they want....Yes I was a beta tester

29.12.2008 19:36 #10

rainofire

I was a beta tester since may 2007, the first wave. And the filters weren't as... strong. With the new filter, even spacing the letters or putting periods in-between won't work. And I angry that the other regions have more good stuff, I missed the days in the old beta build were I was allowed to travel to other regions without the use of another account.

29.12.2008 19:50 #11

DjDanio

Why don't they put in some option where you can choose what is filtered, may be have it age restricted as well. Surely that would solve all kinds of problems. Who cares if it's easily bypassed. Kids fault, not sonys, if they put their age as 99.

If you don't want to hear certain words then add them to a filter yourself. If you want to use a word, remove it from the default filter list.

I am a Genius, Good Night!!!!

29.12.2008 20:31 #12

b18bek9

Isnt this a parents job to make sure there's some kind of parental setting so u can filter it for kids not for everyone. I find it to be annoying that everything must be censored cuz of children when everything isnt for children yet games rated M17 are bought for kids by there parents just to keep the kids out of their hair or because they dont mind it or dont care its funny.

29.12.2008 21:21 #13

defgod

Originally posted by b18bek9: Isnt this a parents job to make sure there's some kind of parental setting so u can filter it for kids not for everyone. I find it to be annoying that everything must be censored cuz of children when everything isnt for children yet games rated M17 are bought for kids by there parents just to keep the kids out of their hair or because they dont mind it or dont care its funny.
This right here is one of the bigger problems with society today. Always wanting someone else to do the parenting for us. Oh censor this censor that. Parents are being held less and less responsible for their kids. It's becoming companies responsibility for fear of being sued by these parents and groups.

30.12.2008 00:02 #14

H0bbes

Quote:Originally posted by jony218: Whats the problem? It's a kid's game. Just don't use the banned words and all will be fine.Not a kids game, over 18's only allowed

and the only reason this filter exists is because of some loudmouth christian fundamentalist groups (who are in the minority) with deep pockets buying up all the senators and congressmenOff-topic:
"Loudmouth"... lol. At least the majority of the Christians I know very well don't stoop to name calling, nor are they loudmouths. Not trying to flame or troll, just making a point. :-) No biggie.

On topic:
I agree to an extent with b18bek9 and DjDanio about parents and filtering. That is their job. If filtering is required and parents want to grant a child access, that parent should be able to customize the filters.
Some, however, may think that if filtering is required, then that child will benefit better by doing something else altogether...?

30.12.2008 00:04 #15

MrXenu

I'd like to add that the word basement is censored. I have to say I did that at this one, becuase basement has semen in it, which get it a ban!

Wasn't this meant to be a launch feature for the PS3? 2 years late, and still not even finished or even having correct word filters. Seriously how hard is it to make a correct world filter, Sony have had MMO's sure they didn't have such crazy word filters!

30.12.2008 04:10 #16

canuckerz

Home is still a beta, so there's alot of things that will be refined and I'm sure the clumsy censor system is one of them.

30.12.2008 04:17 #17

trainmstr

home sux ... period. what a bunch of rubbish. it loads slow ... it responds slow... they would have been better off making it totally open for creation much like 2nd life ..and putting the money they invested in home to deeper discounts and better games on the ps3.

honestly... i really have no idea why anyone would even review it ... its terrible ... and people should be honest ... it sux.

i dont give a damn who was in what beta ... who cares ... dont waste your hard drive space on home

30.12.2008 06:06 #18

beanos66

Quote:Quote:Originally posted by jony218: Whats the problem? It's a kid's game. Just don't use the banned words and all will be fine.Not a kids game, over 18's only allowed

and the only reason this filter exists is because of some loudmouth christian fundamentalist groups (who are in the minority) with deep pockets buying up all the senators and congressmenOff-topic:
"Loudmouth"... lol. At least the majority of the Christians I know very well don't stoop to name calling, nor are they loudmouths. Not trying to flame or troll, just making a point. :-) No biggie.
Not Christians... Fundamentalists! "(who are in the minority)"
Not Off-Topic, We would not be allowed to have this conversation on PSHome

30.12.2008 06:38 #19

H0bbes

Quote:Not Off-Topic, We would not be allowed to have this conversation on PSHome
LOL!

30.12.2008 10:05 #20

trainmstr

Quote:Originally posted by jony218:

and the only reason this filter exists is because of some loudmouth christian fundamentalist groups (who are in the minority) with deep pockets buying up all the senators and congressmenthats like calling an african american a N%^^&r dood. This is 2009 get over the hate. Its those same "christian fundamentalists" that gave you the very right to even breathe air in America... hell all of Europe would have either been communist (try to have this conversation in China or the old USSR) or nazi if it weren't for thos "christian fundamentalists."

I'm so tired of haters... especially shitting on the hands that feed them.

30.12.2008 12:50 #21

varnull

Sounds like a "christian fundamentalist" talking there.. a yank bible bashing turd on a stick. Nothing like the words supposedly spoken the fictional bloke who got nailed to some sticks a few thousand years ago that we are supposed to feel guilty about. Try reading that bloody book sometime and see what that "jesus" bloke was about.. Nothing to do with "church" or "religion"

I have been on the receiving end of "christian" love.. no thanks.. you can keep your popish prop8 supporting lies and hate. Freedom for all.. not just the members of your intolerant religion. When the church can use hate, bigotry and downright lies to remove constitutional rights from minorities by mob hysteria there is something very very wrong with a country.

dirty filthy religion *washes hands*

Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work.
I would rather you hate me for who I am than love me for what I am not.
Welcome to the other side of the looking glass Alice

30.12.2008 13:03 #22

Leningrad

Originally posted by varnull: Sounds like a "christian fundamentalist" talking there.. a yank bible bashing turd on a stick. Nothing like the words supposedly spoken the fictional bloke who got nailed to some sticks a few thousand years ago that we are supposed to feel guilty about. Try reading that bloody book sometime and see what that "jesus" bloke was about.. Nothing to do with "church" or "religion"

I have been on the receiving end of "christian" love.. no thanks.. you can keep your popish prop8 supporting lies and hate. Freedom for all.. not just the members of your intolerant religion. When the church can use hate, bigotry and downright lies to remove constitutional rights from minorities by mob hysteria there is something very very wrong with a country.wow your obviosley an atheist.

30.12.2008 13:06 #23

varnull

religion is lies built on ignorance of fact, and used to oppress and subjugate people.. It's something that should be left in the dark ages it came from. It has no part to play in the modern world XD

30.12.2008 13:09 #24

huntr

Censorship has invaded all sorts of internet applications. The newsreader "NewsRover" has implemented banning certain words in their search engine in an attempt to fight kiddie porn. I asked for the list of "forbidden words, and was denied. On their website, they talk about how they don't censor anything, but it's a lie. Example: search for "Brigham Young" and you will receive 0 results. But search for "Brigham" by itself and you will receive a list of files. Through experimentation, I found a lot of "forbidden" words. The most outrageous aspect of this is that they charge money for this service. And to the people who believe that it's the religious nuts that are behind all this censorship, use a word that the liberals don't like (the "N" word comes to mind) and they will hound you to the gates of hell in an attempt to ruin your life, deprive you of your livelihood, and in general, prove that you are worthless. They will also brag about being the greatest supporters of free speech. CENSORSHIP IS EVIL. Once you let the camel's nose under the tent, you are doomed.

30.12.2008 15:12 #25

Globe08

Quote:Originally posted by varnull: Sounds like a "christian fundamentalist" talking there.. a yank bible bashing turd on a stick. Nothing like the words supposedly spoken the fictional bloke who got nailed to some sticks a few thousand years ago that we are supposed to feel guilty about. Try reading that bloody book sometime and see what that "jesus" bloke was about.. Nothing to do with "church" or "religion"

I have been on the receiving end of "christian" love.. no thanks.. you can keep your popish prop8 supporting lies and hate. Freedom for all.. not just the members of your intolerant religion. When the church can use hate, bigotry and downright lies to remove constitutional rights from minorities by mob hysteria there is something very very wrong with a country.wow your obviosley an atheist.
Point being? In reference to the athiest comment

30.12.2008 16:15 #26

Leningrad

Originally posted by varnull: religion is lies built on ignorance of fact, and used to oppress and subjugate people.. It's something that should be left in the dark ages it came from. It has no part to play in the modern world XDwell religion gives morals.

30.12.2008 16:32 #27

varnull

and morals are set by people with an agenda.. been down that road with the book bashers too.. morals are not ethical XD

Anyway.. I bet I could be really offensive on this playstation home thing regardless of whatever useless word filter it is.. Only takes a bit of an IQ to stun the average console user. Probably as much as it does to knobble the average bible basher :lol:

30.12.2008 16:45 #28

Leningrad

Originally posted by varnull: and morals are set by people with an agenda.. been down that road with the book bashers too.. morals are not ethical XD

Anyway.. I bet I could be really offensive on this playstation home thing regardless of whatever useless word filter it is.. Only takes a bit of an IQ to stun the average console user. Probably as much as it does to knobble the average bible basher :lol:Not Ethical? Then why do some culture prohibit consumption of alcohol and some other permit it. Elaborate?

30.12.2008 16:48 #29

Globe08

This religon convo never really ends well mods might want to step in. I love conversations on race,religon,politics but its not often you can have 2 people have an educated conversation on religon. Mainly due to it being so heavily filtered and showered in fantasy stories.The stories that tell religon arent based off fact and for whats its worth its changed way too much. As long as man is in control of what represents religon which is something meant to carry enormous power it will never be what the religous wish it to be...sacred. You've got pedophile priest,suicide bombers,people cutting other mens heads off on the internet in the name of their god. Only thing known for a fact about religon is more people have died over it than any other cause known to man

30.12.2008 17:50 #30

Globe08

Quote:Originally posted by varnull: and morals are set by people with an agenda.. been down that road with the book bashers too.. morals are not ethical XD

Anyway.. I bet I could be really offensive on this playstation home thing regardless of whatever useless word filter it is.. Only takes a bit of an IQ to stun the average console user. Probably as much as it does to knobble the average bible basher :lol:Not Ethical? Then why do some culture prohibit consumption of alcohol and some other permit it. Elaborate?Also in some places you can smoke weed and others you can not. The list of what is acceptable changes far too often. People as a whole are ignorant.One thing religon does most is promote close-mindedness. not to say their arent good people who are religous cause their are plenty but their are too many who ruin it for the few.

30.12.2008 17:55 #31

Leningrad

Originally posted by Globe08: This religon convo never really ends well mods might want to step in. I love conversations on race,religon,politics but its not often you can have 2 people have an educated conversation on religon. Mainly due to it being so heavily filtered and showered in fantasy stories.The stories that tell religon arent based off fact and for whats its worth its changed way too much. As long as man is in control of what represents religon which is something meant to carry enormous power it will never be what the religous wish it to be...sacred. You've got pedophile priest,suicide bombers,people cutting other mens heads off on the internet in the name of their god. Only thing known for a fact about religon is more people have died over it than any other cause known to manMore people died from it? Are you kidding me? Dude ever heard of the bubonic plague and WWII? they spilled more blood than you could imagine.

30.12.2008 18:02 #32

Globe08

people in jerusalem have been fighting over the land for 3000 years so no im not kidding you.get your facts in order. Plus all the wars which i could list but i'll let you do the leg work.Hilter kiiling the jewish correct me if im wrong happened during world war 2.[url=http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/war.html][/url]

30.12.2008 18:22 #33

windsong

Originally posted by Globe08: people in jerusalem have been fighting over the land for 3000 years so no im not kidding you.[/url]And they will undoubtedly be fighting another 3000 years as well. I am suspecting that it is impossible for anyone to get along with each other over there.

30.12.2008 19:26 #34

Globe08

agreed. They are fighting over something that makes the human race look so idiotic. I mean religon is supposed to produce morality,love,respect not the right to feel superior as it does so often.

30.12.2008 19:36 #35

defgod

Originally posted by Globe08: agreed. They are fighting over something that makes the human race look so idiotic. I mean religon is supposed to produce morality,love,respect not the right to feel superior as it does so often.
The whole "my god is better than yours" or "my god is the one and only god". Is where that argument comes from.

30.12.2008 22:15 #36

ddp

stay on topic or thread is closed & religion is not the topic!!

30.12.2008 22:44 #37

xboxdvl2

why didnt they just slap an R18+ rating on it and scrap the censorship.

P3 750mhz
lite on 16X dvd burner
256DDR

sig compiled by Phantom69

30.12.2008 22:54 #38

ZippyDSM

I wonder when they will put in a word white list....

31.12.2008 00:43 #39

H0bbes

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: I wonder when they will put in a word white list....Good point.

This all reminds me of a TV Guardian box at a friend's house. It blocks obvious foul, and sex-ralated words, but it had a setting in which it would display a "replacement" word. Often it could be just as offensive, or downright funny! For example:

Word----Replacement
P***y Wimp
F*** Wow [LOL!]
Sex Hugs
B**ch[ing] Nag[ging]
Gay Happy
Sh** Crud
Crap Crud [yes, it actually replaced crap...lol]
Damn Darn [same root word in dictionary]

We were watching Shrek 2 [I think], and every time the Closed Captions were indicating that the Puss In Boots was speaking, like "Puss-In-Boots: 'The rich King? S�.'", the box would mute the sound and display "Wimp-In-Boots!" LOL!
Even funnier is a TV evangelist with the religious setting on. Mutes any reference to Jesus or God.

I thought that was hilarious.

31.12.2008 01:55 #40

canuckerz

Originally posted by xboxdvl2: why didnt they just slap an R18+ rating on it and scrap the censorship.I wish they would but unfortunately they're going down the "casual" and family gaming road. What I find ironic is that most of the people who are using those words and shooting off are the kids who are under 18.

31.12.2008 02:24 #41

Leningrad

Originally posted by ddp: stay on topic or thread is closed & religion is not the topic!!Isn't this a forum and a place where you are free to speak (just asking)

31.12.2008 11:56 #42

varnull

not really.. religion and politics are two banned subjects.. read my lips.. prop8

what would you expect from a site walking roughshod over the dcma regulations yet hosted in Texas(probably by mormons).. hahaha

anyway.. as way of new year giggles.. (lets see if we can make ddp smile.. not much chance I know.. but you can never tell eh?)

What do you call a man by the side of the road up to his elbow in a horses ass?
(and before you say it.. no.. it's not Irelands unblocker-walla)

31.12.2008 13:22 #43

Globe08

Quote:Originally posted by ddp: stay on topic or thread is closed & religion is not the topic!!Isn't this a forum and a place where you are free to speak (just asking)In a perfect world the answer to that question would be yes. But we live in a world where-by all communication and views of what is acceptable is handled by those in power. In this case the mods of a video-game/electronics forum in other areas its the government. Im o conspiracy theorist btw just saying communication is vital to growth as a species but most anything important has red tape in front of it

31.12.2008 14:07 #44

Globe08

Censorship just makes it all that much more to those who are being sheilded from whatever it is being censored. tell a kid not to touch something you better believe you just doubled the odds hes going to touch it.

31.12.2008 14:20 #45

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by Globe08: Censorship just makes it all that much more to those who are being sheilded from whatever it is being censored. tell a kid not to touch something you better believe you just doubled the odds hes going to touch it.I find that censorship dose 2 things makes alot of people dumber becuse they assume they and others need protection and the other some will strive to find the censored things.

31.12.2008 14:29 #46

DRokKer

yes this is a forum, and yes religion can kiss my shiney metal ass!

31.12.2008 14:32 #47

Paladore

Well, in not for censorship but come on, it is needed. There are alot of children who play games and when im playing xbox live almost every time i play there is some jerk on there droping f bombs or other insults to someone else. I don't think i've ever hard the word fag or gay so much in my life than when im playing halo3. To Varnull, don't go blaming the "christian bible thumpers" for this. This is just Sony trying to cover their own asses, and don't be so hard on people with faith, this is a gaming topic, no reason to impose your beliefs on other people about your faith or lack of it in some church. Let people do what they want. Most Christians don't bible thump and force their views or beliefs. I'm catholic but know what your talking about, no one likes having a person pointing a finger at your holding a bible and condeming you for your choices.

31.12.2008 14:36 #48

Leningrad

Originally posted by DRokKer: yes this is a forum, and yes religion can kiss my shiney metal ass!dude dont be that provocating, there are religious people like me that are disturbed by these kind of comments(im catholic).

31.12.2008 14:48 #49

Leningrad

Originally posted by Paladore: Well, in not for censorship but come on, it is needed. There are alot of children who play games and when im playing xbox live almost every time i play there is some jerk on there droping f bombs or other insults to someone else. I don't think i've ever hard the word fag or gay so much in my life than when im playing halo3. To Varnull, don't go blaming the "christian bible thumpers" for this. This is just Sony trying to cover their own asses, and don't be so hard on people with faith, this is a gaming topic, no reason to impose your beliefs on other people about your faith or lack of it in some church. Let people do what they want. Most Christians don't bible thump and force their views or beliefs. I'm catholic but know what your talking about, no one likes having a person pointing a finger at your holding a bible and condeming you for your choices.im with you dude, and well said.

31.12.2008 14:51 #50

Globe08

unfortunatly for the religous folk there are nuts like Jack thompson out there in the public eye running their mouth saying stupid stuff like "god is waiting to punish take-two"

[url=http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208475/jack-thompson-god-is-punishing-gta-distributor-take-two/][/url]

31.12.2008 18:59 #51

DRokKer

Quote:Originally posted by DRokKer: yes this is a forum, and yes religion can kiss my shiney metal ass!dude dont be that provocating, there are religious people like me that are disturbed by these kind of comments(im catholic).
dude, if my comments disturb you dont read them, i will say what i think in a public forum. i care not if you are catholic or a jedi or an atheist. dont try to censor people.

1.1.2009 14:23 #52

creaky

Originally posted by DRokKer: i will say what i think in a public forum. i care not if you are catholic or a jedi or an atheist. dont try to censor people. Saying what you think doesn't mean anything goes. If you need censoring then you will be censored.

1.1.2009 14:46 #53

ZippyDSM

Quote:Quote:Originally posted by DRokKer: yes this is a forum, and yes religion can kiss my shiney metal ass!dude dont be that provocating, there are religious people like me that are disturbed by these kind of comments(im catholic).
dude, if my comments disturb you dont read them, i will say what i think in a public forum. i care not if you are catholic or a jedi or an atheist. dont try to censor people.Ture, if a person dose not have a think skin to brush off most of the absurdity of life they might as well be a child because they act as one.

1.1.2009 14:58 #54

ZippyDSM

Quote:Originally posted by DRokKer: i will say what i think in a public forum. i care not if you are catholic or a jedi or an atheist. dont try to censor people. Saying what you think doesn't mean anything goes. If you need censoring then you will be censored.Without a doubt but what about the whining that comes from neither bad nor highly annoying statements?

I guess it all falls under the guise of trying not to go off topic.

And yes I know I am in the OT gutter....why do I always wind up in teh gutter =0-o=

1.1.2009 15:01 #55

canuckerz

1.1.2009 19:35 #56

ZippyDSM

Quote:Originally posted by Paladore: Well, in not for censorship but come on, it is needed. There are alot of children who play games and when im playing xbox live almost every time i play there is some jerk on there droping f bombs or other insults to someone else. I don't think i've ever hard the word fag or gay so much in my life than when im playing halo3.I hate to burst your bubble but most the games that those children are playing online are usually rated 17+.Kids have been talking sht amongst each other since forever.
Now its just more annoying than ever....

1.1.2009 19:52 #57

spiesfan

yeah this gives them a larger megaphone

1.1.2009 21:12 #58

Globe08

Originally posted by spiesfan: yeah this gives them a larger megaphoneIm guessing from a kids perspective they hear the stuff online think its cool and use it. Also keep in mind its a way for kids to be defiant and have no consequences,im not condoning it just saying.That way they can tell somebody twice their age to "suck it" or what have you and the only thing the recipient can do is ignore it or get pissed and go back and forth with the kid which i think is the desired response.

5.1.2009 09:33 #59

qazwiz

Originally posted by Globe08: ...... or get pissed and go back and forth with the kid which i think is the desired response.exactly
which is why ignore and report for banning is the only acceptable response

-------------------------

as to the "censoring of religion", it should be as offensive to a Christian (someone who looks to Christ to save them)to see a Catholic (someone who looks to Mary to save them) or a Muslim (someone who looks to Alla to save them) being censored as it is to be censored themselves (AND VICE-VERSA)

There has always been "fanatics" in what ever group is formed, be it religious, political, or even sports (Have you been to a hockey or soccer game lately?) the most extreme of which results in deaths of themselves and/or others (even sports riots have resulted in deaths)

censoring shouldn't be done to "what" is said, but rather HOW it is said. The bible tells us to build up, not to tear down so censor anything said to tear down to encourage the building up of others.

so you should be trying to say "Go TEAM" not trying to goad the other team.... you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, so too, you will attract more followers by gently pointing out flaws of current beliefs than by blowing yourself up because you want 77 virgins

just make sure that, whatever group you align yourself with, they don't censor what you are allowed consider.... because that is the definition of brainwashing, preventing contrary ideas to insure a result

----------------------
good day, and don't forget to read your Bible

9.1.2009 18:45 #60

qazwiz

forgot to mention

any system that censors by blacklist can be defeated by just going ALPHA-BRAVO... the old radio words used to ensure a message was recieved exactly as planned not some homophone equivalent

since many words have similar sounding words the static on radio made it hard to be sure what was intended to be said.... the radio alphabet, ...Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Foxtrot, X-ray, Zulu etc.... was used to spell the intended word, insuring an exact transmission

now days I often use DOT COMercial to tell others about a web page on a site that zaps off site addresses so "afterdawn.com" becomes "afterdawn DOT COMercial" and the same can be done for the vulgarity

only way to stop it is to limit the phrases to be transmitted, like toontown does, but even there you could spell what you want to say using initials of the phrases, assuming the other person understands you are using initials to spell

9.1.2009 19:08 #61

AfterDawn: News