AfterDawn: News

Valve speaks out about piracy

At an interview at the Game Business Law summit this past week, Valve director of business development and legal affairs Jason Holtman spoke out about the company's thoughts on piracy, surprisingly calling pirates "underserved customers."

"There's a big business feeling that there's piracy, pirates are underserved customers."



"When you think about it that way, you think, 'Oh my gosh, I can do some interesting things and make some interesting money off of it.'"

"We take all of our games day-and-date to Russia," Holtman added. "The reason people pirated things in Russia is because Russians are reading magazines and watching television. They say 'Man, I want to play that game so bad,' but the publishers respond 'you can play that game in six months...maybe.' "

Holtman also noted, correctly, that publishers normally only care about the west leaving eastern nations with no real other alternative but piracy. That being said, Valve products are launched in Russia, in Russian, on the same day they hit North American shelves. After doing so, the company "found that our piracy rates dropped off significantly."

Steam currently has 15 million "connected gamers" speaking over 20 languages.

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 19 Jan 2009 16:44

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• 35 comments

• Stu_dent

  It appears some common sense has hit some people in the game industry!

  19.1.2009 17:54 #1

• mediabob

  Quote: It appears some common sense has hit some people in the game industry! how true! the gaming industry is actually trying to be proactive and that is at least a step in the right direction. next issue drm?

  19.1.2009 18:25 #2

• badkrma

  and let's not forget about the cost of the game. I'm not interested in paying over $50 for a 10hour game. Keep the cost down so I don't feel so ripped off if the game is not to my entire liking. Then I can at least reason out the lost of my money.

  19.1.2009 18:53 #3

• ALIS123

  Maybe they will finally start to realice real working ways of reducing piracy. Two simple ways, dump the ridiculous drm crap that causes much more problems that it solves, that would save them money at the same time so they could sell the games a little bit cheaper. And release the games everywhere at the same time, if for an example americans get some game months or weeks before europeans then the europeans who really want the game will pirate it.

  19.1.2009 19:13 #4

• djgizmo

  Originally posted by badkrma: and let's not forget about the cost of the game. I'm not interested in paying over $50 for a 10hour game. Keep the cost down so I don't feel so ripped off if the game is not to my entire liking. Then I can at least reason out the lost of my money.$50 is the going rate. If you decide to steeling that game because you don't think it's worth that, it's still called steeling.
  
  I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel them.

  19.1.2009 19:47 #5

• bryston

  Originally posted by djgizmo: I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel them.An intriging thought, Just how would one download a pair of Air Nike's ?
  

  Life is Grand !
  
  

  19.1.2009 20:03 #6

• mikey53

  ______________________________________________________________________
  $50 is the going rate. If you decide to steeling that game because you don't think it's worth that, it's still called steeling.
  
  I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel the_______________________________________________________________
  
  $50.00 is way to much for a game many would not pirate if the game cost what it was worth which is 19.99
  
  And ps if ppl do not like the price of anything their is an alternitive. if i dont want to spend 150.00 on nike air then i will go to the flea market and buy the bootleg ones for 40.00 companies will never learn

  19.1.2009 21:04 #7

• mikey53

  Quote:Originally posted by badkrma: and let's not forget about the cost of the game. I'm not interested in paying over $50 for a 10hour game. Keep the cost down so I don't feel so ripped off if the game is not to my entire liking. Then I can at least reason out the lost of my money.$50 is the going rate. If you decide to steeling that game because you don't think it's worth that, it's still called steeling.
  
  I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel them.$50.00 is way to much for a game many would not pirate if the game cost what it was worth which is 19.99
  
  And ps if ppl do not like the price of anything their is an alternitive. if i dont want to spend 150.00 on nike air then i will go to the flea market and buy the bootleg ones for 40.00 companies will never learn

  19.1.2009 21:25 #8

• spamual

  so what about the idiots who pirate games in the "west"?

  19.1.2009 21:40 #9

• sgriesch

  Originally posted by spamual: so what about the idiots who pirate games in the "west"?They don't want to pay $50 either.

  19.1.2009 23:21 #10

• vballstud

  This is why ninjas > pirates.
  The only one that goes after ninjas is Chuck Norris.

  19.1.2009 23:27 #11

• Neodemon

  Like Russia (which so sad) Australians have to wait six months to a year, sometimes longer, just to get the games that people in the states do. And then we have to pay twice, or more, as much as that (and thats after currency exchange) its just ridiculous, they charge more just because they can, and then wonder why people turn to piracy.

  20.1.2009 00:27 #12

• Shegax

  Quote:$50 is the going rate. If you decide to steeling that game because you don't think it's worth that, it's still called steeling.
  
  I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel them.
  Your analogy is flawed. We can duplicate digital information, we cannot yet duplicate physical matter. Knock offs are the only closest form of this...but it still isn't an equal comparison. Physically stealing something can mean loss of profit for the seller (as there is no goods to sell anymore). The only equal comparison we have is if a Star-Trek like replicator existed. In that case a person could scan the shoe, go home and replicate one just like it (and the seller would still have the original shoes to sell). Any other comparison falls short. Also boycotting a company by not buying their products doesn't do very much if the person not buying usually never buys.
  
  The only form of effective protest in a capitalistic system is by..... guess what? YUP Forced loss of capital. And Capital = Money.
  Keep in mind: During the American Revolution, the Colonies Pirated intellectual property en masse from Europe (Pirated books, stolen locamotive plans, steam engines plans, railroad designs, writing technology, weapons, etc, etc.) By not buying the rights to any of Europe's Ideas...they were effectively able to excecute a monetary form of Protest.
  
  
  So anyone who says Pirating is stealing, it only right in a semi quazi type of way. If the Pirater has a cause, or has an objective, or is protesting in any way...then their explanation is validated through the examples of recent history. To protest by abiding within the rules of Capitalism... or the powers that be (RIAA, MPAA) then your protest will never be felt, or heard, or get any attention in a meaningfull way.

  20.1.2009 00:41 #13

• spamual

  id say the law says it. its funy to see pirates justifying thier actions. snotty 14 years olds who are cooped in their room, who cant affored money for games....
  
  
  oops was that a generalisation?!

  20.1.2009 01:36 #14

• Shegax

  Quote:id say the law says it. its funy to see pirates justifying thier actions. snotty 14 years olds who are cooped in their room, who cant affored money for games....
  
  
  oops was that a generalisation?!
  I and masses of others see nothing funny about it. What I just proposed is a logical, justifiable, rationalization....even in professional circles this is expected, & even demanded to make a valid argument. Your reply consisted of 2 sentences. Your first, attempted to prove your point by "DEFAULT". Quote:I'd say the law says it. Yes we know the law says this. Laws (in our view) twisted by lobby interests, corporate bullying, and paid off officials. Yet you go on as though the "law" is an infallable authority in and of itself. Keep in mind the import and stamp tax on the colonies was "LAW". Jews not allowed to operate buisneses during Nazi rule was "LAW". Blacks in usa were property by "LAW". So your "default law" argument held no weight in the past, and still does not today. (in and of itself).
  
  Quote:its funy to see pirates justifying thier actions.
  By your next statement, you not only attempt to speak with indifference and disregard, but dismiss any pirate who adopts ideals seperate from your "Default law ideology".
  
  To finish your statment you end with:[quote]snotty 14 years olds who are cooped in their room, who cant affored money for games....
  oops was that a generalisation?! Your last utterance here is a cheap,lazy,uninformed,indolent,and insolent way to deal with a well thought out opinion. You Shame your audiance with diminuation, and lower your antagonists to a level below you in a fashion that serves to help you feel superior.
  
  
  Please construct well thought out points with solid concepts. Otherwise your words are just ramblings of a self rightous, social evangelist.

  20.1.2009 04:07 #15

• masa92

  You people are talking about 50 bucks. I'd love to pay that price for a game. Here in Finland, the prices of the games can be as high as 70€ or 91$. That's way too much for a game that I'd spent like 10 hours on.
  
  But I don't think, that any change will come, if pirates continue to brake the law. Yes, I know that it does not work, but still, its a criminal offence to download and upload movies, games ect.
  
  What should happen, is that both pirates and MPAA, RIAA, BSA, and all other trade groupes should get togethe, and think about other possibilities. But for sure, they should stop spending millions and millions of dollars to the "pirate-hunt".

  20.1.2009 04:16 #16

• AuWolf

  Originally posted by Neodemon: Like Russia (which so sad) Australians have to wait six months to a year, sometimes longer, just to get the games that people in the states do. And then we have to pay twice, or more, as much as that (and thats after currency exchange) its just ridiculous, they charge more just because they can, and then wonder why people turn to piracy.Yeah for example:
  
  PS3 Games
  
  Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots can be between $110 or $120 brand new. Or $100 for new ps3 games
  
  Or new Xbox 360 games are about $100 each. Not sure on Wii games though. Perhaps a little bit cheaper.
  
  
  Or another example is when the PS3 first came out it was $1000. Now it's down to $699 I think.
  

  Respect is everything

  20.1.2009 05:10 #17

• nintenut

  As far as game piracy in the US goes... You have little reason not to buy your games. $50 might be a bit much, but it's not like you can't wait for the price to drop... In 6 months from their release, most games will go from $50 to $30, just wait it out if you can't afford it initially.
  And, in the case of Steam, most games don't even cost that much. Steam has no DRM, either. No reason not to buy from them if you can.
  
  Personally, I support piracy in the sense that the people finding exploits in consoles and protection in PC games allow me to always have a spare copy of the games I buy, and to let me see if I like a game before wasting money on a game I don't like...
  
  I don't like that most people who download games have no intention of buying them. "Protest" or not... You'd think, with all the money you're saving by downloading games for free, you'd eventually save enough to buy a copy of a couple games, at least.

  20.1.2009 10:39 #18

• pirkster

  Originally posted by nintenut: As far as game piracy in the US goes... You have little reason not to buy your games. $50 might be a bit much, but it's not like you can't wait for the price to drop... In 6 months from their release, most games will go from $50 to $30, just wait it out if you can't afford it initially.
  And, in the case of Steam, most games don't even cost that much. Steam has no DRM, either. No reason not to buy from them if you can.
  
  Personally, I support piracy in the sense that the people finding exploits in consoles and protection in PC games allow me to always have a spare copy of the games I buy, and to let me see if I like a game before wasting money on a game I don't like...
  
  I don't like that most people who download games have no intention of buying them. "Protest" or not... You'd think, with all the money you're saving by downloading games for free, you'd eventually save enough to buy a copy of a couple games, at least.Agree... piracy as a "protest" is downright laughable and intellectually dishonest.
  
  Piracy is intended to gain possession without paying (stealing) plain and simple. Let's just be honest about it. And if you're going to be a pirate to backup using exploits, let's be honest about that too. I have zero problem with folks choosing to be a pirate (what you do in your own home is your business) but just that those who choose to should be honest about what they're doing, rather than paint themselves as some sort of "hero" (LOL).
  
  Re: prices, the market sets the price. A $50 price is set where it is because that's what people are willing to pay for it. Some folks are in denial about that, but it's the simple truth.
  
  There are obviously a lot of folks here who have no clue about capitalism, market economics, and any other topic raised again and again on the board. Just childish anti-capitalist, anti-profit banter that ultimately dissipate into silent cries in the vacuum of a message board. In the real world, however, there's a much different picture than what's many times painted by some here.
  
  There are plenty of ways to access games if you're dirt poor and can't afford them. Prices drop after a few months on the market. There are many compaines who specialize in pre-owned games, and others that rent games. Prices are exactly where they should be, unless your government has been involved and falsely inflated those prices. If there's anyone to "blame" in those cases - blame your government for tainting the market, not the makers of those games.

  20.1.2009 11:23 #19

• mikey53

  Quote:Originally posted by nintenut: As far as game piracy in the US goes... You have little reason not to buy your games. $50 might be a bit much, but it's not like you can't wait for the price to drop... In 6 months from their release, most games will go from $50 to $30, just wait it out if you can't afford it initially.
  And, in the case of Steam, most games don't even cost that much. Steam has no DRM, either. No reason not to buy from them if you can.
  
  Personally, I support piracy in the sense that the people finding exploits in consoles and protection in PC games allow me to always have a spare copy of the games I buy, and to let me see if I like a game before wasting money on a game I don't like...
  
  I don't like that most people who download games have no intention of buying them. "Protest" or not... You'd think, with all the money you're saving by downloading games for free, you'd eventually save enough to buy a copy of a couple games, at least.Agree... piracy as a "protest" is downright laughable and intellectually dishonest.
  
  Piracy is intended to gain possession without paying (stealing) plain and simple. Let's just be honest about it. And if you're going to be a pirate to backup using exploits, let's be honest about that too. I have zero problem with folks choosing to be a pirate (what you do in your own home is your business) but just that those who choose to should be honest about what they're doing, rather than paint themselves as some sort of "hero" (LOL).
  
  Re: prices, the market sets the price. A $50 price is set where it is because that's what people are willing to pay for it. Some folks are in denial about that, but it's the simple truth.
  
  There are obviously a lot of folks here who have no clue about capitalism, market economics, and any other topic raised again and again on the board. Just childish anti-capitalist, anti-profit banter that ultimately dissipate into silent cries in the vacuum of a message board. In the real world, however, there's a much different picture than what's many times painted by some here.
  
  There are plenty of ways to access games if you're dirt poor and can't afford them. Prices drop after a few months on the market. There are many compaines who specialize in pre-owned games, and others that rent games. Prices are exactly where they should be, unless your government has been involved and falsely inflated those prices. If there's anyone to "blame" in those cases - blame your government for tainting the market, not the makers of those games.Maybe I am crazy but if ppl pirate a game or a cd they where not going to buy it anyway so the riaa mpaa need to just drop it... why dont they go after blockbuster or rental stores that rent games. Now that i can rent all the games i want, keep them as long as i want for $15 - $20 per month why would i ever buy a game ever... so i can keep it in a box for years... the answer is i will only buy a movie, game or cd if its worth it to me. I purchaced all the halo games even when i had a modded xbox 1. i love making money and it does not come easy so why do game companies think they can have it easy... ie making stupid garbage games that they even are not proud of... do they think they force ppl to buy somthing. most ppl i know dont even know how to copy a dvd and are not interested in doing so. the mpaa and riaa need to drop it because if it's good enough to download then it's not good enough to buy. ps most movies and games are not even worth a down load what makes them think it's worth 50.00 and things should get cheaper cds still cost $15 lol games still cost $50 lol. cd's sould cost $5 games $20 movies $7.... lol lol will they never learn bluray is $35 i will never buy

  20.1.2009 19:20 #20

• nintenut

  They think that they can get away with selling media at the prices they do because they can, they have for years...
  
  No, wait, you're right, they've never made a profit on selling movies in hi-definition for anything more than the price of a pack of baseball cards and bubblegum, when will they learn? 9_9
  
  That's not how it works, you are in a very small minority.

  20.1.2009 19:58 #21

• nintenut

  Edit: Accidental double-post, sorry.

  20.1.2009 20:01 #22

• DXR88

  sure man we people of America have it made, if i get lucky i might get to keep My House(with utility's) and My Car, and some 15 dollars left over for food.
  
  Get real man, honest hardworking people don't make shit. now lying, stealing, killing people,drug trafficking thats where the monies is.
  
  wait 6 months for game to come down in price, your funny try 2-3 years.

  21.1.2009 02:01 #23

• eiamhere

  Quote:Originally posted by badkrma: and let's not forget about the cost of the game. I'm not interested in paying over $50 for a 10hour game. Keep the cost down so I don't feel so ripped off if the game is not to my entire liking. Then I can at least reason out the lost of my money.$50 is the going rate. If you decide to steeling that game because you don't think it's worth that, it's still called steeling.
  
  I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel them.
  The difference is that you can try on the Nikes in store. Look at the design, be sure it's what you want. Many games now-a-days are sub-par, but still retail at extortionate prices. You can't even rely on review sites any more, as even the supposed un-biased sites are now "sponsored" by this companies.
  
  Also, like dvd release, regions has a negative affect on the market, but big corporations like to milk every last ounce out of people.

  21.1.2009 03:47 #24

• eiamhere

  Quote:Quote:Originally posted by badkrma: and let's not forget about the cost of the game. I'm not interested in paying over $50 for a 10hour game. Keep the cost down so I don't feel so ripped off if the game is not to my entire liking. Then I can at least reason out the lost of my money.$50 is the going rate. If you decide to steeling that game because you don't think it's worth that, it's still called steeling.
  
  I don't think Air Nike's are worth $150, but I don't go out and steel them.edit: never really liked Steam on a personal level, but have more respect for them, now that they are showing some sense and understanding.
  
  
  The difference is that you can try on the Nikes in store. Look at the design, be sure it's what you want. Many games now-a-days are sub-par, but still retail at extortionate prices. You can't even rely on review sites any more, as even the supposed un-biased sites are now "sponsored" by this companies.
  
  Also, like dvd release, regions has a negative affect on the market, but big corporations like to milk every last ounce out of people.

  21.1.2009 03:48 #25

• emugamer

  Quote:Quote:id say the law says it. its funy to see pirates justifying thier actions. snotty 14 years olds who are cooped in their room, who cant affored money for games....
  
  
  oops was that a generalisation?!
  I and masses of others see nothing funny about it. What I just proposed is a logical, justifiable, rationalization....even in professional circles this is expected, & even demanded to make a valid argument. Your reply consisted of 2 sentences. Your first, attempted to prove your point by "DEFAULT". Quote:I'd say the law says it. Yes we know the law says this. Laws (in our view) twisted by lobby interests, corporate bullying, and paid off officials. Yet you go on as though the "law" is an infallable authority in and of itself. Keep in mind the import and stamp tax on the colonies was "LAW". Jews not allowed to operate buisneses during Nazi rule was "LAW". Blacks in usa were property by "LAW". So your "default law" argument held no weight in the past, and still does not today. (in and of itself).
  
  Quote:its funy to see pirates justifying thier actions.
  By your next statement, you not only attempt to speak with indifference and disregard, but dismiss any pirate who adopts ideals seperate from your "Default law ideology".
  
  To finish your statment you end with:[quote]snotty 14 years olds who are cooped in their room, who cant affored money for games....
  oops was that a generalisation?! Your last utterance here is a cheap,lazy,uninformed,indolent,and insolent way to deal with a well thought out opinion. You Shame your audiance with diminuation, and lower your antagonists to a level below you in a fashion that serves to help you feel superior.
  
  
  Please construct well thought out points with solid concepts. Otherwise your words are just ramblings of a self rightous, social evangelist.Well thought out and reasoned. I agree. It's something that's always been on my mind. The law is made with a self-serving agenda.
  
  Quote:id say the law says it. its funy to see pirates justifying thier actions.I hope you were joking. It's hard to believe that there are still people that making ignorant comments like that. If more Germans questioned the law, then it's possible the Holocaust would never have happened, or would have been significanly reduced. If you were a German during those times and your neighbor was killed for harboring a Jew, would you say the same thing? An extreme example, but just replace the word "pirates" with any other word for any other situation. There is something inherently wrong with copywrite laws and IP laws. There are no reliable studies and therefore no solid data to back up any claims of losses. The media giants are in bed with the politicians (just like big oil) who don't understand the digital age.
  
  There has to be some concern when someone goes to jail or fined an absurd amount of money for sharing with someone else. I understand if the people sharing were actively making a profit, thereby cutting into the media's profit, but unjust punishments are being handed out to anyone and everyone.
  
  I'm done with my rant. Thanks Shegax for the thoughts. Pretty much summed up what's been on my mind for a while.

  21.1.2009 10:32 #26

• spamual

  lol i find it funny how you compare priacy to something as serious and disturbing as the holocaust or slavery.... what an arguemnet to build up on.
  
  is that how badly you think you need to justify stealing?
  
  
  i mean i understand if it was becuase your family was going to starve to death, but my gawd, 6 million jews dying?! thats the reason you do it.... wow.... im converted then, now im definately sure your right(!)
  
  hehe. as i said, you internet criminals, get some jobs please.

  21.1.2009 13:01 #27

• emugamer

  Originally posted by spamual: lol i find it funny how you compare priacy to something as serious and disturbing as the holocaust or slavery.... what an arguemnet to build up on.
  
  is that how badly you think you need to justify stealing?
  
  
  i mean i understand if it was becuase your family was going to starve to death, but my gawd, 6 million jews dying?! thats the reason you do it.... wow.... im converted then, now im definately sure your right(!)
  
  hehe. as i said, you internet criminals, get some jobs please.Yes, it's an extreme example, but it's not a direct comparison. It's the principle behind it.
  
  Quote:A principle is the underlying part (or spirit) of the basis for an evolutionary normative or formative development, which is the object of subjective experience and/or interpretation. For example, the ethics of someone may be seen as a set of principles that the individual obeys in the form of rules, as guidance or law. These principles thus form the basis for such ethics.
  
  The point of principle allows to create all probable versions under its subjective theme, as its reality creation/evolvement under that subject is open-ended and unpredictable relying on choice and option. Rules and laws capture a consensus that certain actions and events will occur under a principle (or a combination of principles).
  
  A principled view for example, implies that an individual has a firm understanding of the underlying principle(s) of events and the rules and laws which govern them inherently and according to our consensus.You want to hear extreme - how about prison for burning a copy of a DVD? I need to see proof that it's stealing. Show me how it's stealing and I might agree with your opinion. I haven't heard anyone provide any solid foundation to the argument that it's stealing. And don't direct me to the MPAA movie trailers that show kids buying burned copies from street vendors. Try to understand the concept before responding. I'm looking for an intelligent rebuttal, because in the last few years I haven't heard a single one. If you can't come up with more than "it's stealing because they told me it's stealing" then don't bother.
  
  edit - I forget to add the "hehe"

  21.1.2009 15:04 #28

• DXR88

  ah, i love a good fight on the news threads. thats what aD's all about.

  21.1.2009 15:55 #29

• nintenut

  Originally posted by DXR88: sure man we people of America have it made, if i get lucky i might get to keep My House(with utility's) and My Car, and some 15 dollars left over for food.
  
  Get real man, honest hardworking people don't make shit. now lying, stealing, killing people,drug trafficking thats where the monies is.
  
  wait 6 months for game to come down in price, your funny try 2-3 years.
  If you're worried about becoming homeless, losing your car, and have $15 for food, what the f*ck are you doing playing video games?
  
  First off, it's not nearly that bad for most people. If it is that way for you, get your ass off the computer, get a job, make money. It's not that difficult, go to a freaking Mcdonald's and sign up. Maybe if you had gotten an education and learned that "Money" plural isn't "Monies", you'd be able to get a better job.
  
  Secondly, maybe "Honest, hard working people" aren't making money because people aren't buying their games.
  
  The lying and stealing comment came out of freaking nowhere, not sure how to respond to that. 9_9
  
  2-3 years? I don't know what freaking bizzaro world you're living in, but that only happens for a very small percentage of games... And, hell, then you can get it used. We're not in Russia, either, you can get things for different prices at different places.
  
  "Get real man", indeed.
  
  Originally posted by DXR88: ah, i love a good fight on the news threads. thats what aD's all about.
  I agree, nothing more fun than tearing down flawed reasoning. =P

  21.1.2009 22:24 #30

• DXR88

  oh i have a job you *, otherwise i wouldn't own a house and a car. one other thing, i fix computer's for a living. what do you do? you neglected to mention that.
  
  you spouted guesses, you think you know me. you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
  
  im done with, you anybody else.

  22.1.2009 00:20 #31

• nintenut

  Originally posted by DXR88: oh i have a job you *, otherwise i wouldn't own a house and a car. one other thing, i fix computer's for a living. what do you do? you neglected to mention that.
  
  you spouted guesses, you think you know me. you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
  
  im done with, you anybody else.
  Ooh, way to get me. Ignoring my arguments against your drivel and running away from the discussion. You don't look dumb.
  
  What I said was a rebuttal to the situation you provided. Maybe learn to read sentences? I never pretended to know you personally. What I said, because it looks like I'm going to have to spell it out for you:
  If you're in such a bad place financially, as in the situation you gave as an example as to why American game piracy is justified, you have no business complaining about the price of things that would take up time better spent digging yourself out of that hole, in my example, a weekend job. That's just plain irresponsible.
  Also, throwing out names? I'm hurt.
  
  What I do has nothing to do with this, why bring it up? It pays for my food, rent, and entertainment, that's good enough.

  22.1.2009 03:34 #32

• IPRFenix

  A lot of you are using the fact that you can buy used copies of games at reduced prices to justify your cost related arguments. That example does not help your argument, it seriously hurts it.
  
  Digital Piracy - Content creators aren't reimbursed for the copy. Money never leaves your hands. You still retain the possibility of becoming a potential costumer since your spending funds weren't reduced by the acquisition of said copy. You leave your self open to the ever remote chance of having legal action being taken against you (minute sense of danger). Even if you pirate en mass, your funds for a potential purchase do not decline.
  
  Second hand stores - Content creators aren't reimbursed for the copy. Money does leave your hands. You are very likely to no longer be a potential costumer because your spending funds were reduced by the acquisition of said copy. Absolutely no chance of legal action being taken against you (complete sense of safety). If you purchase en mass, your funds are significantly reduced and there is no longer any chance of a potential sale from you.

  22.1.2009 17:15 #33

• nintenut

  Originally posted by IPRFenix: A lot of you are using the fact that you can buy used copies of games at reduced prices to justify your cost related arguments. That example does not help your argument, it seriously hurts it.
  
  Digital Piracy - Content creators aren't reimbursed for the copy. Money never leaves your hands. You still retain the possibility of becoming a potential costumer since your spending funds weren't reduced by the acquisition of said copy. You leave your self open to the ever remote chance of having legal action being taken against you (minute sense of danger). Even if you pirate en mass, your funds for a potential purchase do not decline.
  
  Second hand stores - Content creators aren't reimbursed for the copy. Money does leave your hands. You are very likely to no longer be a potential costumer because your spending funds were reduced by the acquisition of said copy. Absolutely no chance of legal action being taken against you (complete sense of safety). If you purchase en mass, your funds are significantly reduced and there is no longer any chance of a potential sale from you.
  "A lot of you"? Or just me? I didn't see anyone else mentioning used games.
  
  At Gamestop, if they have a used copy of a popular game, it counts as part of their stock of that game, they order more when they either sell out or are in short supply... If they have a big stack of used copies, why buy more new? If people didn't buy the used copies of that game, Gamestop wouldn't order more, they'd wait for the used ones to sell.

  22.1.2009 17:36 #34

• Bozobub

  Another blow to the "rent it or buy a used copy" old saw is that, in both the US and UK, rental and/or reselling of games is difficult or even directly prohibited if you actually follow the law. Think not? Then READ YOUR EULAS! Nearly wvery damn one of them, these days, requires you to obtain direct permission from the manufacturer to resell their software, as well as forbids pay-for-play (read: "rental", people - lol) usage.

  25.1.2009 17:44 #35