Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.
6.2.2009 18:50 #1
Originally posted by emugamer: Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.
This is just counting 2008, no head start...
6.2.2009 18:55 #2
Originally posted by emugamer: Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.This is only 2008 sales, the 'head start' isn't included.
Wii: 1 000 000
Xbox 360: 537 000
PS3: 390 000
PS3 is slowely getting off track. If the PS3 still wants to be part of the game they need a price reduction and more exclusives. Those two elements are currently in the Xbox 360, which is why I chose it over the PS3 and I'm very happy with it.
6.2.2009 19:37 #3
the ps3 game library is pretty dissapointing actually. there are a few great games, (uncharted) but i play more ps2 games on it than ps3, I am just lucky to have a backward compatable one or i would rarely use my ps3.
6.2.2009 20:01 #4
Imagine if the 360 was delayed 2 years because they didn't want to sell a beta to the public.
Wouldn't the PS3 bad price or not be carrying the industry?
The PS3 has issues but they are being dealt with like slow falling dominoes so it comes down to the 360s aging hardware and fail issues versus the PS3s lack of games one of them will only get better in time.....
7.2.2009 00:22 #5
Maybe, but that's not what happened.
The key phrase there is "Slow moving". I may feel the need to buy a PS3 by 2012, provided they have a few more exclusive titles.
Oh, you mean the hardware issues that were recently addressed? Yeah, Jasper.
And the 360 isn't even that far behind the PS3 in terms of processor and graphics power, there's barely a difference in most games... In the PS3's favor, anyway.
7.2.2009 01:05 #6
Originally posted by nintenut: Maybe, but that's not what happened.
The key phrase there is "Slow moving". I may feel the need to buy a PS3 in 2011, provided they have a few more exclusive titles.
Oh, you mean the hardware issues that were recently addressed? Yeah, Jasper.
And the 360 isn't even that far behind the PS3 in terms of processor and graphics power, there's barely a difference in most games... In the PS3's favor, anyway.No they are not not(in fact I think the 360 has a better/easier time at graphics but the PS3 is catching up in detail and magnitude) but more over the disc size is a huge issue as MP games can not be put on multi discs and whats the 360 number 1 or 2 game type?
I consider the fail rate to be 10-15% now, the 360 is still a Frankenstein in terms of hardware design.
7.2.2009 01:11 #7
That is a good point, I can see that being a problem eventually...
7.2.2009 01:33 #8
Originally posted by Paladore: the ps3 game library is pretty dissapointing actually. there are a few great games, (uncharted) but i play more ps2 games on it than ps3, I am just lucky to have a backward compatable one or i would rarely use my ps3.
I bought a wii in 2008, and have had a ps2 for some years. If the currernt ps3 would have been able to play ps2 games, I would have bought a ps3 instead of the wii (no matter what the price, since the money spent on games will quickly make the price for the console quite insignificant anyway).
7.2.2009 02:30 #9
Originally posted by nintenut: That is a good point, I can see that being a problem eventually...We've already had 1 MP game to get a heavy down grade for the 360, one of the racing games anyway, so its a issue but most devs would rather not go all out only to dumb it down on their preferred console. However the PS3 is catching up and it will be interesting to see if they start sergeing in software sales and how the industry will adapt. Once devs lean to the PS3 the 360 days are numbered, for now the coding/optimizing issues and number of units out are the sticking point that slows them getting to it.
The 360 is am monster and its worst feature is the mish mash design, but the core elements of the brand it make it strong for industry and consumer alike.
But once the tipping point hits the market will get interesting...
7.2.2009 03:28 #10
Quote:Originally posted by emugamer: Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.This is only 2008 sales, the 'head start' isn't included.
Wii: 1 000 000
Xbox 360: 537 000
PS3: 390 000
PS3 is slowely getting off track. If the PS3 still wants to be part of the game they need a price reduction and more exclusives. Those two elements are currently in the Xbox 360, which is why I chose it over the PS3 and I'm very happy with it.Could someone clarify what is being stated in the article? I could be totally off here.
Quote:In comparison, Nintendo has sold over 1 million Wii units and Microsoft has sold 537,000 Xbox 360 units. The term has sold indicates to me that the 1 million Wii's and 537k 360's are total customer base sales. Especially since it follows Sony's customer base sales in the article.
2008:
PS3: 143,000
Install base for the country:
Xbox 360: 537,000
PS3: 390,000
MS had a year head start and they are 147,000 units ahead. Roughly the amount of units sold in Australia in 1 year.
7.2.2009 10:40 #11
I just want to say that I love the Wii and HATE the PS3!!
7.2.2009 12:27 #12
Quote:Originally posted by emugamer: Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.This is only 2008 sales, the 'head start' isn't included.
Wii: 1 000 000
Xbox 360: 537 000
PS3: 390 000
PS3 is slowely getting off track. If the PS3 still wants to be part of the game they need a price reduction and more exclusives. Those two elements are currently in the Xbox 360, which is why I chose it over the PS3 and I'm very happy with it.Exclusives and price aren't the problem imo, its just very poor marketing. Consumers don't know about its exclusives and what other features the ps3 has besides the fact that it plays games and is a bluray player. And they repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot because of this crappy marketing; more recently with the killzone demo which required a preorder to obtain before the game comes out. Like you see xbox and wii commercials everywhere for their exclusives and the occasional multiplat but there's jack all for the ps3's exclusives and pretty much none for the console itself anymore.
7.2.2009 18:44 #13
Panasonic was giving a wii away with every vierra also..
7.2.2009 19:37 #14
Quote:Quote:Originally posted by emugamer: Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.This is only 2008 sales, the 'head start' isn't included.
Wii: 1 000 000
Xbox 360: 537 000
PS3: 390 000
PS3 is slowely getting off track. If the PS3 still wants to be part of the game they need a price reduction and more exclusives. Those two elements are currently in the Xbox 360, which is why I chose it over the PS3 and I'm very happy with it.Exclusives and price aren't the problem imo, its just very poor marketing. Consumers don't know about its exclusives and what other features the ps3 has besides the fact that it plays games and is a bluray player. And they repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot because of this crappy marketing; more recently with the killzone demo which required a preorder to obtain before the game comes out. Like you see xbox and wii commercials everywhere for their exclusives and the occasional multiplat but there's jack all for the ps3's exclusives and pretty much none for the console itself anymore.Agreed.
8.2.2009 10:54 #15
That's just plain business economics.. Advertising is expensive and marketing departments need to show an effective return on the outlay.
You don't often see turkeys advertised unless it is the time of year when people eat them, same with the ps3.. it's a turkey and sony know it. They are trying to maximise profits from sales by cutting the advertising budget. That's the same reason there is no price cut.. they are happy to make profit from every one sold. They have publicly said they don't care about the "console war".. the typical stance of any business when it has already well and truly lost it's customer base. It will sell to those who want it, and nobody else. People have different requirements from a games console.. usually they will have a blu player if they are that kind of consumer, so that feature is pointless.. add to that the way it isn't styled to fit in a multimedia setup.. standard rackmount styling would have been better IMHO if that was the market they were aiming at.. as it is I would have a hard time finding where it does actually fit. Is it a games console or an expensive dvd player? The lack of exclusive game titles leads me to believe sony also have the same dilemma.
Simple fact.. he retailers and the buying public see it as an overpriced lump of hardware with very few "special" features to justify ownership. Like trying to sell frozen turkeys in July.. not a lot of point really XD
8.2.2009 11:14 #16
varnull
Why not advertise games in a 5 minute block on the games themselves before the start menu, skipable of coarse, having 5-10 non big game titles(all the big game titles will have plenty of adverts), it could work but their would need to be a assaitaion of some kind to lick wounds, take fees and sort out the lulzy mess.
8.2.2009 13:18 #17
Well, the fact that PS3 is (still) retailing here in Australia for around $700 and the other two consoles are about half that price might be crippling their sales just a bit :|
9.2.2009 07:59 #18
Quote:The company did confess however that 70,000 of those units were not sold, and instead were given away during a Bravia LCD promotion.hahahaha The part missing in this statement is that u had to get the massive Sony Screens too even be offered the PS3. I saw this offer promotion last year and the TV you had to buy to get the ps3 for free was priced a RRP $10,000
10.2.2009 00:11 #19
bottom line is PS3 may not have enough exclusives to some people but the reason most PS2 supporters havenot bought a PS3 is not b/c PS2 still has games. Its b/c PS3 is too expensive compared to its competition regardless of having a blueray player and the Legend of the cell processors capabilities.
10.2.2009 05:16 #20
Fan boys :D
10.2.2009 06:02 #21
Originally posted by i_am_alex: Fanboi's :D
FGQT
Anyway the PS3 is costly that drives down sales first and foremost.
I mean look at the 360 even with as high of a fail rate as 60% off the production line(30% off the shelf) people lapped it up becuse of its price..or because frat boys are drunkards......but..
hehehehehe :P
And lets not bring up the WII and its drooling consumers :P
10.2.2009 06:16 #22
Actually, considering the size of Australia, and their layout of major cities mainly on their coasts, this is actually a GOOD number for PS3, especially in relation to our country. While we might not see the numbers great increasing here, step back and take a look closer at them and you'll see it, yes it's still lagging BUT improving and heading ever so slowly in the right direction . .
11.2.2009 05:38 #23
Quote:Quote:The company did confess however that 70,000 of those units were not sold, and instead were given away during a Bravia LCD promotion.hahahaha The part missing in this statement is that u had to get the massive Sony Screens too even be offered the PS3. I saw this offer promotion last year and the TV you had to buy to get the ps3 for free was priced a RRP $10,000That's not true. I work in AV Retail. The late 2008 Bravia promotion was that a free PS3 was given with every full HD (even the 32" V Series) LCD TV capped at a limit of 35,000. It must have been the promotion for Dec '07/Jan '08 that made up the difference for the rest.
http://www.sony.com.au/article.jsp?id=4047
Also, those that are saying that the below sales figures are for 2008 only...
Wii: 1,000,000+
XBox 360: 537,000
PS3: 390,000 (+70,000 given away in promotion)
That is completely incorrect. The article clearly states that that those figures are the total install base for the Country. I am not sure about other stores but I know where I work, we sell about four PS3's to every one XBox 360. However, the Wii is definitely the most popular game console.
12.2.2009 06:19 #24
Originally posted by BTFan: Originally posted by emugamer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not too bad actually compared to the 360. A 147,000 unit difference. And MS had exactly a 1-year head start in Australia. Pull out the 70,000 for 2008 and they sold 143,000 in Australia. Seems like they are somewhat on track. Hopefully they will have the rumored price cut this year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is only 2008 sales, the 'head start' isn't included.
Wii: 1 000 000
Xbox 360: 537 000
PS3: 390 000
PS3 is slowely getting off track. If the PS3 still wants to be part of the game they need a price reduction and more exclusives. Those two elements are currently in the Xbox 360, which is why I chose it over the PS3 and I'm very happy with it.Originally posted by emugamer:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison, Nintendo has sold over 1 million Wii units and Microsoft has sold 537,000 Xbox 360 units.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The term has sold indicates to me that the 1 million Wii's and 537k 360's are total customer base sales. Especially since it follows Sony's customer base sales in the article.
2008:
PS3: 143,000
Install base for the country:
Xbox 360: 537,000
PS3: 390,000
MS had a year head start and they are 147,000 units ahead. Roughly the amount of units sold in Australia in 1 year.
Originally posted by Ryu77:
Also, those that are saying that the below sales figures are for 2008 only...
Wii: 1,000,000+
XBox 360: 537,000
PS3: 390,000 (+70,000 given away in promotion)
That is completely incorrect. The article clearly states that that those figures are the total install base for the Country.FINALLY!!! THANK YOU!!!!
12.2.2009 09:27 #25
Ah, all the usual suspects lol.
With the advent of standalone BluRay players becoming really cheap, well... see: Hope Fades for PS3 as a Comeback Player
As this is the Wall Street Journal's opinion I'd say Sony were in deep sh!t.
I see ads for PS3 related stuff on telly in Australia, more than I do 360 stuff or Wii- but not too much of any of them really. I see far more for movies and live shows, which surprises me as the games industry is meant to make more than the film industry.
Blu-Ray isn't hugely important for games, ever since NEX I see the vast majority of games don't come anywhere near the limits of a DL DVD still (yes I know there are a couple of exceptions). Come on, Sony added that because they wanted to promote their new movie format and HDTVs; and to discourage piracy.
Other game shops here will tell you they sell far more 360s in Oz than PS3s- so who can you believe? The opinion of GameFix is that both consoles are crap buildwise- they're overjoyed!
Consoles are about cheap gaming and Sony lost the plot somewhere, PS3 games cost $10 more than the same 360 version and because of the PS3's poor GPU don't look any better.
But fanboys will say anything to score points... one the other day told me that the graphics of Little Big Planet were vastly superior to anything the 360 could do. Even if that bunkum were true... who the hell cares lol!
Ninty saw the writing on the wall when their graphically superior Game Cube was outsold by the PS2- so they took a different direction.
Krazy Ken's approach to programming just doesn't seem to cut it at the complicated HD level of today's gaming. You need to spend a ton of dough to get the PS3 up to standard. Hence the lack of exclusives.
Shame really, because competition is good for all of us. Sony used to have such great exclusives, hopefully they'll get back on track.
Meanwhile, I think I'll just upgrade my PC, cos I want to game in true high anti-aliased native 1080p now!
ROFL
17.2.2009 11:09 #26
Jemborg, do I know you? Besides the fact that you mentioned "Ah, all the usual suspects lol.", when I seldom post on a PS3 news thread these days. Unless you were referring to the others. Also, your style of posting seems very fimiliar. Hmmm...
Is there another device that... Plays Blu-ray & DVD movies, has a HD twin tuner DVR, streams media, has internet browsing, stores a variety of media types on it's (upgradable) hard drive, plays games in native 1080p (Contrary to what you believe... Admittedly not all are 1080p but there are quite a few that are).
I believe the PS3 sells because it delivers! The modern age gamer isn't 5 - 15 years of age anymore and therefore are interested in a more complete entertainment device. Sony knows this, which is why they created the PS3 in this manner.
18.2.2009 04:48 #27
"the ps3 sells because it delivers".. WTF.. going off the official sales figures the whole point of this topic is the ps3 doesn't sell.. so by your logic then it also doesn't deliver..
comparing an initial launch rush against total for others is invalid.. and we all know how $ony like to skew figures by quoting numbers shipped to wholesalers not actual units sold over the counter. I fully believe the evidence of my own eyes when it comes to ps3 availability and game sales.. it has sold close to nothing, most mainstream (not specifically game console) high street retailers are dropping it because it is a non-seller.
before I get started on reliablilty.. just how many of those BR drives have now failed in service?.. $ony fanboys aren't going to post about that are they.. even though they are on system 4 to date.
18.2.2009 05:14 #28
Originally posted by varnull: "the ps3 sells because it delivers".. WTF.. going off the official sales figures the whole point of this topic is the ps3 doesn't sell.. so by your logic then it also doesn't deliver..
comparing an initial launch rush against total for others is invalid.. and we all know how $ony like to skew figures by quoting numbers shipped to wholesalers not actual units sold over the counter. I fully believe the evidence of my own eyes when it comes to ps3 availability and game sales.. it has sold close to nothing, most mainstream (not specifically game console) high street retailers are dropping it because it is a non-seller.
before I get started on reliablilty.. just how many of those BR drives have now failed in service?.. $ony fanboys aren't going to post about that are they.. even though they are on system to date.I see the article in a different light. So the PS3's total unit sales of 460,000 compared to the 360's 537,000 when they had a year head start adds up to non performance? I also see the results with my own experience. Did you miss the part that I work in a major electrical retail store in Australia? I also clearly stated that the Wii easily sells more than both of those two. I also see this in my own store. I will agree that the figures could be better but I feel that all the PS3 needs is a decent price drop for sales to skyrocket.
What is the XBox 360 fail rate compared to the PS3? I would guess at least 3 to 1.
How about answering the main part to my question?...
Quote:Is there another device that... Plays Blu-ray & DVD movies, has a HD twin tuner DVR, streams media, has internet browsing, stores a variety of media types on it's (upgradable) hard drive, plays games in native 1080p (Contrary to what you believe... Admittedly not all are 1080p but there are quite a few that are).You also managed to quote one section ("the ps3 sells because it delivers") without the following information that backed that statement...
Quote:The modern age gamer isn't 5 - 15 years of age anymore and therefore are interested in a more complete entertainment device. Sony knows this, which is why they created the PS3 in this manner.Instead of going off tap in every direction possible like you always seem to do why don't you try having a mature conversation that relates to more than a single sentence of my post. The reason I no longer post in these news articles anymore is because they are always bombarded with people like you that have nothing but negative words to say. I will continue to enjoy my high end Home Theatre set up in which my PS3 blends right into... While you continue to enjoy... Your??
18.2.2009 06:16 #29
Thank you again Ryu77....this is exactly what I was trying to explain in the very first post. But it's not that you see it in a different light. It's that you actually read the article, did the math and came to the correct conclusion.
Sony is doing about the same as Microsoft in Australia according to the numbers presented. Whether the numbers are skewed or not is another story, but average consoles sold per year between MS and Sony is roughly the same. Meanwhile, the Wii is kicking their tales in terms of sales. When you think about it, the price gap between the 360 and PS3 has continued to grow, with the 360 becoming cheaper and cheaper due to MS releasing budget versions. And still the PS3 is selling about as much as the 360. Even with the 360 priced close to the Wii, it doesn't seem to be able to compete.
18.2.2009 08:05 #30
Originally posted by Ryu77: I see the article in a different light. So the PS3's total unit sales of 460,000 compared to the 360's 537,000 when they had a year head start adds up to non performance?The PS3 was launched March 2007 in Australia.
PS3: 460,000 in 2 years = 230,000 annual sales
360: 537,000 in 3 years = 179,000 annual sales
The PS3 had larger annual sales even with a higher price. I don't know what's so bad with that.
18.2.2009 08:16 #31
Originally posted by Ryu77: While you continue to enjoy... Your??Haha, I'll get around to telling you that in a sec.
But first... yeah, I probably am one of the "usual suspects" myself Ryu77 :). I was just having a gentle tease- not flaming. I often banter with Zippy or others. I'll take em to task... but we're cool. But specifically, no, I was not referring to you.
If you think I am uninformed about these matters, better think again mate.
A console makes a pretty poor multi-media device imo. But I'll concede that as a sort of n00b entry level thing... it's expensively adequate... barely.
So what do I enjoy? I built a sexy mATX rig that basically poops on any console from heaven above. And it looks awesome if I do say so myself. Using XP rather than crap Media Centre, it not only plays BluRay and HD-DVDs it can burn DVDs as well. With 1TB of RAID0 I can rip HD movies and do what I like with them. Regardless of the six onboard SATA II drive ports, it has 10 USB2 ports. I can decode and encode in any format or codec I want AND using any program I want too. From FLAC to LAME it does it all. Can I steam wirelessly over my network?... hell yes. Can I Bittorrent whilst watching a film or just generally multitask?... natch. It decodes HD movies in hardware and upscales DVDs perfectly in hardware... unlike the PS3's software solutions. IQ is great btw- nVidia PureVideo HD. It has 2.4 GHz wireless keyboard and MM 10 button mouse and with a cheap dongle I wirelessly use any X360 peripheral I want with it as well. Of course, it has a dual digital HD tuner card, that also has S-VHS/AV standard inputs for converting, say, my old videos. Digital audio input/output onboard. Natch, the Gainward fanless silentFX 8600GT 512 DDR3 has HDMI out, since it's outputing to to a Panasonic 50" plasma (sure, I have a sound system to match), it's a perfectly adequate card for gaming in 720p at least. It's totally upgradable too, I will add a BluRay burner someday, more HD space, perhaps a dual GPU card and quad core. But the best thing is... it's almost completely silent. Much much quieter than a PS3.
This is the kicker Ryu77... it doesn't cost any more, or even less, to build than a HD upgraded PS3 with the yet to be released dual HD tuner addon (PlayTV > $299AUD btw); and it's much more reliable.
So, from my point of view as a 49yo gamer the PS3 is a bit of a rip off. It doesn't sell "...because it delivers!"... if it sells it's because of hype.
It's pretty rich that you should come down on the knowledgeable and outspoken varnull for singling out a sentence of your post mate. Apart from my above "usual suspects" jest- you only selectively singled out "Consoles are about cheap gaming..." to challenge and...
Quote:...plays games in native 1080p (Contrary to what you believe... Admittedly not all are 1080p but there are quite a few that are).Unless you are talking of some downloadable arcade games, that is utter bollocks. Even LBP, a 2.5D jumper, is coming in at 720p, and that's an exception! So name them. The PS3 has a lameass GPU holding it back. Both the PS3 and the X360 are able to display native 1080p but for hi-end games ... they won't.
More on topic... it hasn't escaped my attention that the Wall Street Journal article Hope Fades for PS3 as a Comeback Player has eluded comment by the true believers, who prefer to diddle with figures instead. Lmao.
*shrugs* Perhaps you know me from the GG or Escapist sites?
18.2.2009 12:51 #32
Originally posted by Jemborg: It's pretty rich that you should come down on the knowledgeable and outspoken varnull for singling out a sentence of your post mate. Apart from my above "usual suspects" jest- you only selectively singled out "Consoles are about cheap gaming..." to challenge and...^^ The first I am yet to see, the latter I see constantly.
Of course I am going to discuss what the PS3 offers for the price as that is the topic of the article... Sales!
Jemborg, whilst you replied to something that wasn't directed at you. I am very impressed that you could build a machine like you described for less than or equivalent to a PS3. I built my PC myself which is quite similar to your description (albeit I have a quad core and a newer series card) and I also price shopped on parts. End result was about $1,500 Aus Dollars compared to the $599 that I paid for my PS3 with a bonus new release ($110 RRP) game, so $599 - $110 = $489. So that equals about 3 times the price in my books... Was there something I missed? So, is it really fair to compare those two against each other? I too am after a little more which is why I built my PC but it's in a completely different price bracket. The PS3 is great value for what you get and hopefully soon there will be a major price drop to align it with the tight economy at the moment.
18.2.2009 14:41 #33
Originally posted by Ryu77: Of course I am going to discuss what the PS3 offers for the price as that is the topic of the article... Sales!
Jemborg, whilst you replied to something that wasn't directed at you. I am very impressed that you could build a machine like you described for less than or equivalent to a PS3. I built my PC myself which is quite similar to your description (albeit I have a quad core and a newer series card) and I also price shopped on parts. End result was about $1,500 Aus Dollars compared to the $599 that I paid for my PS3 with a bonus new release ($110 RRP) game, so $599 - $110 = $489. So that equals about 3 times the price in my books... Was there something I missed? So, is it really fair to compare those two against each other? I too am after a little more which is why I built my PC but it's in a completely different price bracket. The PS3 is great value for what you get and hopefully soon there will be a major price drop to align it with the tight economy at the moment."Jemborg, whilst you replied to something that wasn't directed at you..." Well to nit-pick Ryu... true. Strictly speaking, what you did ask was, "Is there another device that... Plays Blu-ray & DVD movies, has a HD twin tuner DVR, streams media, has internet browsing, stores a variety of media types on it's (upgradable) hard drive, plays games...(?)" And I note that you criticised varull for not answering this question rhetorically addressed to me. In that jaundiced spirit I choose to answer, "While you continue to enjoy... Your??", plus it was more succinct.
On the HTS rig... "So, is it really fair to compare those two against each other?" Of course. I've done a re-evaluation of the cost of the parts needed and it's as cheap as now. If you make less of a concession to gaming you don't even need to buy a gfx card! It depends on how far you want to go- Btw, I noticed you dropped the PlayTV ($299AUS+) addon from your calcs here. I might as well build such a device with a 60gig HDD then. Since citing the upgradable HDD as value, you should note that a HTS mATX rig is by far much more upgradable and versatile... ergo, better value. (Note, it has DVD burning capacity as well.) Factoring in the price of a $110 game is an interesting ploy... that would depend on the game, for example, as much as I've supported the idea of LBP on other forums, I have no interest in playing the game myself. Besides, M$ have done the same thing themselves and would do so again if they felt threatened.
I can see where you're coming from Ryu77 but bringing in your own rig's price defiantly isn't a fair comparison. But let's start here...Super5 CPC-901B mATX Case with Clear Windows That's the case I have.
So, especially counting in versatility and upgradablity, the PS3 ain't great value for money. However, if someone was keen on the thing I would not stop them- but knowing the alternatives not a bad thing.
On a major price drop soon... Since you (and others) have studiously avoided the Wall Steet Journal's obviously embarrassing article Hope Fades for PS3 as a Comeback Player I'm going to quote from it:
"Industry watchers say they were surprised Sony didn't cut PS3 prices to boost sales before the holidays. One reason may be Sony Chief Executive Howard Stringer's commitment to making the games division profitable after heavy investment in the PS3 machine. (All) Console makers hope to eventually recoup development investment with game sales and production cost reductions. Sony is still losing money on every PS3 it sells at $399, so a price cut could push the games division back into the red, analysts say.
"With Stringer saying, 'We will be profitable,' you can't cut price," says Michael Pachter, a research analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities in Los Angeles."
Of course, price cuts will happen... just don't hold your breath on how much and when. April seems most likely in the States, and if you think Sony cares more about the Australian market than the American one... well, judge them by how much they charge for games in Oz compared to over there.
Sony fanboys should perhaps remove their rose-coloured spectacles and see that it's more of a horses-for-courses situation. Why should they insist that it's better value for someone like me that I should have to pay extra for features that I don't need, won't use ,and don't care about?
Are they going to insist that the Wall Street Journal is just populated by Wii and X360 fanboys? Ignoring comments like... "The sales decline is a heavy blow to Sony..., Analysts say they expect PS3 sales for this month (Dec) to be flat or lower than last year, while sales for its rivals are likely to rise..., Microsoft cut Xbox 360 prices in early September and started bundling games with the most basic console for $199 (so they do that too)... Sony also is suffering from a lack of attractive titles that are exclusive to the PS3..."
And most importantly for your argument Ryu... "Part of Sony's strategy hinged on selling the PS3 as a relatively inexpensive Blu-ray player. But prices of Blu-ray players have fallen so sharply recently -- new players are available for less than $200 -- that it's possible to buy a Blu-ray player and an Xbox 360 for less than a PS3."
Well done on building your own rig btw. Regards.
PS: varnull, has had experience in the console repair business, as I have. For all her acerbic nature, she has been one of the few with the guts to stand up to the cavalcade of PS3 hype that sometimes pierce these forums. We often disagree, but she is one of the few that has acknowledged the considered reasonableness of my arguments.
19.2.2009 03:26 #34
Jemborg, that is an interesting article. I certainly agree that a price drop is overdue for the PS3. I will also agree that in my store the PS3 was an easy sell when Blu-ray Players were in the $500+ mark for an entry level player. Now that that Blu-ray players are steadily dropping in price, I can't help but wonder why the PS3 hasn't aligned its RRP accordingly. Unless there was some sort of flaming from the other members of the Blu-ray Disc Association (Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic etc.) because their sales weren't as strong as anticipated... Who knows?
By the way, the game I got was Resistance 2, as I said a it was a new release a few months back when I bought it. I do have the advantage of working in Audio Visual retail, so I know when the perfect time to buy something is...
I actually get really nice staff pricing (often times I can buy direct from the manufacturer) on anything I want to buy but at one point we were selling PS3's for $599 with a bonus latest release game (just before Christmas) but this offer was a drawcard to get customers in the door, and yes we had plenty of stock. We would have sold a few hundred units during that sale period. This offer was so hot that staff were not allowed to purchase it (well not in conjunction with the interest free finance offer we had running at the same time), so I took in our sale catalogue (excuse the Australian/English spelling) to a competitor that has a price matching policy and I got my PS3! :-P
This was actually the 2nd PS3 I have purchased as I sold my first one to help pay for an overseas trip.
Yes, my PC isn't too bad. I did put some pretty decent hardware in it. Not the absolute top of the line in everything but I believe I found the sweet spot between performance and price.
That statement I made of "While you continue to enjoy... Your??"... Was more intended in a way that I feel that the PS3 does offer a complete entertainment solution that blends quite well with any modern Home Theatre decor. I guess I am just tired of people commenting in ways that I can't help but wonder if there is any jealousy as a driving factor.
19.2.2009 06:32 #35
Thanks for replying Ryu.
Heheh, way to stick it to your bosses who for some reason decided not to offer their own staff the same terms. Thumbs up.
Originally posted by Ryu77: I feel that the PS3 does offer a complete entertainment solution that blends quite well with any modern Home Theatre decor.I don't disagree- it's appealing in a kind of Apple Mac/iPod enthusiast sort of way. :D
Yes, who knows how these corporations make their decisions?- I'm personally baffled by Steam's so called reasons for their prices.
It is a trick to find the sweet spot between performance and price, the sky's the limit isn't it? Right now we are looking at a whole new generation of cpu processors and triple-channel DDR3, hi-performance GPU exploitation ironically coupled with software that hardly gets optimised compared to consoles.lol
So how is Resistance2 going? I hear the multiplayer is really godd (sic).
Personally I'm not adverse to getting a PS3 one day, but that will Probably be in about 2 years or so, and it will only be to play exclusives. Killzone2 and GOW3 look promising to me.
Still, so I don't get accused of going off topic... this - Sony to Close Main US PlayStation store - doesn't look too good. And I think M$ are nuts for opening their own store too, haha.
Cheers mate.
19.2.2009 11:18 #36
Originally posted by Jemborg: Thanks for replying Ryu.
Heheh, way to stick it to your bosses who for some reason decided not to offer their own staff the same terms. Thumbs up.Actually, it was more a ploy to get back at our competitor. They weren't happy at all to let one go at that price. I could have bought a PS3 from my store at that price if I really wanted to due being the top sales performer consistantly. However, we were actually losing money on each one we sold during that sale. There isn't a whole lot of margin in game consoles.
Originally posted by Jemborg: So how is Resistance2 going? I hear the multiplayer is really godd (sic).Have only played it to test it. I am that far back logged in games that I probably wont get to play my PS3 for 2 years either... J/K. Truthfully though, I have at least 100 PS2 games that I haven't played and about 10 awesome PC titles burning to bust a move on my PC. I still enjoy playing my PS2. I think gameplay wise, it just hits the spot.
19.2.2009 11:38 #37
Originally posted by Ryu77: However, we were actually losing money on each one we sold during that sale. There isn't a whole lot of margin in game consoles.Hang on, your store was losing money? What's the benefit to you guys for doing that? Attachment sales? How do you guarantee that they come back and buy games from you?
Quote:Truthfully though, I have at least 100 PS2 games that I haven't played and about 10 awesome PC titles burning to bust a move on my PC.*sigh* I know the feeling, I'm in the same boat. Still need to get onto Ico and SoTC, for instance. The PS2's been pretty good especially since I popped a 120gig HDD into it a while ago- saves on it's crap laser assembly too. Almost cheaper buying a new one rather than going to the hassle/expense of replacing it... again! Bloody turgid-like Killer7 took ages loading anyway, can't imagine doing it without the HDD. Got tons for the Xbox1 to get around to too. All my consoles play games off HDD now- fackin' awesome imho lol.
Quote: I still enjoy playing my PS2. I think gameplay wise, it just hits the spot.Shh, don't tell your customers!!! :D
Oh, and for the moderators... blah blah PS3 blah blah consoles blah blah sales blah blah blah... See? on-topic still. :P
19.2.2009 13:06 #38
Originally posted by Jemborg: Hang on, your store was losing money? What's the benefit to you guys for doing that? Attachment sales? How do you guarantee that they come back and buy games from you?Yes, as I mentioned earlier it was a drawcard to get customers in the door. It was Christmas time so it was a smart idea to "buy" customers. Our overall turnover and margins during the Christmas period were very good. It is common practice for a business to have a loss leader, something that they don't make any money on (or even lose a little) in order to gain customers. BTW, the margin in the games is even worse. I work in a large store that sells almost anything electrical (Computers, Game Consoles, iPods, Digital Cameras, Plasma/LCD TV's, Hi-Fi, Fridges etc. etc.) so it was almost guaranteed that this would lead into other sales. I am stationed in the Audio Visual section, although I often help out in other departments when they are busy.
Originally posted by Jemborg: Oh, and for the moderators... blah blah PS3 blah blah consoles blah blah sales blah blah blah... See? on-topic still. :PHahaha! :-D We are discussing PS3 sales, so it is on topic. Don't worry, I've seen these news articles stray much, much further than this before something is done by a moderator. Which is the exact reason why I don't like posting on them anymore (I mainly stick to looking after my threads in the Blu-ray/PS3 section).
19.2.2009 17:36 #39
Well, it makes sense, but I'm still quite surprised that you lose money on games!
Perhaps the WSJ article is a bit pessimistic, $ony expect to lose money initially after all. I wonder if the "Industry Analysts" took that into consideration properly? Or maybe Sony expected to be making an overall win from the game sales by now? Stringer was quoted as saying "we will be profitable".
Having had a good look at the guts of a fair number of PS3s by now needing repair I'm frankly baffled that they cost so much to produce. Unless it comes down to the cost of the XSM ram. Reliable BlueRay parts are so much cheaper now. The Cell, after all, is not an expensive chip, it was designed not to be. In fact, designed for folding by the hundreds in a "cheap" super-computer or over a network (controlled by a more conventional cpu). It's not just for PS3s.
It's the first of a family of Cells being produced. They even got around Kutaragi's absolute insistence that it have 8 SPEs instead of six- it's to do with die production size standards (see: Interview with Sony's Ken Kutaragi). It's been reported that Sony have dropped out of the shared development of the next versions, realising they don't want it for their TVs etc. It's even fundamentally based on the same IBM PowerPC architecture as the X360's modified Xenon cpu!
I wouldn't be surprised if $ony were considering giving Krazy Ken the "Golden Handshake"... "So long, and thanks for all the fish!" lol.
Originally posted by Ryu77: Originally posted by Jemborg: Oh, and for the moderators... blah blah PS3 blah blah consoles blah blah sales blah blah blah... See? on-topic still. :PHahaha! :-D We are discussing PS3 sales, so it is on topic. Don't worry,... Wot, me worry? :D Na, I was just kidding about. I'll look out for you in the Blu-Ray sections Ryu.
Cheers.
19.2.2009 20:15 #40
We don't actually lose money on the games but the profit margins are very skimpy. Keep in mind though, that as far as game consoles go I don't really know how much profit the manufacturer or distributor is making before it lands on our shelves. I do have this knowledge with AV though as that is the section I take care of. However, none of this I can disclose of course.
I think the main thing that needs to be considered with the profit and loss calculations is the years of R & D that need to be recouped, especially with the Blu-ray format.
19.2.2009 21:29 #41
Originally posted by Ryu77: I think the main thing that needs to be considered with the profit and loss calculations is the years of R & D that need to be recouped, especially with the Blu-ray format.Sorry to take so long to get back to this Ryu, really busy with other stuff. I started to respond to this but I just started a wall of text. So I'll keep it brief.
Cell BE - developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba employing pre-existing IBM tech.
RSX - Nvidia would have been expected to cough up the design of the RSX as part of the contract for supplying them, they would own the patents anyway.
XDR - rights are owned by Rambus corp.
Blu-ray - The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology. It was spearheaded by Sony but the funding group also comprises of Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung. Later members include Apple, TDK, Dell, Hewlett Packard, The Walt Disney Company, Warner Bros. and Universal Music Group.
So you see the major parts for the PS3 are jointly (at the least) developed. And their development has not been for the PS3 alone. So the PS3 has not been expected to cough up ALL the costs of it's R&D.
But R&D for the PS3 as a whole would also be a continuing thing too- Killzone2 looks pretty impressive graphically.
25.2.2009 19:06 #42
Originally posted by Jemborg: Originally posted by Ryu77: I think the main thing that needs to be considered with the profit and loss calculations is the years of R & D that need to be recouped, especially with the Blu-ray format.Sorry to take so long to get back to this Ryu, really busy with other stuff. I started to respond to this but I just started a wall of text. So I'll keep it brief.
Cell BE - developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba employing pre-existing IBM tech.
RSX - Nvidia would have been expected to cough up the design of the RSX as part of the contract for supplying them, they would own the patents anyway.
XDR - rights are owned by Rambus corp.
Blu-ray - The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology. It was spearheaded by Sony but the funding group also comprises of Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung. Later members include Apple, TDK, Dell, Hewlett Packard, The Walt Disney Company, Warner Bros. and Universal Music Group.
So you see the major parts for the PS3 are jointly (at the least) developed. And their development has not been for the PS3 alone. So the PS3 has not been expected to cough up ALL the costs of it's R&D.
But R&D for the PS3 as a whole would also be a continuing thing too- Killzone2 looks pretty impressive graphically.I am completely aware of this. I am more of a tech enthusiast then you may appreciate. :-)
Your point is certainly true, however, along with that point an important factor needs to be considered...
As you mentioned, most of the technology used in the PS3 was created through a collaboration of companies, so that also means profits will be shared to some degree... Patents, royalties, shareholders etc. It's not like Sony has the luxury of this amalgamated effort from all these major organisations contributing to what made the PS3 possible at a zero cost.
25.2.2009 22:04 #43
True but at least the R&D costs are shared, and across a broad range of machines.
I suspect the major cost would be the XDR... but I could be wrong.
Just as a joke check this out (it's unrelated)
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/so...stupid_piece_of
contains copious use of the "F' word btw.
25.2.2009 22:27 #44
