Sony president denies upcoming PS3 price cut rumors

Sony president Sir Howard Stringer has once again denied that the company will be dropping the price of the PlayStation 3, despite source after source asking for one.

Stringer responded first directly to Activision CEO Robert Kotick's comments that the developer may not support the PS3 if the price isn't cut this year.

"He likes to make a lot of noise," added Stringer, via GI.biz. "He's putting pressure on me and I'm putting pressure on him. That's the nature of business."

Stringer was then asked about whether a price cut was 'logical.' "I (would) lose money on every PlayStation I make - how's that for logic?," added Stringer.

Explaining the lack of a price cut, Stringer added: "We feel that we're sacrificing the short term to pay dividends in the long term. People are having short-term thinking -- the platform is not even three years old. It was $599; it's now $399. The focus on pricing is something we appreciate, but you have to have the conviction and the confidence that you are on the right path for the long term and ultimately you'll get all the consumers you want."

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 8 Jul 2009 16:20

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101 comments

BTFan

In that case, I doubt the PS3 will be able to catch up in terms of sales to the Xbox 360. There's already an 8 million difference (worldwide sales), no price cut in 2009 will definitely increase that number.

8.7.2009 19:52 #1

oneguy

I think that guy's gonna get fired.

8.7.2009 20:04 #2

relaxin

I've been a Sony fanboy since the days of the FM walkman and will still be in the future, but I have yet to get a PS3 and I think I will just skip this one, $400 for a video game box is still just too much to be able to justify, but then again, I'm old and have other things to do with money. Not planning to get an xbox or wii either, I'll just play out this gen on PC, you never know though, if there ends up being a compelling enough of a game, I would always be willing to change my mind.

8.7.2009 20:20 #3

shaffaaf

PS� came a year after the xbox (year and a half in the EU) so being 8 mill behind seems minor

8.7.2009 20:23 #4

themind

8 million is 8 million and it is a huge number.

8.7.2009 23:07 #5

Ankoku

I agree with shaffaaf, 8 million is pretty minor in the long term...what's scary is that microsoft will need to release a 360 v2 or something like that because the system is hardware wise, a step behind the PS3...I don't have a PS3, but I do have a 360 (which by the way I love) and a Wii (which kinda just sits there...probably bound for ebay) but will not buy a PS3 until a solid price cut...I think its coming, and this is all just a way to keep up interest, I would imagine dropping the price $100 would win Sony the console war

9.7.2009 00:21 #6

Morreale

Originally posted by BTFan: In that case, I doubt the PS3 will be able to catch up in terms of sales to the Xbox 360. There's already an 8 million difference (worldwide sales), no price cut in 2009 will definitely increase that number.Sounds like the difference is closing then, wtf.

I believe it used to be 10-12 million difference.

The guy has a point. PS3s are expensive to make, at one point in the beginning it was priced at $599 and Sony was still losing over $200 per console. People have to remember that this is a business, and everything is all about profits. A price cut would sell consoles at a faster rate but with the cost to make the console and get it out there, will the cheaper, better selling console really make them more then what they are earning right now or any money at all?

I still think that when the cheaper slim console arrives and becomes more mainstream then there will hopefully be a price cut for Christmas. Sometime around November sounds good to me...

9.7.2009 01:46 #7

lxhotboy

Originally posted by Ankoku: I agree with shaffaaf, 8 million is pretty minor in the long term...what's scary is that microsoft will need to release a 360 v2 or something like that because the system is hardware wise, a step behind the PS3...I don't have a PS3, but I do have a 360 (which by the way I love) and a Wii (which kinda just sits there...probably bound for ebay) but will not buy a PS3 until a solid price cut...I think its coming, and this is all just a way to keep up interest, I would imagine dropping the price $100 would win Sony the console warAre you so sure that microsoft will have to release a newer console? LOL Crytek just claimed to have peaked the processor in the PS3 with the making of Crysis so dont count your eggs before they are hatched. One has a superior CPU and one a superior GPU so basically the PS3 being more powerful is still an opinion. Peak performance that hardware was intended to perform is not always achieved.

At the same time EA says the Xbox 360 is maxed out but again we will have to wait and see.

9.7.2009 07:25 #8

Interestx

Tales of one console or other being superior are ridiculous, they are both very similar.
There are very slight differences and the claim that Xbox is behind is just silly.
There are no serious tangible signs of gaming differences between the 2.

This is hardly surprising as we now know Microsoft got a good look at PS3 as it was being developed.

Xbox does have one unique, interesting and pretty much unused additional card up its sleeve, DX10/11 thanks to the r500's tessellation abilities.
Whether DX10/11 games really take off and make big use of this ability is another matter.
PS3 simply does not have this due to it's pretty basic and old Nvidia 7800GS GPU.

If Stringer is telling the truth then PS3 is guaranteed to be 3rd in the sales race this time around.
That doesn't bode well for it in the coming years.

Someone was saying recently that by 2015 the PS3 will over-take the Xbox 360, bit too late by then I'd say, but ok if you want to be left a whole gen behind.

9.7.2009 11:17 #9

DXR88

both xbox and ps3 use a PowerPC based processor

The specs on the xenon:

- 165 million transistors

- Three symmetrical cores, each two way SMT-capable and clocked at 3.2 GHz

- SIMD: VMX128 with 2� (128�128 bit) register files for each core.

- 1 MiB L2 cache (lockable by the GPU) running at half-speed (1.6 GHz) with a 256-bit bus

- 51.2 gigabytes per second of L2 memory bandwidth (256 bit � 1600 MHz) 21.6 GB/s Front-Side Bus

- Dot product performance: 9.6 billion per second
115.2 GFLOPS theoretical peak performance
Restricted to In-order code execution

- eFuse 768 bits.

- ROM (and 64 kbytes SRAM) storing Microsoft's Secure Bootloader, and encryption hypervisor

PS3's cell processor

- PowerPC-base Core @ 3.2GHz

- 1 VMX vector unit per core

- 512KB L2 cache

- 7 x SPE @ 3.2GHz

- 7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs

- 7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE

- 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy

- total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS

the only thing the PS3 offers over the box is more choking space, the only time you'll see the full supposed power of the ps3 is with an Newb developer, or its the fastest action game around so fast you need 218 Gflops to play it.

9.7.2009 11:50 #10

samus250

Originally posted by lxhotboy: Are you so sure that microsoft will have to release a newer console? LOL Crytek just claimed to have peaked the processor in the PS3 with the making of Crysis so dont count your eggs before they are hatched. One has a superior CPU and one a superior GPU so basically the PS3 being more powerful is still an opinion. Peak performance that hardware was intended to perform is not always achieved.

At the same time EA says the Xbox 360 is maxed out but again we will have to wait and see.Crytek could have programmed the game a lot more efficiently than they did. They are very good at making games for hardware that still doesn't exist, so I really wouldn't be surprised that Crytek maxed out the PS3's processor or for that matter an Intel Core i7 or AMD Phenom II X4.

Anyways, I really think that the PS3 is a lot more powerful than the Xbox, but who cares? Developers are too lazy, they won't make two completely different versions of a game so that one maxes the Xbox and the other maxes the PS3.

Originally posted by Interestx: Someone was saying recently that by 2015 the PS3 will over-take the Xbox 360, bit too late by then I'd say, but ok if you want to be left a whole gen behind.That is just my thought, if the PS3 wins, it will win in the next generation and when every console is more powerful than the PS3. I think the PS3 is too powerful and too expensive for the current gen, but it will be lagging behind in the next gen.

9.7.2009 12:58 #11

shaffaaf

remember hwo when the PS3 came out and God of war 2 for the PS2 rivaled the gfx of the new PS3 games? im sure itll happen again, the proccessor will get used properly when sony wants it to :)

9.7.2009 13:31 #12

Jemborg

@Morreale- Sony don't just depend on making money on the console. Surely you know they are paid licensing fees for the games played on them. One of the reasons Activision want them to drop their price.

That's what they really make their money on in fact. The reason they would sell their consoles for under cost... supposedly. Anyway, these costs have come down and Sony refuse to budge. Still claiming they have the most powerful console... despite the evidence.

On paper in theory it may seem better but in the real world it just isn't so. Interestx is correct, "There are no serious tangible signs of gaming differences between the 2".

9.7.2009 18:00 #13

1313titan

I have both systems and they are both great in their own way. WE(my family) play burnout paradise on both systems and no difference. I love price drops. if the PS3 drops by $100 great. just my 2cents.

9.7.2009 22:00 #14

lxhotboy

Truth be told Sony isnot going to tell the world they are going to drop the price of the PS3. I am ready for it to happen but really, If they announced they would drop the price with a PS3 that was cheaper and had a bigger HD then a lot of people wouldnot buy the PS3's that are already in stores and still in Sony's warehouse. They need to clear as much of their inventory as possible on the old PS3 before releasing the slim. Some will still want the original models regardless. Microsoft did the same remember? They denied a price cut on the Xbox 360 and then it happened. But not until they were ready to confirm the price to the world.

Its coming. Its coming soon no matter how much Sony denies it. Denying the price cut is called effective marketing.

9.7.2009 23:14 #15

DXR88

Originally posted by lxhotboy: Truth be told Sony isnot going to tell the world they are going to drop the price of the PS3. I am ready for it to happen but really, If they announced they would drop the price with a PS3 that was cheaper and had a bigger HD then a lot of people wouldnot buy the PS3's that are already in stores and still in Sony's warehouse. They need to clear as much of their inventory as possible on the old PS3 before releasing the slim. Some will still want the original models regardless. Microsoft did the same remember? They denied a price cut on the Xbox 360 and then it happened. But not until they were ready to confirm the price to the world.

Its coming. Its coming soon no matter how much Sony denies it. Denying the price cut is called effective marketing.Yep just like they denied the slim PS3, When Sony Denies things it usually means its going to happen.

9.7.2009 23:44 #16

ZippyDSM

the PS3 architecture requires superior coding than the 360 to out pace it the trouble is the 360 can do so much with simplistic coding the whole industry favors the 360 still. Sony bit off more than they can chew making the PS3 hardware so damn complex that the industry can not easily use it.

The Saturn had a hard enough time with coding between the market being tried of the sega brand and sega being anal about getting out help with said coding it was the end for the Saturn, the PS3 is doing alot better and should out pace the 360 in a couple more years simply because the 360 is getting old, if the "next box" is as easy to code for as the 360 the PS3 will be dead in the water......

The hardware makers should damn well know parallel processing is a niche still in the computer industry much less gaming, they would be better off sticking to today's tech that's a bit beefier than most than trying to do something so new no one really wants to do anything with it.....

The PS3 would be rocking if it had a 4 core 3.XGhz+ CPU, 12MB cache(3MB each), on a 256 or 512 bit bus running at a solid non bottle necking bus(1XXX?) give it 512MB or even 1GB of solid DDR5 for video processing and make sure the GPU is not dragging the system down and vice versa, or give it 3GB of ramm that is sahred with teh video make it all a eaqaule porpsision so devs can use what they need, would have been alot easier to shrink this down to onto one board than fck about with someones pet project...I mean the cell tech....seriously what benefits dose it have that is not out done with more standard tech that might consume a nano watt more energy...........

10.7.2009 01:10 #17

DXR88

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: I mean the cell tech....seriously what benefits dose it have that is not out done with more standard tech that might consume a nano watt more energy...........now now thats what we have the 360 mini oven for. i was going to play the saturn is like the ps3 card but you know people jump on that like a Chinese man on rice.

Sony shot themselves in the foot on this one, so the same could be said about the 360. its not about units sold its about $$$ made anyone in the biz knows that.

Sony has to lower the price its either that or they'll be on the top of the Console woos right there with Sega. it wouldn't surprise me if Apple was the next contender for the games market. we lost Sega and got MS we lose Sony we get Apple.

it wouldn't be bad either, if you look at it right apple has had exp with priporitory hardware.

10.7.2009 01:28 #18

DVDBack23

Originally posted by lxhotboy: If they announced they would drop the price with a PS3 that was cheaper and had a bigger HD then a lot of people wouldnot buy the PS3's that are already in stores and still in Sony's warehouse. They need to clear as much of their inventory as possible on the old PS3 before releasing the slim. 100 percent correct. They need to phase out the models sitting in their warehouses (hence the MSG4/KZ2 bundle) before they would ever even consider acknowledging the price drop. Why would a consumer buy the console for $400 now when they could wait 5 weeks and get it for $300? Even impulse buyers will not miss out on a 25 percent price cut if they know it is coming.

10.7.2009 01:49 #19

lxhotboy

Quote:now now thats what we have the 360 mini oven for. i was going to play the saturn is like the ps3 card but you know people jump on that like a Chinese man on rice.

Sony shot themselves in the foot on this one, so the same could be said about the 360. its not about units sold its about $$$ made anyone in the biz knows that. You know you are right. Honestly i dont know for sure about the sega saturn road but i do put it into my equation as well for we dont truely know if they will ever figure out how to code effectively for the PS3. I honestly hope they do but that is something that Sony needs to be working on night and day to get a devkit out to developers that will show the true power,RUMORED, to be capable of the console. Maybe they already have something as good as gold in the works or maybe they dont. Who truely knows.

Then you look at Microsoft who did exactly what you said. They shot themselves in the foot as well. Come on now you have a Billion dollar company who releases a console with a major flaw for gamers who like to put in long hours on a console. Learning is not that hard if you do your homework. Even Sony's original PS had issues with heat. I know of several instances were launch PS were played for long hours and the consoles malfunctioned with lens problems, this still was not as big an issue as the RROD but Sony admitted the problem and fixed the PS that my friend had for free. After that he never had any problems when having his PS on for more than 24 hours while playing. I think it happened around the time resident evil was released on PS. Microsoft really has no excuse for the mistake. Heat in these consoles should be one of the first test that any company checks out especially when they want to use a console to be the center of your media entertainment and know people are going to put long hours on it. What the hell were they thinking? Besides lets get this thing on shelves.

Could you imagine if a car companies ignored the issue of keeping a engine and other parts cool enough to run for long hours at a time. Could you imagine if they said, "Well, you can only drive these things for about 30 miles and then you need to cut them off and let them rest." LMAO Heat is an issue with anything built mechanically or electronic you got to check it out and do the testing before you release it to the consumers. Even the iphone has heat issues. Not saying I recommend leaving a phone in the car in the summer but then again you know its going to happen so plan for it.

10.7.2009 05:05 #20

ZippyDSM

Quote:Originally posted by DXR88:

now now thats what we have the 360 mini oven for. i was going to play the saturn is like the ps3 card but you know people jump on that like a Chinese man on rice.

Sony shot themselves in the foot on this one, so the same could be said about the 360. its not about units sold its about $$$ made anyone in the biz knows that.

Sony has to lower the price its either that or they'll be on the top of the Console woos right there with Sega. it wouldn't surprise me if Apple was the next contender for the games market. we lost Sega and got MS we lose Sony we get Apple.

it wouldn't be bad either, if you look at it right apple has had exp with priporitory hardware.Its like it but there are 3 huge differences, the PS3 is doing well enough outside japan( yes it dose not compare to the PS2 but then what dose.... 2 they are working hard to get the coding knowable and kits to the developers), 3 its getting games made for it, hell its chosen over the PC to dev too.

the only real problem with the PS3 is price, you knock 100-200 off it and it will do as well as the 360 because people want the other console to fill out their library with. Now if it was easy to code for exclusivity could come into play and sony could be driving the industry but alas that's where they shot themselves in the foot, unlike sega that removed theirs with a rocket.

Quote:You know you are right. Honestly i dont know for sure about the sega saturn road but i do put it into my equation as well for we dont truely know if they will ever figure out how to code effectively for the PS3. I honestly hope they do but that is something that Sony needs to be working on night and day to get a devkit out to developers that will show the true power,RUMORED, to be capable of the console. Maybe they already have something as good as gold in the works or maybe they dont. Who truely knows.

Then you look at Microsoft who did exactly what you said. They shot themselves in the foot as well. Come on now you have a Billion dollar company who releases a console with a major flaw for gamers who like to put in long hours on a console. Learning is not that hard if you do your homework. Even Sony's original PS had issues with heat. I know of several instances were launch PS were played for long hours and the consoles malfunctioned with lens problems, this still was not as big an issue as the RROD but Sony admitted the problem and fixed the PS that my friend had for free. After that he never had any problems when having his PS on for more than 24 hours while playing. I think it happened around the time resident evil was released on PS. Microsoft really has no excuse for the mistake. Heat in these consoles should be one of the first test that any company checks out especially when they want to use a console to be the center of your media entertainment and know people are going to put long hours on it. What the hell were they thinking? Besides lets get this thing on shelves.

Could you imagine if a car companies ignored the issue of keeping a engine and other parts cool enough to run for long hours at a time. Could you imagine if they said, "Well, you can only drive these things for about 30 miles and then you need to cut them off and let them rest." LMAO Heat is an issue with anything built mechanically or electronic you got to check it out and do the testing before you release it to the consumers. Even the iphone has heat issues. Not saying I recommend leaving a phone in the car in the summer but then again you know its going to happen so plan for it.
The over heating issue and DRE on the PS2 are 2 or really 3 serrate issues, overheating was due to the layout of the V1-3 revisions , V4+ had better heat dispersion(heat sink was placed.... ABOVE the board instead of below), then you had DREs crop up on their larger 2nd or 3rd lens unit, it came up randomly but was due to cheap manufacturing, the next big DRE issue was from the new smaller laser unit found in the first slim models. Some revisions never had DRE issues least until the unit hit 5+ years of age. Its a hodgepodge of issues that they tried to fix, MS has basically ignored the easy break ovens issues time and time again even the new fix aint much of a fix....

10.7.2009 12:31 #21

varnull

Actually zip.. M$ were very interested in the overheating issue from almost day 1 .. In my time as an xbox site admin I was in communication with a senior member of the M$ console division who was very interested in the liquid cooling mods carried out by our members to prolong the life of the console and to cut it's noise.. Unfortunately it was too expensive on a unit basis to implement.. I guess if it had been viable they would have run with it and the 360 would have been a groundbreaking monster console instead of an rrod mini oven (great description BTW) that breaks all noise records.

Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work.
I would rather you hate me for who I am than love me for what I am not.
�It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state.� - Bruce Schneier

10.7.2009 12:42 #22

Jemborg

Jeez, my X360 has never RRODed (falcon model) and with the NXE playing games off the HDD runs cooler and much quieter. The PS3 isn't free either from breakdown problems that even aren't acknowledged by Sony and if you don't think it's cheaply made you haven't seen the insides of it. So can we please just shut up about it for once?

Judging from what Varnull wrote I gather we're gonna be seeing some pretty sophisticated form of cooling solution in the next console gen. You sure as hell won't be getting full 1080p without it.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

10.7.2009 13:01 #23

varnull

I doubt it.. they will just stick more fans in and let them overheat like they have this gen. They don't care about reliability... they just want the money out of your pocket..

Consoles like pc gaming are seen as a cash cow.. screw as much as possible out of the consumer for the minimum possible investment.

10.7.2009 13:06 #24

Jemborg

It's still gonna involve heat pipes in some manner.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

10.7.2009 13:28 #25

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by varnull: Actually zip.. M$ were very interested in the overheating issue from almost day 1 .. In my time as an xbox site admin I was in communication with a senior member of the M$ console division who was very interested in the liquid cooling mods carried out by our members to prolong the life of the console and to cut it's noise.. Unfortunately it was too expensive on a unit basis to implement.. I guess if it had been viable they would have run with it and the 360 would have been a groundbreaking monster console instead of an rrod mini oven (great description BTW) that breaks all noise records.
Actively being interested in a better cooling method and actually fixing it are 2 separate things hell even their fix is far from a final solution�

Originally posted by Jemborg: Jeez, my X360 has never RRODed (falcon model) and with the NXE playing games off the HD runs cooler and much quieter. The PS3 isn't free either from breakdown problems that even aren't acknowledged by Sony and if you don't think it's cheaply made you haven't seen the insides of it. So can we please just shut up about it for once?

Judging from what Varnull wrote I gather we're gonna be seeing some pretty sophisticated form of cooling solution in the next console gen. You sure as hell won't be getting full 1080p without it.6 n 10 ff the line, that's what the 360 fail rate was, and that is ridiculous no matter who you are, yes by the time it got to the consumer it is 3 to 4 in 10 if you add in the refurbs, now its more like 2 to 3 in ten but still.... its jsut enough to make you stop and think.

The PS3 is more 0.5-1.5 in ten, yes it has problems as all tech gadgets do but some are just better designed than others.

Originally posted by varnull: I doubt it.. they will just stick more fans in and let them overheat like they have this gen. They don't care about reliability... they just want the money out of your pocket..

Consoles like pc gaming are seen as a cash cow.. screw as much as possible out of the consumer for the minimum possible investment.The DC had some form of liquid cooling in it did it not?
But I would have to are a marginal fail rate (1-3 in ten) means they will be pushing more units than ever and only makes you money when the units start turning a profit on each sale but when they do 10$ X 1M is 10M profit......

10.7.2009 13:58 #26

Jemborg

Arg

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

10.7.2009 15:23 #27

varnull

Final Solution.. I like the way you think.. wheres xbox104 when you need him?

10.7.2009 15:28 #28

DXR88

Quote:The DC had some form of liquid cooling in it did it not?
But I would have to are a marginal fail rate (1-3 in ten) means they will be pushing more units than ever and only makes you money when the units start turning a profit on each sale but when they do 10$ X 1M is 10M profit......The first wave Dreamcasts that hit the market had a gel like substance coupled with a heatsink.

the last wave had 2 copper/aluminum heatsink with 2 copper heat pipes running between them one for heat dissipation and the other for cooling. the CPU was mounted with a copper pipe the pipe ran across the case to a fan that was mounted to an aluminum heatsink..

The xbox has heat pipes but are useless because there coiled in the center of the box.

10.7.2009 18:44 #29

shaffaaf

i wouldnt say useless, but since there is no fan directly there on the heatsink to take the heat awayform the fins, its not as effective as it could be.

10.7.2009 18:55 #30

DXR88

Originally posted by shaffaaf: i wouldnt say useless, but since there is no fan directly there on the heatsink to take the heat awayform the fins, its not as effective as it could be.they are useless there centered around inside the box they go from the CPU Heatsink to the GPU Heatsink the only thing this does is increase the heat spread touch the heatsink of the xbox not bad you could still fry an egg on it now touch the heat pipes and if you don't fry your nervous system your lucky.

the basic concept of heat pipes is to move heat to an external vent.

the thing about MS that grates my nerves like sharp chedder is that 50 cents more heat pipe and a rearrangement could drop the Heat at 25 degrees. for 5 dollors more they could also get some decent fans 20CFM just doesn't cut it 34CFM would drop the temps even more 10-15 degrees.

its just pure laziness that they don't fix these issues.

10.7.2009 19:25 #31

Interestx

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: 6 n 10 ff the line, that's what the 360 fail rate wasActually Zippy that was the results from the original original pre-production run on first start-up.

The first Xenon mobo had a fail-rate (as far as we can tell any of this) of about 16%.

This got better with every subsequent new mobo released to the point where failures are now so small a problem that no-one, not even the PS3 fanboy saturday staff, is releasing anecdotal tales of shops returning 30% of what they sold etc etc anymore.

E74 came along but was very rapidly incorporated into the 3yr warranty.

It's pretty obvious that their mobo revisions and warranty have killed this issue.

(Except for those PS3 fans who want to PR to anyone who'll listen & pretend nothing has changed)

10.7.2009 19:47 #32

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by Jemborg: Arg
Oh my godwin.... let me rephrase :P

MS avoided doing anything that would truly fix the problem even now with the lower heat producing chips it still has a fail rate above the industry average....

Quote:Originally posted by ZippyDSM: 6 n 10 ff the line, that's what the 360 fail rate wasActually Zippy that was the results from the original original pre-production run on first start-up.

The first Xenon mobo had a fail-rate (as far as we can tell any of this) of about 16%.

This got better with every subsequent new mobo released to the point where failures are now so small a problem that no-one, not even the PS3 fanboy saturday staff, is releasing anecdotal tales of shops returning 30% of what they sold etc etc anymore.

E74 came along but was very rapidly incorporated into the 3yr warranty.

It's pretty obvious that their mobo revisions and warranty have killed this issue.

(Except for those PS3 fans who want to PR to anyone who'll listen & pretend nothing has changed)
Nice try..... from the research I did it was 60% fail rate on the line for the first couple of years, why do you think MS lost billions on the 360??.... because the damn thing was poorly designed heat wise and they simply refused to deal with it in any swift or functional way, they put off any real fix and shoe horned in patches they hoped would fix the issue until the new chips rolled out into production.

Sorry the easy break oven will forever be the laughing stock of the game industry(like I am of grammar :P) as far as manufacturing values/ fail rates are concerned.

You can blame $ony for being as greedy and inept as M$ but at least most of their hardware has yet to hit 25% fail rate from off the store shelf.

Heres one of my sources
http://games.venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/...e-console-woes/

10.7.2009 21:54 #33

Mysttic

To everyone's comment:

What does all this tech specs have to do with the main article's header? *NOTHING* That is what. You'd think people could comment on how arrogant Stringer is thinking a price cut isn't needed, let alone thinking his system can last as long as PS2 has so far. Even if it does, he claims the consumers and retailers *not to mention business partners* are not thinking outside the box for the "long term" yet the only thing Stringer seems to argue competing against is his own PS2 console, like wtf? It's no longer a battle between him and MS 360. It's a battle between him and proving he can make the console last as long as PS2, and that to me is not thinking with the right box, let alone outside of one.

The question I want to know is regardless of if it can or can not, is he willing to stake his job on the line if this so called strategy fails?

11.7.2009 01:12 #34

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by Mysttic: To everyone's comment:

What does all this tech specs have to do with the main article's header? *NOTHING* That is what. You'd think people could comment on how arrogant Stringer is thinking a price cut isn't needed, let alone thinking his system can last as long as PS2 has so far. Even if it does, he claims the consumers and retailers *not to mention business partners* are not thinking outside the box for the "long term" yet the only thing Stringer seems to argue competing against is his own PS2 console, like wtf? It's no longer a battle between him and MS 360. It's a battle between him and proving he can make the console last as long as PS2, and that to me is not thinking with the right box, let alone outside of one.

The question I want to know is regardless of if it can or can not, is he willing to stake his job on the line if this so called strategy fails?Frankly it has everything to do with it, as they were arrogant enough to launch a 800$ console and think people would just bend over and buy 2 of them.

If they spent more time on the tech and less time licking the polyps beyond each others anus's they would have made a console that would not be lagging behind nor having issues with software development or price.

11.7.2009 02:25 #35

Jemborg

Originally posted by Zippy: Originally posted by Jemborg: Arg
Oh my godwin.... let me rephrase...Double Aarg!

+1 Mysttic

Originally posted by Interestx: (Except for those PS3 fans who want to PR to anyone who'll listen & pretend nothing has changed)LOL esp @ "...not even the PS3 fanboy saturday staff..."

11.7.2009 03:31 #36

chris4160

Originally posted by shaffaaf: PS� came a year after the xbox (year and a half in the EU) so being 8 mill behind seems minorSeeing though ps3 came out a year after the xbox, they should be swamping the 360 sales, a year's worth of designing is massive, ps3 fanboys use the release dates to cover up the loses (don't forget they are coming last).

Originally posted by Jemborg: Judging from what Varnull wrote I gather we're gonna be seeing some pretty sophisticated form of cooling solution in the next console gen. You sure as hell won't be getting full 1080p without it.Next gen is estimated to be 2015, 1080p then will be the 480p of today (or worse).

Originally posted by varnull: I doubt it.. they will just stick more fans in and let them overheat like they have this gen. They don't care about reliability... they just want the money out of your pocket..Originally posted by lxhotboy: At the same time EA says the Xbox 360 is maxed out but again we will have to wait and see.
MS is continuously working to improve the xbox 360, since release they have implemented 3 different motherboards and optical disk drives, all of which improve on its predecessor... rrod is practically extinct in the new models.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: 6 n 10 ff the line, that's what the 360 fail rate was, and that is ridiculous no matter who you are, yes by the time it got to the consumer it is 3 to 4 in 10 if you add in the refurbs, now its more like 2 to 3 in ten but still.... its jsut enough to make you stop and think.Not true at all. Release date console had 30% failure. Falcon 10%. Jasper below 10%

Originally posted by Interestx: (Except for those PS3 fans who want to PR to anyone who'll listen & pretend nothing has changed)100% correct.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Nice try..... from the research I did it was 60% fail rate on the line for the first couple of years, why do you think MS lost billions on the 360??....lol, that was your response? You just strengthened Interestx comment, PS3 magazines/e-zines/websites isn't a good place to get information about xbox 360. Ms lost billions on the 360 because they fixed their work releasing the 3 year warranty.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Sorry the easy break oven will forever be the laughing stock of the game industry(like I am of grammar :P) as far as manufacturing values/ fail rates are concernedSorry ps3 is being beaten in sales by "the easy break oven".

^^^About the only thing the ps3 is good for.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: You can blame $ony for being as greedy and inept as M$ but at least most of their hardware has yet to hit 25% fail rate from off the store shelf.MS hasn't had 25% failure rates since 2006, 3 years too late with that comment.

Originally posted by Mysttic: What does all this tech specs have to do with the main article's header? *NOTHING* That is what. You'd think people could comment on how arrogant Stringer is thinking a price cut isn't needed, let alone thinking his system can last as long as PS2 has so far. Even if it does, he claims the consumers and retailers *not to mention business partners* are not thinking outside the box for the "long term" yet the only thing Stringer seems to argue competing against is his own PS2 console, like wtf? It's no longer a battle between him and MS 360. It's a battle between him and proving he can make the console last as long as PS2, and that to me is not thinking with the right box, let alone outside of oneWell, as mentioned before next gen is estimated to be 2015, all consoles should out live the ps2.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: If they spent more time on the tech and less time licking the polyps beyond each others anus's they would have made a console that would not be lagging behind nor having issues with software development or price.My thoughts exactly.

11.7.2009 04:05 #37

shaffaaf

a handfull, hell even less than that rigth now, of games on the nex gen consoles are at 1080p, most are 720p or 640 or 600 iicr.

next gen will have 1080p games i thinkf, with a handfull at 1440p.

11.7.2009 05:59 #38

chris4160

Originally posted by shaffaaf: a handfull, hell even less than that rigth now, of games on the nex gen consoles are at 1080p, most are 720p or 640 or 600 iicr.

next gen will have 1080p games i thinkf, with a handfull at 1440p.Next gen is estimated to be 6 years away. There is a lot of technology that will be developed in 6 years, think of all the things we didn't have in 2003 that we have now... next gen will be better than 1080p.

11.7.2009 06:42 #39

lxhotboy

Quote:Originally posted by Mysttic: To everyone's comment:

What does all this tech specs have to do with the main article's header? *NOTHING* That is what. You'd think people could comment on how arrogant Stringer is thinking a price cut isn't needed, let alone thinking his system can last as long as PS2 has so far. Even if it does, he claims the consumers and retailers *not to mention business partners* are not thinking outside the box for the "long term" yet the only thing Stringer seems to argue competing against is his own PS2 console, like wtf? It's no longer a battle between him and MS 360. It's a battle between him and proving he can make the console last as long as PS2, and that to me is not thinking with the right box, let alone outside of one.

The question I want to know is regardless of if it can or can not, is he willing to stake his job on the line if this so called strategy fails?Frankly it has everything to do with it, as they were arrogant enough to launch a 800$ console and think people would just bend over and buy 2 of them.

If they spent more time on the tech and less time licking the polyps beyond each others anus's they would have made a console that would not be lagging behind nor having issues with software development or price.

Zippy.. Zippy..Zip my man. LMAO
That is one of the realest post i have ever read. I thought the price of the xbox360 was high initially then PS3 dropped and i was like, "Are you serious?" Sony really had this generation locked up already. Easy programming, and a machine that would have launched at no more than $399, Where would Sony be??? Well PS2 dominated the market like no other videogaming console has in history so Sony had the fanbase eating out of their hands already. Regardless what anyone says about the PS3 being worth the launch day price, its only opinion b/c as many loyal fans and supporters that PS2 produced a years head start by the xbox 360 should have been easily walked down and surpassed.

Their is no excuse for this type of arrogance from Sony and they have no excuse for being 8 million consoles behind right now. That is one thing some brag about. That sony is only 8 million behind when it shows exactly where they went wrong when they should be a few million ahead right now.

11.7.2009 09:23 #40

lxhotboy

Quote:Quote:Originally posted by Mysttic: To everyone's comment:

What does all this tech specs have to do with the main article's header? *NOTHING* That is what. You'd think people could comment on how arrogant Stringer is thinking a price cut isn't needed, let alone thinking his system can last as long as PS2 has so far. Even if it does, he claims the consumers and retailers *not to mention business partners* are not thinking outside the box for the "long term" yet the only thing Stringer seems to argue competing against is his own PS2 console, like wtf? It's no longer a battle between him and MS 360. It's a battle between him and proving he can make the console last as long as PS2, and that to me is not thinking with the right box, let alone outside of one.

The question I want to know is regardless of if it can or can not, is he willing to stake his job on the line if this so called strategy fails?Frankly it has everything to do with it, as they were arrogant enough to launch a 800$ console and think people would just bend over and buy 2 of them.

If they spent more time on the tech and less time licking the polyps beyond each others anus's they would have made a console that would not be lagging behind nor having issues with software development or price.Zippy.. Zippy..Zip my man. LMAO
That is one of the realest post i have ever read. I thought the price of the xbox360 was high initially then PS3 dropped and i was like, "Are you serious?" Sony really had this generation locked up already. Easy programming, and a machine that would have launched at no more than $399, Where would Sony be??? Well PS2 dominated the market like no other videogaming console has in history so Sony had the fanbase eating out of their hands already. Regardless what anyone says about the PS3 being worth the launch day price, its only opinion b/c as many loyal fans and supporters that PS2 produced a years head start by the xbox 360 should have been easily walked down and surpassed.

Their is no excuse for this type of arrogance from Sony and they have no excuse for being 8 million consoles behind right now. That is one thing some brag about. That sony is only 8 million behind when it shows exactly where they went wrong when they should be a few million ahead right now.I myself about 10 of my friends had PS2 on only 1 had an xbox and a ps2. Now all of us, PS2 supporters who never dreamed of buying an xbox360, own a xbox 360 except for 2 out of that 10. Honestly i dont think it had much to do with the recession either. If the console had launched for $399 i can honestly say i wouldnot have tried an xbox360 and i am sure many others loyal ps2 gamers would have been eyeing the new Sony console as well. One thing for sure. I bet Sony willnot release the PS4 for $600. I think they have learned a valuable lesson. I hope microsoft has as well trying to combine a videogaming console and a microwave. Hell if i get hungry while playing games, I will just order a pizza. Someone please tell Microsoft that they should have just opened up their own chain of restuarants if they wanted to make some money in the food business.

11.7.2009 09:31 #41

Mysttic

With the way Stringer talks, it doesn't seem he has learned any lesson; and with the marketing now of the PSP Go, what a waist of time on that piece of garbage.

For people wanting to bring tech specs into this: I don't think it fighting over who has the better system relates to this article. I do think however specs on the PS3 do; and if Stringer had not been greedy, but instead more patient, he could have waited until the making this console was cheaper and components were more easily on the market to get all while living off the glory of PS2 for another year or two. Then release the PS3 for a more affordable rate; he wouldn't have loss so much profit and even if the other console(s) has a better lead, the momentum would have gained back at the idea of a new Sony system rather than forcing everyone into a console war.

So due to their lack of foresight they claim to have at Sony: they are losing not only in the console wars but the hand-held as well.

Quote:I myself about 10 of my friends had PS2 on only 1 had an xbox and a ps2. Now all of us, PS2 supporters who never dreamed of buying an xbox360, own a xbox 360 except for 2 out of that 10.And honestly that is how I was as well, I had PSX and PS2 on launch; and not being a fan of xbox due to lack of original titles that were already *most of the time* pre-launched on PS2, there was no point in me having one. So I thought heh, PS3 is likely the one I will get, until a) Saw launch prince on both systems b) saw that 3rd party titles were going over to 360 first and maybe PS3. Something definately went wrong over at Sony head quarters to let a major factor of sales go like that; example PS2 had SquareEnix so tightly wrapped in small condom wrap they were thought to never go anywhere, now what was supposed to be an exclusive title similar to FF VII and X were for the early gen consoles, now has made XIII to 360 as well.

That should have been the biggest wake up call right there. When SquareEnix leaves, not to mention how many other software developers decided not to have exclusive titles for PS3? Come on..... You did something wrong, suck it up and tell us what you plan to do about it. Because if your main strategy is seriously just "waiting" until 2015, you will lose and lose hard.

11.7.2009 11:49 #42

ZippyDSM

lxhotboy

Pretty much because they refused to see the damage the high price was doing they are the ones that lowered the vulvae of their brand and made their competitors rich.

Both indeugled to much on their own pew and are paying because of it...

Quote:Mysttic

With the way Stringer talks, it doesn't seem he has learned any lesson; and with the marketing now of the PSP Go, what a waist of time on that piece of garbage.

For people wanting to bring tech specs into this: I don't think it fighting over who has the better system relates to this article. I do think however specs on the PS3 do; and if Stringer had not been greedy, but instead more patient, he could have waited until the making this console was cheaper and components were more easily on the market to get all while living off the glory of PS2 for another year or two. Then release the PS3 for a more affordable rate; he wouldn't have loss so much profit and even if the other console(s) has a better lead, the momentum would have gained back at the idea of a new Sony system rather than forcing everyone into a console war.

So due to their lack of foresight they claim to have at Sony: they are losing not only in the console wars but the hand-held as well.
If they are arguing whos better that's a inane and trite argument/conversation if you however argue that because of this this is not so well done which leads to games not being their best on a system than that argument has merit because its more fatcaul than subjective.

If sony took 2 or 3 B in debt to saturate the market they would be making all that money back by now because they would have sold about twice as many units at a 300-400$ price point.

Quote:And honestly that is how I was as well, I had PSX and PS2 on launch; and not being a fan of xbox due to lack of original titles that were already *most of the time* pre-launched on PS2, there was no point in me having one. So I thought heh, PS3 is likely the one I will get, until a) Saw launch prince on both systems b) saw that 3rd party titles were going over to 360 first and maybe PS3. Something definately went wrong over at Sony head quarters to let a major factor of sales go like that; example PS2 had SquareEnix so tightly wrapped in small condom wrap they were thought to never go anywhere, now what was supposed to be an exclusive title similar to FF VII and X were for the early gen consoles, now has made XIII to 360 as well.

That should have been the biggest wake up call right there. When SquareEnix leaves, not to mention how many other software developers decided not to have exclusive titles for PS3? Come on..... You did something wrong, suck it up and tell us what you plan to do about it. Because if your main strategy is seriously just "waiting" until 2015, you will lose and lose hard.
I truly believe its due to cost of development and nothing else, when games cost as much as film (10-100 million)to be developed you have to spam out sells in order to make that money back in enough time to sustain business.

Even if the PS3 was on top those 20 million(if the PS3 was on top) 360 units would simply be to alluring and profitable to ignore.

In the pre 7th console generation era's you did not need to to sell to as many units as possible to turn a profit now and in the coming days you just have to to get by even if you are making a big profit that's how warped corporate mentality is, it dose not matter if it makes a profit it can and should make more....

11.7.2009 14:07 #43

Interestx

Zippy, more respectable sources gave an overall 16% number, 60% was mentioned but it was 60% of the 16% that failed -

Quote:A new report claims the truth is somewhere in the middle. SquareTrade deals in selling warranties for electronics, and has amassed their over 1000 warranty purchases to come up with some interesting data. The findings were a 16.4% failure rate of Xbox 360 systems, versus a roughly 3% rate for the Sony PlayStation 3 or the Nintendo Wii with sample sizes in the high hundreds.
The well-known "Red Ring of Death" error accounted for about 60% of those hardware failures, and thus most system-breaking problems are covered by Microsoft's extended warranty plan. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259

The truth is that the 60% number comes from Dean Takahashi's book (actually 68%) and it comes from a comment about how Microsoft pressed on, pushing the original console SKU to production, even when they saw the high fail-rate of the initial production batches.

However it is simply not true to move fromn this to claim that that 60%+ number remained unchanged when the Xenon SKU went on sale.

11.7.2009 14:29 #44

ZippyDSM

13.7.2009 03:54 #54

lxhotboy

Originally posted by pitmanfox: to be frank, i do not care, cause i do not have PS3 or XBOXThen be a silent frank.

13.7.2009 07:25 #55

shaffaaf

why does everyone feel the need to bash a console. cant everyone jsut be happy with what they have?

13.7.2009 09:01 #56

xblade132

Originally posted by shaffaaf: why does everyone feel the need to bash a console. cant everyone jsut be happy with what they have?No because idiots like to argue about which console is better hence the classic name for all of this, "The Console War" or the more generic term, "Fanboy".

Play whichever console you want and enjoy it. Don't boast about which console is better because nobody cares. I know I don't. I have a PS3 and a PSP and I'm more than satisfied with it.

13.7.2009 10:09 #57

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Originally posted by DXR88: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Originally posted by DXR88: Quote:How bad is it, I hear its a forgettable lulz fest?RF:Gorilla? its short but the destructible environments are Spectacular, then again all the RF series where short. the AI is about as Dumb as Bricks but there Sheer numbers are Stupendously impossible to beat.So basically its like 2 with more destructible environments and dumber AI.... RF1 was awesome RF2...dumb..... 3...even dumber >>bout sums it up its a good play but its replay value is 0%

if at all im more interested in the technology behind the Destructables than the game itself.
I hope you did not pay money for it, disposable games like that are a dime a dozen >>Im not stupid, i play before i buy always. wither it be renting or....Borrowing from a persons...(not obvious right).

its worth a play if you like blowing stuff up. helps if ya want to level a duplex or some apartments

13.7.2009 16:32 #66

chris4160

Originally posted by shaffaaf: why does everyone feel the need to bash a console. cant everyone jsut be happy with what they have?I know, I've got all three and I'm happy, I'm just defending the xbox 360 from the ridiculous "60%" failure rate remark.

Originally posted by HO8: the only person i see starting a flame war here is chris, zippy puts in valid points, and links while chris comes in and puts a picture of a panda bear riding a go cart and a PS3 oven, and saying thats the only thing the ps3 is good for. He Then goes on to say that the 360 is the best console...You can give it but you can't take it. Zippy was calling the xbox 360 an "easy brake oven" a long time before i posted that pic, i did not start anything.

How is that any different to what I posted???

The panda was used in context, it makes sense if you read the quote. BTW it was a grill, not an oven.

Originally posted by HO8: the only person i see starting a flame war here is chrisThere was no "flame" war, nobody was calling each other "fags", you just made that up, your post is the most off topic one in here.

Originally posted by HO8: zippy puts in valid points, and links
Sorry I do not have enough time to scour the internet to find links to prove my point to narrow minded "fanboys" (that article in the link was written by the author of two xbox 360 "uncloaking" books, he is more than likely just trying to sell his book)

Originally posted by HO8: He Then goes on to say that the 360 is the best console...Out of context, again. I said the xbox 360 is the best console in respects of:
Games - xbox has a lot more games than ps3, tell me how that is wrong.
Online gaming - I'm sorry, but PSN cannot compete with xbox live, the members prove that.
Warranty - Xbox 360 has a 3 year warranty, correct?

Originally posted by ZippyDSM: however would not admit the fact the 360 has had an atrocious fail rate record.Well, I admitted "Release date console had 30% failure. Falcon 10%. Jasper below 10%". Considering you said 25% is well above the industry standard, I would call 30% atrocious (only in release date consoles).

Btw what the *bleep* does "Wow...obvious troll is obvious ... 360 fanboy inddeed....." mean, I am no "troll", I am no 13 yo who spends his life in a darkened room watching old reruns of seinfeild (best show ever btw). Yes, i may be a 360 fanboy, but that's only come from my judging of the 3 consoles, and I decided 360, you can't change personal opinions.

14.7.2009 06:12 #67

Oner

So let me get this straight. Person A gives links, proof, and valid documentation and is "wrong" but Person B who gives ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to support their "facts" is "right" and is supposed to somehow be taken seriously?...That sure isn't the way I see it, and to top it all off what I don't get is how you have the time to post 6 replies and track this thread over the course of 3 days but yet you

Quote:do not have enough time to scour the internet to find links to prove my point to narrow minded "fanboys"So explain to me how is anyone supposed to take you seriously with such contradiction? Because it sure as hell doesn't make any sense...

Edit: Oh forgot to add that Zippy, Jemborg, DXR88 & Varnull (plus a couple others) have been here for quite some time and DO know what they are talking about (quite well if you ask just about ANYONE here on aD) and should be taken pretty seriously because they actually give supporting PROOF with their comments to uphold their views & points.

Give me proof over conjecture any day, any time.

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14.7.2009 08:41 #68

ZippyDSM

Quote:So let me get this straight. Person A gives links, proof, and valid documentation and is "wrong" but Person B who gives ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to support their "facts" is "right" and is supposed to somehow be taken seriously?...That sure isn't the way I see it, and to top it all off what I don't get is how you have the time to post 6 replies and track this thread over the course of 3 days but yet you

Quote:do not have enough time to scour the internet to find links to prove my point to narrow minded "fanboys"So explain to me how is anyone supposed to take you seriously with such contradiction? Because it sure as hell doesn't make any sense...

Edit: Oh forgot to add that Zippy, Jemborg, DXR88 & Varnull (plus a couple others) have been here for quite some time and DO know what they are talking about (quite well if you ask just about ANYONE here on aD) and should be taken pretty seriously because they actually give supporting PROOF with their comments to uphold their views & points.

Give me proof over conjecture any day, any time.
I try and keep my rants balanced even if most lean one way or the other.

The only links I really don't have about the 360 would be its current heat issues, but frankly from sites that tear it down and show you what its made of I am convinced that they have done little to deal with the heat problem other than put new chips it in and change around the heatsink some for no real good reason.

I mean come on like DX88 said if they put 5$ or 8$ more into it with a fan the damn thing would never fail in anything but 90+ degree weather!!

Have you heard any interesting rumors about the PS3 with heat or disc unit issues? Seems to be more disc unit failures than heating issues but I dunno rumors need alot of something factual to back them up and I can take note of are 50-120$ lens units for the PS3 poping up in greater numbers by the year. If anything sony is known to cut corners on lens unit, it would not be to off the wall to think the new ones have some issues, and frankly when you build things for maxim savings you will have random occurrences of parts that just wont hold up in real world conditions.

14.7.2009 10:49 #69

Oner

I would have to say that MS & Sony both have learned from past/current mistakes (Sony last gen with DRE's applied to better this gen and MS this gen with RLOD, E74 & DRE for their next gen).

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14.7.2009 11:45 #70

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by Oner: I would have to say that MS & Sony both have learned from past/current mistakes (Sony last gen with DRE's applied to better this gen and MS this gen with RLOD, E74 & DRE for their next gen).
Well frankly the PS3 has not been really tested then again it took the 360 almsot 3 years to really grate on the nerves of the public, prehaps what I am seeing with the PS3 parts and lens unit is normal failed units that are "parted" for P&R and a glut of used consoles no one can sell whole. Still had 2 friends that the BR portion of the lens unit stopped working and seen dozens of said units on ebay. It makes you wonder but 5% of millions are thousands and thousands of units and they will end up in some shape or form as parts for the masses.

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".

14.7.2009 11:53 #71

varnull

And I guess Zip that there is the crux of it. I see a large number of first release rrod 360's still circulating from day 1 going round and round in circles with people attempting to fix them.. giving up and selling them on.. just about every "I can fix that there are guides2 n00b then complains about buying a rrod 360 without stating it's manufacture date or version.. and more importantly what state it was in when they bought it.. I know one idiot who bought the same one twice 4 months apart.. it had a different (though still stripped for anything worthwhile) dvd drive and somebody had changed the fans and the gpu heatsink arrangement for a later version...

The failure rate is very likely off the sheaf the normal for consumer electronics.. about 0.6% .. a little high but well within the bounds of a sustainable percentage. Any manufacturer who breaks the 2% margin does a redesign and general recall. Don't forget.. how the end user installs and uses the product has a far greater effect on it's lifespan than any inherent latent manufacturing defect.
I remember back before the PS3 was released commenting how I thought that the blu drive would be the weak link seeing as failure to get it working in it's "built down to a price" clothes was what was reported to be the cause of the 12 month delay in going to market... seems I have been proved right by time.

Odd how the wii doesn't have anything like the visible apparent fail rate of either of the others.. maybe that's because it's cheap.. or just maybe it's because they don't break except by user tampering.

I don't have any of this gen consoles.. really strange how I have 3 ps1's all working splendidly and used on a weekly basis... yet now these high value systems seem built like cheap far east rubbish (made in Hong Kong ring any bells?) .. guess we are now in the world of anything under $600 being seen as use till broken then throw away and buy another.. rather like phones or toasters or kettles..

14.7.2009 12:29 #72

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by varnull: And I guess Zip that there is the crux of it. I see a large number of first release rrod 360's still circulating from day 1 going round and round in circles with people attempting to fix them.. giving up and selling them on.. just about every "I can fix that there are guides2 n00b then complains about buying a rrod 360 without stating it's manufacture date or version.. and more importantly what state it was in when they bought it.. I know one idiot who bought the same one twice 4 months apart.. it had a different (though still stripped for anything worthwhile) dvd drive and somebody had changed the fans and the gpu heatsink arrangement for a later version...

I'd jump in and try my hand at restoring a 360 but the main problem with that is the chips themselves and that means alot of bad boards and frankly I suck at board repair and diagnosis, I prefer just putting it together in whole parts I don;t have to fuss with. But the 360 has had to easily damaged chips and that's just kept me away from it even when I had it for a short while.

I was thinking about getting a chiped unit but 500$ for an easy break oven .... I just dunno I have put it off, the PS3 is the same I have put it off since I can't chip it and get my monies worth out of it.

The WII tho I have that slotted to get after a laptop and a 500$ futon and crap..mabye next year I'll tag one with one of those read any media drives. :X

Quote:The failure rate is very likely off the sheaf the normal for consumer electronics.. about 0.6% .. a little high but well within the bounds of a sustainable percentage. Any manufacturer who breaks the 2% margin does a redesign and general recall. Don't forget.. how the end user installs and uses the product has a far greater effect on it's lifespan than any inherent latent manufacturing defect.
I remember back before the PS3 was released commenting how I thought that the blu drive would be the weak link seeing as failure to get it working in it's "built down to a price" clothes was what was reported to be the cause of the 12 month delay in going to market... seems I have been proved right by time.

I thought the industry standard was about 5% ..wait..klet me ramp up the gears in my head 5%=0.5 *brain explodes*
I think if you add up all the different fail rate values it will come to about 5% for everything, I could be talking out my ass or read it somewhere it hard to say. I guess it really depends on the company some don't have the service to handle fail rates so they keep them as low as possible.
Quote:
Odd how the wii doesn't have anything like the visible apparent fail rate of either of the others.. maybe that's because it's cheap.. or just maybe it's because they don't break except by user tampering.
I have noticed some over heating issues but frankly nothing like the 360s or PS3, I think it helps the WII that it dose not paly DVD videos.
Quote:
I don't have any of this gen consoles.. really strange how I have 3 ps1's all working splendidly and used on a weekly basis... yet now these high value systems seem built like cheap far east rubbish (made in Hong Kong ring any bells?) .. guess we are now in the world of anything under $600 being seen as use till broken then throw away and buy another.. rather like phones or toasters or kettles..
I have tried to get back into gaming at a regular pace but price V cost I am simply not OCD enough anymore to overlook the fact I am spending money on causal mass marketed crap, which takes up 90% of media including games, one of my gripes about modern gaming the only hardcore thing about it is consumerism, IE the act of zombies out for brains...er brands and franchises....

Frankly the mass market mass production thing has been in full swing for a decade or more I have seen 1000+ crap made my brand names with good reputations..... spam might improve ones quality of life but its still spam....

The only thing I can rag on the WII(oh god the imaginary!! lulz) is the precision of the motion sensing using line of sight IR and other limited or unpolished tech in it...cheap cheap cheap CHEAP! the rest of the unit is not so bad.... the others need to take note that you don't HAVE to take huge losses on hardware...and frankly the console war model has seen better days I hope its put in the ground in the next generation or 2......

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".

14.7.2009 12:53 #73

varnull

lets see.. i may have to host this myself...

and for the fanboi's (see what I did there?)

14.7.2009 13:01 #74

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by varnull: lets see.. i may have to host this myself...

and for the fanboi's (see what I did there?)

like dis?
[img]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/z...londe.jpg[/img]

Its a classic!

And ya the PS3 grill is the greatest console parody ever, not so much for heat but for vertisity!!

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".

14.7.2009 13:08 #75

DXR88

Quote:I mean come on like DX88 said if they put 5$ or 8$ more into it with a fan the damn thing would never fail in anything but 90+ degree weather!! to MS Yes.

if the consumer wanted to do it himself your looking 39.99 could be more could be less.

components you would need

A +/- powered fan 20cfm or higher
A low power soldering Iron + lead solder(silver bead will work as well)
/you could stop here
Some copper heat pipes about 3 feet in length
a low profile heat sink like those used on NorthBridge Chipsets.
a drill or a hole puncher

and one unit of crappy diagram.

14.7.2009 13:34 #76

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by DXR88: Quote:I mean come on like DX88 said if they put 5$ or 8$ more into it with a fan the damn thing would never fail in anything but 90+ degree weather!! to MS Yes.

if the consumer wanted to do it himself your looking 39.99 could be more could be less.

components you would need

A +/- powered fan 20cfm or higher
A low power soldering Iron + lead solder(silver bead will work as well)
/you could stop here
Some copper heat pipes about 3 feet in length
a low profile heat sink like those used on NorthBridge Chipsets.
a drill or a hole puncher

and one unit of crappy diagram.

And the trouble with that is voiding the warranty if I get a 360 another 60$ is going into a nice long extended warranty for it because I fear no matter what one dose it will still bake itself it its own oven.

question has anyone made a premodded fan case for the 360?

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".

14.7.2009 13:38 #77

varnull

dammit.. just looked at the clock.. 19.39 .. better slick down my hair and stick my Charlie Chaplin tash on.. Time to invade Poland XD

If you guys check out llammas forums about 2 1/2 years ago you will see a very successful liquid cooling mod.. hunt out tim-x-irish on this site.. I believe he made site admin there a while ago. Hasn't been on im for an age.. but I do have an email.. we are still friends.. as is TheWulff.. can always get those guys there through me XD

19.42.. winter in Russia.. now why exactly did we decide to go East???

yeah.. being strange.. it's my 19tyh wedding anniversary in 2 days.. on the 21st anniversary of the launch of Apollo 11 .. 40 years this year.

good luck Mr Gorsky XD

14.7.2009 14:37 #78

chris4160

Originally posted by Oner: So let me get this straight. Person A gives links, proof, and valid documentation and is "wrong" but Person B who gives ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to support their "facts" is "right" and is supposed to somehow be taken seriously?...That sure isn't the way I see it, and to top it all off what I don't get is how you have the time to post 6 replies and track this thread over the course of 3 days but yet you

Quote:do not have enough time to scour the internet to find links to prove my point to narrow minded "fanboys"So explain to me how is anyone supposed to take you seriously with such contradiction? Because it sure as hell doesn't make any sense...

Edit: Oh forgot to add that Zippy, Jemborg, DXR88 & Varnull (plus a couple others) have been here for quite some time and DO know what they are talking about (quite well if you ask just about ANYONE here on aD) and should be taken pretty seriously because they actually give supporting PROOF with their comments to uphold their views & points.

Give me proof over conjecture any day, any time.When did I ever say Zippy was wrong when he wasn't??? I only said he was wrong about the 60% failure rate (which is wrong). Btw Oner, I do not care if you don't take me seriously, I really don't, get over yourself.

I have time to do things I enjoy doing, but proving points to ps3 "fanboys" is not one of them.

Edit: Oh I forgot to add I've been here for quite some time and DO know what I'm talking about (quite well if you ask ANYONE on xbox 360 general discussion). I've modified/fixed over 20 xbox 360's, I know what I'm talking about.

15.7.2009 06:16 #79

Oner

Once again, you have the time to talk BS in reply but not the time to actually PROVE your "facts"...The more you talk, the more you solidify my point.

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

15.7.2009 08:26 #80

shaffaaf

classic comedy here :)

15.7.2009 09:19 #81

Oner

I just call it how I see it ;)

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

15.7.2009 09:32 #82

shaffaaf

the best comedy is based on the truth xD

15.7.2009 09:45 #83

H08

oner you shouldve just replied with this pic

lol. jk

PS3 Trophies

15.7.2009 15:18 #84

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by H08: oner you shouldve just replied with this pic

lol. jkIt also makes more sense than zippy half the time >>

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".

15.7.2009 15:37 #85

Oner

What's really funny is I actually agree...damned Zippy speak is worse than 1337 sPeAk at times! ;)

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Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

15.7.2009 17:05 #86

shaffaaf

do not ask creaky how i speak, hed go on about it for days! i even got perma banned for it lol

15.7.2009 21:38 #87

djs18

Incoherent irrelevant spam removed

15.7.2009 22:20 #88

chris4160

Originally posted by Oner: Once again, you have the time to talk BS in reply but not the time to actually PROVE your "facts"...The more you talk, the more you solidify my point.Lol, really, did you even read what you wrote before you posted? You do not have the right to say what I have to do with my time. You are the one talking "BS". I proved your "point" wrong, you need to have a point before you can "solidify" it. I do not have to prove myself to you.

@ Zippy, you can get talismoon whisper max fans for $30 that require no soldering and do not void your warranty. They're really easy to install aswell.

16.7.2009 02:11 #89

Oner

I think my point has been very well PROVEN here. But believe what you will, I already know this is a waste of time since you have never provided proof with your "points".

Originally posted by chris4160: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Originally posted by chris4160: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Originally posted by chris4160: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Originally posted by chris4160: Originally posted by Oner: I think my point has been very well PROVEN here. But believe what you will, I already know this is a waste of time since you have never provided proof with your "points".Wtf is your point??? You keep saying it has been "proven", it has not! Zippy posted one link to an article written by a biest author trying to sell books (i will be sure to post equally irrelevant links once I get home).And if he is baised where is the proof, via links he is not?He's the author of exposing the 360 book, he's just creating more hype/interest around the subject.*sigh*

Quote:And if he is so biased where is the proof, links?

At least try and defend your argument with some researched evidence to place some validity in it.

Here are a few more 30% rate claims
http://gizmodo.com/271487/xbox-360-failure-rate-30-says-retailers
(30%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems
(higher than 15%)
http://www.marketingvox.com/in-australia...tailers-030879/
(30%)
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Home/D3Q7G8S2
(30%)

You can not ignore MS's sloppiness, its just too widely reported.Sigh.

Originally posted by chris4160: i will be sure to post equally irrelevant links once i get homeIt's a bit hard to memorise an entire url. Btw, I said the xbox 360 had a 30% failure rate at release, you are just contradicting you 60% failure rate remark.
*yawns* thats wut R bookmarks iz for.

The 60% remark is based on the PRODUCTION LINE issues combined with off the self issues.

Unless they had a full 60% fail rate(gaaa been up all night I'll see if I can run down where in my arse that number came from,most likely its a combination of stuff) on the line where then they patched them got them working and then sold them....which could explain alot of things really..............

*yawns* I think you don't disagree with the 30%(all time high) fail rate number as much as the slightly ridiculous 60% right?
I do not claim that number to be off the self I do claim it as either whole or part of production and or off the shelf issues.

Production generally weeds out bad units the 360 had a high rate of them now I'll have to see if I can find what lead me to the 60% number I am sure it was a mix of things but fuzzy bwains seems to haz forgotten >> and I need sleep, I wrote all this together at once(and these lines last) so forgive the incoherence...I take nap now K bubye =X.X=
==================
Ok I did it for you
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/12...-percent-report

Quote:Gaming site 1UP.com got its hands on a survey from SquareTrade, a firm that sells warranties for various consumer electronics. The company recent took a thousand claims it received and compiled statistics about relative gaming console failure rates. The results? The PlayStation 3 and the Wii both clocked in with failure rates of three percent, pretty standard when it comes to the average gadget. The Xbox 360, however, racked up a failure rate of 16.4 percent, according to SquareTrade, with 60 percent of those failures due to the dreaded Red Ring of Death.Which basically means, of what square trade covers they report a fail rate of 16% of which 60% accounts for the RROD.

Oh wait....... what its a is a statical study of 1000 people who bothered to fill out the form they were sent....

This basically means by then end of 07 the 360 may have had a fail rate around 16%, it also means out of the 30 million or so 360 users they hit a sweet spot in the 70%/30% working/nonworking statistic.

If you side with caution or reason there is really is nothing holding you back by saying that the fail rate can easily be above 15% even double it for older units possibly those made in and before 06-07 and the newer the units mid/late 07 to now will have a fail rate as high as 16%.

It really dose nothing to paint the 360/MS in a better light......... its still 5 or 6 times the normal fail rate for such devices....Lol, so you were addding the failure rate from the production line with the failure rate off the shelf? What if some consoles failed on both the production line and off the shelf. Let's just say the xbox 360 use to have a high failure rate, which has been fixed now (to some extent).FFS people, shorten your quotes!!!! ;)

17.7.2009 21:13 #100

ZippyDSM

Originally posted by rvinkebob:

FFS people, shorten your quotes!!!! ;)the system should only quote the last quote to keep things organized...it also should edit the last post and add to it for double posting.

:P

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".

17.7.2009 21:48 #101

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