AfterDawn: News

Sony explains decision to cut Linux option in PS3 Slim

While the PS3 Slim announcement was generally welcomed by most gamers last week, some weren't very happy about the lack of backwards compatibility, and the dropping of the "OtherOS" option which made it possible to install Linux on the PS3. On the first issue, Sony said that the console's ability to play PlayStation 2 (PS2) games was not a major driver of console sales and so was dropped for cost reasons, but it stayed silent for a while about the OtherOS decision.

This led to some theories of why Sony would want to kill the OtherOS option, which is cited often as a reason why many hackers haven't tried to break the system's security like they have with Xbox 360 and older consoles. One interesting theory said that Sony wasn't pleased by the use of multiple PS3s by research labs and companies to build "Cell clusters" that are relatively inexpensive.



Sony makes a loss on the sale of each PS3 console, but earns a lot of revenue from the sales of games released for the platform. The use of dozens of PS3 consoles in research labs for raw computing power or a similar task, would be seen as hurting Sony since no games are bought for any of those consoles. In the past this reality has even caused some speculation that a Sony update would kill, or limit, the OtherOS feature on older consoles.

However, SCE has committed to continue to support the OtherOS feature on older models. A sony rep gave the reason for the lack of OtherOS support in the new PS3 Slim on a Sony developer website...

"The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3."

Written by: James Delahunty @ 1 Sep 2009 22:30

• Previous article

• Sony loads VAIO's with Google Chrome

• Next article

• Xbox 360 Elite sales see strong growth in UK

• 43 comments

• H08

  wait... so drivers means its a software reason and not a hardware reason. And since sony is still adding the other OS feature to the fat PS3's firmware why cant they add it to the slims?

  2.9.2009 00:08 #1

• KillerBug

  Funny...when the universities started doing this, Sony was proud...they practicaly advertised it. Now it is too much of a bother to write one driver. How much could this save? Even if the driver costed $100,000 to write...it would add only pennies per system sold.
  
  Instead, as the article mentions, this will force hackers to break the PS3 protection to install linux...and as long as they are at it, they will probably allow for pirated software as well...lets see how that helps the game sales!

  2.9.2009 00:34 #2

• xnonsuchx

  At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???

  2.9.2009 01:07 #3

• kyo28

  I think the big reason is given in the edito of this news article:
  
  - Sony makes a loss on every console sold
  - Sony gets revenue from games sold on the PS3
  - Some people (mostly universities & research centres) bought PS3's to run Linux on it and use the cell's computing system, not to buy games on it
  
  Put all this together and I think it's clear that Sony thought the ability to use Linux costs them a lot more than it's added value is for gamers who buy the system. That's probably why they eliminated that feature, to prevent the PS3 from turning into a cheap computing piece of hardware.

  2.9.2009 02:59 #4

• KillerBug

  Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.

  2.9.2009 05:54 #5

• pphoenix

  they could remove Linux capabilities from all PS3's via an update if they really wanted to.
  
  as for backwards compatibility, ppl want it, sony say "no way we want you to purchase new games not play the old ones as we don't make money from that sort of thing"
  
  them old games do suck though, who would want to play GTA San Andreas any-more, you know them dark age games, get with the times people!
  
  old games are blocked to force new sales it's a common, bend over and lube up tactic employed by many.

  2.9.2009 06:52 #6

• canuckerz

  Interesting viewpoint on the reason they removed it, though I must say they wouldn't be ignorant enough to realize it could be a potential future market once they begin to make money with every console sold.
  
  Originally posted by pphoenix: as for backwards compatibility, ppl want it, sony say "no way we want you to purchase new games not play the old ones as we don't make money from that sort of thing"
  
  them old games do suck though, who would want to play GTA San Andreas any-more, you know them dark age games, get with the times people!
  
  old games are blocked to force new sales it's a common, bend over and lube up tactic employed by many.As far as bwc goes I'd have to disagree, I find that most people whine about having it but in reality would never use it. For a few reasons:
  
  1.)Anyone who has a bunch of ps2 games likely has a ps2 already.
  2.)Playing ps2 games on the ps3 was far from perfect even with my 60gig ps3, I'd rather play them on the ps2.
  
  It has nothing to do with forcing us to buy new games, they just realize that the majority of people would never really use it. And most people who complain about it were likely either actually not in the market to get a ps3 anyway/had no intentions to get one regardless; and even if they did would they actually get the use out of it that they claim they would? I'd have to say no, I've only ever used it to play gt4 and some old nhl game because I was curious to how it works.

  2.9.2009 09:42 #7

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Interesting viewpoint on the reason they removed it, though I must say they wouldn't be ignorant enough to realize it could be a potential future market once they begin to make money with every console sold.
  
  Originally posted by pphoenix: as for backwards compatibility, ppl want it, sony say "no way we want you to purchase new games not play the old ones as we don't make money from that sort of thing"
  
  them old games do suck though, who would want to play GTA San Andreas any-more, you know them dark age games, get with the times people!
  
  old games are blocked to force new sales it's a common, bend over and lube up tactic employed by many.As far as bwc goes I'd have to disagree, I find that most people whine about having it but in reality would never use it. For a few reasons:
  
  1.)Anyone who has a bunch of ps2 games likely has a ps2 already.
  2.)Playing ps2 games on the ps3 was far from perfect even with my 60gig ps3, I'd rather play them on the ps2.
  
  It has nothing to do with forcing us to buy new games, they just realize that the majority of people would never really use it. And most people who complain about it were likely either actually not in the market to get a ps3 anyway/had no intentions to get one regardless; and even if they did would they actually get the use out of it that they claim they would? I'd have to say no, I've only ever used it to play gt4 and some old nhl game because I was curious to how it works.It gets used more than you think I played as many PSX games as PS2 on the PS2, the PS3 dose not give me that option so I am in no rush to buy a new thing that only dose new stuff that offer less quality than the old stuff.
  
  ===============
  Is it me or has modern business's forgotten what value added means?
  You offer extra features and services as so you can spread whatever it is you are selling out just a bit more. You take away options,you back step on features you say no sorry you can return a suck ass film,cd or game after a few days of torture is it any wonder why people flock away from the media industry(see music industry and cd sales, see current drop in game software sales of 30+%) I swear its like they don't understand they treat the consumer like shit and charge them double for the pleasure and then wonder why they are loosing money still....

  2.9.2009 10:38 #8

• pirkster

  Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???No reputable company is going to use PS3s as the backbone of their infrastructure. Let's get real.
  
  Most folks doing it are schools doing it simply for the exercise (experience) and to say they could. Sandbox stuff with no real business value.
  
  And zippy... there is only value add if that feature is valued by the majority of consumers. Just because you or a minority want a feature, doesn't mean there will be any true, realized value by adding the feature.

  2.9.2009 10:57 #9

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???No reputable company is going to use PS3s as the backbone of their infrastructure. Let's get real.
  
  Most folks doing it are schools doing it simply for the exercise (experience) and to say they could. Sandbox stuff with no real business value.
  
  And zippy... there is only value add if that feature is valued by the majority of consumers. Just because you or a minority want a feature, doesn't mean there will be any true, realized value by adding the feature.It dose not matter it adds value to it and helps it sale by making it more competitive, the trouble is they are competing with them self and decided instead of adding 40$ to the price to break even they just took out the part. And that's what I am getting at removing services/features,employing dumb asses(consumer service,retail,ect)=Profit!!

  2.9.2009 11:01 #10

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.Ya the PS3 would be a no brainer from almost any POV if it had twice as much ram as it dose but because of that bottle neck its barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation....

  2.9.2009 11:04 #11

• jookycola

  I know a lot of people with PS3's, none of them have put Linux on theirs, nor do they have the desire to do so. It was a nice bonus just to have, but something 95% of people don't ever use.
  
  Also as BWC PS3 owner, i will say it's way over hyped. I used it once, and have never played again. When i want to play PS2 I simply go downstairs to my trusty old 35inch Sony CRT Triniton tv, fire up the PS2 and play. The PS2 and it's games were designed to look best on 480i standard Def with composite or s-cable hookup...and they do. The PS3's BWC reveals too many imperfections as it tries to HD the games. Which makes graphically awesome games like God of War look pixelated and choppy.

  2.9.2009 11:33 #12

• Oner

  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.Ya the PS3 would be a no brainer from almost any POV if it had twice as much ram as it dose but because of that bottle neck its barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation....Wow that's REALLY odd seeing that come from you Zippy, you understand technology better than that! The PS3 has 4 times the internal bandwidth and twice the memory bandwidth of the 360.
  
  Quote:There has been a lot of talk about the Playstation 3’s Random Access Memory (RAM) vs Xbox 360’s RAM, saying that the 360 has more RAM to work with etc. Here’s an article to explain the situation of its RAM.
  
  Just so you know that the PS3 has 512MB of RAM (256 for video and 256 for system). The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM. Now the key here is what type of RAM it is.
  
  The Playstation 3 has 256mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz and 256Mb of XDR at 3.2ghz. So what exactly is XDR ram? Here are some of the highlights:
  
  * XDR makes PS3 super effiecient
  * XDR aids in faster cache mapping, both direct and indirect
  * XDR ram works by a pointer to pointer technology and needs very small buswidth for execution
  * XDR is not just faster than GDDR3 but it is much more efficient
  * XDR RAM works by breaking down data into several packets which prevents data loss and exceptions
  
  The Rambus XDR™ memory architecture is a total memory system solution that achieves an order of magnitude higher performance than today’s standard memories while utilizing the fewest ICs. Perfect for compute and consumer electronics applications
  
  The PS3 has two times as much cache at 2x the speed, making it way faster for direct/indirect mapping. Not only that but it has 512k of L1 cache + 1.7m of L2 cache for the 7 spes. The PS3’s GPU, RSX was made to work with the Cell processor, it is not some GPU they took and slotted in. It is made to be compatible with the Cell.
  
  More RAM does not mean a faster system it means more data can be stored in a fast access area. Games don’t always need 512mb of RAM.
  
  The RSX can freely use as much of the 512MB total RAM that the PS3 has because the Cell doesn’t need much RAM because its fast enough. And the fact that the PS3 has XDR means that it has faster access to data files.
  
  A lot of people are saying that the RSX only has 256mb of RAM, whereas the 360’s GPU has 512MB of RAM. To make it sound a bit simpler, here’s the real deal. The PS3 has it’s RAM in two separate parts, 256MB for the RSX and 256MB that can be used be either the Cell or RSX.Source
  
  With titles like Killzone 2, GT5 Prolugue + GT5, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted 1 & 2 coming up (just to name a few) that show a definite real world difference I can't agree with you Zippy when you say that the PS3 is "barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation". Sorry.
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 12:11 #13

• Hunt720

  I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.
  
  as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..
  
  We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.
  
  Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.

  2.9.2009 12:23 #14

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Oner: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.Ya the PS3 would be a no brainer from almost any POV if it had twice as much ram as it dose but because of that bottle neck its barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation....Wow that's REALLY odd seeing that come from you Zippy, you understand technology better than that! The PS3 has 4 times the internal bandwidth and twice the memory bandwidth of the 360.
  
  Quote:There has been a lot of talk about the Playstation 3’s Random Access Memory (RAM) vs Xbox 360’s RAM, saying that the 360 has more RAM to work with etc. Here’s an article to explain the situation of its RAM.
  
  Just so you know that the PS3 has 512MB of RAM (256 for video and 256 for system). The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM. Now the key here is what type of RAM it is.
  
  The Playstation 3 has 256mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz and 256Mb of XDR at 3.2ghz. So what exactly is XDR ram? Here are some of the highlights:
  
  * XDR makes PS3 super effiecient
  * XDR aids in faster cache mapping, both direct and indirect
  * XDR ram works by a pointer to pointer technology and needs very small buswidth for execution
  * XDR is not just faster than GDDR3 but it is much more efficient
  * XDR RAM works by breaking down data into several packets which prevents data loss and exceptions
  
  The Rambus XDR™ memory architecture is a total memory system solution that achieves an order of magnitude higher performance than today’s standard memories while utilizing the fewest ICs. Perfect for compute and consumer electronics applications
  
  The PS3 has two times as much cache at 2x the speed, making it way faster for direct/indirect mapping. Not only that but it has 512k of L1 cache + 1.7m of L2 cache for the 7 spes. The PS3’s GPU, RSX was made to work with the Cell processor, it is not some GPU they took and slotted in. It is made to be compatible with the Cell.
  
  More RAM does not mean a faster system it means more data can be stored in a fast access area. Games don’t always need 512mb of RAM.
  
  The RSX can freely use as much of the 512MB total RAM that the PS3 has because the Cell doesn’t need much RAM because its fast enough. And the fact that the PS3 has XDR means that it has faster access to data files.
  
  A lot of people are saying that the RSX only has 256mb of RAM, whereas the 360’s GPU has 512MB of RAM. To make it sound a bit simpler, here’s the real deal. The PS3 has it’s RAM in two separate parts, 256MB for the RSX and 256MB that can be used be either the Cell or RSX.Source
  
  With titles like Killzone 2, GT5 Prolugue + GT5, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted 1 & 2 coming up (just to name a few) that show a definite real world difference I can't agree with you Zippy when you say that the PS3 is "barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation". Sorry.And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....
  
  edit
  The PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.
  

  Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
  Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
  http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/

  2.9.2009 12:29 #15

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.
  
  as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..
  
  We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.
  
  Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.
  Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.
  

  Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
  Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
  http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/

  2.9.2009 12:36 #16

• Hunt720

  Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.
  
  as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..
  
  We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.
  
  Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.
  Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactly

  2.9.2009 12:45 #17

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.
  
  as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..
  
  We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.
  
  Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.
  Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactly
  DOH...reading ...I no haz it...least not today...morning just wont go away ><

  2.9.2009 12:47 #18

• Hunt720

  thats ok. were still on for beers and console bashing for friday though right? ;-P

  2.9.2009 12:50 #19

• Oner

  Originally posted by Hunt720: Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.
  
  as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..
  
  We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.
  
  Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.
  Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactlyOr how about even porting (not emulating) PS2 games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or the new God of War Collection set coming up to be released in 720p HD on a Blu-ray disc for $30/$40 bucks...
  
  
  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....
  
  edit
  The PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.I don't know Zippy. This gen Sony has been more than forthcoming on giving/sharing/offering devs support, help, tools & such from within & for all not just first party's either...
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 13:55 #20

• glassd

  I dont even know what Lenux is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!

  2.9.2009 14:03 #21

• Oner

  Originally posted by glassd: I dont even know what Linux (*edit) is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!If you like to play old school emulators like NES, SNES, Genesis, TG16, N64 etc. and use other applications like VideoLan, Firefox or any number of other useful stuff then it can matter quite a lot in terms of functionality/options...
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 14:19 #22

• glassd

  Ok. I have a ton of Sega Genesis Games out in the shop. Will have a hard time inserting them into my 60gig PS3.
  I understand, thanks.

  2.9.2009 14:24 #23

• xnonsuchx

  Originally posted by glassd: I dont even know what Lenux is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!For 95-99% of end users, it's no big deal. For the ultra-geeky few, it's something to experiment with (it's hard to imagine any PS3 user doesn't already have a PC/Mac for their primary computer use). The limited memory and lack of graphics acceleration (the RSX GPU isn't accessible in 'Other OS' mode) turns it into a fairly basic computer unless you have apps designed to use the 6 available Cell SPUs. The biggest issue is that Sony essentially put out of business a few companies that were selling PS3 Linux clusters...unless they can continue by sourcing used/refurbed older PS3s.

  2.9.2009 14:29 #24

• Oner

  Originally posted by glassd: Ok. I have a ton of Sega Genesis Games out in the shop. Will have a hard time inserting them into my 60gig PS3.
  I understand, thanks.You got a chuckle out of me on that one! Touché
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 15:11 #25

• BTFan

  The only thing that annoys me in these News discussions about PS3s and Xboxs is how Oner can pretty much tell anyone anything he wants in any attitude or language while someone else can't or else it's considered a fanboy comment. IMO, Oner is a huge fanboy. He doensn't repect his own rules for 'why to ban someone'.
  
  I'll probably get banned to voice my opinion but I just really wanted to say this.

  2.9.2009 15:29 #26

• Oner

  Originally posted by BTFan: The only thing that annoys me in these News discussions about PS3s and Xboxs is how Oner can pretty much tell anyone anything he wants in any attitude or language while someone else can't or else it's considered a fanboy comment. IMO, Oner is a huge fanboy. He doensn't repect his own rules for 'why to ban someone'.
  
  I'll probably get banned to voice my opinion but I just really wanted to say this.Really. Then why haven't I banned InterestX (to use as an example) then? Where have I used inappropriate language? Because I sure don't see it...maybe because it's not there is why? Just because someone is misinformed does not mean I will ban them or because I can get into a debate with someone does not mean anyone has done anything wrong.
  
  You on the other hand for blatantly calling me out like that publicly with no proof is a ban-able offense..should I ban you? Or are you trying the a Catch 22 argument? Either way your post is out of line and needs to be taken to PM's if you still have issue from this point out.
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 15:42 #27

• jookycola

  Why? Oner just states facts. And also provides sources and links to proof. and what information he provides without sources is usually common knowledge that anyone can find in a simple google search.
  
  It's the fanboys that try to debunk facts with B.S. and opinions that get mad at him. I own both a 360 and a PS3 and i see nothing wrong with what Oner says. It's only the truth, and i think that pisses off fanboys more than anything because they can't handle that the only good thing 360 had over the PS3 was price. With that problem out of the way now it's a whole new ballgame.
  
  When you provide facts, and back it up, your just stating truth.
  A Fanboy is someone who is way to attached to something and aggressively defends their opinions often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors (often including logic, or hard facts) that differ from their point of view.

  2.9.2009 15:57 #28

• glassd

  I think Jack Nicolson has a statement for those that don’t like Oner.

  2.9.2009 16:06 #29

• Oner

  Originally posted by jookycola: Why? Oner just states facts. And also provides sources and links to proof. and what information he provides without sources is usually common knowledge that anyone can find in a simple google search.
  
  It's the fanboys that try to debunk facts with B.S. and opinions that get mad at him. I own both a 360 and a PS3 and i see nothing wrong with what Oner says. It's only the truth, and i think that pisses off fanboys more than anything because they can't handle that the only good thing 360 had over the PS3 was price. With that problem out of the way now it's a whole new ballgame.
  
  When you provide facts, and back it up, your just stating truth.
  A Fanboy is someone who is way to attached to something and aggressively defends their opinions often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors (often including logic, or hard facts) that differ from their point of view.
  Originally posted by glassd: I think Jack Nicolson has a statement for those that don’t like Oner.Thanks Guys. I really needed that too, because it does get daunting at times and I second guess if what I am saying is wrong or something...I know I can be harsh in my tone but I'm a born a raised New Yorker ~ I can't help it!
  
  But jooky got it right. As a Mod (especially being brought in specifically for the console sections) I have to know my stuff and back what I say up to provide aD'ers with proper factual information...that's what we're here for, aren't we?
  
  LoL @ glassd!
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 16:12 #30

• glassd

  It is nice to have you around. The small amount of bickering that goes on here is nothing compared to other sites due to you and other mod’s keeping a lid on things. When Facts are provided (from which ever side) it tends to keep “Opinions” in check.

  2.9.2009 16:20 #31

• pphoenix

  Originally posted by glassd: It is nice to have you around. The small amount of bickering that goes on here is nothing compared to other sites due to you and other mod’s keeping a lid on things. When Facts are provided (from which ever side) it tends to keep “Opinions” in check.is it ok for certain members to be completely off topic at afterdawn then Oner?

  2.9.2009 17:43 #32

• Oner

  Originally posted by pphoenix: Originally posted by glassd: It is nice to have you around. The small amount of bickering that goes on here is nothing compared to other sites due to you and other mod’s keeping a lid on things. When Facts are provided (from which ever side) it tends to keep “Opinions” in check.is it ok for certain members to be completely off topic at afterdawn then Oner?That seems soooooo like a loaded question that I shouldn't even try to answer it because there isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer that will please everyone. BUT I will say this (and this goes for ALL members) ~ If it is within the realm of discussion (even being off topic) then sometimes yes. Especially when you talk about consoles. It is bound to happen that other similar topics will come up that involves some lee way to explain X, Y or Z. The tricky thing is having to really look closely at who-said-what-and-when to see where the off topic began. Sometimes it is pertinent to the conversation (even though not being tied to the thread title), while other times it is not, BUT isn't something that is "bad" to the overall standing of the thread.
  
  I.E. A thread discussing Sales of an Xbox 360 but someone brings up the loudness of the PS3's Fan or something to do with Blu-Ray would be off topic...BUT to compare sales of the Wii to the 360 or PS3 deserves some lee way, as it's topical and informational.
  

  
  
  Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
  Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

  2.9.2009 18:10 #33

• canuckerz

  Heres a question, the ps3 linux clusters they were selling to the universities and such, were their capabilities limited under linux like ours were? That wouldn't make sense, and if it wasn't restricted whats the differences between the consoles hardware/software. Like say if one got a hold of the specific firmware could one unlock all of the power under linux?
  

  
  

  2.9.2009 19:25 #34

• shaffaaf

  im sure LOTS of people ddint know linux was an option on the PS3 till it got taken away LOL.
  
  if anything we should praise sony for bringing in backwards compatiilty.
  
  i was so pissed when i couldnt play my nes games on my snes, but in the end i had to jsut use 2 consoles, but the snes had much better games and the nes giot shelved.
  
  PS1 games can be played on ANY PS3, its just PS2 games, but if you still have those then you still have a PS2.
  
  what they shoudl do is allow you to buy them off the PSN for people that want them, i.e the killzone 2 fiasco. i played it, i made a few friends play it, but the OG killzone 1, hardly anyone played. for somereason, that and black, no one liked.
  
  now KZ2 comes out on PS3 and lots of people wanna complete the OG version and not be left behind. im sure lots of PS3 onwners that wanted to might not have a had a PS2, so i doubt they would buy the PS2 jsut for KZ1.
  
  
  thats why i likes what GoW are doing, bringin 1 n 2 to the PS3 before releasing number 3. i can say i priated the first 2, but they were amazing, and this time i will buy them.
  
  
  no one realises what they miss till its gone. the UMD was the bane of PSP users at one poitn, people saying its too much to lug around 10 umds, theyr shoudl ahve dldable games. people pirate the psp and use one MS with all the games. THEN comes the PSP go and everyones like, ZOMG TEH UMD!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!1!1!1!
  even though they hated it the day before.
  
  some people just love to bitch and moan. others just get on with life.
  

  
  
  
  My MGR (Micro Gaming Rig)
  Intel E5200 @ 2.808GHz .|. DFI Jr P45-T2RS Micro ATX .|. 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-8500 Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F1 640GB HDD .|. Pinoeer DVR-216DBK ODD .|. Silverstone NT-06E CPU cooler (passive) .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Silverstone Sugo Micro ATX SG02-F Evolution .|. NorthQ Black Magic 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM MVA Monitor .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell TN Monitor .|.

  2.9.2009 19:41 #35

• xnonsuchx

  Originally posted by canuckerz: Heres a question, the ps3 linux clusters they were selling to the universities and such, were their capabilities limited under linux like ours were? That wouldn't make sense, and if it wasn't restricted whats the differences between the consoles hardware/software. Like say if one got a hold of the specific firmware could one unlock all of the power under linux?
  Same capabilities...they were only useful as long as they had distributed Cell-optimized apps to run (usually, just pure number-crunching programs like Folding@home which don't need graphics acceleration/lotsa RAM/etc.). That's what most server clusters are used for.

  2.9.2009 20:30 #36

• PantherM

  The extra OS and BC are overrated. I have two PS3's....one is an original 60GB, the other is a 40GB model. I use them the exact same way. No Linux, no PS2 games.

  2.9.2009 21:22 #37

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by Oner: Originally posted by Hunt720: Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.
  
  as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..
  
  We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.
  
  Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.
  Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactlyOr how about even porting (not emulating) PS2 games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or the new God of War Collection set coming up to be released in 720p HD on a Blu-ray disc for $30/$40 bucks...
  
  
  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....
  
  edit
  The PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.I don't know Zippy. This gen Sony has been more than forthcoming on giving/sharing/offering devs support, help, tools & such from within & for all not just first party's either...
  No doubt sony has HAD to to be more open with devs. But I am looking at the end of the day final real world function of the PS3 and frankly its not beyond what the 360 can do even if on paper its 3 or 5 times faster.
  
  Now if they used a more normal CPU archetype with fully integrated sound and video system on the mobo so it runs smoothy can share resources if need be and has a large 1GB or so of ramm(basically something like the360 only 3 times faster) we could see a clear difference in games as many more devs would be able to optimize and sue what they know rather than relaying on sony or their dev staff to relearn what a wheel is. From what I see its going to take up half of the PS3s 10 year life span to catch the software up with the hardware and that's just plain silly(even more so if the shine is the primary draw of it) even if the normal span is 2-3 years for devs to really start to make stuff shine on a new system.
  

  Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
  Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
  http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/

  2.9.2009 21:44 #38

• ediende

  Why? Oner just states facts

  3.9.2009 04:55 #39

• kyo28

  Originally posted by PantherM: The extra OS and BC are overrated. I have two PS3's....one is an original 60GB, the other is a 40GB model. I use them the exact same way. No Linux, no PS2 games.I have to agree there. I have launch 60GB Japanese PS3 and never used Linux on it and only used the BC the first year or so.

  3.9.2009 05:16 #40

• emugamer

  There are still millions of phat PS3's out there. Now would be a good time to go slim. Research labs can still get their hands on whatever is left, and after that, there will be plenty of used ones for years to come.
  
  @zippy
  in 5 years when the software catches up to the hardware, I will throw down cash for a new next-gen Nintendo console. Will they deliver??

  3.9.2009 12:41 #41

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by emugamer: There are still millions of phat PS3's out there. Now would be a good time to go slim. Research labs can still get their hands on whatever is left, and after that, there will be plenty of used ones for years to come.
  
  @zippy
  in 5 years when the software catches up to the hardware, I will throw down cash for a new next-gen Nintendo console. Will they deliver??The WII was built to be fully usable from the start sadly its not going to get much better due to the limits of the control mechanisms they use. But the PS3 might be alot better in 5 years :P
  

  Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
  Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
  http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/

  3.9.2009 15:03 #42

• IguanaC64

  Yet another reason not to buy a PS3 slim for me. I enjoy using my gaming consoles for utility once they're past their gaming usefulness. People are still using Sega Dreamcasts, XBox's, and PS2's for all sorts of stuff. Retrogaming...FTP server...web server...etc.
  
  Sony just wants to strangle the life out of it so that it does nothing that Sony, Inc doesn't want it to...even after they've quit caring about it.

  3.9.2009 15:04 #43