AfterDawn: News

Four members of pre-release piracy group face jail time, fines

Following the guilty plea of one, and the conviction of a second, four more members of the pre-release piracy group RNS have been indicted on charges of conspiring to commit copyright infringement for their roles in uploading pre-release music, sometimes weeks before the the CD's official street date.

RNS, one of the older groups on the "scene," was started in 1999 by Adil R. Cassim, who even then was distributing music online and RNS grew in reputation as a "pre-release" group.



"The supply of pre-release music was often provided by music industry insiders, such as employees of compact disc manufacturing plants, radio stations, and retailers, who typically receive advance copies of music prior to its commercial release," reads the court documents, via Ars.

It is unclear how many albums the uploaders are accused of sharing, but the US DOJ says the amount of tracks distributed is in the thousands. Each group member had a different task, such as ripping, encoding, server management, and of course, the obtaining of the actual CD before the release date.

For their alleged crimes, each of the men face up to five years in prison and $250,000 USD fines.

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 11 Sep 2009 13:25

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• 16 comments

• 5fdpfan

  Well it sucks that those individuals are getting in trouble for uploading these tracks, but I certainly thank them for their service. If albums were released just a tad bit quicker than they are now perhaps this wouldn't have to happen. I mean, come on! if physical copies are available weeks before the "offical street date" then wouldn't comon sense tell yout to release it sooner? The hording of music before releasing it to the public is unacceptable, and I for one feel sorry for no one except for maybe the artists, for any lost profits from unauthorized uploading of unreleased music. Memo to all record labels. Release what you have sooner or it will be done for you. Haha!

  11.9.2009 13:52 #1

• ZippyDSM

  If they didn't make money off it there is no crime, period.

  11.9.2009 14:44 #2

• xyqo

  Originally posted by ZippyDSM: If they didn't make money off it there is no crime, period.Well do you think they should be held responsible for persons who did make money off their work eg. selling bootleg CDs that were obtain online from RNS sources

  11.9.2009 14:56 #3

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Originally posted by ZippyDSM: If they didn't make money off it there is no crime, period.Well do you think they should be held responsible for persons who did make money off their work eg. selling bootleg CDs that were obtain online from RNS sourcesSo are you going to to jail the artist who gives a song to a friend who gives it to a friend who likes it so much they share it to try and promote it and its just happens to be bootleged somewhere down the line because it existed?
  
  Oy people a clue you need to gain....

  11.9.2009 14:59 #4

• xyqo

  I was just asking.
  I'm some what conflicted on this matter because record lables are filled with money grubbing goons frankly they're little more than extortionists. But I really do feel it for some artists that really don't get the revenues from record sales that they are due.
  With that said it's hard to listen to your conscience and not dl an album when you see a guy buy 4 range rovers and 5 hummers.

  11.9.2009 15:04 #5

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by xyqo: I was just asking.
  I'm some what conflicted on this matter because record lables are filled with money grubbing goons frankly they're little more than extortionists. But I really do feel it for some artists that really don't get the revenues from record sales that they are due.
  With that said it's hard to listen to your conscience and not dl an album when you see a guy buy 4 range rovers and 5 hummers.Well the problem is the same with the poor(or child porn), you will ALWAYS HAVE IT, and now adays even making a personal backup is considered piracy(and your baby pictures are considered child porn half the time).
  
  You have to draw a clear line in the sand and that IMO comes down to illicit profit(for child porn it comes down to making it and making money off it focus on these 2 things and you will always marginalize it to safe levels within society), if you are not making money off it be it donation or selling it you are not committing a crime either civil or criminal.

  11.9.2009 15:09 #6

• bryguy12

  Quote:If they didn't make money off it there is no crime, period.
  Quote:IMO comes down to illicit profit(for child porn it comes down to making it and making money off it focus on these 2 things and you will always marginalize it to safe levels within society), if you are not making money off it be it donation or selling it you are not committing a crime either civil or criminal.What the frig? I commit many small crimes, but I admit I know they're crimes. And yes, I rationalize them with 'the money wouldn't have gone to the original producer' etc, like many of us do. Heck, if I'm at a red light and it's 3am, no traffic ... I'll not wait 2 mins for the green. But I still know I broke a law, and if I'm caught I accept responsibility.
  
  But you keep slamming us with "only if you made money" and then add some crap about child porn? At least you added 'making it'... but with your logic:
  
  I could walk into your yard, steal your car you were going to sell, deliver it to my friend and say, "Here, have a free car."... and that's not a crime? I didn't make any money, so it's no crime?
  
  I could ask the local pervert for child porn via mail, and he photos your baby sister in lewd acts ... and that's not a crime since I didn't make it or pay for it? Oh, especially not if I then pass those pics on to someone else for free?
  
  Listen to yourself before you throw those arguments out to the public. These guys knew they were committing a crime, but may have rationalized it with the 'attention not profit' thing. You and I and millions of others may download a song that we never would have bought anyway, but that's still a crime. And your silliness with trying to justify child porn? Being the market for illegal items or music, be they stolen or unlawful to possess or use == CRIME.
  
  Most downloaders of anything will never be 'caught'... and never would have bought the stuff even if it was not available on 'free' sources like P2P -- but it's still a crime. Kind of a small one individually, but you have to know the world is a collective group, and X million minor thefts is the same as one big ass one.

  11.9.2009 16:32 #7

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Quote:If they didn't make money off it there is no crime, period.
  What the frig? I commit many small crimes, but I admit I know they're crimes. And yes, I rationalize them with 'the money wouldn't have gone to the original producer' etc, like many of us do. Heck, if I'm at a red light and it's 3am, no traffic ... I'll not wait 2 mins for the green. But I still know I broke a law, and if I'm caught I accept responsibility.
  
  But you keep slamming us with "only if you made money" and then add some crap about child porn? At least you added 'making it'... but with your logic:
  If you bother to read into what I am trying to point out they make up restrictions at first to deal with REAL crime then tighten them up to make money. but then again it seems people these days can not read into anything that's not spelled out clearly using proper grammar...
  
  
  
  Quote:I could walk into your yard, steal your car you were going to sell, deliver it to my friend and say, "Here, have a free car."... and that's not a crime? I didn't make any money, so it's no crime?
  Yes because it deals with something that can not be duplicated by anyone.
  Quote:
  I could ask the local pervert for child porn via mail, and he photos your baby sister in lewd acts ... and that's not a crime since I didn't make it or pay for it? Oh, especially not if I then pass those pics on to someone else for free?
  Good question, IMO I'd rather not have distribution so restricted but rather the making of it, but there again what of the victim. The answers are not always so cut and dry when see that even fake child porn is illegal these days,even a teenager taking risque pictures of themselfs can make them a child predetor. Like drugs its something that should NOT be so easily distributed but owning it is not a crime in of itself.
  
  Quote:
  Listen to yourself before you throw those arguments out to the public. These guys knew they were committing a crime, but may have rationalized it with the 'attention not profit' thing. You and I and millions of others may download a song that we never would have bought anyway, but that's still a crime. And your silliness with trying to justify child porn? Being the market for illegal items or music, be they stolen or unlawful to possess or use == CRIME.
  
  Most downloaders of anything will never be 'caught'... and never would have bought the stuff even if it was not available on 'free' sources like P2P -- but it's still a crime. Kind of a small one individually, but you have to know the world is a collective group, and X million minor thefts is the same as one big ass one.
  Unfortunately when I look at these issues I must see them in contrast and weigh them so they can not be taken to the extremes of stupidity. A perfect world were everyone works to gain stuff or everything is free is a practical impossibility.
  
  
  Fortunately you can not make copying/shareing a criminal offense you can make the selling of it so.You however can making copying a civil crime where million dollar lawyers go around busting knees in order to uphold their racket upon society.
  
  Do try and think more begin offended at thinking and balancing issues is why modern society is a joke.

  11.9.2009 17:01 #8

• DXR88

  Quote:It is unclear how many albums the uploaders are accused of sharing, but the US DOJ says the amount of tracks distributed is in the thousands. Each group member had a different task, such as ripping, encoding, server management, and of course, the obtaining of the actual CD before the release date. this is not DOJs problem why are they involved.
  
  Quote:conspiring to commit this is a fancy word for we have no evidence. No doubt this four men where scheming to upload unreleased music.
  
  Quote:I could walk into your yard, steal your car you were going to sell, deliver it to my friend and say, "Here, have a free car.Zippy he's conspiring to steal your car. better have him arrested and thrown in jail.

  12.9.2009 03:04 #9

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Quote:It is unclear how many albums the uploaders are accused of sharing, but the US DOJ says the amount of tracks distributed is in the thousands. Each group member had a different task, such as ripping, encoding, server management, and of course, the obtaining of the actual CD before the release date. this is not DOJs problem why are they involved.
  
  Quote:conspiring to commit this is a fancy word for we have no evidence. No doubt this four men where scheming to upload unreleased music.
  
  Quote:I could walk into your yard, steal your car you were going to sell, deliver it to my friend and say, "Here, have a free car.Zippy he's conspiring to steal your car. better have him arrested and thrown in jail.They can't arrest me for thinking about stealing a car but they can arrest me for talking to a under aged person, go fig.

  12.9.2009 03:08 #10

• jhunter

  this whole thing is stupid. its like everything is illegal. pretty soon breathing air will come with a price! just curious but whose at fault the people downloading songs (or movies or games) or the people who uploaded it so that people can download it. its funny that the ones who are pressing charges all the time are the ones who live in the nice houses driving the fancy cars while we (the consumers) are the ones who are putting OUR money in their pockets while so they can live the glamorous life while we live paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet.

  12.9.2009 13:57 #11

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by jhunter: this whole thing is stupid. its like everything is illegal. pretty soon breathing air will come with a price! just curious but whose at fault the people downloading songs (or movies or games) or the people who uploaded it so that people can download it. its funny that the ones who are pressing charges all the time are the ones who live in the nice houses driving the fancy cars while we (the consumers) are the ones who are putting OUR money in their pockets while so they can live the glamorous life while we live paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet.Well most places have made smoking illegal but for your own home.
  The trouble with modern society is poltistions need to fake moral/figurative alarms to pass laws to protect people from themselves and all it ever dose is allow government yet another path to your wallet.

  12.9.2009 14:35 #12

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:Quote:If they didn't make money off it there is no crime, period.
  Quote:IMO comes down to illicit profit(for child porn it comes down to making it and making money off it focus on these 2 things and you will always marginalize it to safe levels within society), if you are not making money off it be it donation or selling it you are not committing a crime either civil or criminal.What the frig? I commit many small crimes, but I admit I know they're crimes. And yes, I rationalize them with 'the money wouldn't have gone to the original producer' etc, like many of us do. Heck, if I'm at a red light and it's 3am, no traffic ... I'll not wait 2 mins for the green. But I still know I broke a law, and if I'm caught I accept responsibility.
  
  But you keep slamming us with "only if you made money" and then add some crap about child porn? At least you added 'making it'... but with your logic:
  
  I could walk into your yard, steal your car you were going to sell, deliver it to my friend and say, "Here, have a free car."... and that's not a crime? I didn't make any money, so it's no crime?
  
  I could ask the local pervert for child porn via mail, and he photos your baby sister in lewd acts ... and that's not a crime since I didn't make it or pay for it? Oh, especially not if I then pass those pics on to someone else for free?
  
  Listen to yourself before you throw those arguments out to the public. These guys knew they were committing a crime, but may have rationalized it with the 'attention not profit' thing. You and I and millions of others may download a song that we never would have bought anyway, but that's still a crime. And your silliness with trying to justify child porn? Being the market for illegal items or music, be they stolen or unlawful to possess or use == CRIME.
  
  Most downloaders of anything will never be 'caught'... and never would have bought the stuff even if it was not available on 'free' sources like P2P -- but it's still a crime. Kind of a small one individually, but you have to know the world is a collective group, and X million minor thefts is the same as one big ass one.
  I forgot to say when you make making real child porn,thats defined under strict rules, and disturbing it for money an automatic death sentence where there is no parole but death, you mitigate possession to a point it dose not have to be a crime.

  12.9.2009 14:40 #13

• bryguy12

  I'll preface this with a bit of self-realization: I don't know exactly where to draw each law, because some things to me are cut and dry laws or social norms... but how do I explain why 'this' is against my ethics and 'that' isn't? Can't say for sure. Catch me on a bad day and it's, "Off with their heads!"
  
  As for replying further to anything you've had to say, Zippy... forget it. I can tell I responded to a moron who's watched half of some Law & Order episodes on tv (when he should have been doing some homework). Sometimes I make the mistake of starting a logical discussion with a box of rocks, and not those smart rocks... my mistake. Let's just say you won with your irrefutable logic. Congratulations.

  12.9.2009 22:17 #14

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by bryguy12: I'll preface this with a bit of self-realization: I don't know exactly where to draw each law, because some things to me are cut and dry laws or social norms... but how do I explain why 'this' is against my ethics and 'that' isn't? Can't say for sure. Catch me on a bad day and it's, "Off with their heads!"
  
  As for replying further to anything you've had to say, Zippy... forget it. I can tell I responded to a moron who's watched half of some Law & Order episodes on tv (when he should have been doing some homework). Sometimes I make the mistake of starting a logical discussion with a box of rocks, and not those smart rocks... my mistake. Let's just say you won with your irrefutable logic. Congratulations.
  I don't stop thinking no matter how bad the poo gets :P
  
  Unfortunately we have had both locally and nationally people to be listed sex offenders for all the wrong reasons,we have also have had a movement in the US to make fictional works dealing with children and sex a crime and have had at least 2 cases where someone went to jail just for it alone, most notably teens taking pictures of themselfs, frankly when it deals with kids you have to separate the teens and the children we have done so for hundreds of years now they all are partial "young adults" who are subjected to bipolar laws that randomly damage innocent just for the appearance of the greater good being served.
  
  Those that produce child porn fall into 2 categories teens 14 and up that get hit with degrading minor,statutory rape and a felony with parole, depending or not if their was violence and or abuse involved if so then life imprisonment or death,for anything involving a child that looks like a teen 11-13 automatic felony and parole and anything else the court can throw on it , for anything under 10 life, child rape= death,rape should be very VERY limited to 2 or 3 slip ups then your worth as a member of society is null and void.
  
  When it comes to the pictures themselfs government should drive to remove them but making them a crime it starts things on a slippery slope, but I can see limiting distribution to be a good thing.
  
  Murder has more reasonable circumstances than rape of any kind, and frankly habitable rapist(rappers or otherwise) should get a bullet between the eyes and save society alot of grief....
  
  As for media and art its made to been seen as much as its made to be sold, sorry I can't see it any other way but that dose not mean I am all for everything should be free. Quite the opposite if you are unlicensed you can not make a penny off copy righted(TM) works but can at your own expense can give it away, how many torrent/file share sites work on subscriptions,donations or ads? Remove all of that and you marginalize the "crime" to something that is not very criminal. IMO whats criminal is them telling me mod chips and after market modding is illegal,personal back ups are illegal and copy circumvention to protect my invests are illegal, I would rather not have big brother in my bedroom wanting to know what I am doing.
  
  Of course this is all conjecture,best guessing and my own damn pooy opinion's but so what,either come up withing more than "I don't think you should, I can't say why..., I don't like thinking, baaaa baaaa ..... bbaaaaa, I like it in the ass because I like being dominated by others."
  
  Come on now you can should be able to formulate reason and opinion better than this grade A wanna be ass hole who smokes his own poo for the lulz of it!!

  12.9.2009 22:58 #15

• revgord

  I am glad to see someone else refute the bad logic of "it is not a crime if no money exchanges hands". I won't waste much time there as it is really bad logic.
  
  Different countries have different laws.
  Actions I do legally in Canada may be illegal elsewhere. Get used to it.
  
  If you do not like the laws of your country then work to change them, or make sure you don't get caught.
  
  The RNS group knew they were doing something illegal.
  
  The RNS group loved being looked up to as rebels and probabl;y took great pride in their activity.
  
  The Chinese have a saying that "the tallest trees are the ones cut down"
  
  If you want to stand out as the leader in an illegal activity you will be a target.
  
  That is why most of the leaders in "the scene" are either teens(not yet wise), or people who are very good at secrecy.
  
  I am glad that Canada has very relaxed laws on what the USA calls piracy. The big US companies are trying to buy the Canadian legal system in these issues. We need to keep them out of our laws.
  
  The Pirate Bay "stood tall" for a time and suffered because their government sold out to big money interests.
  
  I want to finis with one thought.
  
  Do not be surprised, but DO be careful

  11.1.2010 11:35 #16