The most important of the patches (I'm sure) being the one telling you that your legal copy of Windows is indeed illegal & that you're an asshole.
Then after 4 fruitless hours of trying to go online and re-confirm your copy of Windows, the remainder of your week will be spent with the soothing tunes of barf jazz as you wait on the land line to argue with customer service over the redundant issues of the exact same thing that happened last time when you did their last "CRITICAL" update.
Chances are, a bunch of us are going to skip this one & giggle at the fallout before subjecting ourselves to the horror of the update. But then that's why there are tech sites out there that do the testing for us instead of FNGs fumbling around and then whining about it wanting others to fix it for them when 'we' don't have the knowledge yet.
Bah... don't get old... it's a bummer.
11.6.2011 00:25 #1
Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall.
11.6.2011 05:44 #2
Originally posted by KillerBug: Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall. I've had to do that as a matter of fact! You got to love MS I use to push updates with no problem but with this .msu change (WUSA) things don't always go so well. I always batch my own updates and do them in MS's order but re-ordered by newest date first. It works pretty well and now that I use START WUSA, instead of just WUSA so that the updates don't try to install at the same time on reboot.
11.6.2011 10:54 #3
Originally posted by KillerBug: Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall. Which is one of the reasons WHY I don't update. Too many "accidents and crashes" have been caused by these. This one of the reasons why we have anti-viruses in the first place, and no I'm not being naive about this. It's just I see this as an exploit for Microsoft to know what's going with your computer by shoveling spyware into your system unexpectedly. I don't diss on Microsoft, but I don't trust them entirely either. Just my 2 cents. - BLUEBOY
11.6.2011 12:51 #4
Originally posted by blueboy09: Originally posted by KillerBug: Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall. Which is one of the reasons WHY I don't update. Too many "accidents and crashes" have been caused by these. This one of the reasons why we have anti-viruses in the first place, and no I'm not being naive about this. It's just I see this as an exploit for Microsoft to know what's going with your computer by shoveling spyware into your system unexpectedly. I don't diss on Microsoft, but I don't trust them entirely either. Just my 2 cents. - BLUEBOY I don't normally update however if/when I do I can always fall back on my image backup so if something does go south I can recover fast. I always turn off AutoUpdates!
That is exactly right your AV should be handling these things however if you use Norton or McAffee (NoBrain & McCrappy) they automatically turn on updates and get vulgar if you turn them back off. You got to love it. :>)
11.6.2011 13:19 #5
Sounds like my sarcasm was well met?
11.6.2011 13:58 #6
Well it looks like I have noting left to add except for ditto.
If you are developing with MS products you are locked in for the abuse. I really hate those folks!
11.6.2011 14:52 #7
Then I shall close with a rim-shot...
11.6.2011 15:51 #8
Hmmmmm, maybe its a business use thing but I don't understand why I have never had a single update problem ever (even when I have used a 3rd party vulnerability patch out of cycle).
And I religiously update my 3 systems every PT.
11.6.2011 16:51 #9
'Some' (not many however) folks really don't ever have a problem. To them I tip my hat. It's usually guys that custom build systems and fringe, system parts that might/weren't originally in the thoughts of M$'s software engineers when the patches were coming out.
Kind of have to remember, these patches have to accommodate the broadest number of systems out there that can be had at one time possible.
11.6.2011 21:19 #10
It could be a glitch in the download/install if you use auto updates, it can be your security software, it can be two updates trying to run at the same time, it can be a corrupt hard drive or system partition, it could be a fussy update, it basically can be a lot of things. However the idea that if I didn't have a problem then no one must have problems is just ludicrous and naive. All you have to do is search for problem like Updates and you'll find tons of people having issues it certainly is a common problem with MS.
11.6.2011 22:18 #11
Mr-Movies
I never ever said " I didn't have a problem then no one must have problems".
I'm just saying my experience, it makes a change from the belly-aching everytime anything to do with MS. XP, Vista or 7 comes up (and I use all 3 OSs & like I said religiously update every one of them every PT).
But talk about 'go look in the mirror'.
I just find the predictable & repeated whinging & chatter of some here who seem to insist that their bad experience and problems must mean the MS OS and patches are bad products etc etc a bit of a one-sided bore.
The fact is those with issues tend to go on-line looking for help & some stick around to moan about it, a self-selected group which hardly reflects the zillions of people out there happily using the software
(and as noted it can be many things well beyond MS's OS or testing giving rise to the issue).
But that doesn't necessarily make their experience typical or common no matter how many times you see it on-line either now does it?
It's a pity too cos that kind of atmosphere can give rise to people not updating and leaving the machines open to attack & exploit.
I for one appreciate the on-going support and am open minded enough to know this situation is by necessity a reactive one & can hardly be handled much differently (well not if you want an OS that works so easily with so much stuff right away etc etc).
11.6.2011 22:47 #12
That was a decent and reasonable reply this time!
However just because you are sensitive about people complaining about legit problems with MS doesn't make it right to jump in and say things like "I don't understand why I have never had a single update problem ever (even when I have used a 3rd party vulnerability patch out of cycle)". This is a smirky attack on the basis that I haven't had a problem so what is wrong with you guys. You may not have meant this but I believe you really did, especially since you have said you were tired of people complaining.
I understand this to some extent because I see the same type of irritants out of several people and I too don’t always hold back either, obviously.
I too could pull that attitude as I typically don't have problems and there are some problems I don't experience that others do, however I deal with many people. I try not to attack others even if I don't fully understand their problem(s) and issues but no one’s perfect.
With your last reply I don't think you are trying to start anything and I think you'd rather get along so just consider this food for thought and I'll try not to jump on you as much when things get a little snappy.
Have a good one X,
Stevo
12.6.2011 00:07 #13
Mr-Movies
Sorry if you took it that way but really, I wasn't trying to be in the least bit 'smirky'.
I have had computer problems in the past a few times myself and I know what a PITA they can be (happily peripheral not Windows ones tho).
I am just a little tired of seeing this so often put so one-sidedly, of course some have problems (and of course I have no problem with people saying so & relating their experience) but it would be nice to see it bourne in mind that most don't.
In fairness I would agree it would be just as irritating if it were nothing but praise in these threads.
I'm really not into attacking anyone's POV but it seems to me that it's almost at a game-saying level, when anything Windows comes up (esp to do with patching) it's cue for a mass moan often phrased as if it's the usual common experience when it isn't.
Take it easy & have a great what is left of the w/e. :¬)
12.6.2011 02:57 #14
I seem to remember reading a while back that the Knoppix (Linux)Live DVD could/can be used to install Windows Updates selectively w/o the need to boot into Windows directly, but by just mounting the partition that the Windows OS is located on. (I have 2 Windows OSes (XP Pro & Home) that are installed on their own separate partitions and HDDs. I am now disabled and living upon a small fixed income,and cannot afford to buy or build a new, used, or reconditioned laptop or desktop that also has Windows 7 installed or is available/included on a DVD disk.
One I use only for testing purposes, the other for actual online use, and of course both are backed up onto both DVDs and external HDDs, just in case I need to reinstall them. I also never download OR install any non-Microsoft software or 3rd party apps into the SAME partition that the OS resides on. The Windows "pagefile" also gets moved out and is reinstalled into its own (~2 GB) partition that is slightly larger in MB (~20%) to the ONE size parameter that I set for the pagefile. I also use the free "Sandboxie" app when testing a newly installed software program, to ensure that is has no interaction with the Windows registry or the OS until I am satisfied that it is worthwhile and safe to use.
12.6.2011 19:50 #15
Originally posted by KillerBug: Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall. What are you installing from Killer ??? i use a SP1 Slipstreamed W7 and never had that issue on the ones ive done over the past weeks.
And surely if this happened you could just boot into recovery mode and tell it to re-create the boot sector .. also what the hell is the update that caused it... or are you saying it was the WGA update that installed something to the boot sector to try and detect a SLIC hack..
13.6.2011 07:14 #16
Originally posted by plazma247: Originally posted by KillerBug: Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall. What are you installing from Killer ??? i use a SP1 Slipstreamed W7 and never had that issue on the ones ive done over the past weeks.
And surely if this happened you could just boot into recovery mode and tell it to re-create the boot sector .. also what the hell is the update that caused it... or are you saying it was the WGA update that installed something to the boot sector to try and detect a SLIC hack.. It won't always be able to recover the boot sector or corrupt system partition and could take hours to try and repair only not to be able too. And then again you could get lucky and it really does fix it. However sometimes it says it was fixed and then days down the road you find out that no there is still a problem. Life isn't always so easy or black and white.
What happend with mine was during the second stage of the update process, after rebooting, updates were trying to install when others updates were still in the install process which corrupted the drive.
13.6.2011 18:25 #17
Originally posted by Mr-Movies: Originally posted by plazma247: Originally posted by KillerBug: Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches; if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your bootsector and you have to reinstall. What are you installing from Killer ??? i use a SP1 Slipstreamed W7 and never had that issue on the ones ive done over the past weeks.
And surely if this happened you could just boot into recovery mode and tell it to re-create the boot sector .. also what the hell is the update that caused it... or are you saying it was the WGA update that installed something to the boot sector to try and detect a SLIC hack.. It won't always be able to recover the boot sector or corrupt system partition and could take hours to try and repair only not to be able too. And then again you could get lucky and it really does fix it. However sometimes it says it was fixed and then days down the road you find out that no there is still a problem. Life isn't always so easy or black and white.
What happend with mine was during the second stage of the update process, after rebooting, updates were trying to install when others updates were still in the install process which corrupted the drive. Buddy there is no way that fixing the mbr should not ever be able to correct a corrupt one, apart from when a physical fault is present... other issues may happen after this, which can also be corrected. The most time it should take is probably 15 - 20 seconds to complete.
The reason it randomly failed for you and took ages was the boot sector of your hard disk was failed or your were suffering some sort of crc defect on the disk, which should have both been thrown up if smart was on...
.. This is also after you managed to get it past probably once before it died off complete due to crc faults why it worked for a period and stopped again.
Either that or you had a master boot record virus infestation that wrote back to the boot sector.. not as uncommon as you may think....! but i dont think this was the case as you reported it took forever to re-write the mbr.
... This was the most common issue with the FAT file system as it write far to often to one place blam your file table has lost magnitisum..
;)
13.6.2011 20:49 #18
Buddy your full of it I've been doing this for longer than you been alive most probably and again you're talking out of your back side.
I can repeat the problem, REPEATABLE, which means I know what I'm talking about and that sure means you don't!
Were do these people come from? :) Another know it all you got to love it. Can you tell me why I have gas? Oh wait a minute, it's another know it all that going to save my day. LOL
13.6.2011 21:51 #19
Mate im 31, maybe your a little older, you sound it and ive been doing it since i was 7.
As for writing a master boot record check: http://windows7themes.net/how-to-fix-mbr-in-windows-7.html
and
http://www.ehow.com/how_4836283_repair-mbr-windows.html
But im sure you already know how to do that, due to various reasons, normally moving partitions around etc i need to repair or correct the boot sector, ive never seen this run past 20 seconds mate..
The size of the boot sector is not very big mate : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record
If your doing anything that takes hours on a drive your talking about processing the entire drive..
So buuuuddy, you get your repeatable fault all you want, but im pretty sure anyone else worth their salt who has ever written boot sectors on a windows platform, linux etc is going to tell you it takes seconds to write an MBR and if its taking longer you have a serious problem.
Mate I own an IT consultancy firm... thats where they come from.
And personally i find it constantly insulting that the OLD boy nature of some people who think that a long time = knows a lot or is good at it... and cant understand there maybe someone out there that knows a little more.
Anyway lets not get defensive shall we, all i was doing was offering you some real advice, you asked where i came from and now you have your answer you can tell me to disappear up my own what ever..
Peace and Love PLAzmA
PS not that i want to insult you but are you sure you not confusing fixing the boot sector with running chkdsk which on a large full drive would take hours ..
13.6.2011 22:07 #20
It's not just the MBR fool it is the drive table being corrupted you DON'T repair that MATE in 15 seconds!!!!
There is always someone that doesn't know what you may know or knows more but just because you own an IT firm doesn't make you more knowledgable either. And knowledge is learned, and more years the better so if you can't handle that then too bad. I was creating boot sectors, partition table, programming printers, puching cards for card readers, parking heads on drives before shutting down, and programming before you ever picked up a PC.
I have my own business too and I'm a EE as well but I have many other talents as well.
PS you said MBR I said corrupt disk and/or system partition, you know the 100mb partition, from the start you are the one under the misconception!
And have a good day PLAzmA,
Stevo :)
13.6.2011 22:31 #21
Nice one Steve But where did killer say corrupt file table.
Killer Said:
Hopefully this will fix the problem caused by the last set of patches, if you do a clean install and then install the patches in the order that Windows Update selects them, it screws up your BOOTSECTOR and you have to reinstall.
I wrote to his comment on where his says BOOTSECTOR which is why I asked for more information, if you managed to slip some random comment to something sort of related to the issue in there along the way... im sorry killer said bootsector ive only ever said bootsector and thats what i belive our discussion was based on, hence why ive only provided you with information relating to yes the boot sector.
As for the 100mb partition (the one with the 137k bootmgr file in it and the 8k BOOTSECT.BAK) yes i know the boot/recovery partition and ive never seen this be corrupted in anything other than a physical disk defect... although ive not tried it but in the case of very serious software corruption i just rip off the data, drop a sys prep image and dump the data back down which would take probably 2 hours or less depending on data, problem fixed, which gives me a nice fast known eta.
And i would be really surprised to learn that Microsoft released an update that chewed your file table...
Also im pretty sure that its also possible to run windows without that 100mb recovery partition:
http://itcookbook.net/blog/removing-windows-7-recovery-partition
Being able to delete it and still get into windows, means it non critical to the actual boot process, so your are the one under the misconception!
Anyway im having a good one, you to Stevo ;)
13.6.2011 23:12 #22
