Will Microsoft ride in as white knight to save Winamp from its imminent demise?

Yesterday we reported that popular media player Winamp was being shutdown by its owner AOL at the end of December.

The outpour of support for the software was great, and a petition on Change.org reached nearly 6000 signatures overnight to save the media player or at least make it open source. While many were sad the software was to be shut down, there may be an unlikely white knight; Microsoft.

Crunch is reporting that AOL and Microsoft are currently in talks for the software giant to potentially purchase Winamp along with media streaming service Shoutcast.

If the deal does not go through, the report states that AOL will announce the shut down of Shoutcast next week, as well.

AOL purchased Winamp creator Nullsoft for $80 million in 1999 but has never really cared about making the service mainstream. The software just made it to Android in 2011.

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 21 Nov 2013 21:26

Bozobub

Bad news, in that ShoutCast is definitely slated to shut down, but good news, if the white knight really saves the day...

21.11.2013 21:37 #1

Scaldari

Winamp is an Internet Icon, I would hate to see it go. I have used it off and on since at least 98'.

Account Created Saturday 12 January 2008. After 5 years I consider myself a Sr. Member no matter WHAT my post count says.

21.11.2013 22:19 #2

Bozobub

I've never used anything BUT WinAMP for audio on my PC. I can't stand the overemphasis on "libraries" that most other players rely on (although it does also support libraries). Video is another story, although WinAMP is fine for that too.

21.11.2013 22:23 #3

JamaX-7Z

JamaX

Is this not a "revo" publicity stunt ,Winamp's build a name( "branded product with a high good will name")and stil on milions of pc's,No bleepin way..........or is it.........nah......

22.11.2013 08:09 #4

s_c47

I don't see this happening. I see the source code being released before MS buys it. I could be wrong though.

Originally posted by Scaldari: Winamp is an Internet Icon, I would hate to see it go. I have used it off and on since at least 98'. How do you use it when it's off? ;)

Someone told me once that theres a right and wrong, and that punishment would come to those
who dare to cross the line.
But it must not be true for jerk-offs like you.
Maybe it takes longer to catch a total asshole.

22.11.2013 13:20 #5

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by s_c47: I don't see this happening. I see the source code being released before MS buys it. I could be wrong though.

Originally posted by Scaldari: Winamp is an Internet Icon, I would hate to see it go. I have used it off and on since at least 98'. How do you use it when it's off? ;) <----- TROLL ALERT!!

Just havin a lil fun with you there s_c47 ;)

I haven't used Winamp for some time now but I would Still hate to see it go. Would MS support it properly if they do take it over or would it be better off as an Open Source app? I don't know the answer but whatever happens I'd like to see it developed/maintained properly, maybe it can make a comeback as one of the top dawgs again.

22.11.2013 13:41 #6

kfir1

YES they were an ICON but sometimes it's easier to go and let others fill in the gaps. There's VLC.

22.11.2013 14:05 #7

Bozobub

VLC is terrible, except as a player for broken or incomplete files (such as previewing eMule downloads). Its internal codecs and scaling algorithms suck.

22.11.2013 14:17 #8

s_c47

Originally posted by ChappyTTV:
I haven't used Winamp for some time now but I would Still hate to see it go. Would MS support it properly if they do take it over or would it be better off as an Open Source app? I don't know the answer but whatever happens I'd like to see it developed/maintained properly, maybe it can make a comeback as one of the top dawgs again.
Hahaha. That's the first time I've ever been called a troll.

I think it would be better as open source, than a Microsoft product. But that's just my opinion, based on my experience and dislike of most MS offerings (disclosure: I use Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit).

If they were smart, they would buy it, and then release the code, in keeping with Bill Gates' philanthropy. But that would definitely not happen.

22.11.2013 16:26 #9

Mr-Movies

WinAmp was never a good platform so I definitely can see it go bye-bye... It will be another waste of money on MS's list, bad move Microsoft.

22.11.2013 19:21 #10

HonkIfYouLoveDRM

Winamp is just another brick in the wall if it goes to Microsoft.
It's definitely a shame about Shoutcast though, hopefully that at least goes open source or survives this whole ordeal.

22.11.2013 19:30 #11

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by s_c47: Originally posted by ChappyTTV:
I haven't used Winamp for some time now but I would Still hate to see it go. Would MS support it properly if they do take it over or would it be better off as an Open Source app? I don't know the answer but whatever happens I'd like to see it developed/maintained properly, maybe it can make a comeback as one of the top dawgs again.
Hahaha. That's the first time I've ever been called a troll.

I think it would be better as open source, than a Microsoft product. But that's just my opinion, based on my experience and dislike of most MS offerings (disclosure: I use Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit).

If they were smart, they would buy it, and then release the code, in keeping with Bill Gates' philanthropy. But that would definitely not happen. First time for everything friend...heheh

22.11.2013 20:17 #12

Mr-Movies

The troll thing seems to be more about disagreement then just someone always looking for a fight, it's thrown around too easily by some. Much like Fanboy is used....

22.11.2013 22:46 #13

Bozobub

Originally posted by Mr-Movies: The troll thing seems to be more about disagreement then just someone always looking for a fight, it's thrown around too easily by some. Much like Fanboy is used.... It was meant as a joke, which ChappyTTV noted in the same post ^^ .

23.11.2013 00:19 #14

s_c47

23.11.2013 03:49 #15

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by s_c47: Originally posted by Mr-Movies: The troll thing seems to be more about disagreement then just someone always looking for a fight, it's thrown around too easily by some. Much like Fanboy is used.... Relax. I'm not mad. I got it. I knew you would, your post showed your sense of humour, which I just played off of a little. Twas all in good fun and your reply showed that you got it.
I think Mr-Movies wasn't saying that he thought I was trying to start something more than he was just making a statement about the state of the use of "Troll" these days..I think. We've chatted a few times in responses over the years so I'm pretty sure he knows I'm not a stirrer of pots (unless the pot REALLY needs stirring).

Originally posted by s_c47: Hahaha. That's the first time I've ever been called a troll. FIRST!!
LOL

23.11.2013 16:04 #16

Mr-Movies

True...

23.11.2013 17:57 #17

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by Mr-Movies: True... Hey bud

Yah, I didn't read your response as a negative against me, I knew you know mine was in jest, and I certainly didn't mean to hijack the thread with it...^^
hahaha
Now that this has been put to bed and the thread has been thoroughly hijacked, GO RIDERS!!!(Crap, the system doesn't recognize Green)
Any Canucks here will know of what I speak

23.11.2013 18:33 #18

Mr-Movies

That's funny.... ;D

23.11.2013 20:03 #19

Jemborg

Has the obvious joke and friendly ribbing - yes I got it, yes funny - been trampled out of existence by explanation, apology and niceness yet? :P

"Pilot... fly this thread to Cuba!"

...In the meantime I loved the Winamp visualisations. I used to install the bugger just for that.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

24.11.2013 00:47 #20

donnerer

A pity in a way, I bought a licence and used it for a while for everything audio, even sometimes as a ripper and converter when I wasn't too particular about the result, but it got over complicated, and I dropped it for Foobar.
Same way as I'd dropped Real Player for WinAmp.
Sorry to see it go ? - Yes - Better it went Open Source.
God forbid MS should seriously take it up, but it couldn't be much worse than Windows Media Player, could it ?
(I use Media Player Classic and/or VLC for Video, mostly MPC Home Cinema)

Still use XP, but Windows 8 at last convincd me of the value of Linux Mint Petra Cinnamon..........
I believe in the freedom to use software and the internet without being tracked everywhere I go.......

24.11.2013 05:41 #21

Mr-Movies

Nothing wrong with MediaPlayer, nothing extreme that is as it does have it's faults. Random play is a joke with MP as one example. But VLC can be a decent alternative however it too has its faults as well. It's been my experience with most if not all players that there are issues and it is a matter of what you can live with the most. That is why I use a handful of different media players on a daily basis, MPC however isn't one of them, not that it is bad though.

It is for the reason you touched on that MS bought them out, more features for expanding their own MP/MC, I hope it is worth the money for the source code/licensing rights they may gain.

24.11.2013 06:40 #22

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by Jemborg: Has the obvious joke and friendly ribbing - yes I got it, yes funny - been trampled out of existence by explanation, apology and niceness yet? :P

"Pilot... fly this thread to Cuba!"

Ok, what's your deal Jem...just itchin for a digital fight obviously, you got it dude. No more Mr Nice-Guy
8)

Hey bro, can't go to Cuba today, it`s Grey Cup day here in the Hometown and our Hometown team is in it, I`m going and I`m gonna get just a little bit happy and party as we win the Cup. It`s gonna be EPIC!!

Back to Winamp, ya, the Visualizations were pretty good but I use a variety of players these days. Foobar runs my audio thru an Asus Xonar Essence STX and out to my Home Theatre system and I use MPC and VLC for video I run on my machine. Otherwise I burn to DVD with ConvertX and go that route.
I`m very big on the Shark Codec pack which I hear doesn`t play well with Winamp so I doubt I`ll be going back to it any day soon.

Time to get ready for the game, this City is set to explode later and I`m gonna be there, can`t wait!!

24.11.2013 14:12 #23

Mrguss

Comparison of audio player:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_player_software

Downloads:
https://www.techsupportalert.com/conten...ers.htm#Jaangle

+5000

24.11.2013 17:41 #24

Mr-Movies

Chappy it really isn't worth it with Jemborg you're just wasting your time as I've been down that road before, a freight train of facts wouldn't make a difference... He's just Trolling.... LOL

Hope it's Epic! Cheers!!

I'll have to play with MusicBee that looks pretty nice!

24.11.2013 17:50 #25

Mrguss

Yup: MusicBee is the man!

P.S.
Winamp as a good chance to be an open source, since AOL already did open source of Wasabi (10yrs. ago) with the Z-lib (BSD-style); and they could open source more code.

+5000

24.11.2013 19:14 #26

Jemborg

Have a good one Chappy, here's hoping you taste the sweet mead of victory instead of the ashes of defeat today.

Asus Xonar Essence STX hey! ...so that's worth it?

Since we are on the subject of players... The latest VLC v2.1 (and above) is failing to pass-thru digital!!!!!

Something has happened and I guess I'll have to head to their forums to find out what it is. :/

I had to go back to VLC v2.0.8 to get back the "A/32 over S/PDIF" option which you need to select if you want to pass DD5.1 etc. over coax/toslink/hdmi to your receiver: Audio> Audio Devices> S/PDIF

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

24.11.2013 20:17 #27

ChappyTTV

OK guys, it's a damn good thing that I'm typing this as I have nothing left for a voice today, I don't think "Insane" is a big enough adjective for what happened here last night.
Riders just went to work and did what this team was built to do, win it all in Rider Nation!
31-6 @ halftime, 45-23 final & the party didn't end till the wee hours.
We have an area that's called The Green Mile going down the centre street of the City, and in a weird twist Tom Hanks was at the game with Martin Short, albeit cheering for the wrong team, but they both hit the Green Mile to take in the party...it was ironically cool.

And Jem, yes it was worth it. The card has a sweet response throughout the entire range and does make a difference with a quality FLAC file. I swapped out some Opamps to get a smoother sound in the high ranges. I used the LME49720's in the I/V spots and an LM6172 in the buffer.
I got it partially to run thru my Sennheiser HD595 cans, which come to life with the built-in amp on the card, but overall this card performs flawlessly.

I gotta rest some more, I think the entire City & Province took today off, we need more time to recover...WOOT!!

25.11.2013 15:41 #28

Mr-Movies

Sennhesier makes good headphones no doubt, the US Military and most of aviation use them as well. I'd much rather crank up a good amp and speakers myself, although I did have some induced noise with a poor power source and different ground planes to deal with, but cleared that up with a good power conditioner and a high quality isolation transformer buffering the RCA's so my noise floor is now studio quality. Now all I need to do is get a good mic preamp with some bells and whistles and I'll be set for live music, karaoke, studio reproduction, or even compressed music even though it doesn't meet my performance levels, however with little noise it isn't bad. Crown XLS's is my neighborhood among other gear. Love music too....

Congrats Chappy....

25.11.2013 19:14 #29

Mrguss

Amp. QSC (Cristal clear sound) over Crown (Power).
Speakers: Electro-Voice (1927) over JBL (1946).

If your Sound System is Good:
You can talk-listen to another person right in-front on the speakers when are playing at high volume.

+5000

26.11.2013 19:53 #30

Jemborg

Congrats on the win Chappy.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

26.11.2013 21:55 #31

bertf

I use Shoutcast every day. Is there another way of finding these wonderfully idiosyncratic stations anywhere else?

27.11.2013 03:28 #32

Mrguss

Try Musicbee.
The only downside from (ShoutCast-Winamp) is the lack to stream from it, less stations to choose from & less skins.
(ULTRA is my fav. For Alternative Rock, no ads).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ryIctU8A0

IceCast: http://dir.xiph.org/index.php

+5000

27.11.2013 16:21 #33

Mr-Movies

Originally posted by Mrguss: Amp. QSC (Cristal clear sound) over Crown (Power).
Speakers: Electro-Voice (1927) over JBL (1946).

If your Sound System is Good:
You can talk-listen to another person right in-front on the speakers when are playing at high volume. It would depend on the volume (decibels)output as to what you could hear from a conversation right in front of your speakers NO MATTER how good of a system you have. I won't knock QSC but I'll stay with my XLS over a QSC amp. I do love the old EV's they are definitely sweet speakers, I use to have several and I had old RTR towers with the plug in the wall Electrostatic Tweeters too as well as many other older good stuff.

I love MusicBee they are really good and will become my preferred player for audio.

27.11.2013 18:40 #34

Mrguss

Cheer!
I gonna try one Crown: I-Tech HD.

+5000

27.11.2013 19:28 #35

bertf

Originally posted by Mrguss: Try Musicbee.
The only downside from (ShoutCast-Winamp) is the lack to stream from it, less stations to choose from & less skins.
(ULTRA is my fav. For Alternative Rock, no ads).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ryIctU8A0

IceCast: http://dir.xiph.org/index.php Thanks, I'll give those a look.

28.11.2013 05:09 #36

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by Jemborg: Congrats on the win Chappy. Thanx my friend!

Originally posted by Mr-Movies: Sennhesier makes good headphones no doubt, the US Military and most of aviation use them as well. I'd much rather crank up a good amp and speakers myself, although I did have some induced noise with a poor power source and different ground planes to deal with, but cleared that up with a good power conditioner and a high quality isolation transformer buffering the RCA's so my noise floor is now studio quality. Now all I need to do is get a good mic preamp with some bells and whistles and I'll be set for live music, karaoke, studio reproduction, or even compressed music even though it doesn't meet my performance levels, however with little noise it isn't bad. Crown XLS's is my neighborhood among other gear. Love music too....

Congrats Chappy.... Also Thanx my friend!

My top line Onkyo gear got stolen from a storage unit a few years ago and the insurance company I had screwed me over & didn't cover it. The circumstances were a little weird so they had a 3rd party investigator check it out and he validated the claim and recommended they pay out, but they still declined it. Needles to say I was pissed (so was the investigator)& I haven't gotten around to replacing them yet.
This card tho, does a very admirable job going thru my home theater system, Logitech Z-5500 with Nuance speakers in place of the little Logi speakers, which I use 3 of for my centre channel. While Nuance speakers didn't live up to the hype when they first arrived, they still are a pretty decent speaker and can handle some serious volume.
I've been a musician since I was 6 and have also done sound engineering for 4 bands, so I guess you can say I also love my music (Classic Rock).

I've d'loaded MusicBee to see what it's got, let's see if it becomes my go-to player.

Later folks!

30.11.2013 16:23 #37

Mr-Movies

I use a Yamaha front end with Crown XLS 2500 amps, Klipsch Horn speakers with Klipsch LaScalla's and Klipsch KLF 20's as reinforcement surrounds with a Klipsch SC3 center plus I'm building bass reflex Eminence 12in with Selenium Professional Horn Drivers (Tweeter/Midrange). I also have Klipsch 12" Subs as well as some Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer's 4 Ohm that I'm also building. I have Mixing boards, a Karaoke system professional, several different mic's based around Shure M58's & SM58's, I do need a better mic preamp and I could use a sound effects board but I have almost a full small studio.

I dabble just a little bit with audio but not as much as the average kid does these days, right! LOL

30.11.2013 18:29 #38

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by Mr-Movies: I use a Yamaha front end with Crown XLS 2500 amps, Klipsch Horn speakers with Klipsch LaScalla's and Klipsch KLF 20's as reinforcement surrounds with a Klipsch SC3 center plus I'm building bass reflex Eminence 12in with Selenium Professional Horn Drivers (Tweeter/Midrange). I also have Klipsch 12" Subs as well as some Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer's 4 Ohm that I'm also building. I have Mixing boards, a Karaoke system professional, several different mic's based around Shure M58's & SM58's, I do need a better mic preamp and I could use a sound effects board but I have almost a full small studio.

I dabble just a little bit with audio but not as much as the average kid does these days, right! LOL Holy shite batman...that's an expensive little setup you have there! I used to have LasCallas at one time as well, they've been around for some time now, very nice speakers. I like Klipsch gear.
I haven't had a "super setup" like that for some time, I had to sell my last one after my divorce in 97. I probably miss my TEAC A3440 the most, followed closely my American Acoustic Labs speakers. Big-ass boxes with a 15" sub, 2-8" horns and 4-3" tweeters per box, in a hardshell case with front covers, big metal handles and metal corners because we also used them as stage monitors at one time. They had a very demanding presence (and power requirement) but also a 20' projection so you needed a big room for them to perform at their best.

I'd LOVE to come by and help play with your gear there MM, it's been awhile since I've played with a good mixer and the system to make it all work.

30.11.2013 22:14 #39

Mr-Movies

I miss my reel-to-reels too I had both Akia's GX's and TEAC's. I also had several EV's Voice of the theaters, RTR towers with the plug into the wall electrostatic tweeter among many other toys. It looks like you too had some good toys I don't know what I'd do with out my audio gear, love good sound environments but I've also worked with a lot of musicians over the years too, not so much now unfortunately and used to play and sing years ago but the old voice isn't what it use to be when I was a kid. Ya I wish you could come over I'm sure we would like similar music and could have a good time.

30.11.2013 23:53 #40

Mrguss

TEAC is public & TASCAM is the pro brand.

I use TASCAM for recording CD-RW's & CD-R's.
As a DJ. should I upgrade to: !?
http://tascam.com/product/cd-rw901sl/

My next step is recording DVD-RW's & DVD-R's.

+5000

2.12.2013 19:46 #41

Mr-Movies

TEAC was Pro too, actually in the day TEAC was premier gear, top of the line. TEAC isn't obviously what they were a couple decades ago just like Marantz & Harman Kardon isn't either

That Tascam looks pretty good and I like the pitch adjust feature too so I could see buying one of those but I would probably goes with one of their master recorders like the DA-3000 or the HS-4000.

Here is a picture of the old Akai GX-230D I had many years ago.
Akai GX-230D
You'll find it mid-way down the page.

2.12.2013 20:40 #42

ChappyTTV

Originally posted by Mrguss: TEAC is public & TASCAM is the pro brand.

I use TASCAM for recording CD-RW's & CD-R's.
As a DJ. should I upgrade to: !?
http://tascam.com/product/cd-rw901sl/

My next step is recording DVD-RW's & CD-R's. The TEAC A3440 4 Channel Simulsync was standard fare in many a recording studio back in the 70's & 80's, including mine. I just wish I had all the tapes from those days still, I don't even really know what the hell happened to them...
The recordings from my own band(s) would be awesome to listen to now, we were pretty darn good if I must say so myself. Sure miss those days and the groupies that came with the job...LOL

3.12.2013 00:11 #43

Mr-Movies

All of my 7" & 10" tapes started to fall apart after a decade or so of use and sitting. The magnetic bias would just peel off, which was sad since I had a ton of music that I lost and party tapes gone. I did have a TEAC 4ch too, I forget the model # off hand, and we used it for recording in a friends basement who I grew up with. I also used it with some good bands like The Daisy Dillman Band and a few others. I'm with you on the old days. ;D

3.12.2013 06:41 #44

Mrguss

I remember those TEAC reel-to-reel when my friends & I open our first discotheque in my town (70's - 80's). We use to buy the mix tapes (Reels) from a well known Disco.

In the 80's. I start doing my own mix-tapes; in 2000 I start mixing CD's. & now is almost time to start mixing DVD's.

I know: I'm behind many DJ's & VJ's. But for me mixing is just a hobby.

+5000

3.12.2013 18:05 #45

Mr-Movies

I think you should thing Blu-ray and skip DVD as the time spread would be like/better then the old reel-to-reels were in the day. You can get a lot of music on a Blu-ray with sample rates of 192KHz, great fidelity and long play, the best of both worlds. Love music! Like Chappy...

3.12.2013 22:08 #46

Mrguss

Agree:
I thought it awhile ago, just like in the 80's when I decide to get CD's as a source in stead of tapes.

Now is time to make the jump to BR as a source and skip DVD's.
Good thing that I only have 100- DVD's on music video clips.

Next:
http://tascam.com/product/bd-r2000/

+5000

4.12.2013 18:41 #47

Bozobub

The main caveat there is, BD-Rs are more expensive, byte-for-byte, than hard drives currently are, and are FAR slower than HDs. A 25-pack of 50GB Blu-Ray blank disks costs $65-80, depending on manufacturer and distributor, for a total of 1.25TB of storage. I know for a fact that 2TB+ external HDs currently run for the exact same price range. Just check out Newegg, especially their newsletter discounts, if you don't believe me; they recently offered a 3GB external for $89. BD-RWs are FAR more expensive than BR-Rs, as well.

You quite literally can archive external HDs for less and gain faster access/write times; they are fully erasable/rewritable AND take up less space, to boot (for an equivalent amount of storage). HDs also don't require the acquisition of a separate BD burner, which will ALSO cost nearly as much as an external HD - lol.

Quite a few recent receivers/"media center" boxes support external HDs, whether by USB or ethernet, as well.

Edit --> Ugh, kept using "GB" instead of "TB"...

4.12.2013 18:49 #48

Mrguss

Agree.

But I think the mayor problem I face is that original video clips on BD are not many & I'm no-fan of live concerts on video or audio.

Get streamed MPEG4 videos to my hard drive (no DRM but with a watermark) is no bad. But is no greater that the real physical disc.
PromoOnly-Pool

+5000

4.12.2013 20:07 #49

Mr-Movies

Originally posted by Mrguss: Agree:
I thought it awhile ago, just like in the 80's when I decide to get CD's as a source in stead of tapes.

Now is time to make the jump to BR as a source and skip DVD's.
Good thing that I only have 100- DVD's on music video clips.

Next:
http://tascam.com/product/bd-r2000/ That is your best bet and you can still use flash drives and memory sticks as well. I'm also interested in the HS-4000/HS-8/DA-3000 units too.

4.12.2013 20:15 #50

Jemborg

Originally posted by Bozobub: The main caveat there is, BD-Rs are more expensive, byte-for-byte, than hard drives currently are, and are FAR slower than HDs. A 25-pack of 50GB Blu-Ray blank disks costs $65-80, depending on manufacturer and distributor, for a total of 1.25GB of storage. I know for a fact that 2GB+ external HDs currently run for the exact same price range. Just check out Newegg, especially their newsletter discounts, if you don't believe me; they recently offered a 3GB external for $89. BD-RWs are FAR more expensive than BR-Rs, as well.

You quite literally can archive external HDs for less and gain faster access/write times; they are fully erasable/rewritable AND take up less space, to boot (for an equivalent amount of storage). HDs also don't require the acquisition of a separate BD burner, which will ALSO cost nearly as much as an external HD - lol.

Quite a few recent receivers/"media center" boxes support external HDs, whether by USB or ethernet, as well. Well you might as well double up on those HDDs and data Bozo because the ONLY media I've found to be reliable are USB sticks.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

4.12.2013 22:35 #51

Bozobub

Even flash memory eventually fails, you know, after extensive use. NOTHING is permanent. CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays can delaminate after 5-15 years (greatly varying by conditions stored in and manufacturer), for example.

Remember, I'm responding to people who are already speaking about BD-Rs. For cost:storage (and cost:cubic volume taken), there's no comparison; the opticals lose. For resistance to damage, the jury is out; BOTH HDs and BDs are vulnerable in different ways.

USB sticks are a LOT - like 15-25x - more expensive than either optical or HD storage, by cost:bytes stored. Yes, they are quite a bit more durable, but how many people can afford a huge collection of high-capacity USB sticks? Currently, a SanDisk 32GB stick costs roughly $60, FFS! It's true that most people wouldn't need to use more then 5-10 32GB sticks, unless they keep mostly FLAC tracks and or a huge amount of music, but we are talking about audiophiles here, you know?

5.12.2013 00:34 #52

Jemborg

Fair enough :) ... I'm not really recommending flash sticks here Bozo... except for important documents and pictures and vids maybe. I've never known one to fail... yet. I've had them go through the wash and they've still come out ok.

I actually agree with you. I would use HDDs over recording with BD-Rs. I'm just saying if the data is really important to you then make sure you back it up elsewhere like another HDD (which admittedly adds to the costs).

PS: $60!!! where do you go man? I can score a SanDisk 64GB locally for about that price! http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

PSS: I used to have Denon and Kef stuff back in the day myself.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

5.12.2013 01:07 #53

Bozobub

*shrug* That was off a quick Google search. I didn't even check Newegg.

Frankly, if the data is that important, and isn't overly "sensitive", cloud storage is probably the best current alternative, if you have good enough internet bandwidth.

5.12.2013 01:57 #54

Mr-Movies

Lot of if's.........

5.12.2013 06:29 #55

Bozobub

Originally posted by Mr-Movies: Lot of if's.........
Agreed. That's why it wasn't my initial suggestion.

It boils down to this: If you want high-density storage for your media, you really have only two choices: HDs or flash storage (either as USB sticks or one or more flash drives). USB sticks are more portable and very tough, but also very expensive by the byte, external flash drives (SSDs) are still pretty expensive and have a set lifespan, but are far more reasonable than USB sticks for cost, and HDs have the best cost per byte.

What would I do? For home use, I'd set up a NAS (Network Attached Storage) on my network, and install a RAID 5 or RAID 10 hot-swappable HD array. It's the standard in IT for a reason. If any given HD (or multiple HDs, with the proper RAID setup) fails, you simply buy another HD, swap it out, and drive on; your data is intact. It's probably the best price/reliability compromise. If you need portable playback, you can always use a single good-sized USB stick and change out the contents when necessary.

5.12.2013 11:33 #56

Mrguss

I going to go with:
http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-BD-R2000-H...recorder+player
&
http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-97457-Bl...+ray+blank+disc

25 BR-R for $25 is no bad.

1.- Remember since I own all the video-clips: I don't need high-density storage (Cloud or double or triple layer BR disc to record/store one song at the time, like most people do).
2.- I also don't need BR-RW's 'cos usually on my second (80 mins.) "mix-try" the mix are coming perfect. non-edit needed. So yes I can trash my first $1 BR-R "test" 'cos I'm confident that my second "Test" will be my "Master".

I gonna start mixing regular DVD's into BR's for now, 'til I get original video-clips on BR's to use as a source.
Hope by then; Pioneer start making VJ Turntables that support BR's.

The "BVJ-X1"
DJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULA8Q1djn4w
VJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmf6jQTm5y0

+5000

5.12.2013 18:32 #57

Mr-Movies

That has to be coming next. That Pioneer board is sick, how many overlays can it do in real time? Looks like plenty. That's a good deal on Amazon. If Christmas and one of my sisters didn't hit me hard I might think about the BD-R2000 although I really need to get a couple or more of the Crown XLS 2500's.

Way to go Mrguss!

5.12.2013 19:17 #58

Bozobub

Again, you're looking at 650GB total storage for $25; that still ends up more expensive, by the byte, than HDs.

5.12.2013 19:20 #59

Mr-Movies

Again you wouldn't understand.

5.12.2013 19:30 #60

Mrguss

Originally posted by Bozobub: Again, you're looking at 650GB total storage for $25; that still rends up more expensive, by the byte, than HDs. Is the price a DJ &/or VJ pay for it, just to have a little fun out there.
Any real musician will tell you the same thing.
My biggest problem is that I play almost all kind of music.

A hobby is like a passion or addiction.
I guess is like the real video-gamers feel for it, etc.

DJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMB-QqQpZ2o
VJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9T3Kxqh_zA

+5000

5.12.2013 19:41 #61

Mr-Movies

He doesn't get how you are using it, as you said you'd have to be a musician to understand, and that's hitting the nail on the head squarely.

I'm envious myself.

5.12.2013 19:57 #62

Bozobub

No, I get it. Snob factor FTL =) . You're just stuck on the format. And no, not a single VJ board supports BRs (yet, funny enough, most of them support external HDs - lol). Furthermore, you can duplicate most, if not all, of the functions of one of those systems with a laptop running WinAMP and Milkdrop.

You need to decide whether you're doing this for portability, durability, or capacity/cost per byte (you can pick any two). Point of fact, BD-Rs are inferior in each of those categories. Nor is there a single usage, where BD-Rs can be used but none of the other options can be.

5.12.2013 21:03 #63

Mr-Movies

WinAMP really, that says a lot, but like I've said before, it isn't worth arguing with a broken record. Although you have some good points, and I was well aware of them long before you reiterated them. You are not totally correct and I'll leave it at that, since it is an obvious waste of time.

5.12.2013 22:58 #64

Bozobub

If you don't put forth your counterpoints, you are merely insisting. You have not produced one actual counterpoint. Sorry, but that does not define truth, it defines you as smug and self-satisfied.

I know for a fact that a good number of DJs/VJs actually DO use WinAMP + Milkdrop. No, it doesn't have quite as many functions as some dedicated systems, but it's also *cough* free.

Again, be as elitist as you like. That's a quite common audiophile trait. So is paying far too much for exceedingly shaky tech, at times =3 . The number of orgasmic audiophile reviews on those things... Amazingly funny.

Even if you want to do shows, a large external drive currently is FAR more useful than any Blu-Ray setup, sorry, and is also significantly less expensive and more portable to boot. Even many (if not most) of the "Pro" consoles and rack systems support USB (and often ethernet) storage, and for damn good reason. Your snark will not negate these facts in the slightest.

5.12.2013 23:22 #65

Bozobub

*double post*

5.12.2013 23:22 #66

Jemborg

Originally posted by Bozobub: What would I do? For home use, I'd set up a NAS (Network Attached Storage) on my network, and install a RAID 5 or RAID 10 hot-swappable HD array. It's the standard in IT for a reason. If any given HD (or multiple HDs, with the proper RAID setup) fails, you simply buy another HD, swap it out, and drive on; your data is intact. It's probably the best price/reliability compromise. If you need portable playback, you can always use a single good-sized USB stick and change out the contents when necessary. That's nice but it's not as cheap as you make out. (And if you you use archive HDDs then double the price.)

At 4 cents a GB the BluRay disks are cheaper... but not by a whole lot.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

6.12.2013 05:56 #67

Mr-Movies

It's not worth it Jem....

6.12.2013 06:35 #68

Bozobub

Originally posted by Jemborg: Originally posted by Bozobub: What would I do? For home use, I'd set up a NAS (Network Attached Storage) on my network, and install a RAID 5 or RAID 10 hot-swappable HD array. It's the standard in IT for a reason. If any given HD (or multiple HDs, with the proper RAID setup) fails, you simply buy another HD, swap it out, and drive on; your data is intact. It's probably the best price/reliability compromise. If you need portable playback, you can always use a single good-sized USB stick and change out the contents when necessary. That's nice but it's not as cheap as you make out. (And if you you use archive HDDs then double the price.)

At 4 cents a GB the BluRay disks are cheaper... but not by a whole lot.

An $89 3TB HD (sale price, but relatively easy to find, as an internal drive, and often as an external) has a cost of just slightly under 3 cents a GB. No, BRs are NOT cheaper, as I've been trying to explain to you. The external HD also takes up far less space than your BRs.

6.12.2013 12:26 #69

Jemborg

MY BRs! lol

I don't actually disagree with you in general Boz except on your over optimistic pricing. You're out by 1TB. And that's still not counting the archive or NAS version HDDs...

http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

Heck, I just had yet another HDD failure to deal with today!

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

6.12.2013 16:21 #70

Bozobub

Originally posted by Jemborg: MY BRs! lol

I don't actually disagree with you in general Boz except on your over optimistic pricing. You're out by 1TB. And that's still not counting the archive or NAS version HDDs...

http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

Heck, I just had yet another HDD failure to deal with today!

I still have a 3TB USB 3.0 drive from the Newegg newsletter for $89 in my inbox. That price has come by every so often for a while, now. That's the example I've been using.

6.12.2013 16:26 #71

Mrguss

Originally posted by Bozobub: ...You're just stuck on the format.
It's not limit on formats to choose from. I just choose the best I think it's the best format out there for now.

Originally posted by Bozobub: ...most VJ board supports external HDs - lol).
Actually DJ's & VJ's are going Cloud! 'cos most players today are supporting WI-Fi.

Originally posted by Bozobub: you can duplicate... with a laptop running WinAMP and Milkdrop.
1.- I'm not one of those "Laptops DJ's"
2.- Most "Pro-Laptop-Dj's" use: Traktor or Rekord-Box.
3.- I consider all those "Laptop DJ's" playing Low Quality MP3's as just and simple Amateurs.

Originally posted by Bozobub: You need to decide whether you're doing this for portability, durability, or capacity/cost per byte
Actually non of them: I just want to make Masters.

Originally posted by Bozobub: Point of fact, BD-Rs are inferior in each of those categories. Nor is there a single usage, where BD-Rs can be used but none of the other options can be.
Wrong.

The fact that VJ's players don't support BR's Yet is because the same thing that happen to CD's replaced by Low Quality MP3's [More profits for the sealers]. I say: PROFITS: a corporate thinking.
Is the same thing; happening to the DVD's going into low quality MPEG4 that you can download for free on you-tube or else.

But always it gonna be THE PRO people: Who want & choose the best format for wherever reason they have.

These Pro people don't care much about comparing prices. They just want the best.
That is why: always will be Public & Pro Recording Brands to choose from.

P.S.
Singing Karaoke or playing Guitar Hero DO-NOT make you a PRO!
lol.

+5000

7.12.2013 18:36 #72

Bozobub

- Cloud storage only works if you have sufficient bandwidth available. NOT a universal solution, by any means.

- No one but you has mentioned mp3s or mp4s. FLAC, for example, is lossless beyond, of course, the inevitable sampling loss from converting analog to digital, but ALL digital formats will share at least this flaw.

- If you want to make masters, FLAC (or a similar lossless codec, if you prefer) is the way to go, once again. No CD or DVD-audio format can compare, sorry.

- Even mp3s, at a high enough bitrate and sampling frequency, can be superior to CDs. Are you unaware that redbook (CD) audio is also a digital, LOSSY format?

- The "Pro" decks don't support BRs, simply because the format is already pretty much obsolete, until/unless the 250GB disks come out for commercial use AND are affordable, which is definitely not a given.

- You are the only one who mentioned karaoke or Guitar Hero.

If you were worried only about "the best", that would make sense, except nothing about BRs is, in fact, "the best", except perhaps their aerodynamics when used as a frisbee or ranged weapon. Once again, you're relying on perceived snoot factor vs. actual value or functionality.

7.12.2013 22:51 #73

Mr-Movies

Good for you Mrguss,but as you can see here comes the Bozo one more time so hopully you can see it is a waste of time trying to help him see the light. but good try and you hit it square for the most part.

Way to go...

8.12.2013 00:07 #74

Bozobub

Again, actual counterpoints or you fail. Snide insinuation is not debate, sorry.

8.12.2013 00:30 #75

Mrguss

Originally posted by Bozobub: ...Cloud storage only works if you have sufficient bandwidth available. NOT a universal solution, by any means.
Have fun playing 20 million songs via Cloud:
http://www.partycloud.fm/3136712+23019774

Originally posted by Bozobub: No one but you has mentioned mp3s or mp4s. FLAC, for example, is lossless beyond, of course, the inevitable sampling loss from converting analog to digital, but ALL digital formats will share at least this flaw.
...If you want to make masters, FLAC (or a similar lossless codec, if you prefer) is the way to go, once again. No CD or DVD-audio format can compare, sorry.
...Even mp3s, at a high enough bitrate and sampling frequency, can be superior to CDs. Are you unaware that redbook (CD) audio is also a digital, LOSSY format?
Welcome to WAV & AIFF at 24bit = 256x better that a CD (Audio)
4K Stream or BR (Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24QRUEgX1rI

Originally posted by Bozobub: The "Pro" decks don't support BRs, simply because the format is already pretty much obsolete, until/unless the 250GB disks come out for commercial use AND are affordable, which is definitely not a given.
2008: 16-layer 400GB BR Discs:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Pioneer-...0GB-89331.shtml
2010: 32-layers 1TB BR Disc:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/di...u_Ray_Disc.html
2012: 2TB BR Disc:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/di...ical_Discs.html
2013: R.I.P. Blu-Ray ...via Bozobub :(

Originally posted by Bozobub: ...If you were worried only about "the best", that would make sense, except nothing about BRs is, in fact, "the best", except perhaps their aerodynamics when used as a frisbee or ranged weapon. Once again, you're relying on perceived snoot factor vs. actual value or functionality. If I going into your world I guess all the Movie & Music makers should start using hard disk drive (HDD) to record them !?
lol !

+5000

8.12.2013 20:32 #76

Bozobub

And how much you paying for those large Blu-Rays, hmm? lol

Oh, and guess Hhat? hard drives ARE the most common storage throughout Hollywood. Backups, if they're smart, wil be via many media.

8.12.2013 21:51 #77

Mrguss

Hollywood & TV Stations on Media Recording usage as 2012:

1.- SSD (Solid-State Memory, Flash memory, AKA thumb drives)
2.- Videotape
3.- HDD (Hard Disk Drives)
4.- Optical Discs
5.- Film

SSD since the 50's
Flash Memory since the 80's

-Flash cost 3x per bit than drives. That is why many Computers makers still using HDD. We also saw many hybrids. Today SSD are more common in laptops & desktop, but cost more.
-SSD's faster than Hybrids & HDD's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPFp2F-GIDM
-Flash Consume 80% less energy that drives.
-Flash is the most used on Big-Data centers 'cos use less cooling energy & (Tier 0) have a high data transfer rates.
-SSD's as higher shock resistance & portability.
-Flash memory chips are used in tablets, notebook, smart phones, USB sticks & SSDs.
-Good choice for your everyday data storage needs.
-Around 200 companies are making SSDs.

But:
-Data does wear out the more times you write to it.
-Debatable life span.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

+5000

9.12.2013 18:36 #78

Jemborg

This has all been very informative.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

10.12.2013 04:09 #79

Mr-Movies

Good job Guss!

10.12.2013 06:26 #80

Mrguss

YW :)

Next:
Universal memory:

1.- SSD's with MRAM.- Lower power consumption, faster & no data degradation over time, Will replace SRAM, DRAM (volatile RAM), EEPROM & flash memory.

2.- Optical Disc with embedded "MRAM" (This time call it: PRAM Phase-change RAM) like:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/patent...ddvd,16601.html
...provably for holographic BR Disc or else!?
The idea is old (80's) "used" on the mini magneto optical disc.

lol
The #2 was my personal Sci-Fi Stun of the day.

+5000

11.12.2013 16:44 #81

Jemborg

Cheers again.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

11.12.2013 20:47 #82

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