AfterDawn: News

UK Xbox boss takes shots at PS3

UK Xbox boss Neil Thompson has taken a verbal jab at Sony's PlayStation 3 by attacking the system’s hefty price tag and Blu-ray functionality.

Thompson also completely dismissed the idea that the 360 was inferior because of the PlayStation 3's in-built Blu-ray drive.

"Do I want to make people pay £200 extra for a machine with discs that have storage space I don’t need? My answer’s no, I don’t need to do that today," Thompson said. "And I don’t think I’m going to need to do that for quite a while."



Thompson argued that the 360 is more flexible and allows users to upgrade at their choosing, not have to pay extra for a format they may not care about. He also believed that flexibility was the key to the console's success in the future. "I’m not sure the market has moved to high definition [movies] yet," he said.

"And if and when it does, then the way that we’ve constructed the offering we’ve made means we’ll be able to go whichever way we want."

The inclusion of a Blu-ray drive in every stock PlayStation 3 is one of the reasons for its hefty price tag but it does allow you to play high definition movies right out of the box. You must buy an HD-DVD add-on to be able to play HD dvds on an Xbox 360.

Thompson had alot to say about the argument that the technology of a 360 was not up to par with that of the PlayStation 3 and the fact that Sony officials claim that Blu-Ray is necessary to give game makers freedom of space.

"I’d be really surprised if technologically, and we’re a software company, we couldn’t get to a situation where we can deliver whatever content we need to," He added that "improved compression techniques and the ability to deliver content via Xbox Live would negate any disc storage issues in the future."

"This is about the architecture of the hardware. With the PS3 you’ve got a big, heavy truck that requires a big, heavy engine. With Xbox you’ve got a much more nimble box that uses software in the architecture of the box in a much more nimble way."

He concluded, "That’s the difference between us and PlayStation - we didn’t have a need to develop a really complicated engine to get Blu-ray players into the market. We wanted to deliver HD gaming. Judge us on what we’ve done."

Source:
Gamesindustry.biz

Written by: Andre Yoskowitz @ 26 Mar 2007 18:26

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• 39 comments

• Unfocused

  “Blu-Ray is necessary to give game makers freedom of space.”
  
  Is this a good thing? Back in the days of coding in Pascal, you wanted your code to be as trim as possible because it had to be. The more or less unlimited resource machine didn’t exist. Programmers had to be creative in how the compiled and executed their lines of code.
  
  With the advent of larger hard drives and memory sizes that are so big that they weren’t even a fantasy 25 years ago, doesn’t this just encourage sloppy code writing?
  
  I realize that much has changed in the programming world in the past 25 years, but doesn’t the old “KISS” adage still hold true?
  
  I won’t deny the benefits of the new technologies especially in the realm of gaming, but have we gotten to the point where thinking about your operating environment is a thing of the past?

  26.3.2007 19:56 #1

• Hopium

  crunched and compressed code means it executes and does its job, if its bloated code it has more chances of bugs, so streamlined code is good for gaming if you can't fit a game on a duel layer dvd its cause you have WAY TO MANY CINEMAS, and not enough game :D. the only reason Blu-ray would be good is if you like watching your games and not playing them :P
  
  m$ keeping dvd as their medium is actually good for hardc0re gamers, who like to play games and not watch them.

  26.3.2007 20:16 #2

• chickenR

  I agree with Microsoft's stance on the 360. Sure, High Def movies are out over in the UK, but I can't really see them taking off for a while, especially as it took DVD a fair time to fully replace VHS.
  
  DVD Recorders have only really become popular/affordable in the last year as well, so most people will probably be reluctant to buy a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player already.

  26.3.2007 22:44 #3

• BIGnewb

  Microsoft is yet again taking cheap shots a the playstation 3.it never stops.why are they being such babies?let playstation do it's thing and will see soon who's the better console company.looking at the xbox vs. the ps2, the ps2 took that one(free online gaming,slim design,etc.)

  27.3.2007 01:42 #4

• mortalze

  HD games means highres visuals right. So then why is it not a good idea to have more room for these huge image/video files for your game? I agree that it could be a means for slopy coders to slack off, but imagine more room for concise coders. Wouldn't that be good for them? That could let them be free to make huge games full of great content.
  I for one am sick of the worthless games that have been flooding the market just so some lazy game company can make a few bucks. I don't know why people shun better technology. Why not make a good long lasting upgrade. Small upgrades more often is more costly and uasually less effective as far as technology goes. Those kind of upgrades are usually just money pits. It's all just my opinion though.

  27.3.2007 04:00 #5

• georgeluv

  Quote:And if and when it does, then the way that we’ve constructed the offering we’ve made means we’ll be able to go whichever way we want.not so steadfast on HD DVD anymore huh? hes basicly admitting blu ray might come out the winner.
  
  i think ps3 is waaaay expensive just like every other middle class peson but look at the ps1, it cost 400 way back when it came out and it did fine. everyone is just waiting till it goes down to a reasonable price and gets some good games together, then you watch what a mockery of the xbox it will make. the free online alone is enough for me to get it over 360. and when the hard drive loader comes out... my god forget about it. basicly everyone who hasent bought a system yet is waiting for the ps3 to get cheaper cause they would have bought a 360 already cause they are already relativly cheap.

  27.3.2007 05:19 #6

• BobbyBlu

  Microsoft take shot at Sony ask me this then...
  
  Why does the 360 cost so much if it use old tech? red laser diodes???
  
  Plus why are 360 games the same price as PS3 if there are using old tech DVD9.
  
  Before they take a shot at anyone why would 360 cost more than a standard XBOX.I give Sony credit they went out on a limb to bring buyer a Nex-gen console even take a major lost on each system.I dont need M$ telling me how there system is better & Nex-Gen when there system is nothing more than a hype-up XBOX under a new hood.

  27.3.2007 05:54 #7

• ZippyDSM

  BobbyBlu
  please don't you only make my brain hurt
  
  both consoles are around the 400$ mark with the new chipset and new CPU and even new HD the price inchs high and these updates will become standered in the next revivson in 8 or so months,also don't forget MS is taking a 50-150 loss on each console sold.
  
  MS dose not need to put a next gen drive into their system for 2 reasons price and this is a game machine built around games on DVD.
  
  you cant say the PS3 is not hurting at 550 a pop ,silly delays and devs jumping ship it all adds up the 360 might be made sloppy but the PS3 is just as hashy in different ways.
  ======================================
  Back to topic the 360 dose not need a next gen player the main reason being price and its built around DVD gaming,in acouple years when drives are near 200 they might put one in as a last "model" to the 360.
  
  To me MS is talking a upgrade as you go approach they denied heating issues that was proven wrong they denied newer CPU,HD,HDMI rumors all that was proven wrong tis obvious they are trying something new in gaming a new kind of model plan where they reinvent the system every 2 years so they can keep the price higher, at the same time improve the system itself,of coarse this is what I think it could be the 360 was built so badly that they had to make a new model because the problems were to great for a simple revision :P

  27.3.2007 07:54 #8

• scorpNZ

  I am really interested in seeing just how good each console is a year or more from now once they've both sorted out the bugs in hardware issues which comes with all new tech,for now i'd have to say microsoft will have a definite advantage since they have been making software for a number of years and being that close to the hardware manufacturers for sometime they should in theory be able to tweak every ounce of grunt from the hardware and make the 360 extremely efficient ,on paper the PS3 appears a little more grunty but on paper if i was in a 1000hp f1 car and michael schumacker was in a 800hp f1 car on paper it would appear that i have the advantage,and lets make this interesting the tracks wet as much as i'd like to boast i'd kick his ass it would be a whitewash and i'd be lucky to finish with the car still intact from hitting the walls...lol... it all comes down to efficient use,Sony will have to prove it's not just numbers on paper

  27.3.2007 18:29 #9

• ZippyDSM

  scorpNZ
  yes new hardware has quricks but the 360 has showen what happens when a manufacture poorly tests it and donsent get the revisions done pre launch.
  
  The PS3 dose look good but I want reality to set in before I blow a grand on it.

  27.3.2007 18:39 #10

• janrocks

  Well now we will see how they sell.
  
  165,000 sold in the UK in 2 days, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6499841.stm but how many to gamers, and how many to greedy sell-em-on-ebay rip off artists I wonder.
  I know from fact that a whole heap have been bought on pre-order by small independent games shops for resale (we have 10.. yes 10) and are hoping to make good our break even pricing by selling the games..
  How many more like us? Probably a few thousand shops.. and another heap of fly by night merchants hoping that by making a shortage they can cash in on the "got to have it today" impatient kids.
  
  I think it's too expensive. I could build one hell of a pc for that kind of money.
  

  
  
  irc.OFTC.net #debian-women .. Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!
  The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

  27.3.2007 18:53 #11

• hade

  Quote:I think it's too expensive. I could build one hell of a pc for that kind of money.
  i'd love to see what kind of highend pc and its functionalities you could build for the same price as the ps3...

  28.3.2007 06:46 #12

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:[quote]I think it's too expensive. I could build one hell of a pc for that kind of money.
  i'd love to see what kind of highend pc and its functionalities you could build for the same price as the ps3...[/quote]
  
  
  
  in the UK the PS3 is about 900?
  
  lests see
  6600E C2D :290
  Motherboard :60
  DDR2 633? 2GB:200
  250GB HD SATA:80
  Case:70
  PSU 500wat :70
  SBA FX:99
  KB/mouse:30
  Total:899
  
  Now if you go with a ADM 939/AM2 X2 4800 or so you can take 150 of the price 1GB ramm another 100, and you are 100 from the US price.
  
  I might be using US prices but I am pretty sure used and wholesale prices are very close to my numbers.
  
  you can buy Branded PCs around that price or cheaper or use extra low brand parts to build it cheaper,if you have parts to out into it you can save even more by useing your own parts..
  
  
  

  
  
  FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
  

  28.3.2007 06:56 #13

• janrocks

  There is always some gobshite fanboy ain't there..
  
  Lets analise what a ps3 does..
  
  Plays ps3 games = toy
  blu-ray player.. Disks are too expensive, not interested
  Sony online whatever... myspace type thing.. not interested. I meet enough tossers on the internet as it is thanks.
  Runs antique 8 year old linux.. big deal, I run up to date linux as my OS.
  
  It also really needs a hi-def tv.. don't have one and not interested in getting one.. too expensive.
  
  as I said I think it's too expensive for what it does, a personal opinion.
  
  For that kind of money I could build a superb cluster super computer which would literally piss on anything you could imagine and which would do everything but play boring shoot-em ups.. I don't use computers for playing games. They are a tool for facilitating other things. Some of us have higher priorities for our limited resources.. like paying for a roof to live under and food and things.
  It is out of the reach of 80% of the uk population who just don't have this kind of disposable income for what is, in reality a toy.
  
  So go crawl back under your rock before I start getting really offensive.
  
  Hi zippy.. It really pigs me off when I'm being nice about something sony do for a change.
  
  Otherwise back to the topic.. I think sony will use the extra space on the disks for more and more copy protection. I don't think you will get any extra game for your money.
  

  
  
  irc.OFTC.net #debian-women .. Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!
  The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

  28.3.2007 07:27 #14

• ZippyDSM

  janrocks
  *drool*
  I'd hate to see you pissed ^_~
  
  

  
  
  FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
  

  28.3.2007 07:41 #15

• ChocTunda

  Originally posted by janrocks:There is always some gobshite fanboy ain't there..
  
  Lets analise what a ps3 does..
  
  Plays ps3 games = toy
  blu-ray player.. Disks are too expensive, not interested
  Sony online whatever... myspace type thing.. not interested. I meet enough tossers on the internet as it is thanks.
  Runs antique 8 year old linux.. big deal, I run up to date linux as my OS.
  
  It also really needs a hi-def tv.. don't have one and not interested in getting one.. too expensive.
  
  as I said I think it's too expensive for what it does, a personal opinion.
  
  For that kind of money I could build a superb cluster super computer which would literally piss on anything you could imagine and which would do everything but play boring shoot-em ups.. I don't use computers for playing games. They are a tool for facilitating other things. Some of us have higher priorities for our limited resources.. like paying for a roof to live under and food and things.
  It is out of the reach of 80% of the uk population who just don't have this kind of disposable income for what is, in reality a toy.
  
  So go crawl back under your rock before I start getting really offensive.
  
  Hi zippy.. It really pigs me off when I'm being nice about something sony do for a change.
  
  Otherwise back to the topic.. I think sony will use the extra space on the disks for more and more copy protection. I don't think you will get any extra game for your money.If one hundred dollar is the difference between one console being expensive & the other being affordable then maybe you should just keep your money in your pocket & not buy a console at all so we don't always got to hear you cry every time you post something about Sony.

  28.3.2007 07:47 #16

• lawndog

  wow aren't we a lil hostile in here? Yes xbox threw a punch a t ps3, but thats what companies do. And yes ps3 threw punches back at xbox. So those os yall wanting to jump on xboxs' back for doing so........shutup!
  What I find funny is, last month what console was the highest volume seller?? If I'm not mistaken I believe it was Nintendo Wii. (I may be wrong) Personally I think both the xbox and ps3 cost to much money. I'm a 27 year old male that plays my 1st gen xbox everyday! (Yes 1st gen. waited in line ast night) But to tell you the truth I'm thinking about getting the Wii. Yes price is a huge factor, but it's also the fact of being able to DL the old games. Please original Mario, Mario Cart, Contra (up,up, down,down, left,right, left, right, B,A,B,A select, start(Few people will get that))
  Anyway getting a little off topic, but the facts are both consoles I'm sure are good, but the pricing I think is to high. Me as a consumer, I don't care how much microsoft or sony loses per sale of a console. I care about the final dollar.
  Both companies are throw mud not just 1.
  I had more to say, but it's off topic so I'll stop before I get yelled at!
  LD

  28.3.2007 08:49 #17

• ZippyDSM

  ChocTunda
  But I bitch about all the systems,mostly ranting about their silly weakness's,while others pick a phallic image to worship and grope.
  Whining over me whining is a bit oximoronic,at least try and keep on topic god knows I do :P

  28.3.2007 09:04 #18

• davidneo

  In a year's time this war will be history. Eventually the PS3 will win it. It will have a vast selection of games, free online connections plus maybe a price cut (let's not forget that even Xbox's Elite $479 price tag aint cheap!)

  28.3.2007 09:12 #19

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by davidneo:In a year's time this war will be history. Eventually the PS3 will win it. It will have a vast selection of games, free online connections plus maybe a price cut (let's not forget that even Xbox's Elite $479 price tag aint cheap!)yes and no devs have jumped ship to the 360 and even the WII,also the time of 2nd and 3rd party exclusives has ended for the most part,plus MS has a huge following,their is no "winner" only one that has a larger share of the market,I have no doubt the PS3 will become greater in a year or 2,however I think this generation war will be a near 3 way tie.

  28.3.2007 09:22 #20

• davidneo

  Quote:Originally posted by davidneo:In a year's time this war will be history. Eventually the PS3 will win it. It will have a vast selection of games, free online connections plus maybe a price cut (let's not forget that even Xbox's Elite $479 price tag aint cheap!)yes and no devs have jumped ship to the 360 and even the WII,also the time of 2nd and 3rd party exclusives has ended for the most part,plus MS has a huge follow,their is no "winner" only one that has a larger share of the market,I have no doubt the PS3 will become greater in a year or 2,however I think this generation war will be a near 3 way tie.yeah i know but in gaming sony is a huge name. even at its launch in europe, there's been a huge wave of enthusiasm. i have nothing against xbox, infact i wish to own both systems. but the thing is this: the ps3 costs more.. but its packed with the best of technology. xbox360 is cheaper but it has relatively less power than the ps3. and now there are lot of games coming out for the ps3. anyway, hope the best wins!

  28.3.2007 09:29 #21

• ZippyDSM

  davidneo
  Sony is facing the potential let down Nintendo did in the 64/GC days,also the 165K numbers are mostly what was sold to vendors and not what was sold to consumers,I love thier number game *L*
  
  In any case this new gen of gaming has issues all over the place price(PS3) fail rate(360) antiquation(WII)
  
  the up shot is best technology (PS3) best content&online(360) and best innovation (WII) allot of ups allot of downs the future is still unclear.
  
  I really wish now that sony has rumble back they would make a dual motion pad like the WII has with that they would gain ground on innovation and power.

  28.3.2007 09:41 #22

• janrocks

  Well I had a go on the shop demo machine earlier..
  
  Not bad at all. Could do with a few more titles.. Tiger woods is OK, and carbon isn't bad.. I could do with some proper simulators really to see the potential of the hardware rather than re-hashed last gen titles..
  In the end it's going to be the games that decide this. They have only just stopped selling the ps1 here.. That must be the most successful console of all time. I know I like mine.
  
  As for crying wanker.. when you get a house and business of your own toys will pale into the background of priorities.. and for your information.. I haven't bought a console in 4 years, and I never ever buy the "latest thing" because I wait for all the ripoff merchants to exploit all the fanboy idiots, then I get something cheap and used (tried and tested) like the majority of sensible adults.
  
  When you have had children chockfu*8er or whatever your name is,you will understand, until then stfu and stay on topic.
  
  This thread is about whether the 50GB or so on a Blu-ray disk will lead to a better gaming experience, or just more garbage, FMV and junk which doesn't make a game any more enjoyable... a trend which has become more prevalent as the space on the media has increased..
  360 games.. some of them seem to be all films and cutscenes.. what happened to the gameplay? Some of the best games on the xbox and ps2 are also some of the smallest.. I know because I have backed up lots and lots of them. Some of the best will fit on a cd, so the wonder is why they put them on a dvd in the first place. Will this be the same this time round.. I have a feeling it will.
  
  The wii with it's outdated technology is worthy of mention in this context.. Tendo have stuck to the plan and made a games machine, not a multimedia centre attempt, and the price reflects that.. clever coding can get around the hardware shortcomings, just as in the last megadrive/genesis games when compared to the early ps1 games..
  It takes a while for the programmers to get a grip of the possibilities of new hardware.
  
  Anyway.. I have reported a few people for "fanboyitis"..
  Have a nice day..
  I hope you are feeling a bit better today zippy..all the best.
  

  
  
  irc.OFTC.net #debian-women .. Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!
  The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

  28.3.2007 10:11 #23

• ZippyDSM

  janrocks
  feel horrable ,allergy season has started up,been depressed got a half plastic and metal sword that was supposed to be wood and metal ah well whats 30$ *L*
  
  still havign some PC issues need to RMA my BFG oc 6800 again the mobo that died took out about 3 and I been putting off telling BFG this would be the 3rd or 4rth >> (never touching a abit again there NF2s are good most of the newer stuff is crap had nothing but trouble with the AV8)
  
  I been feelign so bad I have put off switch to the asrock 939 agp/PCIE board I got from a friend ><
  
  blah...I think I will get a pizza and cheer self up >>
  
  

  
  
  FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
  

  28.3.2007 10:38 #24

• hade

  TOPIC:
  in time people will see and realize the added benefits of having Blu-ray and its large storage capabilities. it has already contributed to faster load times, as developers who haven't fully utilized its capacity used the extra space to store redundant data. i doubt multi-plat games will use the extra space offered but im sure we'll see more and more first party titles utilizing the space. of course we would need some games released, but they are coming. i still like and have enjoyed several Blu-ray movies. can't wait for pirates of the caribbean to release, may is coming...
  
  ohhhh goodness. janrocks
  well i guess i hit a nerve with you for w/e reason as nothing i said was offensive. face the facts, YOU made your comment earlier and i simply called you on it. there was no need for your childish rants and there really wasn't too much fanboy flaming going on until your comments were made.
  
  Quote:For that kind of money I could build a superb cluster super computer which would literally piss on anything you could imagine and which would do everything but play boring shoot-em ups..now this is just getting to be too comical. so like i said before, i would still love to see what kind of high end or "one hell of a pc" you could build for the same price as the ps3. from my knowledge of computers and the market, i'd say it would cost roughly $1200+ for "one hell of a PC." i guess my definition for such a PC is not on the same page as yours. i mean "one hell of a PC" should really be just that, and Zippy im sorry but your layout for said pc is not fitting my criteria on the subject.
  
  Quote:There is always some gobshite fanboy ain't there..
  actually if you weren't so concerned about your edick we wouldn't have had this problem now would we?
  
  Quote:So go crawl back under your rock before I start getting really offensive.
  lmao, we surely wouldn't want that now would we? there are always firsts, and i must say this is the first time i have ever been called out online. let me tell you, you have me shaking in my moccasins...oh goodness what shall i do? if it makes you feel any better, i'll give you this one. hows that? lol, some people...
  
  Quote:When you have had children chockfu*8er or whatever your name is,you will understand, until then stfu and stay on topic.
  im amazed that one, you made it to senior member here, and two you have lasted this long. oh and your reporting people here? please don't make a bad rep for other members on here by creating double standards.
  
  Quote:
  As for crying wanker.. when you get a house and business of your own toys will pale into the background of priorities.. and for your information.. I haven't bought a console in 4 years, and I never ever buy the "latest thing" because I wait for all the ripoff merchants to exploit all the fanboy idiots, then I get something cheap and used (tried and tested) like the majority of sensible adults.
  given your priorities, if things are such "TOYS" to you and you haven't bought a console in YEARS, WHY in HELL are you getting so wrapped up in things. you speak about priorities, possibly you might want to rethink yours. its too bad you yourself don't act like a sensible ADULT on the forums.
  
  i think you have a lot of growing up and learning to do my friend. hopefully next time your mangina hurts, you're able to act in a more civilized manor. i gladly await any repercussions from all this ;)

  28.3.2007 12:28 #25

• ZippyDSM

  hade
  I am sorry you need to overcompensate so, but oh well
  you can build a 6600E core duo 2 on a 2000Mhz bus with 2GB of 800Mhz ramm for about a grand ,even a 2000$ PC will lag on some games because of the OS,its all with what you do with it I guess the PS3 is lacking now and wont be worth 400+ till they can show graphics are not everything.
  
  so excuse me I need to go clean my "opinion maker" its a wee bit leaky today :P
  

  
  
  FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
  

  28.3.2007 12:52 #26

• Nephilim

  ChocTunda,
  
  We have a zero tolerance policy towards flame starters like you and you just found out how much I like that policy.
  

  
  
  My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
  The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  "And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

  28.3.2007 14:15 #27

• Choc4ever

  Nephilim
  
  I ask that if you going to band someone look into the whole story not half because that policy clearly say no console bashing which your buddy Janrocks did.
  
  Quote:There is always some gobshite fanboy ain't thereThats a flame lets see more....
  
  Quote:So go crawl back under your rock before I start getting really offensive.Quote:When you have had children chockfu*8er or whatever your name is,you will understandHow did you over see this i don't know but seem like to me there is a buddy system on this site.
  
  Far as you Janrock because you have a house & kids don't mean that your mature which you are not as a parent talking to another you really need to grow up because i feel sorry for your Kids.

  28.3.2007 16:25 #28

• Nephilim

  Choc4ever,
  
  The rest has been already taken care of so you can stop whining about it. The "buddy sytem" you refer to is the fact that Jan's been here a long long time and helped countless folks and since I talk to her regularly via chat I discussed the situation with her almost immediately after seeing the thread. You also need to stop concerning yourself with what everyone else is doing and focus on the fact that nobody forced you to do what you did. The adult thing would've been to contact a mod about the situation instead of spouting off like you did and to further prove that you don't need to be around is the fact that even now you continue to take personal jabs at folks.
  

  
  
  My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
  The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
  "And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

  28.3.2007 18:24 #29

• janrocks

  Thanks Neph.. Now can we please get back to whether we think we will see an overall improvement in game content and quality with the arrival of all this new room on the disks. Or are we just going to get "more of the same"
  
  A lot of the DVD9 games on the 360 haven't exactly been stunning, too many cutscenes and still around the 30 hour limit for gameplay.
  Maybe developers assume that giving us decent value for money, and "play again" factor cuts into the release schedule, and reduces the number of total unit sales.
  I was rather upset with tomb raider legend on this point.. It seemed like only half a game, and once I finished it there was no real incentive to "play it again"
  Where have the features from games like Resident Evil gone? Second time through things are different, only save a few times and different things happen etc? A few secret areas which can only be found the third or fourth time through...What's so hard about that?
  I'd really like peoples thoughts on what makes a great game.. is it the total time of game play? (morrowind) Complexity.. (the sims, any world builders), or complete balls to the wall speed? like some of the burnouts...
  
  I'm sure we can compare the same games released on both platforms, and also similar but not the same titles that are exclusive to either without going off topic.
  

  
  
  irc.OFTC.net #debian-women .. Stuff Vista.. Stuff Micro$oft!!
  The revolution has happened.. Now we just need to TELL people!

  28.3.2007 18:43 #30

• ZippyDSM

  janrocks
  DEvs via demands from pubs wanting quick cash want simple cash in games made ASAP,it dosent get more simple than that and tis funny to watch the sheeple mindlessly eat it up and spend 2X the moeny on it at the same time...
  
  Old it might be but they are the sign of the time Doom 3 and Quake 4 show the evolution of gaming from DOOM to Quake to RTCW you see adventure class level design in D3 while the story might have greatly improved what happened to the core of game design small poorly thought out levels to suit graphics engine over keeping the player occupied with content in Q4 a advancement in "BLAND" level design look at Quake 2 with tis huge levels and item belt and tell me theres a advancement in gameplay here....
  
  On the Japaneses side of things it seems the more different/obscure/frustrating the more welcomed the core design is,look at the Final Fantasy's from 7 to 8 you get a odd system that leads to frustration and bordom,from 9 to 10 you get a very watered down combat system with a poor equipment system and now with 12 you get a odd MMO bastard child that cant really make up tis mind what it is and you still have a weak equipment system to go with a odd combat system,Dq8 is a nice RPG but thusly shallow in its gameplay (try playing it for 10 hours straight and watch character growth) its a ok game but tis missing something,altho a better example would be Casltvina small shallow and seemingly unable to evolve from LOI to the build normal weapons gimmick in COD then putting steal in yet not being able to use it effectively on flying monsters.....
  
  I could go on but I think most of you get the point games have hit a celling and with devs burning money on the graphic side of things they don't have time or money to spend on content much less "FUN" content they found that sweet spot holloywood did money=V=content its far easier to create stuff for the tween sheeple (12-20) and have them buy it twice than make something thats truly great and have everyone buy it once.
  
  I got lost on morrowind its almost to open,but one of the main things that got me was carry wight after acouple trys as a ranger I gave up playing because of it,the game is solid enough however stealing/collective AI needs to be looked at if you get cought your stuff should be impounded and you can buy them out or something,and the whole you steal/kill/lock pick and the world knows thing needs to be fixed it should work person runs to a guard a guard starts up a call to arms and that area is pissed at you and such.
  
  to me what makes a good game is a level of customizablity you can enhcnace stuff a bit you can carry some things however gameplay pretty much dose it for me if its fun to play I'll like it I been playing Blood Omen 2 lately god what a tank the gameplay sucks but the story is nice its also very lainer and limited in how he can navigate a level
  
  Fun gameplay
  Story
  customizablity
  A defined but non leiner path
  Another thing that can really open up a game is cheats,I am not talking about god mode thats the most boringest cheat ever,I am talking about removing some of the limits off the gameplay to make it less annoying and more fun
  
  Look at the code breaker codes for BO2
  inf rage,all dark gifts,mega jump,auto block,cutsceen skip(for the morons that thought sitting threw a cutsceen for the 10th time is cute theres a special place in hell for you,no matter how godly the cutsceen is),frankly I hesitate to buy a console that dose not have a cheat device simply because of the poor amount of effort placed into games I was pissed when I found out the Xbox dose not have a heat device after I got it,since some of the "off off brand" need all the help they can get to be fun.
  
  I really miss the hayday of emulation,emulation dose allot of things the consoles never want to do,graphics tweaks,save anywhere,full control over controls(button mapping) I find the "controls" given for most games to be limited and annoying I like configing a game to me not me trying to figure out a more often than not slopped together setup.
  
  
  AS far as BR goes it dose have speed issues but that will be dealt with in the 2nd or 3rd wave of games much like the 360 had issues they overcome them lil by lil,in the long run BR will only offer a game on 1 disc with DVD 9 might be on 2-4 in the long run this is nothing,int eh short run the system with DVD can sale twice as much as the one with a next gen drive in it.

  28.3.2007 21:18 #31

• spydah

  This is a comment the person that said 360 does not need to put a HD-Drive in because they don't want to add more to the price. Now lets place the facts out if they place that HD-DVD drive in the system peoples systems would die a lot faster and they would be really scrambling fix it. Their system just is not good enough to hold it inside clearly its bad enough it can not support whats in the regular Premium and Core version of the 360. They wanted to make it the way Sony did theres but it will not work right period.

  29.3.2007 05:11 #32

• ZippyDSM

  spydah
  the 360 cant hold a HDVD drive becuse it will make it overheat more and die faster?
  
  
  
  thats stupid......
  the drive unit it abotu the same size and heats abotu the same,even if it heated more a fan would fix that.
  
  again the main 2 reasons a HDVD will not be in the 360 is its not built around next gen video format like tis life is dpedning on it like the PS3,and the cost would greatly effect it.

  29.3.2007 08:04 #33

• hade

  true the inclusion of HD-DVD would greatly increase the overall price of the 360, but more importantly HD-DVD doesn't have the strong backing (studio support) that Blu-ray has. so really, what is the actual benefit of including HD-DVD as clearly the benefit doesn't quite outweigh the cost.
  
  then there could always be the debate about how much games would actually cost if they were introduced on HD-DVD. currently the 360 uses the ole dvd medium for their games and for w/e reason 360 titles cost around $10 more than their pc counterpart. how oblivion or call of duty cost $49.99 for the pc yet $59.99 for the 360 is simply a joke. developmental costs for the 360 surely can't be that high, i mean your roughly talking about a 20% increase in game prices.
  
  amazing that sony managed to lock in game prices for the ps3 at $59.99 as ps3 games are on BD. maybe that is another factor for old exclussive 3rd party titles going multi-plat.
  
  either way Blu-ray is a nice added features for consumers and developers. naturally to be able to see and enjoy such, one would have to utilize them.

  29.3.2007 20:38 #34

• ZippyDSM

  hade
  and all BR game are not 50-60 by default?
  you forget the indutry they are in much like hollow they feed the tween sheeple(12-20) they have to maximize profits by selling double to them I am surprised game prices have not gone up more.
  
  
  Long V short BR is pointless in the short run its laggy(games) costs more and the movies are as much as games and still only has a 50/50 change of wining the format war in the long,if the 360 didn't have as many issues as the factories it came from it might be a much better choice even with its overly high fail rate its a better choice in the short run simply for games it has.

  30.3.2007 03:05 #35

• hade

  Quote:and all BR game are not 50-60 by default?
  are you asking me or telling me?
  
  Quote:Long V short BR is pointless in the short run its laggy(games) costs more
  laggy games? costs more? again im not sure about "laggy games" but are you referring to costing more for the final consumer (me) or producer (devs)? if its the consumer, well i pay the same price for my ps3 titles as a 360 owner does. not costing me a cent more! im not really following you on this last post here, sorry bud

  30.3.2007 09:42 #36

• ZippyDSM

  Quote:[quote]and all BR game are not 50-60 by default?
  are you asking me or telling me?
  
  Quote:Long V short BR is pointless in the short run its laggy(games) costs more
  laggy games? costs more? again im not sure about "laggy games" but are you referring to costing more for the final consumer (me) or producer (devs)? if its the consumer, well i pay the same price for my ps3 titles as a 360 owner does. not costing me a cent more! im not really following you on this last post here, sorry bud[/quote]
  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
  Laggy in loading times sicne BR is a bit slower,it shouldnt hurt it in the long run data tricks and HS caching should clear that all up by the 3rd wave of games(you think Oblivtion runs bad on the 360,if they did not take the time to get it fixed on the PS3 it would load longer on it of coarse it is a PC game :P its goign to give any console a run for its money).
  
  the PS3 costs more on nearly all grounds makes up for it with more polish in the hardware and better High Def comapilty but tis still rough around the edges and the games for it are meek at beast shallow at worst,this to shall pass by late 08 or maybe min 09.
  
  I guess the markup on BR games did not happen instead they are balancing the cost to all games this can help allot of pubs stabilize moeny flow.
  
  =================
  I am going to cut and past I posted else were sicne I dotn have the tiem right now to write new
  =============
  BR is a bit slower in speed this is fact fanboys dont like to talk about,but HD caching will catch and disc data tricks will get better and you wont see as many issues with games loading.
  
  there are plenty of small nuances to the 360 and PS3 the PS3 dose HDMI/High def better because tis built around it the 360 is grandfathered in since its based more around normal definition but it makes up for it with a mature library polished online and faster loading times on "normal" games (despite what they say Oblivion is a PC game and any console its put on it going to have a time)
  the only down side to the 360 is the crappy fail rate
  
  
  the PS3 is a cumbersome for its all new but offers better polished hardware with rough edges a potential for the merging of PC like (up to date graphics/free online) with a console gaming and you get a nice High def movie player if you are willing to pay 23+ a BR video.
  the only down side the price is a bit steep and it lacks games.
  
  
  The 360 is the better game machine currently if it were not for MSs lack of balls in dealing with the bad launch hardware thats still plaguing it today I would back the 360 as the better next gen system but MS put so many lil holes in it tis like a SIV,the PS3 has 2 or 3 large holes neither float well.
  
  the WII is a hover boat its innovative and fun and sinks just as well as the others when you turn the fans off :X
  =================
  point is all the systems are leaky the PS3 needs more time and more polish put into it,if you have a High def setup might as well get it now and get it over with,the 360 erks me to no end they finally "fix" then put it off a year(least thats when the new premium revisions will be out) leaving the WII as something all gamers need to get :3
  

  
  
  FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
  

  31.3.2007 02:39 #37

• plazma247

  Is it not a little funny microsoft already has plans a new HD-DVD version of the console....
  
  also im sure the 360 was touted as a home entertainment hub which would give us a truly immersive interactive experience and here is the cheif of the uk saying they are only intrested in hd gaming.
  
  Umm is that back tracking or just chaging lane ?
  
  Im also rather shocked they say the HD tv market isnt there, well maybe not in the uk yet, but isnt that the plan the blueray player is designed to create a market and give sony a stonger position of HD-DVD. Everyone knows this and knows its cheaper to buy a ps/3 with blueray than a stand alone HD-DVD or blue ray player, i think people are happy with the higher price. If they werent would sony have shifted sooo many units since launch.
  
  If you ask me Neil was having a bad day...

  4.4.2007 01:44 #38

• ZippyDSM

  Originally posted by plazma247:Is it not a little funny microsoft already has plans a new HD-DVD version of the console....
  
  also im sure the 360 was touted as a home entertainment hub which would give us a truly immersive interactive experience and here is the cheif of the uk saying they are only intrested in hd gaming.
  
  Umm is that back tracking or just chaging lane ?
  
  Im also rather shocked they say the HD tv market isnt there, well maybe not in the uk yet, but isnt that the plan the blueray player is designed to create a market and give sony a stonger position of HD-DVD. Everyone knows this and knows its cheaper to buy a ps/3 with blueray than a stand alone HD-DVD or blue ray player, i think people are happy with the higher price. If they werent would sony have shifted sooo many units since launch.
  
  If you ask me Neil was having a bad day...well to me this is better than charging 700 for a system,releasing a new model every few years is not soo bad once you think about it,however the main downside to the 360 bad hardware they refuse to fix.

  4.4.2007 08:14 #39